Windows 11 available on October 5

GiGaBiTe said:
What new features lol?
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Having stuff added like windows sandbox, ubuntu running natively on windows to have bash running, winget, vcpkg, etc... would be a net adding of feature even if solitaire and movie maker were removed (not sure if fully serious), I still have paint in my recent install of windows 10.
 
cybereality said:
Maybe that is progress though. Does anyone actually play Minesweeper today? Give me a break.
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Funny story.

I was playing around with getting Windows 3.11 working in DosBox the other day, which I successfully did, and just for shits and giggles I fired up Minesweeper, and got sucked in for over an hour :p


krnl386_001.png
 
LukeTbk said:
Having stuff added like windows sandbox, ubuntu running natively on windows to have bash running, winget, vcpkg, etc... would be a net adding of feature even if solitaire and movie maker were removed (not sure if fully serious), I still have paint in my recent install of windows 10.
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Why would I want to run Linux under Windows. That's bass ackwards.

If anything you'd want Linux to be bare metal, running windows instances on it as needed.
 
GiGaBiTe said:
What new features lol?

Since the beginning of Windows 10, Microsoft has been steadily removing features from the OS and calling it progress. Like games that have been around since almost the dawn of Windows (minesweeper, solitaire, etc.) were stripped and replaced with adware filled crap. Paint was removed, movie maker was removed, WINDOWS BACKUP was removed. With 20H2, the system properties page was removed and replaced with a massive waste of space window you have to scroll double the length of to get the information that used to be efficiently laid out and easy to see. The control panel is steadily being stripped away and replaced with a horrible metro clone where nothing is organized and hidden within pages and pages of irrelevant settings.

Windows 10/11 is an exercise in Microsoft seeing how much crap they can get away with without alienating their user base to the point where they jump ship and never look back.
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Could you imagine if Microsoft made a car??! 🙃
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Why would I want to run Linux under Windows. That's bass ackwards.
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I am not sure what product you make with your computer, but an obvious example if to quick test if it run on Linux.

The big list of tools that run on bash-dpkg, etc... is nice to have, maybe it is not to any use to your workload, but it is still an example of a new feature.

Edit: if you are developer you probably already did it via third party tools like git-bash, Cygwin, if you are not a someone that do product for other to use, there is little chance to care
 
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I'll upgrade to this only when I have to. For the first time on my personal PC a Windows and/or Office 365 update broke things that worked just fine before the update.

I don't trust Microsoft's internal testing for their OSes anymore.

Also if you like minesweeper check out Globesweeper on Steam.
 
LukeTbk said:
Having stuff added like windows sandbox, ubuntu running natively on windows to have bash running, winget, vcpkg, etc... would be a net adding of feature even if solitaire and movie maker were removed (not sure if fully serious), I still have paint in my recent install of windows 10.
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Windows Sandbox is 100% useless. It has already had multiple exploits that allow sandboxed applications to escape to the host and have full control of the system. It's no real surprise though, just another shitty product from MS that has a decades long track record of releasing broken bug and exploit ridden software. It'd be like trusting IIS to your company website and not be compromised after an hour of it being online. There's a reason people use Apache and NGINX. Not to say they are perfect, but at least the source is available and can be easily patched when bad things are found.

Ubuntu and Linux in general have no business in the Windows ecosystem. Microsoft has had this whole dog and pony show about suddenly having a change of heart and open source is good and they want to help too. Nope, keep them away from Linux, it's just their age old tactic of embrace, extend, extinguish. It wasn't that long ago they were calling Linux and OSS the bane of their existence and a plague that needs to be wiped from the face of the earth. The only reason they're "adopting" Linux is because Linux has destroyed them in virtually every market. Servers? Linux. Mobile? Linux. Desktop? Unix via Apple.

Microsoft is so out of touch with reality and ignoring their dwindling consumer base that they're literally throwing crap at the wall and seeing if it will stick.

cpufrost said:
Could you imagine if Microsoft made a car??! 🙃
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I'd probably look like Howl's moving castle, no offense to Hayao Miyazaki intended.
 
GiGaBiTe said:
Windows Sandbox is 100% useless. It has already had multiple exploits that allow sandboxed applications to escape to the host and have full control of the system. It's no real surprise though, just another shitty product from MS that has a decades long track record of releasing broken bug and exploit ridden software. It'd be like trusting IIS to your company website and not be compromised after an hour of it being online. There's a reason people use Apache and NGINX. Not to say they are perfect, but at least the source is available and can be easily patched when bad things are found.
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That does not make it 100% useless, you make a product and want to rapidly test is first run after an install (or any build or it process started from scratch), I rarely used Sandbox or other VM for added security reason. Or someone with a low security need OS wise that want to just connect to is remote job from a fully different session than is personnel one easily, I would not imagine the target was ever a high security need audience.

GiGaBiTe said:
It wasn't that long ago they were calling Linux and OSS the bane of their existence and a plague that needs to be wiped from the face of the earth.
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Called ? That sound like a strange thing to say (and just strange language) for a major company, but it must start to be a long time, Microsoft has been massively using Linux in is ecosystem for more than 5 year's now. I am not sure what your comments has to do with Windows 10 new feature of native Bash and other Linux feature.


GiGaBiTe said:
Microsoft is so out of touch with reality and ignoring their dwindling consumer base that they're literally throwing crap at the wall and seeing if it will stick.
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?
https://www.statista.com/statistics/267805/microsofts-global-revenue-since-2002/

Microsoft revenues almost doubled in just the last 5 year's....
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
...which means Microsoft is completely incompetent at software development.
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What will disturb you more is that "incompetent" describes almost every single industry today that is trusted to be staffed by professionals.

True professionals with all the ethics, morals, and drive to actually be professional are incredibly rare. With software it's even worse... the number of times I've seen a billion+ dollar company release software a college kid could do better on a drunken bender is astronomical. It's also never fixed. They polish that turd until people stop complaining and then it's done. All the core issues with it being poorly developed remain.

I'm personally just angry about windows 11. They bloody sold 10 as a one-step-and-done solution. We knew it was BS but it still stuck. Especially when scientific software generally doesn't respond well to OS changes.
 
cybereality said:
Ironically not because of Windows. Most of their recent growth has been on their cloud solutions, which run on Linux.

https://news.microsoft.com/2021/07/27/microsoft-cloud-strength-fuels-fourth-quarter-results-2/
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People forget this — Microsoft shifted more of its focus to cloud services years ago, including stronger support for Linux. One of the things I will always appreciate Satya Nadella for, no matter how well he does otherwise, is his acknowledgment that Windows was no longer the center of the tech universe.
 
Windows 69 is will combine Linux and windows into one large package.
 
LukeTbk said:
I am not sure what product you make with your computer, but an obvious example if to quick test if it run on Linux.

The big list of tools that run on bash-dpkg, etc... is nice to have, maybe it is not to any use to your workload, but it is still an example of a new feature.
Click to expand...

Code: 
# dpkg --purge windows-11-amd64
?
 
I just checked, I still have Paint in Windows 11. It's been really painless after I remembered to turn on TPM- I've been slow ring testing forever and picked up Win11 the next day. Took less than an hour to upgrade (didn't time, was working), and I haven't found any issues worth getting bothered over. Even the centered taskbar and menu isn't a big deal (and you can sift it to the left), but I did put in a request to be able to move it to the left or right...
 
I just spun up a Windows 10 VM in virtualbox using a spare key I had. Hopefully I can force the update and then I can play with it in viritual for as long as I want before I move my main rig or laptops to it.
 
LukeTbk said:
Called ? That sound like a strange thing to say (and just strange language) for a major company, but it must start to be a long time, Microsoft has been massively using Linux in is ecosystem for more than 5 year's now. I am not sure what your comments has to do with Windows 10 new feature of native Bash and other Linux feature.
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You might be too young to remember, but especially in the early 2000s there was a lot of friction between Microsoft and the open-source world. That resulted in the use of some memorable language by Gates and Ballmer to describe Linux and more generally, open-source software. I'm pretty sure that's what GiGaBiTe was referring to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_and_open_source#Initial_stance_on_open_source
 
HockeyJon said:
Someone needs to justify their job to their manager. The result is completely needless UI changes that no one wants or asked for. Remember when Microsoft decided everyone wanted to go touch and ditch the start menu with Windows 8, only to see Classic Shell dominate their App Store before they finally admitted failure?
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The problem is that design trends change over time and people DO want aesthetics to change with the times. That's why people continue to buy new clothes every season. Things get stale for most people and they do want change. From my experience in the IT world, most do not care about fashion and most do not like design changes. Form over function for most in 'our' group. That's just not the case with the rest of the world.

I have no problem with the changes but I am also no longer work in a support role. To be honest, I love the new design language.
 
ElementDave said:
You might be too young to remember, but especially in the early 2000s there was a lot of friction between Microsoft and the open-source world. That resulted in the use of some memorable language by Gates and Ballmer to describe Linux and more generally, open-source software. I'm pretty sure that's what GiGaBiTe was referring to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_and_open_source#Initial_stance_on_open_source
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It's wild to think there are now adults who don't remember the bad old days of Ballmer. He nearly torpedoed Microsoft through his obsession with protecting the Windows cash cow at all costs. The tech industry ultimately benefited thanks to the rises of Apple and Google, but Ballmer's strategy is the textbook example of an unforced error.
 
Aurelius said:
It's wild to think there are now adults who don't remember the bad old days of Ballmer. He nearly torpedoed Microsoft through his obsession with protecting the Windows cash cow at all costs. The tech industry ultimately benefited thanks to the rises of Apple and Google, but Ballmer's strategy is the textbook example of an unforced error.
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Aurelius said:
It's wild to think there are now adults who don't remember the bad old days of Ballmer. He nearly torpedoed Microsoft through his obsession with protecting the Windows cash cow at all costs. The tech industry ultimately benefited thanks to the rises of Apple and Google, but Ballmer's strategy is the textbook example of an unforced error.
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Fortunately, he is gone, and we are all better for it. Nadella knew early on that the cloud and net-enabled applications were going to be where business and the world went and was smart enough to get on board early and knew for it to work it couldn't be tied to Windows because the internet runs on Linux.
 
OFaceSIG said:
I just spun up a Windows 10 VM in virtualbox using a spare key I had. Hopefully I can force the update and then I can play with it in viritual for as long as I want before I move my main rig or laptops to it.
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dont base your first impression on a vm, it supposedly runs like crap compared to a real install.
 
thelead said:
The problem is that design trends change over time and people DO want aesthetics to change with the times. That's why people continue to buy new clothes every season. Things get stale for most people and they do want change. From my experience in the IT world, most do not care about fashion and most do not like design changes. Form over function for most in 'our' group. That's just not the case with the rest of the world.

I have no problem with the changes but I am also no longer work in a support role. To be honest, I love the new design language.
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New clothes every season?? I only buy new clothes when something wears out. It's been bluejeans and tee shirts since I was a kid (I'm 68). Luckily, every place I worked had no dress code so bluejeans and tee shirts were fine.
 
sadsteve said:
New clothes every season?? I only buy new clothes when something wears out. It's been bluejeans and tee shirts since I was a kid (I'm 68). Luckily, every place I worked had no dress code so bluejeans and tee shirts were fine.
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Same. If something doesn't look worn out or have holes, and still fits, I keep wearing it, regardless of how old is its or how much the styles have changed.

In fact, the longer something lasts the better!

Usually I get annoyed when going to the store hoping to find the same thing I had before, and instead all the colors and styles have changed, and rather than just getting a like for like replacement that works for me, I have to spend time and effort looking for something else I can live with.

I have enough things I have to spend time, effort and thought on in my life. I would very much prefer if clothing didn't have to be one of them. If I could buy the exact same thing in the exact same location in the exact same store decade in and decade out I would because it is just something I don't want to have to waste time on.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Same. If something doesn't look worn out or have holes, and still fits, I keep wearing it, regardless of how old is its or how much the styles have changed.

In fact, the longer something lasts the better!

Usually I get annoyed when going to the store hoping to find the same thing I had before, and instead all the colors and styles have changed, and rather than just getting a like for like replacement that works for me, I have to spend time and effort looking for something else I can live with.

I have enough things I have to spend time, effort and thought on in my life. I would very much prefer if clothing didn't have to be one of them. If I could buy the exact same thing in the exact same location in the exact same store decade in and decade out I would because it is just something I don't want to have to waste time on.
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i can understand all that. i was pissed when i couldnt buy my 5th pair of the same shoes or jeans. but this is an os that has to adapter for millions of users. its going to evolve.
 
sadsteve said:
New clothes every season?? I only buy new clothes when something wears out. It's been bluejeans and tee shirts since I was a kid (I'm 68). Luckily, every place I worked had no dress code so bluejeans and tee shirts were fine.
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Proving my point exactly lol

I'm not saying you're wrong... just pointing out that this forum is an outlier from typical trends and consumption.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Same. If something doesn't look worn out or have holes, and still fits, I keep wearing it, regardless of how old is its or how much the styles have changed.

In fact, the longer something lasts the better!

Usually I get annoyed when going to the store hoping to find the same thing I had before, and instead all the colors and styles have changed, and rather than just getting a like for like replacement that works for me, I have to spend time and effort looking for something else I can live with.

I have enough things I have to spend time, effort and thought on in my life. I would very much prefer if clothing didn't have to be one of them. If I could buy the exact same thing in the exact same location in the exact same store decade in and decade out I would because it is just something I don't want to have to waste time on.
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:oldman: :D
 
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