Windows 10's Live Tiles Dead? Windows Lite Will Reportedly Feature a New Start Menu

Domingo

Fully [H]
Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Messages
17,607
I like some of them. Weather, Calendar, Mail, and the various social media app tiles are nice for information at a glance. I don't really use it, but Skype works the same way.
There isn't really much point to most apps having a "live" option, though. It's very specific to apps that feature lots of real time notifications.
 

Bigbacon

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
16,379
All of that post is terrifying to me. Do people not learn touch typing these days? I type quicker than most people by a large margin, but even as a little kid I could pull 60.
no they don't they learn touch screen typing.
 

sadsteve

Gawd
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
565
OTOH the world would be a better place if WIndows dominance was finally broken.
And replaced with what? Having some dominate player in PC OSes means the majority of the applications/games will be developed for it. Windows 10 started me dual booting with Linux and I'm liking Linux alot. However, I still boot to Windows for a number of applications that are not available (or don't work well) under Linux. The problem with Linux is that there's way to many flavors available, Debian, Arch, Suse, Redhat, Gentoo and all types of derivatives. I'm not much of Windows 10 fan ( but there needs to be some dominate player for the average consumer that just wants to run applications (not become an OS expert).
 

BB Gun

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 14, 2004
Messages
1,531
Windows Lite, like windows mobile, will gain no traction.
People cant stand Windows 10, anything perceived to do with it will not succeed.
They buried themselves and keep digging deeper.

MS need to release a new OS that isnt based on ID stealing, looks nice, isnt crap, stays how we configure it and isnt borked with every update.
Only when the feel good factor returns will they be accepted.
The win10 start menus isn't that bad, holy shit the hate. You elite PC nerds just make me laugh sometimes. Easy to clean out and make useful for just the way YOU like it... With the screen real estate we've got nowadays, its not really an issue. Plus the context sensitive "list the most recent docs when you right click on the icon" is useful as hell at work.

upload_2019-1-27_12-21-12.png

(yes, I collect photo editing software.... ;) )

Same. Yet, I have to wonder about people needing a start menu. It's so easy to just type the first few letters of an application and press enter, or double click on a desktop shortcut, so why is it really necessary to have a plain text menu like these people always whine about?
WTF do you put a ton of crap on your desktop making you have to show desktop when you want to click something. Especially when the menu is right there?

In all, tiles are left over and still intended to be used for the "tablet mode" of win8 and win10. But tablets are dying in favor of slim 2-in-1s and the expanding power/size of phones. The feature made no sense for a start menu desktop environment and it shows by their lack of use and dying support.

I just wish they'd bring widgets back. THOSE were useful. :D Just wish they weren't so damned insecure.

And +1000 for the experiences dealing with supposedly smart-ish employees who have NFI how to type or actually use a computer. Its really scary out there - even among a large PacNW aircraft manufacturer's stable of engineers and other tech workers.
 

B00nie

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
8,185
And replaced with what? Having some dominate player in PC OSes means the majority of the applications/games will be developed for it. Windows 10 started me dual booting with Linux and I'm liking Linux alot. However, I still boot to Windows for a number of applications that are not available (or don't work well) under Linux. The problem with Linux is that there's way to many flavors available, Debian, Arch, Suse, Redhat, Gentoo and all types of derivatives. I'm not much of Windows 10 fan ( but there needs to be some dominate player for the average consumer that just wants to run applications (not become an OS expert).
Replaced with linux and MacOS naturally. The lack of applications for linux is a direct result of a totally unnatural market dominance of Windows. Most people hate it but have no choice but to use it because some popular softwares are built on MS proprietary architectures. MS has played its hand very well, it has done all the right moves to ensure the competition cannot break through, such as offering proprietary libraries and development tools. IE based web applications are a good example on how they fooled people into 'easy' solutions that create a nightmare for them in the long run.
 

nutzo

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 15, 2004
Messages
7,380
For every person savvy enough in the office that we could agree on has basic computer skills, I can show you 5 that can't open outlook unless it's been pinned to their taskbar and even that's questionable because if the icon changes location they get lost.
For my general office users, I put shortcuts for all the standard apps we use on the desktop and also pin them to the task bar.
That's eliminated most the calls I used to get about not being able to find an application.
 

HoffY

Gawd
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
938
Yes, I use desktop icons too. That doesn't do anything to refute that the start menu is overblown in usefulness.
This is why you can't fathom.. because you chose to be ignorant. I never said a thing about desktop icons. Because... (and you'd have got htisi f you used your brain)... they are hidden byt he applications i am actually using. oh wow! Now there's a concept that works! oh snap.. the start menu is 2 clicks to start another app.. all without moving my hands. Your loss.
 

jardows

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
1,801
I have no use for live tiles. I turn them off as on of my first customization changes on Windows installs. I generally like the start menu, mainly for the customization available. Pretty much, I unpin everything that is pinned by default, then pin the programs I use the most. Hit the windows key, then one click. It's not perfect, but IMO, far better once tweaked to my liking than the Windows 95-Windows 7 start menu. The thing is, I couldn't tweak the previous start menus the way I liked, so this improvement has been welcome.
 

jnemesh

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 21, 2013
Messages
1,084
Live tiles are garbage. The ONLY redeeming feature of the new "Start Menu" is that it has a search bar. I type in the program I want to use, and it comes up and I click it. I don't think I have given any other part of the menu more than a glance.
 

TheOne&OnlyZeke

100% Irish
Joined
Jul 21, 2000
Messages
10,418
I liked live tiles....on my windows phone
That was the only use they really had
On a desktop OS, not so much
However I actually like the start menu. I have all my frequently used apps all laid out nice and neat and can find them fast
Its the way I like it
 

sadsteve

Gawd
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
565
The win10 start menus isn't that bad, holy shit the hate. You elite PC nerds just make me laugh sometimes. Easy to clean out and make useful for just the way YOU like it... With the screen real estate we've got nowadays, its not really an issue. Plus the context sensitive "list the most recent docs when you right click on the icon" is useful as hell at work.
I'd probably use the standard Win 10 Start Menu if it was hierarchical. I like to curate my Start Menu, I'll have just 5 or 6 top level entries (things like 'security', 'games', 'programming', etc). Under 'programming' I'll have CodeBlocks, multiple versions of Visual Studio, Multiple version of Code Composer Studio, etc. Also, most of the applications I install seem to have other applications and documents related to the main application. With the hierarchical menu, these other things will be in the same sublevel as the main application. For these reasons, I'll continue to use Open Shell instead of the flat Windows 10 menu.

A plus with Open Shell is that I can set the menu to use flyouts. Basically, it just requires 2 clicks to access/start anything in the in the menu.
 

sadsteve

Gawd
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
565
The lack of applications for linux is a direct result of a totally unnatural market dominance of Windows. Most people hate it but have no choice but to use it because some popular softwares are built on MS proprietary architectures.
What's unnatural about Windows dominance? They were first PC OS that got into the office/enterprise work space (through IBM PC's). Back in the day, businesses didn't think PC were really 'qualified' to be used in the office or manufacturing until IBM started selling them, they were then acceptable. And if you're using a PC at work you'll probably want one at home.

Maybe most of the techies hate it but I don't see many regular people having many issues. I don't like the flat UI, Cortana, tracking and the forced updates but I'm techie enough to control/stop everything but the flat UI. That said, I use Linux as my main computing platform and Windows 10 as my gaming and Photoshop platform.
 

Delicieuxz

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
May 11, 2016
Messages
1,054
The win10 start menus isn't that bad, holy shit the hate. You elite PC nerds just make me laugh sometimes. Easy to clean out and make useful for just the way YOU like it... With the screen real estate we've got nowadays, its not really an issue. Plus the context sensitive "list the most recent docs when you right click on the icon" is useful as hell at work.

View attachment 137873
(yes, I collect photo editing software.... ;) )
"Isn't that bad" isn't good enough when it was previously much better. The Windows 10 default start menu doesn't offer as many possibilities and is not nearly as straight-forward and easily decipherable as Window Vista, 7, and 8's start menu are and as a 3rd-party start menu replacement software lets it be:

startisback menu.jpg
 

Dk975

Gawd
Joined
Sep 24, 2005
Messages
838
I just finally got rid of all the tiles on my start menu. Never really used anything there, and if I need Charmap or Control Panel, I just type it in and open it.
 

B00nie

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
8,185
What's unnatural about Windows dominance? They were first PC OS that got into the office/enterprise work space (through IBM PC's). Back in the day, businesses didn't think PC were really 'qualified' to be used in the office or manufacturing until IBM started selling them, they were then acceptable. And if you're using a PC at work you'll probably want one at home.

Maybe most of the techies hate it but I don't see many regular people having many issues. I don't like the flat UI, Cortana, tracking and the forced updates but I'm techie enough to control/stop everything but the flat UI. That said, I use Linux as my main computing platform and Windows 10 as my gaming and Photoshop platform.
Microsoft has used illegal and unfair business practices in order to suffocate or buy out competition. This is why the world is plagued with it.
 

Dr. Righteous

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 1, 2007
Messages
3,163
MS need to release a new OS that isnt based on ID stealing, looks nice, isnt crap, stays how we configure it and isnt borked with every update.
Only when the feel good factor returns will they be accepted.
What they REALLY NEED is a modern version of Windows 7. No more, no less. Classic and familiar desktop. Why MS decided to toss all of this in the trash can is beyond me. The layout and functionality is what their customer was comfortable with and liked. BUT, what the dumba$$ focus groups said that everything was going to a "tablet like" touch screen. I guess they polled soccer moms and 8 year old kids. IT professionals, power uses; what do they know anyway?
 

Mohonri

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jul 29, 2005
Messages
5,748
What they REALLY NEED is a modern version of Windows 7. No more, no less. Classic and familiar desktop. Why MS decided to toss all of this in the trash can is beyond me. The layout and functionality is what their customer was comfortable with and liked. BUT, what the dumba$$ focus groups said that everything was going to a "tablet like" touch screen. I guess they polled soccer moms and 8 year old kids. IT professionals, power uses; what do they know anyway?
FWIW, there are a lot more soccer moms and 8-year-old kids than there are power users and sysadmins. But my understanding is that MS were going for a unified UI across PC/tablet/phone, especially given that stagnation in the PC market and growth in the mobile market. The problem is that 1) they never managed any traction in the phone market, and eventually abandoned it, 2) the tablet market stopped growing and they never gained any traction, and 3) the mobile-targeted Metro UI makes for a terrible experience on a desktop.

There's something to be said for keeping up with the times and keeping your product fresh. But there's a fine line between keeping it fresh and changing things just for the sake of changing them. There's a point where the product is mature and doesn't need major changes from the user's perspective. The PC market hit that point ten years ago, and the phone market hit it about 3-4 years ago. Android, iOS, and Windows haven't really had any significant improvements in user experience for several years. That means that sales drop, and companies have to cut costs and/or look elsewhere for revenue. That's why Win10 has all those "features" like unremovable bloat, telemetry (they don't have to spend as much to identify issues), insufficient QA/QC, ads, the Windows Store, etc
 

Hitti2

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 3, 2016
Messages
335
The win10 start menus isn't that bad, holy shit the hate. You elite PC nerds just make me laugh sometimes. Easy to clean out and make useful for just the way YOU like it... With the screen real estate we've got nowadays, its not really an issue. Plus the context sensitive "list the most recent docs when you right click on the icon" is useful as hell at work.

View attachment 137873
(yes, I collect photo editing software.... ;) )



WTF do you put a ton of crap on your desktop making you have to show desktop when you want to click something. Especially when the menu is right there?

In all, tiles are left over and still intended to be used for the "tablet mode" of win8 and win10. But tablets are dying in favor of slim 2-in-1s and the expanding power/size of phones. The feature made no sense for a start menu desktop environment and it shows by their lack of use and dying support.

I just wish they'd bring widgets back. THOSE were useful. :D Just wish they weren't so damned insecure.

And +1000 for the experiences dealing with supposedly smart-ish employees who have NFI how to type or actually use a computer. Its really scary out there - even among a large PacNW aircraft manufacturer's stable of engineers and other tech workers.

There is a widget pack. I use 8GadgetPackSetup.
8pGkyde.png
 

nilepez

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jan 21, 2005
Messages
11,630
Live tiles are garbage. The ONLY redeeming feature of the new "Start Menu" is that it has a search bar. I type in the program I want to use, and it comes up and I click it. I don't think I have given any other part of the menu more than a glance.
That's been around for at least 10 years, maybe since Vista.
 

Mazzspeed

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
2,587
The problem with Linux is that there's way to many flavors available, Debian, Arch, Suse, Redhat, Gentoo and all types of derivatives. I'm not much of Windows 10 fan ( but there needs to be some dominate player for the average consumer that just wants to run applications (not become an OS expert).
Keep using Linux, use it as much as you can. Eventually you'll realize that not being in any way locked down to one UI, one distro, is actually one of the greatest things ever - True freedom.

The Gnome devs want to lock down the Linux UI, and IMO Gnome is a mess. Thankfully my OS of choice allows me to avoid Gnome completely.
 

sadsteve

Gawd
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
565
Keep using Linux, use it as much as you can. Eventually you'll realize that not being in any way locked down to one UI, one distro, is actually one of the greatest things ever - True freedom.

The Gnome devs want to lock down the Linux UI, and IMO Gnome is a mess. Thankfully my OS of choice allows me to avoid Gnome completely.
Oh yes, I like the freedom, but I've been building/programming computers since the late 70's. I've played with FreeBSD (I know it's not Linux), Mint , Ubuntu, Redhat and a few others before I made my choice. Personally, I liked FreeBSD the best but Linux has a broader range of hardware support so I went with Linux. For the average consumer though, having a plethora of choices is not necessarily a good thing. Most of the non-developers I know really aren't interesting in learning about the workings of the OS, they just want to play their games, write emails, do Facebook, etc. Having a common system that comes with their desktop/laptop purchase would be a better option for them.
 

Mazzspeed

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
2,587
Oh yes, I like the freedom, but I've been building/programming computers since the late 70's. I've played with FreeBSD (I know it's not Linux), Mint , Ubuntu, Redhat and a few others before I made my choice. Personally, I liked FreeBSD the best but Linux has a broader range of hardware support so I went with Linux. For the average consumer though, having a plethora of choices is not necessarily a good thing. Most of the non-developers I know really aren't interesting in learning about the workings of the OS, they just want to play their games, write emails, do Facebook, etc. Having a common system that comes with their desktop/laptop purchase would be a better option for them.
Consider modern society, consider the vast number of computer based interfaces people have to deal with on a daily basis now. From Android, to iOS, to macOS, to their smart TV, remote control, smart watch and surveillance system - Just to name a handful of commonly used interfaces these days.

It's not 1987 anymore, as long as the icon looks like the Chrome/Mozilla icon, as long as the file manager icon looks like a folder, as long as the email client's icon looks like an envelope and as long as the office suite icon looks like a document - People will navigate the interface just fine. True freedom involves not being locked down, choose whatever interface you prefer.
 

Mazzspeed

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
2,587
Did you struggle to use a VCR in the day?

It was 'Play' to play the tape. 'Stop' to stop playback. 'Rew' to rewind and 'F/Fwd' to fast forward.

'Eject' ejected the tape so you could insert a new one. ;)

Actually a really good example. There was many different makes and layout's of VCR, yet everyone knew how to use one.
 

clockdogg

Gawd
Joined
Dec 12, 2007
Messages
1,014
Did you struggle to use a VCR in the day?

It was 'Play' to play the tape. 'Stop' to stop playback. 'Rew' to rewind and 'F/Fwd' to fast forward.

'Eject' ejected the tape so you could insert a new one. ;)

Actually a really good example. There was many different makes and layout's of VCR, yet everyone knew how to use one.
No struggle. Just annoying when the power went off and the blinking began. For weeks. :p
 

nilepez

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jan 21, 2005
Messages
11,630
Its much more useful in Windows 10, especially since the rest of the start menu is such a mess...
/shrug. I didn't think that vista+ was worth a crap unless you did search (or constantly moved shortcuts around the start menu (via explorer as I recall). I do think it's better than Vista, but truth is I can't remember if I started searching in Vista or 7. I know it wasn't until 7 that i realized there was a search function in control panel. I didn't notice a huge change going from 7 to 8 or 8 to 10 (but maybe the changes were subtle if you didn't go from 7-10 directly).
 
Top