Windows 11 May Not Run on Early Ryzen, Threadripper, Skylake-X, or Any Pre-2016 Intel PC

Krenum

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ARM is the future, baby! :D
Apparently. I have a couple of ARM based system, a Pi 4 and an Odroid N2+ both built to run emulators, I love em.

Its funny, a friend of mine about 10 years ago told me that ARM was the future, I didn't believe him, but here we are!
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Apparently. I have a couple of ARM based system, a Pi 4 and an Odroid N2+ both built to run emulators, I love em.

Its funny, a friend of mine about 10 years ago told me that ARM was the future, I didn't believe him, but here we are!

I have a few as well. I think they are great for little low power lightweight utility boxes, like streaming and stuff like that.

I'm not sure why you'd want Windows on them though.

Is there even a software catalog outside of Microsoft's built in apps?
 

Endgame

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ARM is the future, baby! :D
Well at least when compared to 10 year old Intel hardware. The pi 4 is surprisingly competitive with a 2500k at stock speed for a fraction power usage.

for cutting edge single thread performance, I’m not really seeing arm close much ground. For performance per watt, Arm is a serious contender.
 

cybereality

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I have one of those older Raspberry Pis.

I tried to run a WebGL 3D demo I was working on and it was so slow, like 10 fps.

But it did run. I was surprised about that.
 

Lakados

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Business outcomes - tie it straight to revenue, even COGS. Servers and apps deliver a business outcome. Cloud services do so to, and do so very easily. :p That's the problem - why run a DC when you don't need to? Folks do, sure - but lots don't. I sell enterprise IT for on-prem workloads, and even I can see that the majority of the future is cloud built. Too much overhead if you don't need on-prem.
Hybrid on my side. But yeah, for small and medium business it’s hard to argue against it.
 

Krenum

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Well at least when compared to 10 year old Intel hardware. The pi 4 is surprisingly competitive with a 2500k at stock speed for a fraction power usage.

for cutting edge single thread performance, I’m not really seeing arm close much ground. For performance per watt, Arm is a serious contender.
Just wait until Nvidia buys ARM, all that money for R&D, ARM is going to really take off in the next 5-10 years.
 

DukenukemX

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Uh, no. FTP is a protocol with put/pull, and that's... really it. Cloud storage, in the concepts being discussed here, has locking, sharing, multiple access points simultaneously, active access while stored remotely, remote execution, etc.
You ever setup an FTP before? You can setup multiple users to share only what you want them to see. Of course FTP is stored remotely though no remote execution. I don't know what locking is.
Show me how to have 15 people editing a excel file simultaneously with FTP - I'm curious - because that's a business outcome. Same for source code with git and github (which is a different variety of cloud storage).
I'm not even sure how that's done on cloud storage, unless that's a feature of excel and not the cloud itself. Keep in mind that you arguing these small details is just proving my point in that it's just someone else's computer. FTP is just one example, as there's also NAS.
They choose to make it optional. They can, and do, use it if you want to and it's present. Microsoft made a different choice. Not saying it's the right choice, but I understand the choice and what they're trying to accomplish (at least publicly).
Doesn't explain why TPM is needed and what it does.
And you know that FTP is not the same as cloud enabled filesystems or storage.
That's a lie and you know that.
Dropping support for older architectures for financial reasons is what places that are driven by revenue do. 5 year refresh cycle - Kaby Lake came out in 2016. No business revenue behind it, and consumer revenue is smaller than business (at least those who care - like us - who get their licenses far under MSRP).
Sounds like Microsoft being cheap is going to get very expensive for them.
See above. Same reason - separate processor with limited API interaction (at the hardware level) is more secure than a general purpose application that is queried, even at Ring 0, because a writable application can be corrupted - a read only (or limited access) device that just holds keys is more reliable. And no, I'm pointing out that the majority of users won't care, or notice a difference - because they ~won't~. There's a reason that key-exchange systems are still used today - and why most root CAs (the true roots, not the intermediates that provide signing responses) are run the way they are.
That's explaining what TPM is, not what TPM does for Windows 11.
Question - you might understand this better if you can answer this: What state is a Root CA kept at? (These are the root CA's that are listed in MSFT and Linux root Cert stores and distributed with the OSes or browsers (Firefox, for one, and I know Chrome was looking at their own root store)).
Offline? Kinda what Microsoft isn't doing with Windows 11 install.
Uh, no. Not quite. One is leveraged into business outcomes and drives revenue - the other is a tool. I sell enterprise IT. No one even thinks about FTP, outside of basic log offload/backup offload from small tools (see: VMware NSX-T offloading config backups to SFTP, other vmware tools, etc that do the same. Small text files. Also support uploads).
FTP is old and insecure so nobody would really use it for anything serious. Doesn't mean there aren't other similar tools that do the same. I use FTP as a point in that this Cloud Storage is very old.
But people pay literal millions of dollars for OneDrive, Google Drive, DropBox, etc.
Lots of idiots out there.
 
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Lakados

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I'm not even sure how that's done on cloud storage, unless that's a feature of excel and not the cloud itself. Keep in mind that you arguing these small details is just proving my point in that it's just someone else's computer. FTP is just one example, as there's also NAS.
It’s a feature of excel you can do that via simple SMB share too cloud has nothing to do with it. The process involves selective locks on tables, cells, or sheets as users interact with them. Though when synced back to office 365 it then does give extra options with auto save and revision tracking so you can do full file audits incase bad things happen, or depending on what functionality levels you can encrypt specific parts so say User A can edit anything, but B can only edit sheets 3-5 but user C only sees sheets 3 and 5 but they show up as sheets 1&2 to them and they don’t even know those other sheets exist.
 

cybereality

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I think we are getting in the weeds here. FTP is obviously an ancestor of cloud storage, of course there have been advancements in recent years.

But if you take something simple like the original DropBox, or even MegaUpload, no, it is basically an FTP server. You upload a file to a remote computer and download it from somewhere else. Not that different.
 

DPI

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Welp I have a Ryzen 1700x so no 11 for me. My motherboard does have a 20 pin header for a TPM module though. Will adding one let me install Window 11? If so can anyone recommend where to buy a reliable TPM 2.0 module?

Edit:

Got my answer. Also scalpers suck!
Honestly, the best "TPM 2.0 module" you can buy is a Ryzen 5950X, and I highly recommend going that route both to stay in Microsoft's good graces, and stay out of their crosshairs as Windows 11 slowly and inevitably becomes mandatory.

If anyone remembers the "upgrade-gate" of Windows 10 where they force-installed 10 over Windows 7 and 8 PC's without permission, in the middle of the night, even if you had updates disabled, well Microsoft could take that one step further with Windows 11 and just start wiping harddisks for any PC caught running *any OS* without TPM 2.0 capability - even Windows Enterprise SKU's, even Linux. Fuckem. Let's get stupid. And it sickens me the way I'd have to be with them 100% of the way. Gabe Newell's Athlon64 PC running Ubuntu? WIPE. Oprah Winfrey's iPad Mini? WIPE. Miley Cyrus' RING doorbell cam? WIPE.

So enforcing TPM 2.0 is like taking knives out of the hands of children, that aren't running with them yet, but might. Never know what kind of trouble they'll get into.
 
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Jinto

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It is probably a case of 'Apple is claiming they are the most secure OS, so we must have it too!'.

Actually looking at the UI again, I'll upgrade 'probably' to 'most likely'.
 

CaptNumbNutz

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This is ridiculous!





I can't even run it on my PC...

That is a whole other branch of Windows aka Windows on ARM (or in this specific case Windows on Raspberry Pi "WoR") which MS treats like it's only serious enough about it to keep investors happy they are developing "something" when Apple is going balls to the wall on their ARM architecture and their OS. About the only thing similar to regular x86 Windows is the user interface. There's little app support and it's track record has been a buggy disaster only recently fixing USB issues on Raspberry Pi's which happen to be the top single board computer in the world for a few years running. The security requirements on a Raspberry Pi or many other ARM systems is definitely not a primary concern for these when a large majority of them are run by hobbyists and educational institutions. The need for TPM in that case is wasting silicon and thus pointless for MS to require on such a trivial machine.

Honestly, if you are a Linux noob you could be infinitely more productive with a Pi 4 running Twister OS that's skinned to look exactly like Win10 rather than running WoR.
 

Red Falcon

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I think we are getting in the weeds here. FTP is obviously an ancestor of cloud storage, of course there have been advancements in recent years.

But if you take something simple like the original DropBox, or even MegaUpload, no, it is basically an FTP server. You upload a file to a remote computer and download it from somewhere else. Not that different.
I thought most cloud-based solutions used WebDAV for syncing stead of FTP or SFTP?
Different protocols, but doing the exact same thing in a slightly more efficient manner.
 

DukenukemX

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Honestly, the best "TPM 2.0 module" you can buy is a Ryzen 5950X, and I highly recommend going that route both to stay in Microsoft's good graces, and stay out of their crosshairs as Windows 11 slowly and inevitably becomes mandatory.
That makes sense... before the pandemic hit and the price of computer hardware got jacked up. Not that I would upgrade just for Windows 11 because I could ride Windows 10 for years before I need to upgrade and that's what most people are going to do. Microsoft turned Windows 10 into the next Windows XP.
If anyone remembers the "upgrade-gate" of Windows 10 where they force-installed 10 over Windows 7 and 8 PC's without permission, in the middle of the night, even if you had updates disabled, well Microsoft could take that one step further with Windows 11 and just start wiping harddisks for any PC caught running *any OS* without TPM 2.0 capability - even Windows Enterprise SKU's, even Linux. Fuckem. Let's get stupid. And it sickens me the way I'd have to be with them 100% of the way. Gabe Newell's Athlon64 PC running Ubuntu? WIPE. Oprah Winfrey's iPad Mini? WIPE. Miley Cyrus' RING doorbell cam? WIPE.
Is this a joke? I get wiping Windows 10 machines, though I can see lots of lawsuits with that one, but Linux and iOS devices? Microsoft ain't God.
Honestly, if you are a Linux noob you could be infinitely more productive with a Pi 4 running Twister OS that's skinned to look exactly like Win10 rather than running WoR.
I've successfully made Linux Mint installs look like Windows 10 with no backlash from the users. Fixed a laptop for my friend and he doesn't know it's Linux Mint 20. He just uses it to browse the web and play games off RetroArch.
Yeah. I'd like an explanation for this as well. I understand it can work with BitLocker, but really how many home users are using full-disk encryption? Seems like a business features that most users wouldn't even understand.
Full disk encryption is kinda tricky as it usually slows down your PC while also making data recovery more difficult. With most PC's using SSD's this might not be as much of a concern but god forbid grandma forgot her login password and can't get her family photos. Most users don't even have a password to log in their PC, because most users aren't using it for business. I don't even encrypt and password lock my Android phone because I want whoever finds my phone to use it because I can track it and even remote control it as a method to recover my phone. Plus I'm not stupid enough to store sensitive data on my phone that can be easily lost, broken, or stolen.

Even still, Microsoft could make disk encryption optional for the end user as its usually been for years. So why is TPM now required? I feel this is just Microsoft's idea of DRM as I'm sure Windows 11 is going to focus more on the store than anything else. Nobody uses the Microsoft Store, which is why Microsoft wants to merge all the stores into their store, which is not going to happen honestly. If Microsoft offers encryption as a method of DRM then I guess this is their way of trying to get apps sold on their store? I'm just speculating at this point but it's not like Microsoft is explaining why they require TPM. Secure Boot is kinda pointless and has been around forever but TPM?
 

Mazzspeed

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No one said ignorant or stupid - if it runs their programs, doesn't run stuff they don't want (especially malware), and does so at a decent rate and performance, mission done.
Problem is, Windows runs a plethora of stuff they don't want, with new variants being released weekly in the tens of thousands. The OS is far from perfect, with a 50/50 touch/desktop UI but not really excelling at either, a bloody horrible updating mechanism, and then there's Microsoft as a company that are trying harder and harder to lock users into things like 'non limited accounts' - Which is Microsoft manipulative lingo for Microsoft account.

Why would a company push you to use their free browser shipped with their OS based on the same platform as Chrome I wonder? Why can't I just say I want to keep using a 'limited account', as opposed to only being able to differ the system hogging blue window doing it's best to force me onto a Microsoft account for only three days?

Furthermore, just who's computer is it?
 

cybereality

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Furthermore, just who's computer is it?
1625123343016.png
 

nilepez

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Yeah, there's always someone that thinks the year of the Linux desktop is a rolling joke - The reality is the desktop OS market is disheveled and dying. I look at Windows 10 in it's current fat fingered iteration making poor use of screen real estate, I look at MacOS and the fact that with every release it's looking more like iOS, and I understand that the desktop OS as people know it is in it's death throws.

So harp on about the year of the Linux desktop all you like, pretty soon it just may be the only true desktop OS option available.
I've heard this argument for years. Reality is that if you use the classic Win 9X start menu (you know, the one that everyone on H was whined about 7 removing), it took more space once you had enough folders.

But I get your point. I can barely see anything when the start menu is open :rolleyes:
desktop.png
 

nilepez

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Is my AMD FX 8350 a joke to you? Actually I got two of them. They already run Linux.
Presumably they can run windows too. Is it 2025? Maybe you intend to use the same CPU until the day you die, but as of now, the average age of PCs, in the usa, are just over 4 years. Mine is 6 and the only reason I consider updating it is because of Intel bugs...and I've thought of doing that long before i knew there was a Windows 11 that may or may not support my CPU.
 

nilepez

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Windows will not control the market forever "just because". They haven't really been innovating and, like Intel, they could easily lose out to a competent competitor.

As we see, Chrome OS has already surpassed macOS for the quarter. Not exactly the desktop Linux we were hoping for, but is technically a Linux kernel.

View attachment 370672

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/202...-desktop-operating-system-isnt-macos-anymore/

Steam is coming to Chrome OS later this year in Q3, which could be huge.

https://chromeunboxed.com/borealis-a-k-a-steam-will-live-in-the-chrome-os-settings-menu/

That really is Windows last hold out for desktop enthusiasts. With Valve investing so much in Proton, improvements on Linux and also bringing to Chrome OS (and possibly the SteamPal handheld), well Windows days are numbered.

Yes, businesses will likely stay on Windows for Office and certain proprietary software, but honestly the ship is going down.

Personally wouldn't run Chrome OS as a daily driver, since I need development tools, but for many people that is enough to use the web and cloud-based web apps. And soon they can game as well.
Man if I had a dollar for every time someone said window was going down, I'd be richer than Elon Musk. Of course if each instance had to be from a unique person, I'd only be a multi-thousandaire.
 

DPI

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Is my AMD FX 8350 a joke to you? Actually I got two of them. They already run Linux.
Those FX 8350's are ready to be melted down into keychains. We can't have them on our secure Windows 11 TPM 2.0 network, threatening our new way of life. Even if they run Linux. Especially if they run LInux.

Two new 5950X's and start living life while you still have time.

1625126421747.png
 
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nilepez

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No, Linux isn't going to become as popular as Windows unless Microsoft shoot themselves in the head.

The only reason for the popularity of Windows is the fact it's on the device when you buy it, most actually hate it, they use it under duress.
Not as much as they'd hate Linux. Or did you forget when Dell and others tried selling *nix computers and users fucking hated it, because it wasn't Windows. My parents bought a power mac....it sits on a counter unused, because neither understand Mac OS and that's a hell of a lot more user friendly than Linux.

No I'm not, I deal with the public and their Windows issues - Believe me, they care. Contrary to right wing belief, 100% of the masses aren't stupid or ignorant.
You deal with a subset of people that have problems. Most people don't have major issues that require Mazzspeed's services.
For one, it means no manipulative tactics forcing people to online cloud based accounts. The other feature that defines a desktop OS is no forced touch UI element at all. The new Settings Panel taking place of the Control Panel, something Microsoft are relentlessly forcing on their users, is an example of a touch UI making poor use of screen real estate regarding desktop users.

There's also the implication that the uploading of personal metadata is in no way taking place on behalf of the OS itself, such features are strictly opt in only.
WTH are you talking about. The settings gui is generally better than CP. CP applets often cannot be resized and do not work well with high DPI displays. Settings does. I still recall all the WHINING about the new calculator size, but all you had to do was resize it. I have no idea what the touch elements are in Windows, because it all looks, feels and works like a desktop GUI.

You don't like it, that's fine, but comments like yours have been all too common on this board for over a decade (arguably 20 years). Every new windows OS, to certain H users, is worse than the last. I have no idea if I'll upgrade to 11 when it comes back (assuming my HW is supported), but I'm certain I will do it at some point and I'm fairly certain it will work much the same as the OS has worked since 7 (if not Vista) from a GUI perspective.
 

Gavv

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For one, it means no manipulative tactics forcing people to online cloud based accounts. The other feature that defines a desktop OS is no forced touch UI element at all. The new Settings Panel taking place of the Control Panel, something Microsoft are relentlessly forcing on their users, is an example of a touch UI making poor use of screen real estate regarding desktop users.

There's also the implication that the uploading of personal metadata is in no way taking place on behalf of the OS itself, such features are strictly opt in only.

Forcing people to online cloud based accounts is management of the OS. If doesn’t define the OS other than politics for or against it.

So you disagree with screen space usage? So how they choose to group things defines a desktop OS?

Sounds like you can’t distinguish between your personal pet peeves and what makes an OS in general.

What meta is collected is also political and has no bearing on OS functionality itself.

A true desktop OS does the things needed to do. Such as management of files, running applications, having support for x percent of hardware.

What you are labeling as characteristics of a true OS is nothing more than “I don’t like it” or “I don’t agree with how they do business” instead of true OS functionality.

That being said I don’t like the collection of data either. However that doesn’t define a desktop OS. It doesn’t define a Phone OS either. Both collect data. That’s well just business and things we don’t agree with from a company. Doesn’t define any OS.

If you came up and said the footprint of the desktop is 200 pixels wide and 300 pixels tall that affects functionality and use. Probably designed for something specific.

But all I heard was I don’t like it therefore it can’t be a true Desktop OS.
 

JSumrall

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The reality of it is, GNU/Linux is not the answer. I wish it was. But when users like my mom and dad, very smart people that once worked for NASA, struggle even with basic Windows/Internet concepts because they don't 'live the PC culture', there's no chance of them switching to something else.

But things really aren't being made for them, or even PC enthusiasts anymore. They're being made to attract the mainstream audience that is somewhere in the middle.

People want to access the content they want without having to worry about all of the under the hood stuff.

Will there always be enthusiasts that want more? Yes.

At some point though, we're going to have to accept the fact we're not the crowd being catered to by large corporations.
 

JSumrall

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What are you playing? Enable proton in steam, hit install, and go...? I'll give some of the ones you're struggling with a shot.
I got SWTOR to run through Steam using proton but it runs terrible.
 
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AceGoober

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My laptop meets the requirements to run Windows 11 but if launch is anything like Windows 10 then I'll wait until the bugs are worked out.
 

swetmore

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Because of this news, I was tempted to dispose of my 4790k... but then again, I do think ARM is really going to be the next big shift this decade... so I will sit on the fence and ride my current X86 lineup as they are for a few years to see how things shake out. No big hurry to shift to 11.. but will go to 11 on my main 9700k rig after a year or so (not in a hurry to be an early adopter either.. someone else can live with the bugs).
 

pendragon1

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My laptop meets the requirements to run Windows 11 but if launch is anything like Windows 10 then I'll wait until the bugs are worked out.
its still 10 just with a new face. runs the same, maybe a little more responsive.
 

lopoetve

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You ever setup an FTP before? You can setup multiple users to share only what you want them to see. Of course FTP is stored remotely though no remote execution. I don't know what locking is.
Absolutely. Now have 14 people editing the same file at the same time. As for locking - the ability for users to define that a file is locked (streaming updates to it) and making it RO automatically for other users (if needed), or preventing two people from editing the same thing at the same time (closer to a GIT merge type of scenario, but it's handled automatically on almost every cloud platform now).
I'm not even sure how that's done on cloud storage, unless that's a feature of excel and not the cloud itself. Keep in mind that you arguing these small details is just proving my point in that it's just someone else's computer. FTP is just one example, as there's also NAS.
Feature of OneDrive, and (to a limited level) dropbox. With Google tools, they're all tied to GoogleDrive which will do the same via their systems (and supposedly the desktop apps / excel / etc, I just haven't tried). Can't do that on NAS either - it's tied to the ODFB filesystem that OneDrive "layers" on top of the existing filesystem (supports FAT/NTFS/HFS/APFS).
Doesn't explain why TPM is needed and what it does.
Because you need a secure way to store keys. If you don't understand public-key cryptography, this will be a somewhat difficult discussion. A Fun read to learn it is Cryptonomicon, by Neal Stephenson - he covers a lot of it. Also writes a good thriller based around it too! Nazis! Gold! Weird japanese holdouts from WW2! Crypto!
That's a lie and you know that.
I just proved it isn't.
Sounds like Microsoft being cheap is going to get very expensive for them.
Of course they're being cheap. Their revenue stream doesn't really care.
That's explaining what TPM is, not what TPM does for Windows 11.
See prior statement and recommendation for Cryptonomicon.
Offline? Kinda what Microsoft isn't doing with Windows 11 install.
Offline, off net, and locked in a bloody steel box if you can. You ONLY access it when you need to revoke a cert (key) and issue a new one to the intermediate (software layer). TPM does the same thing, conceptually - it's offline and only used for secure storage of the root "key" (ish, simplifying) that is used to validate a binary is what it says it is. Because it's not stored locally or in an easily written to place, it's more secure than just software sitting on the OS drive. Root CA's never touch the network - properly done, you get a new cert with a USB stick and take it to an intermediate to distribute. TPM, only gets queried to read the key.
FTP is old and insecure so nobody would really use it for anything serious. Doesn't mean there aren't other similar tools that do the same. I use FTP as a point in that this Cloud Storage is very old.

Lots of idiots out there.
Cloud storage is an old concept - what it delivers is a ~new~ concept, or more appropriately, an old concept finally being realized. Shared simultaneous access is incredibly difficult - cloud storage layers remote access, file transfer, locking, version coordination and management, and simultaneous access at the same time. That's new. Containers are an old concept too - but we're just getting to the point that they're useful. Consumer use could be replaced by FTP. Enterprise use (where the money is), can't be.
 

1_rick

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Uh, no. FTP is a protocol with put/pull, and that's... really it. Cloud storage, in the concepts being discussed here, has locking, sharing, multiple access points simultaneously, active access while stored remotely, remote execution, etc. There's a drastic difference in terms of ~business outcome~, which is why cloud storage drives billions of dollars in revenue, and FTP is just a tool included in every OS. Doesn't matter as much for the home user, at least not the same way, but business activities cannot be simply replaced with FTP - saving a file remotely is different than collaboration tools. Show me how to have 15 people editing a excel file simultaneously with FTP - I'm curious - because that's a business outcome. Same for source code with git and github (which is a different variety of cloud storage).
To be fair, a ton of business is just automatic upload of a payroll report or updated customer list to an FTP site for processing, and doesn't need 15 people editing the file simultaneously.
 

lopoetve

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To be fair, a ton of business is just automatic upload of a payroll report or updated customer list to an FTP site for processing, and doesn't need 15 people editing the file simultaneously.
Certainly, which is why every OS under the sun has FTP built in now, at least in some form - it's about as ubiquitous as it comes. You can totally build things with business value around FTP - but the value comes from what you built around it, not a simple file transfer protocol. Just like whatever basic upload tool OneDrive has doesn't have that much value to begin with, but when you add all the other parts - now you have something that people pay for (O365).
 

Wat

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There is nothing new going on in computing. It is just giving old ideas a few tweaks and a trendy new name.
All the real innovation happened decades ago.

Maybe quantum computing is new, but no one has actually accomplished anything with it.

By this point in its evolution the UNIVAC was on the Jetsons. What are the cartoons of today doing with quantum computers??? Nuthin.
 

mvmiller12

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There is nothing new going on in computing. It is just giving old ideas a few tweaks and a trendy new name.
All the real innovation happened decades ago.

Maybe quantum computing is new, but no one has actually accomplished anything with it.

By this point in its evolution the UNIVAC was on the Jetsons. What are the cartoons of today doing with quantum computers??? Nuthin.

Wat u say??
 

DukenukemX

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The reality of it is, GNU/Linux is not the answer. I wish it was. But when users like my mom and dad, very smart people that once worked for NASA, struggle even with basic Windows/Internet concepts because they don't 'live the PC culture', there's no chance of them switching to something else.
If they're struggling to use Linux then they aren't as smart as you think. I have made many Linux Mint installs look just like Windows from the start button to the startup animation to the sound effects the computer makes when you use it. It has successfully fooled many family and friends to this day. What exact function of Windows does your parents need that Linux doesn't offer?
But things really aren't being made for them, or even PC enthusiasts anymore. They're being made to attract the mainstream audience that is somewhere in the middle.
Most of the stuff today is being made for them, it's just that Microsoft is trying to please people like us as well and you can't make everyone happy because we know the shit Microsoft pulls.
At some point though, we're going to have to accept the fact we're not the crowd being catered to by large corporations.
That's not the problem here. The issue is that Microsoft is pulling some stupid shit and they want us to fall in line. The difference between your parents and us is that we know Microsoft is fucking us. We know all the technical details of how they're fucking us.

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DukenukemX

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
6,536
Because you need a secure way to store keys. If you don't understand public-key cryptography, this will be a somewhat difficult discussion. A Fun read to learn it is Cryptonomicon, by Neal Stephenson - he covers a lot of it. Also writes a good thriller based around it too! Nazis! Gold! Weird japanese holdouts from WW2! Crypto!
For fucking what though? What exactly do we need encryption for?
Of course they're being cheap. Their revenue stream doesn't really care.
Wait until Windows 12 when they no longer require TPM. It's going to happen. There will be consequences to not having TPM but it will happen.
I got SWTOR to run through Steam using proton but it runs terrible.
What hardware and OS you using?
Because of this news, I was tempted to dispose of my 4790k... but then again, I do think ARM is really going to be the next big shift this decade... so I will sit on the fence and ride my current X86 lineup as they are for a few years to see how things shake out. No big hurry to shift to 11.. but will go to 11 on my main 9700k rig after a year or so (not in a hurry to be an early adopter either.. someone else can live with the bugs).
When you go ARM give me your 4790k. Will probably be more useful than any ARM device within the decade.
 
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