Windows 11 leak reveals new UI, Start menu, and more (UPDATE - added source for Windows 10 retirement date)

[defaultluser]

All this talk about TPM had me confused as hell as I did not even know what it was. It seems you do not need the actual module at all but just have to have the setting enabled in the BIOS. To be clear I dont have the module but have the header and I went into my BIOS and turned on the setting and now my pc meets the requirements where as before it did not when I ran the tool.

But those of us with TPM 1.2 still get "unsupported", even with both that and secure boot enabled.

We don't have any other insight on this shit until they start upgrading my "incompatible" Skylake machine for me (so don't mind me if I bitch about the only thing I can). MS eventually remitted on their restrictive DX11 requirement for Win10 (see all the HD 2000 machines now running), but right now we have no clue besides that clunky tool!

 

[Shoganai]

This is explicitly false, and you know it. The Apple Silicon features are a handful of nice-but-not-important additions.

Your response is explicitly false. I said nothing false. It’s Apple weeding out the Intel line in favor of M1 chips. “More detailed maps” is not something Intel chips can’t handle. Imagine paying 20-30 grand for a new 32-core Xeon Mac Pro with a mega high end exclusive-to-Mac-only AMD workstation GPU that can export 8k and render high end 3D projects like a dream, but it’s Intel, so it can’t handle “more detailed maps”. Please spare me the Apple apologist attitude. It literally helps no one. Most of the announced features not coming to Intel are not demanding features exclusive to the M1 chip. Apple just doesn’t want to bother coding them for Intel because they are pushing hard for M1. You defending this is worse than what Apple is doing.

 

[Domingo]

I had never bothered enabling TPM or SecureBoot before, but I turned 'em on for shits and gigs and the tool said I'm good to go...which I assumed I would be anyway.

 

[pendragon1]

But those of us with TPM 1.2 still get "unsupported", even with both that and secure boot enabled.

We don't have any other insight on this shit until they start upgrading my "incompatible" Skylake machine for me (so don't mind me if I bitch about the only thing I can). MS eventually remitted on their restrictive DX11 requirement for Win10 (see all the HD 2000 machines now running), but right now we have no clue besides that clunky tool!

the i5-6500 i just installed it on has tpm 1.2 and secure boot, its working fine.

I had never bothered enabling TPM or SecureBoot before, but I turned 'em on for shits and gigs and the tool said I'm good to go...which I assumed I would be anyway.

yeah you just have to turn them on, you dont actually have to use them though.

 

[jobert]

I'm still good to go even with secure boot off in the bios. When I went to turn secure boot on it told me I had to do something with some keys or something another and I know nothing about that so I just turned it right back off. The only thing I did was enable TPM even though I don't even have the module and then I was able to meet requirements according to the tool.

 

[jfreund]

No innovative new way or options to use your computer for work or play. UI is just more lipstick to what we have been doing for the last couple of decades. I would expect a 3d interface with 3d objects, options to visualize in VR with hand gestures, 3d rooms, customizable backgrounds or places. Placing your game stuff in a playroom, office for office work, artist room etc. to visually organize in a container type fashion wiping out the need for a start menu.

I think that was called MS Bob.

 

[pendragon1]

I'm still good to go even with secure boot off in the bios. When I went to turn secure boot on it told me I had to do something with some keys or something another and I know nothing about that so I just turned it right back off. The only thing I did was enable TPM even though I don't even have the module and then I was able to meet requirements according to the tool.

tpm might be in your chip.

 

[Camberwell]

which one? the x5-Z8500 atom chip is 64bit...

Well it turns out it has a Z3740, which is 64 bit, it just came pre-installed with a 32 bit version of Win 8 and I just did the upgrade to Win 10 without even checking - doh!

 

[jobert]

tpm might be in your chip.

I only have a header and do not actually have a physical TPM module. From what I understand there is software and hardware TPM. In fact it even says that in the options for my BIOS. I don't have any real understanding of all this stuff though as it's never even come up before.

 

[pendragon1]

Well it turns out it has a Z3740, which is 64 bit, it just came pre-installed with a 32 bit version of Win 8 and I just did the upgrade to Win 10 without even checking - doh!

lol. it might be totally fine then, if it has the tpm/secureboot it may or may not need, maybe...

 

[pendragon1]

I only have a header and do not actually have a physical TPM module. From what I understand there is software and hardware TPM. In fact it even says that in the options for my BIOS. I don't have any real understanding of all this stuff though as it's never even come up before.

yeah im catching up on it too, havent needed or used it until the newest dells at work arrived....

 

[Armenius]

View attachment 369073

 

[TangledThornz]

So it looks like I have till 2025 to wait on either building a new PC or just buying a high end laptop. I'm leaning towards the latter as I quit gaming early 2020 and my current rig is extra powerful enough for day to day non-gaming stuff.

 

[Camberwell]

So it looks like I have till 2025 to wait on either building a new PC or just buying a high end laptop. I'm leaning towards the latter as I quit gaming early 2020 and my current rig is extra powerful enough for day to day non-gaming stuff.

If your current rig is extra powerful even for non-gaming then you should be fine. My 2012 Atom powered tablet with a keyboard passes so....

 

[Ranulfo]

Via the LTT video:





Home edition will require internet and MS account to complete setup. Bets on how well that will be enforced?

 

[noko]

I think that was called MS Bob.

Don't think so, Bob was rather ridiculous and believe was 2d and not too interactive. Too bad MS did not further pursue different ways to enhance the UI. Windows 11 big UI improvement, rounded windows (I guess to make them look like cell phones, maybe should change name from Windows to Cellphones), frosted transparency (Windows 7 had something similar if I remember right) and an Apple centric theme. Anyways I could see an VR extension where you grab your camera object and the new taken images wrap around you, where you can grab them with your hand/gesture and move them to an editing program, folder or trashcan. Scan 3d objects and actually look at them in 3d, scale, stretch, categorize them. In other words a more effective means of interaction which could be more intuitive. Not to exclude the typical 2d interface.

 

[staknhalo]

View attachment 369286

I unironically like this

 

[D-EJ915]

Keep in mind this is Microsoft, the company that still tends to value legacy support above all else. It was likely terrified that some corporate users would drop Windows because they might have to upgrade a few 20-year-old servers.

I've seen some people use 32-bit as it still runs their 16-bit apps for old navy parts/ship manuals. I hope they're porting them to 64-bit lol.

 

[chithanh]

which one? the x5-Z8500 atom chip is 64bit...

Even the Bay Trail-based Intel Atom chips in the 2013 model are 64-bit. I think they just loaded it with 32-bit Windows since it only supports up to 4GB of RAM.

Well it turns out it has a Z3740, which is 64 bit, it just came pre-installed with a 32 bit version of Win 8 and I just did the upgrade to Win 10 without even checking - doh!

Unfortunately, a number of Bay Trail and Cherry Trail systems have 64-bit processors but come only with 32-bit UEFI. This prevents Windows 10 x64 from running. Maybe Microsoft removed that limitation for Windows 11, I don't know.

 

[Aurelius]

Your response is explicitly false. I said nothing false. It’s Apple weeding out the Intel line in favor of M1 chips. “More detailed maps” is not something Intel chips can’t handle. Imagine paying 20-30 grand for a new 32-core Xeon Mac Pro with a mega high end exclusive-to-Mac-only AMD workstation GPU that can export 8k and render high end 3D projects like a dream, but it’s Intel, so it can’t handle “more detailed maps”. Please spare me the Apple apologist attitude. It literally helps no one. Most of the announced features not coming to Intel are not demanding features exclusive to the M1 chip. Apple just doesn’t want to bother coding them for Intel because they are pushing hard for M1. You defending this is worse than what Apple is doing.

You said "99%" of new features in Monterey were exclusive to Apple Silicon Macs, and that's completely false. Please don't act like you're arguing against something else. I'm not trying to cheerlead for Apple here... I just want you to get some basic facts straight.

All major features, and most of the minor ones, are available on both platforms. It's something so obvious you can prove it with a quick glance at the OS preview page.

I agree that Apple could have implemented some or all of those Apple Silicon-only features on Intel Macs, and likely without much of a performance hit (not sure about efficiency). But that's not what I was talking about. Nearly all Monterey features will be available on both platforms, and they won't even be hamstrung. If Apple is trying to push people to new Macs by limiting macOS features, it's doing a pretty lousy job — the chip-exclusive tweaks are neither huge nor plentiful.

I'd add that your complaints are highly ironic when there's another thread where people are griping that Windows 11 won't run on PCs more than a few years old. Microsoft even clarified that the TPM requirement is as strict as people initially feared.

 

[Aurelius]

I've seen some people use 32-bit as it still runs their 16-bit apps for old navy parts/ship manuals. I hope they're porting them to 64-bit lol.

Yeah, that's the general problem! Legacy support is good up to a point, but some of those grousing about moving on are just hesitant to implement some long-overdue software upgrades. Like the ones who keep using Windows 7... to keep using XP mode... to run their NT 4.0-era database app from 1996. Microsoft may have retained a massive number of customers, but it has also taught a generation of corporate execs and IT admins to think they can run old software for all eternity. When Microsoft has to make a fundamental shift, it becomes that much more painful to move everyone forward.

 

[Bowman15]

I understand MS back tracked on the hard limit from TPM 1.2 to 2.0. Yeah, MS is going to reverse back on that one as well. Just give it time. Haswell cpu's are still very capable.

 

[ashmelev75]

Home edition will require internet and MS account to complete setup. Bets on how well that will be enforced?

If you're doing a clean install you just can't go past the screen that ask for account details.

 

[DukenukemX]

I agree that Apple could have implemented some or all of those Apple Silicon-only features on Intel Macs, and likely without much of a performance hit (not sure about efficiency). But that's not what I was talking about. Nearly all Monterey features will be available on both platforms, and they won't even be hamstrung. If Apple is trying to push people to new Macs by limiting macOS features, it's doing a pretty lousy job — the chip-exclusive tweaks are neither huge nor plentiful.

Apple did it for a reason, and it isn't a good one. Doesn't matter what reason it is, just pick one and that one isn't a good reason. Either to save money or to deter people to get Intel or both. Doesn't matter it's a shitty move by Apple

I'd add that your complaints are highly ironic when there's another thread where people are complaining that Windows 11 won't run on PCs more than a few years old. Microsoft even clarified that the TPM requirement is as strict as people initially feared.

I remember Microsoft forced users to have UEFI and that was going to be a problem for Linux. I know secure boot needs to be disabled to install Linux and TPM is kinda useless for Linux. None of this is going to make a PC more secure. This is just Microsoft making it harder to install Linux. Can't think of many other reasons. Is Microsoft going to encrypt apps from their app store? Who knows but right now idiots are scalping TPM modules and I don't think many people want to pay for an overpriced module to use an OS they probably hate or don't care for. Let alone buy a new PC during a time period where everything is overpriced. I probably won't benefit of any of the features of Windows 11 anyway since I'm using a 5 year old GPU that AMD isn't going to update the drivers to include such features.

 

[Aurelius]

Apple did it for a reason, and it isn't a good one. Doesn't matter what reason it is, just pick one and that one isn't a good reason. Either to save money or to deter people to get Intel or both. Doesn't matter it's a shitty move by Apple.

You don't have to like it, of course — I think it's just important to distinguish between a move made out of pragmatic development considerations (the likely real answer) versus pure malice (what Shoganai suggests). If this were a concerted effort to push people to upgrade early, Apple wouldn't be limiting the changes to a handful of "that's nice, but I don't really need it" features.

I also don't think Microsoft is intentionally making life more difficult for Linux users with Windows 11. Remember, Microsoft's largest revenue sources now are services, not Windows. It'd much rather have you running Microsoft 365 from Linux than Google Workspace in Windows. A Windows install is a one-time pop in revenue; M365, Azure and other services are money trains.

 

[Shoganai]

You said "99%" of new features in Monterey were exclusive to Apple Silicon Macs, and that's completely false. Please don't act like you're arguing against something else. I'm not trying to cheerlead for Apple here... I just want you to get some basic facts straight.

All major features, and most of the minor ones, are available on both platforms. It's something so obvious you can prove it with a quick glance at the OS preview page.

I agree that Apple could have implemented some or all of those Apple Silicon-only features on Intel Macs, and likely without much of a performance hit (not sure about efficiency). But that's not what I was talking about. Nearly all Monterey features will be available on both platforms, and they won't even be hamstrung. If Apple is trying to push people to new Macs by limiting macOS features, it's doing a pretty lousy job — the chip-exclusive tweaks are neither huge nor plentiful.

I'd add that your complaints are highly ironic when there's another thread where people are griping that Windows 11 won't run on PCs more than a few years old. Microsoft even clarified that the TPM requirement is as strict as people initially feared.

How is it ironic when I’ve torn into Microsoft for doing the same thing? How far up Apple’s rear have you ventured that what they’ve done here hasn’t bothered you? I’m a very long time Apple user for decades and watching the planned obsolescence continue to unfold has been infuriating over the years. They’re not even trying to hide it anyone. And again, you’re wrong. These are not ground-breaking M1-only features. They’re petty removals on Apple’s part for reasons that can’t possibly be debated because it’s just illogical. You nor anyone else should be okay with this behavior because it’s the being okay with it that allows companies like Apple and Microsoft to crap on their customers. Please tell me how detailed maps, a spinning globe, and portrait mode in FaceTime are only possible on M1 Macs. Portrait mode … I mean seriously … sideways webcam … not on Intel Macs. You can’t make this stuff up. I say 99% as an exaggeration because these are most of the highlighted features at the Apple event and most of them aren’t making it to Intel Macs … not because of CPU/GPU limitations but because Apple just felt like it. It’s an insul as an Apple user.

 

[ElementDave]

A Windows install is a one-time pop in revenue; M365, Azure and other services are money trains.

That may have once been the case. Now days, Windows is more of an integrated spyware/advertising platform designed to tie in with their other services, which is also why they're happy to give it away for "free".

 

[pendragon1]

How is it ironic when I’ve torn into Microsoft for doing the same thing? How far up Apple’s rear have you ventured ......

maybe go argue about apple in pm...

 

[ElementDave]

What is holding back ARM on Windows is the fact that Wintel is a juggernaut. First, Microsoft forced users to download apps through only their app store. They also didn't have any backwards compatibility as you stated. The real big issue is that most apps created are made for x86, and that's going to be a huge problem for ARM on Windows and ARM on Mac. Nobody in their right mind would buy an ARM based Windows laptop without realizing that most of their older x86 apps either won't run or will run slow. This is the reason why Apple going ARM is going to be a huge mistake. I guarantee you at some point Apple will release Intel based Macs in the future because the sales will slump. They already lost top spot in hardware sales. You wanna know why there isn't a year of Linux? Because Wintel is just too big to topple. Even Microsoft can't stop Wintel.

This wasn't addressed to me, but...

Speaking of Intel...

Not so long ago it was reported that Microsoft was developing its own ARM-based chips for use in its data centers:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...signing-its-own-chips-for-servers-surface-pcs
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/202...-developing-its-own-in-house-arm-cpu-designs/

Unfortunately I don't have any links to better or more recent sources. Do any of you have more recent information or links to such? I've fallen way behind with tech industry changes -- there's just too much garbage "news" these days.

Note that this is not about Windows PCs -- at least not in the immediate future, but it doesn't look good for Intel as more servers move to ARM.

 

[Shoganai]

maybe go argue about apple in pm...

It was relevant because this is very Apple-like behavior that Microsoft is copying. Microsoft has always been about backwards compatibility for things decades old. Microsoft seems to be following Apple’s playbook and even NVIDIA is going to stop making GPU drivers for any computer that isn’t on Windows 10 or newer.

 

[pendragon1]

It was relevant because this is very Apple-like behavior that Microsoft is copying. Microsoft has always been about backwards compatibility for things decades old. Microsoft seems to be following Apple’s playbook and even NVIDIA is going to stop making GPU drivers for any computer that isn’t on Windows 10 or newer.

is it really though?!

 

[Shoganai]

is it really though?!

It was a talking point that devolved into something else. But I thought this was a discussion board, no? Is discussion bad now? And yes I truly think it’s relevant as Apple has famously arbitrarily cut off a whole lineup of their computers every new OS update and there’s a similarity with what’s happening here. I’m sorry that comparison has offended your sensibilities.

 

[Aurelius]

How is it ironic when I’ve torn into Microsoft for doing the same thing? How far up Apple’s rear have you ventured that what they’ve done here hasn’t bothered you? I’m a very long time Apple user for decades and watching the planned obsolescence continue to unfold has been infuriating over the years. They’re not even trying to hide it anyone. And again, you’re wrong. These are not ground-breaking M1-only features. They’re petty removals on Apple’s part for reasons that can’t possibly be debated because it’s just illogical. You nor anyone else should be okay with this behavior because it’s the being okay with it that allows companies like Apple and Microsoft to crap on their customers. Please tell me how detailed maps, a spinning globe, and portrait mode in FaceTime are only possible on M1 Macs. Portrait mode … I mean seriously … sideways webcam … not on Intel Macs. You can’t make this stuff up. I say 99% as an exaggeration because these are most of the highlighted features at the Apple event and most of them aren’t making it to Intel Macs … not because of CPU/GPU limitations but because Apple just felt like it. It’s an insul as an Apple user.

Again, you're arguing against what you want me to be, what I actually am.

I'm not a big fan of Apple's decision. I think the feature split is somewhat arbitrary and also a bit early given that Apple Silicon Macs haven't even been around for a year. But I also don't think it's worth bursting an artery in rage, either. They're only a few features, minor ones at that, and there's no evidence to suggest Apple chose them primarily to spite Intel Mac owners.

The irony comes from your disproportionate reaction. You're boiling with rage over this while Microsoft is doing something considerably worse in comparison. I don't know about you, but I'd be much more upset about a five-year-old PC being unable to run Windows 11 at all than I would be about a Mac user having to wait a couple of years before they get portrait mode in FaceTime chats.

 

[Shoganai]

Again, you're arguing against what you want me to be, what I actually am.

I'm not a big fan of Apple's decision. I think the feature split is somewhat arbitrary and also a bit early given that Apple Silicon Macs haven't even been around for a year. But I also don't think it's worth bursting an artery in rage, either. They're only a few features, minor ones at that, and there's no evidence to suggest Apple chose them primarily to spite Intel Mac owners.

The irony comes from your disproportionate reaction. You're boiling with rage over this while Microsoft is doing something considerably worse in comparison. I don't know about you, but I'd be much more upset about a five-year-old PC being unable to run Windows 11 at all than I would be about a Mac user having to wait a couple of years before they get portrait mode in FaceTime chats.

You're arguing against what you want me to be, what I actually am.

If you're doing a clean install you just can't go past the screen that ask for account details.

I guess we'll have to confirm this when it's released. If you can't create a localized account with no internet enabled that will be pretty messed up. Eager to try the beta when they release it for the Insider program next week.

 

[Aurelius]

You're arguing against what you want me to be, what I actually am.

Care to elaborate? I don't think anyone here would dispute that you've been fuming over Apple's feature checklist. And "I know what you are, but what am I?" worked in first grade... but you need to try harder as an adult.

 

[Shoganai]

Care to elaborate? I don't think anyone here would dispute that you've been fuming over Apple's feature checklist. And "I know what you are, but what am I?" worked in first grade... but you need to try harder as an adult.

I wasn't fuming at the mouth. Been using Macs for decades. Been a big Apple fan for a long time. I have every right as a consumer to be pissed at a company's anti-consumer practices in a discussion forum literally designed for this very thing. It doesn't matter how small these issues may seem to you, they are still issues, and I have every right to disagree with them. Just because you think people are silly for reacting to them in a way that you don't doesn't make them wrong. Just because you aren't getting as upset at something that others are doesn't make you a better human being. It just makes you different. And that's fine. Everyone is entitled to their feelings and thoughts based on their personal experiences dealing with technology. I'm upset with the path Apple is taking. Many people are. I have an opinion you don't agree with. You keep calling me a child while you continue to post childishly. Microsoft now seems to be following that same path by arbitrarily eliminating a wide range of computers with these new minimum requirements. It's going to be a doozy to work with my customer base on this issue and either find a way around it or have them upgrade to new hardware. But I guess it's job security and I should be thankful. If you don't like my posts, don't respond to them. I won't be responding to any of yours so you needn't worry. Good day.

 

[ElementDave]

Microsoft Bob was the stripped down software. It was meant to make computers accessible to absolute newcomers by translating them to pre-computer metaphors. Think of it like taking skeuomorphism (where digital objects mimic their real-life equivalents) to its logical extreme.

The life and death of Microsoft Bob is mostly a mystery. A few facts from my recollection of the media reports:

Bob was born in Redmond Washington. He suffered from obsessive-compulsive disorder and was known to experience panic attacks around punched-hole cards, Fortran, magnets, IBM keyboards, paperclips, Apples, and anything POSIX.

Bob was found dead in his one-bedroom 3.5" high-density floppy diskette just two days after the announcement of a new "improved" Office Assistant. The official cause of death was suicide, but some suspected murder. Unfortunately, his home was reformatted the week following his death, making it impossible to conduct a thorough investigation. Conspiracy?

A paperclip was found beside his home at the time of his reported death. It had been magnetized.

The night preceding his death, neighbors overheard Bob arguing about the layout of the new TPS report template for Office.

Bob's funeral was closed-source. No one attended.

Last seen with Bob:

It looks like you're writing a TPS report. 📎 Would you like help? 🔵 Get help with with writing the report.​ ​ 🔵 Just type the report without help.​ ​ ☑️ Violently smash PC with hammer.​

 

[MrGuvernment]

https://oofhours.com/

 

[nilepez]

View attachment 368379

So Microsoft is making the most money from their cloud services. More than Office, more than Windows, and more than Xbox.

And since their cloud primarily runs on Linux, they make more money from Linux than they do Windows. Let that sink in.

I'm not sure that this is a surprise. Xbox has never been a big money maker. Windows is free for pretty much everyone that isn't buying a new PC. Office has always been a cash cow and Cloud is where the money is. I'm pretty sure that's where most of Amazon's profits come from as well.

 

[nilepez]

I wish that we could get all of the various linux shells ported to windows. I hate all the modern flat ui designs and Ill hate the windows 11 ui even more.
What I hate even more than that is settings getting moved to obscure places or burried.

Thinking about picking up a cheap video card and setting up a vm with passthrough to flip back and forth between linux and windows.

I just use search. Maybe there's some obscure settings that search doesn't find, but for the most part, it just works. Hell, it even learns whether I want to use the settings version or the Control Panel version (though I would hope CP is going away with 11).