Windows 10's Live Tiles Dead? Windows Lite Will Reportedly Feature a New Start Menu

Megalith

Megalith

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MSPoweruser predicts Windows 10’s Start Menu will be getting redesigned because Windows Lite, Microsoft’s ChromeOS competitor, is getting rid of live tiles in favor of a common, static app launcher. As support continues to decrease from both Microsoft and Windows developers, there doesn’t seem to be much of a reason to keep the current Start Menu around, the core portion of which revolves around live tiles. Windows Central, which broke the news on Windows Lite, is convinced the concept is dead due to lack of updates.

The reason I bring this up is because I've been speaking to quite a few internal sources about Windows Lite, and it's looking like Windows Lite doesn't even have live tiles. It appears Microsoft is entirely omitting this feature in favor of the more common app launcher with static icons as seen on iOS, Android, and Chrome OS. If Windows Lite launches without live tiles, where is the incentive for developers to continue supporting such a feature on desktop?
 
Windows Lite, like windows mobile, will gain no traction.
People cant stand Windows 10, anything perceived to do with it will not succeed.
They buried themselves and keep digging deeper.

MS need to release a new OS that isnt based on ID stealing, looks nice, isnt crap, stays how we configure it and isnt borked with every update.
Only when the feel good factor returns will they be accepted.
 
If the picture you have is the new one, I don't like (though I might change my mind if it can be resized). As for live tiles, the only one I find particularly useful is the weather one, but even then I often still open the app. I guess the news one is OK, but truth is I get a notification on most news stories of interest, so I really don't need the live tile. Nevertheless, I'd take the current start menu over one that takes over the the full width of the window.
 
Started calling them dead tiles over the last month or so. Some just stop being "live" on some systems for no apparent reason. No reviving them once they go it seems.
 
When Windows 10 was in beta, after they first brought the Start Menu back, the version they had at that time was the one it should have shipped with.
 
HAL_404 said:
I clear out all Live Tiles except for the Weather app
Click to expand...
Same. Yet, I have to wonder about people needing a start menu. It's so easy to just type the first few letters of an application and press enter, or double click on a desktop shortcut, so why is it really necessary to have a plain text menu like these people always whine about?
 
GoldenTiger said:
Same. Yet, I have to wonder about people needing a start menu. It's so easy to just type the first few letters of an application and press enter, or double click on a desktop shortcut, so why is it really necessary to have a plain text menu like these people always whine about?
Click to expand...
Working with normal dumbass computer users on a regular basis, it's simple.

1: A lot of them will fill up their desktop, even on 1440p and 4k displays with all of their documents and crap. Seeing someone complain because they have no more space to have icons on their desktop on a 1440p display is amazing. Show them that they can make folders to put their stuff in, most of them won't like it because it's no longer "right there an easy to get to". Explain that they can't keep infinitely adding icons "so get rid of these that I don't want" while pointing at shortcuts to My Documents. Once I actually got asked for a 3rd monitor(we don't hand out 3rd monitors), I asked why at their desk, and they just wanted more space for icons.

2: It's 2019, and people seeing my tap the windows key and start typing and hitting enter blows their minds. When they try doing it, their 2-5wpm isn't quick enough, and my blazing fast how can you even type that quick 35-40wpm is just too much for them.

3: I've watched people install programs, see the shortcut appear for the new program on their desktop, and they can't find it.
 
Merc1138 said:
Working with normal dumbass computer users on a regular basis, it's simple.

1: A lot of them will fill up their desktop, even on 1440p and 4k displays with all of their documents and crap. Seeing someone complain because they have no more space to have icons on their desktop on a 1440p display is amazing. Show them that they can make folders to put their stuff in, most of them won't like it because it's no longer "right there an easy to get to". Explain that they can't keep infinitely adding icons "so get rid of these that I don't want" while pointing at shortcuts to My Documents. Once I actually got asked for a 3rd monitor(we don't hand out 3rd monitors), I asked why at their desk, and they just wanted more space for icons.

2: It's 2019, and people seeing my tap the windows key and start typing and hitting enter blows their minds. When they try doing it, their 2-5wpm isn't quick enough, and my blazing fast how can you even type that quick 35-40wpm is just too much for them.

3: I've watched people install programs, see the shortcut appear for the new program on their desktop, and they can't find it.
Click to expand...
All of that post is terrifying to me. Do people not learn touch typing these days? I type quicker than most people by a large margin, but even as a little kid I could pull 60.
 
Live tiles was a stupid idea to begin with because they serve no practical purpose and take up way too much space and unnecessarily require tons of mouse travel to select an item. The live tile design is the opposite of useful and is there only to look flashy - while being less efficient than the traditional start menu.

The screenshot of a redesigned start menu in the linked-to article also looks awful. It's bloated and way too spread out, suffering, like live tiles, from a design that betrays visual and productive efficiency.

There really is nothing to improve on the traditional start menu, and eventually Microsoft will have to just restore it because all their experimenting with these other crap ideas is just wasting time and resources and making things worse, not better.


I use Startisback to restore the Windows 10 start menu to a functional, customizable, and efficient state, and it's perfect. I pin all my regularly used programs to it.
 
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GoldenTiger said:
It's so easy to just type the first few letters of an application and press enter, or double click on a desktop shortcut, so why is it really necessary to have a plain text menu like these people always whine about?
Click to expand...

Its simple. If you are a person that is always thinking efficiencies (or lucky enough to have a job and a boss always pushing it to reinforce this) then you can quite easily figure out why.

Its quicker and more efficient to click twice with your mouse then it is to remove your hands from A)the mouse, and, B)the other hand from whatever it was doing (yeah go ahead... fap jokes are welcome) and THEN have to type just "the first few letters", and then move your hands BACK to the mouse (and the continue the fapping with the other hand).

This is frustrating.. inefficient and becomes hella annoying to do so many times a day. Sometimes... i do the typing thing simply because i do not know what program is called or is a program that is not used as much as others and there for there is no quick shortcut in a nicely organised menu (being a start screen style 8/10 or Win7 style).

So wonder no more about why people like a start menu. It was you all along that could not grasp the basic common sense reason why it is liked or used.

And for the record, to nip it in the bud... i can type faster then 40wpm so chicken pecking those 3 letters is pretty quick. ;)
 
The one thing I'd like to see most from Microsoft in regard to the start menu is a toggle option for desktop icons that goes alongside it make enable/disable them being hidden alongside the windows start menu or brought up and shown in the same way via the win key. That one thing thing would cleanup the desktop immensely and at the same time be easy enough to enable/disable. It's just a nice way to keep eyesore at bay especially you have a good desktop wallpaper set, but even otherwise it's great for odd ball boarder-less gaming at non native resolutions say you want to game at 4:3 aspect ratio on a 1080p display. You could do that w/o it hampering your other applications and w/o the eye sore of ugly desktop icons that virtually everyone user out there is bound to have scattered all over their desktop. They'd still be plenty convenient enough, but not in your face as much unless that's what you want and then you just toggle it to stay a eye sore if you please.
 
GoldenTiger said:
All of that post is terrifying to me. Do people not learn touch typing these days? I type quicker than most people by a large margin, but even as a little kid I could pull 60.
Click to expand...
Touch typing? HAHAHA, no.

This is a company with employees ranging between ages 25 and 60, in the SF bay area. It's not a tech company yet people need to use computers constantly and have done so for years(decades) in this particular industry. With 300+ employees, the only people outside of the IT department that can touch type, are some(not all) of the people in finance/HR(yet they can all 10-key like no tomorrow). Hell, I'll give you some examples of the shit regarding keyboards I put up with because of "normal" computer users...

"help I need a new keyboard" "why? yours works fine, I'll even test it right now... see works fine?" "yeah but some of the letters are rubbed off of the keys" "stop looking at the keys, I didn't look at the keys" "But then now do I know where they are?" "they don't change around"

"Can I get one of those fancy keyboards that light up?" "No, but you can buy your own peripherals if you want" "but that's like $50!" "and your keyboard is $15, why do you need a light up keyboard?" "so I can see the letters easier"

"I want an ergonomic keyboard, my wrists hurt" "ok, we have microsoft ergo model 4000 KBs if you want" "ok, thanks" 2 weeks later "help my elbows hurt!" "but you have an ergonomic keyboard" "are you calling me a liar?" "no, let me see you type" hands immediately start flailing all over the place to hunt and peck because they're reaching over to the wrong sides of the keyboard with both hands

The amount of things that normal computer users, who aren't nerds/enthusiasts/tech people/etc. manage to do on a daily basis is absolutely insane. These nimrods are the same reason why if you call tech support for something you get asked "did you plug it in, power cycle it, etc." because people actually forget that crap all the time. I had to drive 2 hours one-way for an "emergency" at a branch office once because the user there after speaking with one of my employees over the phone for 30 minutes was finally freaking out(shouting, prompting complaints from other users in their vicinity) since they couldn't handle troubleshooting the power strip under their desk, because their computer wouldn't turn on. So again, 2 hours to drive there and no shit... just like my employee was trying to explain, the switch on the surge protector had been bumped and I needed to press it. Then that means another 2 hour drive back, so not only was my time as the manager wasted, but the company had to pay out my mileage for driving 4 hours in the middle of the day(I'd rather drive my own car than a company vehicle) and bridge toll to flip a damn power switch.
 
HoffY said:
Its simple. If you are a person that is always thinking efficiencies (or lucky enough to have a job and a boss always pushing it to reinforce this) then you can quite easily figure out why.

Its quicker and more efficient to click twice with your mouse then it is to remove your hands from A)the mouse, and, B)the other hand from whatever it was doing (yeah go ahead... fap jokes are welcome) and THEN have to type just "the first few letters", and then move your hands BACK to the mouse (and the continue the fapping with the other hand).

This is frustrating.. inefficient and becomes hella annoying to do so many times a day. Sometimes... i do the typing thing simply because i do not know what program is called or is a program that is not used as much as others and there for there is no quick shortcut in a nicely organised menu (being a start screen style 8/10 or Win7 style).

So wonder no more about why people like a start menu. It was you all along that could not grasp the basic common sense reason why it is liked or used.

And for the record, to nip it in the bud... i can type faster then 40wpm so chicken pecking those 3 letters is pretty quick. ;)
Click to expand...
Yes, I use desktop icons too. That doesn't do anything to refute that the start menu is overblown in usefulness.
 
10AppsManager 2.0 from major geeks and Classic shell from classicshell.net are the 2 programs I have used now for 4 years on all my customer computers, since Windows 8/10's attempt at this terrible metro UI interface. I have quite a few older customers and Microsoft really thinks that an 70 year old user wants to be retrained on how to use windows start menu?
 
While the endless end users issue are are a pain to deal with especially on a daily basis and even more so in a large environment.

I can not fault them .

this industry has repeatedly tossed usability standards out the window in favor of trying something new be damned consistency.

then to top it all off they tried desperately to switch every one to tablets with even more haphazard consistency on getting things accomplished.

i look at all the changes over the years and i think its actually amazing that users get anything done. especially considering they have far larger tasks to deal with than tying to understand the libraries function and organizing ones files.

so i dont really think its all on the user. its marketing and design and tech support who have fallen short in getting the user into a state where they are more proficient.

Design: always changing how things are done (and not for the better), Marketing: wanting to monetize every click and file on your desktop, and Tech Support: for backing all this BS with you need the newer, so it keeps you safe....

God save the User, may the rest of us burn in hell, for all the users want to do is create a simple file.
why?? because all the rest of us want the user to type 60 wpm, jump through marketing, design, and security hoops for each and every task . learn the new widget every year despite the old widget was working fine last year.

And above all else they will use this crappy bottom dollar hardware put here before them and like it, irregardless that we wouldn't have any of that crap in a closet in our homes because we trashed that crap 10 years ago.
 
Out IT department routinely gives out short training like how to use task bar, adding items to the task bar, removing, adding new toolbars to most used folders, shortcuts etc. If you don't train your folks then some of the blame will lie on you. If a supervisor can't see their employees struggling, upgrades their ability or if they can't get the job done, find someone that can - they themselves should be replaced. None of our secretaries, supervisors, operators that use computers daily have these problems - the ones that do (this is some rather basic stuff) don't last long.
 
GoldenTiger said:
All of that post is terrifying to me. Do people not learn touch typing these days? I type quicker than most people by a large margin, but even as a little kid I could pull 60.
Click to expand...
Never mind that you don't have to type very fast for the start menu. Hell, with one finger I can type netflix fast enough, since it only takes 2 letters to bring it up.
 
Nenu said:
MS need to release a new OS that isnt based on ID stealing, looks nice, isnt crap, stays how we configure it and isnt borked with every update.
Only when the feel good factor returns will they be accepted.
Click to expand...
Amen brotha. Unfortunately they're incapable of developing anything that makes that much sense.
 
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It's quite incredbile how bad Windows menus have become to use. It's literally easier to use search than use the menu.
 
Nenu said:
Windows Lite, like windows mobile, will gain no traction.
People cant stand Windows 10, anything perceived to do with it will not succeed.
They buried themselves and keep digging deeper.

MS need to release a new OS that isnt based on ID stealing, looks nice, isnt crap, stays how we configure it and isnt borked with every update.
Only when the feel good factor returns will they be accepted.
Click to expand...
OTOH the world would be a better place if WIndows dominance was finally broken.
 
chaos4u said:
While the endless end users issue are are a pain to deal with especially on a daily basis and even more so in a large environment.

I can not fault them .

this industry has repeatedly tossed usability standards out the window in favor of trying something new be damned consistency.

then to top it all off they tried desperately to switch every one to tablets with even more haphazard consistency on getting things accomplished.

i look at all the changes over the years and i think its actually amazing that users get anything done. especially considering they have far larger tasks to deal with than tying to understand the libraries function and organizing ones files.

so i dont really think its all on the user. its marketing and design and tech support who have fallen short in getting the user into a state where they are more proficient.

Design: always changing how things are done (and not for the better), Marketing: wanting to monetize every click and file on your desktop, and Tech Support: for backing all this BS with you need the newer, so it keeps you safe....

God save the User, may the rest of us burn in hell, for all the users want to do is create a simple file.
why?? because all the rest of us want the user to type 60 wpm, jump through marketing, design, and security hoops for each and every task . learn the new widget every year despite the old widget was working fine last year.

And above all else they will use this crappy bottom dollar hardware put here before them and like it, irregardless that we wouldn't have any of that crap in a closet in our homes because we trashed that crap 10 years ago.
Click to expand...

The thing is, if I were talking about users presented with interfaces that change every year or two, you'd have a point.

I'm talking about people that have used QWERTY keyboards for 30 years and still cannot find ASDF without looking down at the thing. Windows 7 launched in 2009, people who have been using it for almost 10 years still cannot grasp basic concepts. Keyboard shortcuts that have existed for 20+ years(simple every day things like ctrl+c and ctrl+v) are beyond their grasp. The reason why companies keep changing things, is because they're trying to find something that works for these people. For every person savvy enough in the office that we could agree on has basic computer skills, I can show you 5 that can't open outlook unless it's been pinned to their taskbar and even that's questionable because if the icon changes location they get lost. These are the same people who have to type in their login password 10 times a day, haven't had to reset their password in close to 3 months, and will somehow manage to forget it prompting a password reset request.

You and I are not the average user. Even if you look at the average user, there are tons of people who have even less of a clue and will never get anything through their heads. Hell, I've seen people amazed that I can type a 1500 word email without ever looking down at the keyboard and when I explain that I can type faster because I can see the mistakes on the screen and correct them as they happen, their minds are blown because my mediocre typing speed makes me some sort of hacking genius in their minds.

Even if George Carlin didn't understand statistics with his quote about how stupid the average person is and half of 'em being dumber than that, he's still got a point in the sense of how many people are actually on the wrong side of the bell curve.
 
I only use the Tiles for opening Word. "W" is waaaaay down the start-menu and takes too long to get to. Otherwise, my oft-used programs are on the taskbar or a desktop shortcut.

Yeah, the W10 tiles thing is stupid. Why did W10 populate it with crap I've NEVER EVEN OPENED ONCE???

Oh...they're trying to entice me. Gotcha. The tiles are for their marketing, not for my convenience.

And the titles? "Life at a glance" and "play and explore"? What total nimrod came up with that? Was it the result of some sort of drum-circle consensus?

Bah! Tiles be gone!
 
Just another one of the many useless features I switch off on endless customers machines. No one has ever complained.

That or I slap Classic Start set to Win7 mode on for the older users.

I get so tired switching off all the useless junk in 10, I really do.
 
I thought live tiles were a neat concept when they first came out but I never got into them. Too much delay and distracting movement. I just use the live tiles area to pin shortcuts to my programs so I don't have to find them in the list.

knowom said:
The one thing I'd like to see most from Microsoft in regard to the start menu is a toggle option for desktop icons that goes alongside it make enable/disable them being hidden
Click to expand...

If you want that feature now give Stardock Fences a try. One of its features is adding a double-click to hide your desktop icons, double-click again to bring them back. You can even set it to leave certain icons visible all of the time.
 
Get rid of the bloat - the live tiles are too heavy and I find them distracting. I'm prepared to catch some crap for this next comment, but I like the macOS approach. They have an icon on the Dock that launches your available apps. Or, you just type the first few letters for an even better experience. (Win+R does the same).
 
Live tiles: Either more to remind you of the program you are looking for, or more to CONFUSE you about the program you are looking for.. I am not sure.
I have W10 in another PC, but just launch a few things and that is it.
 
Seems MS is doing to Win 10 what they did to Win 7 years ago. When Win 7 shipped, one of the 'new and exciting' features were Widgets(or Gadgets, something like that), that were basically early versions of Win10s live tiles. Cute at first, but didn't get much support and were later deemed a security risk and removed during a patch cycle.

Have to wonder if this marks the end to MS's policy of one UI to rule them all across all devices?
 
I've been using Win10 since I joined the Insider's Oct. 1 2014, am now on version 1903, build 18323, and in all of that time I have never used tiles. From the first iteration of Win10, Tiles have been optional--this isn't better known I think because the people often writing about Win10 either don't use it or else don't know how to use it...;) I'm sure this has to do with Win10 users electing not to use the tiles (tiles = hangover from Win8) and preferring to use the straight start menu instead--has nothing to do with iOS--as Windows was using tileless start menus before iOS, etc., ever shipped. It's always baffling why they went to Win8 after Win7's complete success in the marketplace--I chalked it up to Ballmer's bad leadership at Microsoft, and thankfully Ballmer has been gone for years! The last of those horrible decisions of his are fading away--Ballmer almost destroyed the company--Win8, Windows phone, and the aborted (thankfully) attempt to buy Yahoo! for a cool $40B (!), were all Ballmer's doing--his rather stupid urges to copy Apple since he, Ballmer, was drafted from sales and didn't know much of anything about hardware and software, imo. The Yahoo! thing was really ironic since it was the disdain of one of Yahoo!'s co-founders that actually saved Microsoft's bacon--he hated Microsoft so much he turned down the $40B offer--had he "taken the money and run" he could have really hurt Microsoft. He wound up helping them because of his bias, however. It doesn't get more ironic than that. Glad to see that period wrapping up for good!
 
primetime said:
i reinstall starisback and find it quicker!:) And unfortunately much better
Click to expand...

Yeah, I also use an alternate Start Menu (Open Shell). I really like having a hierarchy in my Start Menu. Plus, Open Shell is very configurable.
 
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