Windows 10's next major update for 2021 codenamed Iron (Fe) 1-c

ManofGod

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Haha, had to laugh, yeah me too on that one.

Microsoft has had this shotgun approach since win7, throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. The result is a lot of unsuccessful products and a confused operating system that does not really know which way it's going.

Big problem for Microsoft is a really awful public image. They're one of the most predatory companies and have got to where they are mostly though unscrupulous practices. For example Bill Gates flat out stole the mouse and keyboard invention from Zerox and based Windows on it.

Most people are at best indifferent to Microsoft. Other people flat out avoid anything associated with Microsoft. So when they try to monopolize on some great new idea, it almost never takes off because of their bad name. They've had some successes obviously, but it's usually achieved by undermining the competition.

Yeah, I would love to see someone give multiple reasons why they use Linux that has nothing to do with MAC OS or Windows. :) I use anything there is simply because I want too but, I usually focus my main attention on Windows, just because. However, I do with OS/2 and before that, the Amiga has been successful.
 

CraigHB

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Yeah OS/2 was a really great competitor to Windows. Really saddened me that IBM gave up on it. IBM is a six hundred pound gorilla itself, but better something than nothing. I can't believe that Goliath laid down for puny Microsoft (was puny in comparison at the time).

If we still had IBM behind OS/2 today we probably would be having a completely different conversation like, "remember that upstart Microsoft, whatever happened to them." But much to our dismay IBM simply did not want to stay in the personal computer OS business. If they wanted to, they would have. Where does a six hundred pound gorilla go, anywhere it wants to.
 

polonyc2

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I like the codename- Iron...so the next big update isn't coming out until 2021?...I thought they released 2 major updates a year?...it's actually good news if they slow it down to 1 a year
 

ManofGod

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Yeah OS/2 was a really great competitor to Windows. Really saddened me that IBM gave up on it. IBM is a six hundred pound gorilla itself, but better something than nothing. I can't believe that Goliath laid down for puny Microsoft (was puny in comparison at the time).

If we still had IBM behind OS/2 today we probably would be having a completely different conversation like, "remember that upstart Microsoft, whatever happened to them." But much to our dismay IBM simply did not want to stay in the personal computer OS business. If they wanted to, they would have. Where does a six hundred pound gorilla go, anywhere it wants to.

Honestly, that is what frustrates me, I used to have a deep passion for using all the various OSes and loved OS/2 for the PC. (The Amiga before that.) Now, I just do not have that passion anymore, although I still enjoy using the various OSes. (I am in IT.) Oh well, the version of Windows spoken here could be an improvement but, we shall see.
 

/dev/null

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There's really no excuse to tolerate Windows telemetry and their other malicious madness.
If there was another viable choice for third-party software, sure, but Microsoft even owns Github, so you can't say, "move to Linux."

Face it. Linux sucks. At least for home PCs where you want to play games with modern tools and capabilities. I want to like Linux, but every time I install it, I come crawling back to ol' Bill. I'm pathetic.

The issue is the absolute monopoly they hold. When it's the only choice for most people, and so we end up choosing it en masse, how dare Microsoft force telemetry on us. They have too much power and influence. I don't care if they make lots of money. The issue is that the operating system spies on us. It's morally wrong.

Let's make it legally wrong too.

OS providers and ISPs should be severely punished by the law if they spy on us without the ability for us to opt-out 100% with no hidden backdoors or deceptions.

Dunno I've been using Linux since 2007. I played 2.5 hours of BL2 on Linux this morning with my buddy in France. Everything just worked.
 

IdiotInCharge

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I'm mostly interested in the WSL updates; beyond that, the new Terminal is looking better, Powershell 7.0 is coming along nicely, and the 'winget' CLI utility is quite cool and functions like 'apt-get'.
 

SolarisGuru

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Dunno I've been using Linux since 2007. I played 2.5 hours of BL2 on Linux this morning with my buddy in France. Everything just worked.

It seems like from my own experiences in gaming on Linux distros, the games may "work" just fine, but the performance isn't there. At least not the buttery smooth performance I want. I'd ditch Windows 10 in a heartbeat if my games ran just as smooth on Linux as they do on Windows 10. Unfortunately for me, I've not found a single distro/driver combination that can provide that for me... yet.
 

cybereality

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I've been back and forth with Linux for a while. I'm still trying on Ubuntu.

Gaming has been a lot better with Proton, I play a lot of older games and they mostly seem to work okay. Some don't work at all and others "work" as per ProtonDB but are not acceptable with glitches or missing features.

But, overall, I'd say the majority of Windows games I try do work fine out of box, maybe we are talking like 50 - 60% with no problems, and maybe more if you can compromise.

The last thing that is really bugging me is high refresh on Ubuntu. In games, it's fine, but desktop performance is not great, dragging windows around, etc.

I'm still trying to find the problem, maybe with the compositor. I could try different DEs, maybe that will help. It might be a GNOME thing.

Or I could live with it, but I spent a lot on the computer to not have everything smooth.
 

/dev/null

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It seems like from my own experiences in gaming on Linux distros, the games may "work" just fine, but the performance isn't there. At least not the buttery smooth performance I want. I'd ditch Windows 10 in a heartbeat if my games ran just as smooth on Linux as they do on Windows 10. Unfortunately for me, I've not found a single distro/driver combination that can provide that for me... yet.
Again, works fine for me. G-sync + freesync monitor at > 100hz.....no issues. It's there.
 

cybereality

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Yeah, I've had some problems, games not loading, sounds problems, etc. but performance is generally pretty good.

I've seen videos which do show a noticeable drop in performance, so if you don't have any extra power laying on the table that could be a concern.


Though it looks like Far Cry New Dawn has about the same perf, so some games can be fine.

 

blackmomba

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Here's the thing with Linux gaming

Steam is great, whatever has a native Linux version generally run as well as on Windows

For other storefronts I've tried, not so great. Yes, you can tweak and tune and get things running but the fact that you lose significant amounts of performance when emulating through wine is the biggest factor. You don't buy high end equipment just to be bogged down by emulation overhead

For someone who just wants to install and play, lutris and the like make the process very easy, but the end result isn't always there. I can see these same people coming on to message boards to scream about how Linux sucks
 

/dev/null

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Here's the thing with Linux gaming

Steam is great, whatever has a native Linux version generally run as well as on Windows

For other storefronts I've tried, not so great. Yes, you can tweak and tune and get things running but the fact that you lose significant amounts of performance when emulating through wine is the biggest factor. You don't buy high end equipment just to be bogged down by emulation overhead

For someone who just wants to install and play, lutris and the like make the process very easy, but the end result isn't always there. I can see these same people coming on to message boards to scream about how Linux sucks
Wine is not an emulator
 

Mystique

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Wake me up when anti-cheat on games like PUBG doesn't immediately fail on things like Wine. Don't get me wrong, Wine is cool, and got very far; but in my opinion, it will never get where it needs to go, because it's going the wrong way.

If Linux wants to have gaming become viable, they need to make VMware that lets you have a windows slave use your graphics card through an API so you can use linux for productive stuff and game through a GPU api on windows or something. That is available today, but not for people who have no idea how to do it; but it does have the potential to do great things.

Unfortunately noone is going to polyfill 50235827582 libraries, and re-write, and re-compile every game for Linux. So yeah, it's always going to be an emulator, and that's always worse than the real thing.
 

blackmomba

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You guys can keep living in the past. I'll continue gaming on Linux with no issues.

Not sure why so many get all annoyed when you say gaming under Linux isn't great for Windows games.

Play steam games all day, they work well on Linux

Throw something on like BFV that sold 4-5 million copies, you won't have as easy a time. Tried this not 5 days ago

Which is fine anyway
 

mufcfan

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Seriously? Two pages, in a week, and no one has joked about Microsoft entering the Iron Age? It's like... right there...

I guess this will be an interesting month. The pilot for the next version of Windows will probably begin soon on my work laptop and I will get Ubuntu 20.04 on my home desktop at around the 23rd.
 

cybereality

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I had some issues with Ubuntu, but I realize they were not Linux problems, probably because of GNOME.

I've installed Linux Mint and everything is working great. Smooth desktop at 166Hz, Ghostrunner is performing better now, everything is perfect.
 

NickM

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There are a ton of things that cannot be adjusted or even found in the Windows 10 Settings pane that are still available in the classic control panel. Try to update your software catalog in SCCM in Settings and get back to me. Or make fine changes in the power management.
 

ManofGod

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I had some issues with Ubuntu, but I realize they were not Linux problems, probably because of GNOME.

I've installed Linux Mint and everything is working great. Smooth desktop at 166Hz, Ghostrunner is performing better now, everything is perfect.

I am assuming that was not version 20.04?
 

d3athf1sh

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NOOOO!!!!

and well, with all the crap going on... is that the reason the first thing that popped into my brain was, "iron curtain"?
 

d3athf1sh

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click search type "control panel" its still there and basically the same as it always was.
true and that's how i get to it but it's like every other OS they keep trying to hide settings away from people. why. and goes back to why couldn't they have just made win7 the last OS and just add in a "touch/tablet mode" if if was really necessary?

you know win10 is a lot scarier than people even know. you think you have disabled telemetry. but if you run "enterprise" edition like i do, pull up "group policy" and scroll down those settings and see ALL THE OTHER info collection settings you can turn off!!! but ONLY if you are a business or educational institution and know how to do it. and after seeing some of the stuff in that list the only thing I'd EVER use IE or MS Edge for is to download another browser. Actually i really don't even like using windows anymore because of what i've seen and know now.

But all i can do is tell people. what you do with the information is up to you. but i encourage you to do your own investigation.

and man, you think it's no big deal now because you aren't doing anything bad, but just look how things are getting. guess as long as you keep licking boots and going along with whatever new way of control they introduce this week then you'll never have anything to ever worry about. now we got curfew?!!! i thought this was a free country?!!!! been like 35+ years since i had to be in by the time the street lights came on!!! wtf? this crap is getting out of hand. all of it.

p.s. and keep wearing that mask. so what happens when you touch something that's infected, and then adjust your mask? you may have had a chance before but now its on your mask you def getting whatever it is. covid, mold, swine flu, F*** who knows. masks are gonna be the end of us. if you got a steady supply of fresh ones good for you. just don't touch it w/ out sanitizing or else it's doing NOTHING.
 
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pendragon1

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true and that's how i get to it but it's like every other OS they keep trying to hide settings away from people. why. and goes back to why couldn't they have just made win7 the last OS and just add in a "touch/tablet mode" if if was really necessary?

you know win10 is a lot scarier than people even know. you think you have disabled telemetry. but if you run "enterprise" edition like i do, pull up "group policy" and scroll down those settings and see ALL THE OTHER info collection settings you can turn off!!! but ONLY if you are a business or educational institution and know how to do it. and after seeing some of the stuff in that list the only thing I'd EVER use IE or MS Edge for is to download another browser. Actually i really don't even like using windows anymore because of what i've seen and know now.

But all i can do is tell people. what you do with the information is up to you. but i encourage you to do your own investigation.

and man, you think it's no big deal now because you aren't doing anything bad, but just look how things are getting. guess as long as you keep licking boots and going along with whatever new way of control they introduce this week then you'll never have anything to ever worry about. now we got curfew?!!! i thought this was a free country?!!!! been like 35+ years since i had to be in by the time the street lights came on!!! wtf? this crap is getting out of hand. all of it.

p.s. and keep wearing that mask. so what happens when you touch something that's infected, and then adjust your mask? you may have had a chance before but now its on your mask you def getting whatever it is. covid, mold, swine flu, F*** who knows. masks are gonna be the end of us. if you got a steady supply of fresh ones good for you. just don't touch it w/ out sanitizing or else it's doing NOTHING.
ok...
 

CraigHB

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But all i can do is tell people. what you do with the information is up to you. but i encourage you to do your own investigation.

Telemetry is a common thing now with commercial software. Microsoft has simply jumped on the bandwagon. Google is the one that spearheaded the whole thing. That's why I'd never run a Chromebook or any other Android device given the choice (with phones you don't have many options).

Lots of programs you run will "phone home" for various reasons. You'd pretty much have to do a full diagnostic on your network with a TCP sniffer to find them all. My targets on the PC are the Windows, nVidia, and Chrome telemetry. The rest I let squeak by. I can't put the time into finding every single violator and shutting it down.

Microsoft actually publishes a guide to all the servers it contacts if you want to disable communication. I've done that (along with disabling related tasks and services). Most of them require registry tweaks (or use of the Group Policy Editor) which is not a big deal for me. I've kept all my Windows registry tweaks in a reg file over the years and simply merge them when I load a new instance. It's a pretty big file now.

Here's the document; https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/wi...ating-system-components-to-microsoft-services
 
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odditory

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Microsoft actually publishes a guide to all the servers it contacts if you want to disable communication. I've done that. Most of them require registry tweaks (or use of the Group Policy Editor) which is not a big deal for me. I've kept all my Windows registry tweaks in a reg file over the years and simply merge them when I load a new instance. It's a pretty big file now.

Here's the document; https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/wi...ating-system-components-to-microsoft-services
This doesn't disable telemetry.

The "Google does it too" thing has been discussed to death why it doesn't hold water and is at best disingenuous. Microsoft wanting to hop on the bandwagon is not sufficient incentive or justification for me or any user to care.

MS could resolve most of the criticisms by simply providing a telemetry off switch, but they won't. It shouldn't require obscure guides and registry hacks - that won't kill it 100% and that the next update can undo anyway.

And their guides and docs are not trustworthy because they lie by omission. "Disable Cortana" except it doesn't. "Here are some of the (carefully cherrypicked) datapoints telemetry collects", but we won't show you the full list, etc.
 
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ManofGod

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This doesn't disable telemetry.

The "but Google does it too" nonsense has been discussed to death why it doesn't hold water and is at best disingenuous. Microsoft "wanting to hop on the bandwagon" is not sufficient incentive or justification.

MS could resolve most of the criticisms by simply providing a telemetry off switch, but they won't. It shouldn't require guides and registry hacks that won't kill it 100% and that the next update can and likely will undo anyway.

And, no one cares if you think it is nonsense or not. He offered an actual, factual reality of the situation with an actual, factual solution, if you so choose to use it. So, where is your solution? (A solution is something that can be applied, today, by yourself.)
 

Aegir

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The solution is us coming together as technology enthusiasts and negotiating with Microsoft for a full and absolute telemetry OFF switch. How many people have actually contacted Microsoft to ask?

Send them mail to their Washington address if you want. If you haven't then why would they take us seriously?

More mail is better, so if you're reading this, then it's up to YOU to send them a message.
 

d3athf1sh

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This doesn't disable telemetry.

The "Google does it too" thing has been discussed to death why it doesn't hold water and is at best disingenuous. Microsoft wanting to hop on the bandwagon is not sufficient incentive or justification for me or any user to care.

MS could resolve most of the criticisms by simply providing a telemetry off switch, but they won't. It shouldn't require guides and registry hacks that won't kill it 100% and that the next update can and likely will undo anyway.

And their guides and docs are not trustworthy because they lie by omission. "Disable Cortana" except it doesn't. "Here are some of the (carefully cherrypicked) datapoints telemetry collects", but we won't show you the full list, etc.

and what good has any of the telemtry done? they're track record on bugs and f*** ups with Win10 is horrendous. thought it was suppose to make "everything better"? These days updating your OS is like playing russian roulette with your data / computer. Guess they are saving money by letting their user's alpha/beta test all the updates. I mean when the updates are crashing THEIR OWN MACHINES (surface pro's) there's just no way they are testing any of this garbage before pushing it out to us. Do we even need any of this mess? Everytime you get use to how you have your machine setup they got to come in and change stuff. Don't they know that most people don't like that crap. I'm sure there are some people that would still be using XP if they hadn't had killed it off, just for the simple fact that they were happy with how they had it setup and everything just worked.
 
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Staples

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HardForum used to be full of enthusiast. Now everyone is so fussy and hates change.

you know, they make a product for people who hate change and thus having relearn. It is called MacOS.
 

odditory

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HardForum used to be full of enthusiast. Now everyone is so fussy and hates change.

you know, they make a product for people who hate change and thus having relearn. It is called MacOS.

Change =/= improvement.

People hate change when it's for no reason, doesn't improve anything, and in W10's case removes features people liked and used to work well.

It's been half a decade of this bullshit, and 8 years altogether since Windows 8, and people still only tolerate the OS at best. And it's mainly just the kernel improvements that stand out as having improved the user experience since Windows 7. Settings still scattered all over the place and inconsistent, still a schizofrenic mess with no plan for ever being resolved.
 
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Staples

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Change =/= improvement.

People hate change only when it's for no reason, doesn't improve anything, and in W10's case removes features people liked and used to work well.

It's been half a decade of this bullshit, and 8 years altogether since Windows 8, and people still only tolerate the OS at best. And it's mainly just the kernel improvements that stand out as having improved the user experience since Windows 7. Settings still scattered all over the place and inconsistent, still a schizofrenic mess with no plan for ever being resolved.
The biggest advancements I have seen in Windows in the past few versions are
Windows snap (use it 100x a day)
Start menu search. When Vista came out, half the complaints were about the start menu. With windows search, who the hell uses the start menu? I have not since Vista
Much improved task manager
Virtual desktops - still lag behind MacOS but they are a welcome addition

So it is not all bad
 

d3athf1sh

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HardForum used to be full of enthusiast. Now everyone is so fussy and hates change.

you know, they make a product for people who hate change and thus having relearn. It is called MacOS.
booo! MacOS? isn't that what win10(x) is trying to be. and the reason they are doing this one OS with regular System updates and taking away or hiding access to settings, to be more like apple? so hey if that's what you like... and they already had window snap and start menu search in win7. all we got with windows 10 besides a bunch of headaches and telemetry is a dark theme and a redesigned logo. oh and live tiles in the start menu. hey only thing keeping a lot of us tied to windows is games. hey i dabble in linux but i can't completely leave because games. it just didn't have to end up like this.

and you can call me crazy all day but really they got it set it up like it is because microsoft is in the government's pocket. Ha, back door?.... no need for that when they got a garage door opener. when they want in now, they just hit the button. but heck that's been going on for years. part of all the documents snowden leaked. docs also said they had 100% success rate hacking apple products and that was what prob 10yrs ago now at least? now it's windows too. I mean why would they kill win7 the stable backbone of our business' and economy. and then give away the new OS they worked "so hard" on for free? what was in it for them?

to protect and infect part 2 ok i'm gonna go chill out now. been a long day.
 

Staples

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Windows 10 introduced virtual desktops (which is a super useful feature). I used to use a 3rd party app before it was an official feature. The 2004 release now lets you name each desktop which is a pretty useless feature but it is there. I'd love to be able to rearrange them (and yes, MacOS has had that forever).

MacOS is good except that you need to buy an expensive underpowered Mac to run it without issue. It is arranged better than Windows and hasn't changed much over the years. I agree that Settings is trying to centralize all the settings rather than them being scattered all over the place as they always have been.

There is a new version of Windows in development. Called Windows X IIRC. If they can get rid of the registry (and kill legacy support) that would be a huge improvement. And finish the Settings app.

WSL has been a neat feature if you are a web developer since almost everything is run on a linux web server. If you develop in a windows env and try it on a Linux server, issues can arise.
 

cybereality

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I mean why would they kill win7 the stable backbone of our business' and economy. and then give away the new OS they worked "so hard" on for free? what was in it for them?
Yeah, they did seem pretty eager to get everyone to update. And give away the product that made them their billions. Must be a motive there.
 

CraigHB

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Nothing is one hundred percent bad. There's been a lot of good that comes with the updates and they're free which is I think is pretty amazing. Apple charges for major updates where MS does not. However the bad comes with it too.

Microsoft still offers a lot of choice, they just don't put it out in front for your average user to access. You can still make Windows behave mostly how you want through the registry (or GPE). In some cases it's easier to do that stuff with an enterprise version since there's "less" stuff that's locked down. That being the case it's the version I run.

MS only partially listens to users. If they decide something is going to be a certain way nothing will change that. It's how they've always been. Microsoft is in control of your Windows experience and that's all there is to it. Like it or leave it.

Windows must have something going for it or everyone would jump ship. However the only practical choices are Linux and MacOS. They're not a walk in the park either.

MacOS locks you into certain hardware. The system is a lot more expensive and Apple controls your user experience to an even greater degree.

Linux is great in that it's open and free, no secrets there. It's night and day compared to how it was in the late nineties when I first tried it. However as far as it's come, you still have to be willing to spend time dealing with interoperability issues that may come up. Windows has simply never had those. In some cases Linux offers no easy solution to a hardware or software issue.

In general I've always felt there was a lower level of quality with open source software. It's a statement that will get the fan boys fired up, but that's my unwavering impression. You always have to live with something not working right. The trade-off with proprietary software is better quality, but then you have to suffer all the bullshit like forced updates and telemetry. Pick your poison.
 
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