Windows 10 Will Be An Automatic Recommended Update

rezerekted said:
Wasting hours of people's time and bandwidth is not excusable by "it can be rolled back easily". Microsoft are now officially just another douchebag American corporation and that is no "conspiracy", it is fact.
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How many people did this really effect? I'm not saying that no one was and I'm not saying that it should have been done this way. I just want to know how many people were effected. To say that even if one was is not reasonable considering the number of devices involved. Was it 1%, 10%, 90%?

There is all of this talk about all of all of this stuff with few facts, no numbers, no nothing. People will bitch and moan when Microsoft says there are 110 million Windows installs but won't mention how many were rolled back. Everyone likes to preach about their agenda from douchebag American corporation from anonymous Internet posters without all the numbers.

With all the numbers and facts my guess is that neither douchebag American corporation nor anonymous Internet posters would look particularly good in any debate.
 
ccman said:
I think it's difficult for society today to respectfully disagree and remain cordial about it. I know I struggle with separating differences of opinions, disagreements, or arguments from my feelings (maybe insecurities). There is a desire to be right, be recognized as being right, and have the people around you agree with you. It's an advanced social skill and requires that you feel secure in yourself.

First, we're on the internet behind glowing screens and a keyboard and mouse (or touch, ink, and Cortana, apparently). Second, we're technology enthusiasts. Those are two big strikes against us to begin with. Then look at the sort of vitriol and polarization in America today. In that light, we're not doing so bad.
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Hi All

I guess you're right however, to me at least, it's all about personal choice. If you're satisfied with brand X & i'm satisfied with brand Y, why should there be any argument? Each of us is satisfied with their choice. What works for me, may not work for you & Vice Versa. Surely we can agree on that. can't we?
 
jtm55 said:
Hi All

I guess you're right however, to me at least, it's all about personal choice. If you're satisfied with brand X & i'm satisfied with brand Y, why should there be any argument? Each of us is satisfied with their choice. What works for me, may not work for you & Vice Versa. Surely we can agree on that. can't we?
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I see your point. My post was an idea I've been playing around with that isn't related to Windows 10 or this thread directly. I had previously thought the level of defense of a company and attack of its competitors we're seeing here was reserved for hardcore Apple enthusiasts. At least I understood their attachment, as part of their identity was associated with their choice of Apple.

I get the impression that even the people posting on this thread who would say they can understand why some users might be justified and picking Linux or Mac OS X over Windows (quickly interjecting that Linux isn't for the masses) think Windows 10 holdouts are idiots and aren't justified in staying with Windows 7, that Windows 10 is superior to Windows 7 in every way. It is nearly as if dissent towards parts of Windows 10 is a threat to Windows 10 in their mind, when people who prefer Windows 7 clearly don't have that power. If anything, it seems the threat from Microsoft is clearly aimed at Windows 7 users, not Windows 10 users.
 
heatlesssun said:
Perhaps not. But it can be rolled back pretty easily. That's one thing that all of the conspiracy folks never point out.
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Until it blows up your OS during rollback which then forces you to figure out how to install from media or reload the factory original image which takes time too. None of that is okay and the reason why you've been hiding out from this thread is that none of the problems people are dealing with are undeniable or sugar coat-able with your usual heatlesssun-unhealthy-Microsoft-obsessed justifications. It's actually people like you that make an already terrible forced upgrade worse through your irrational spooge-love with a piece of shitty software that you have no financial interest in aside from the income you've burned away buying large numbers of totally redundant pieces of overpriced computing hardware instead of saving for you inevitable, fast approaching old age when your poor money management when it comes to your obsession will result in you being a burden on the rest of society because you can't work and don't have anything put away for your future...which a by them obsolete tablet will not spare you from facing.
 
heatlesssun said:
How many people did this really effect? I'm not saying that no one was and I'm not saying that it should have been done this way. I just want to know how many people were effected. To say that even if one was is not reasonable considering the number of devices involved. Was it 1%, 10%, 90%?

There is all of this talk about all of all of this stuff with few facts, no numbers, no nothing. People will bitch and moan when Microsoft says there are 110 million Windows installs but won't mention how many were rolled back. Everyone likes to preach about their agenda from douchebag American corporation from anonymous Internet posters without all the numbers.

With all the numbers and facts my guess is that neither douchebag American corporation nor anonymous Internet posters would look particularly good in any debate.
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It's not a matter of numbers, it's principle. I shouldn't have to install updates on a system that I 100% own if I don't want to (win 10 forced updates). I shouldn't have "marketing data" (ie. Be spied on) collected on me with the inability to opt out on a piece of hardware that I fucking own. I can't complain too much, my PCs mainly run Linux, but I do have one desktop that uses windows for games and MS pisses me off every time I boot it up.
 
sliverjazz said:
Windows 10 uploads every single key press on your keyboard and stores it permanently on Microsoft's cloud, freely shared with their "trusted partners", which includes (but may not be limited to) the NSA. There's still a big difference between passive monitoring of data, and using Windows 10, which actively collects EVERYTHING about you and sends it directly to the authorities!
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And there are ways to eliminate that from happening, e.g. DoNotSpy10 and other programs which modify the hosts file/otherwise block the telemetry data from being sent.

I did that on my laptop (won't upgrade to 10 on my desktop, since I can't be sure that my 32-bit copy of Opera 12.17 won't get screwed up some, as that's how I view my RSS feeds, and it screwed up the 64-bit version on the laptop)--and I used several programs just to make sure. Granted, I can't get the insider builds--but that's a small price to pay for not having my every move tracked.
 
BigTroll said:
I got some nice Pentium 4 machines cruising on VISTA so I don't have to worry about this. LONG LIVE VISTA the NAGFREE OS!
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My Win7 desktop is nag-free. It's all about NOT installing KB3035583 and the telemetry-reporting "updates". I have never once seen the "Get Windows 10" upgrade tray icon. Never once been notified that Win10 is available for me to get in Windows update. Never.

Because I know what I'm doing, that's why.
 
nutzo said:
I have always left updates turned off on my HTPC, and would manually run updates every couple months. Ever since Windows 10 was released, I haven't bothered updating. I don't want to take a chance on Windows 10 messing it up, since the media center is no longer supported.
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If you read my post on page 3, you'll find that's not quite true.
 
Windows 10 does have some improvements over 7 but its far from perfect.

Things I dont like.

The flat look its like we back to windows 95 days.
The lack of customisation, I mean there is things you could do in windows 2000 that are not possible in windows 10, what were they thinking?
Lack of VSS
Telemetry
Enforced updates, pro users can set windows update to notify only mode, and using the tool microsoft released they can disable specific updates but its still way more hassle than what it is on windows 7. Also in notify only mode it starts getting aggressive the longer you ignore updates like locking your screen with a install now button the only clickable part of the interface (escape cancels screen).
Enforced driver installs, this was possible to turn off in build 10240 but in the latest tech preview build the option is removed.
Horrible modern interface (metro) that interface remains just as horrid as it was when first introduced, especially on resolutions below 1440p as is designed for high dpi.
Laggy start menu - some kind of big? dont know but at tomes the start menu has a noticeble pause before appearing.
Poor search, its gone backwards since win7
Unable to disable nagle algorithm (delayed acks), function is locked down to server OS only.

The list is longer but I am having to stop now as need to do something else. :)
 
Dr. Righteous said:
Linux anyone?

Seriously Vulkan is showing many advantages over DX 12.
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Except announced games for Linux. Toss all the great APIs you want at a given platform: if there aren't any enticing software releases to take advantage of the APIs, they might as well not exist.

Anyway, it's amazing how this forum flips out over unchecking a box or hiding an icon, then seemingly takes pride in not installing updates in general.
 
heatlesssun said:
At any rate if they are it should be pretty easy for someone to prove. Because it's hard to believe that a billion plus Windows devices giving up all that data could be kept a secret forever.
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Without having access to code there's really no way to know what's going on, unless there's some kind of leak from inside the company. I'm not a Stallman type but I do think that for some of these fundamental interactions that people have with their devices, the code should be open source. At least things like the kernel, certain drivers like those in the networking stack, the browser, and the file system.

We can't exactly snoop packets since everything outgoing to MS servers is encrypted (as it should be).
 
ruffbytes said:
The selling of data was a flippant remark.

I believe that when something is free then the consumer product! They have to be monetizing this somehow.
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Windows 10 is free for a year as an enticement to upgrade. After that period expires, you have to pay to upgrade, just like any other version of Windows. This is being subsidized by MS' other revenue, not by invading your privacy.

The complaints about Windows 10's supposed privacy invasion seems to revolve around not understanding what telemetry actually is. You've been sending telemetry to Microsoft since Windows XP in the form of crash reports.
 
DeathFromBelow said:
Insulting him doesn't make your willful ignorance of the problem more credible.
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Except that given the fact that I cited the offending update: clearly shows that I'm neither willfully ignorant nor ignorant at all of any problem. Nor did I insult anyone. Perhaps you're just looking for trouble where none exists.

Let me know when you actually know what you're talking about.
 
canna said:
It's not a matter of numbers, it's principle. I shouldn't have to install updates on a system that I 100% own if I don't want to (win 10 forced updates). I shouldn't have "marketing data" (ie. Be spied on) collected on me with the inability to opt out on a piece of hardware that I fucking own. I can't complain too much, my PCs mainly run Linux, but I do have one desktop that uses windows for games and MS pisses me off every time I boot it up.
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Tldr: I'm an advanced user who is to damn lazy or cheap to get the version of Windows aimed at me and not the average retard.

Try actually getting pro like the rest of us.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
Tldr: I'm an advanced user who is to damn lazy or cheap to get the version of Windows aimed at me and not the average retard.

Try actually getting pro like the rest of us.
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Yay, more of the silly victim-blaming that's so prevalent in every discussion in this new metro-era of Microsoft suck.

You do realize that Pro can only postpone updates, not avoid them, yes?
 
heatlesssun said:
Just pointing out that this means you never trusted them. This "Microsoft is stealing data." is a pretty old subject. There was even a movie made about it called "Antitrust". At any rate if they are it should be pretty easy for someone to prove. Because it's hard to believe that a billion plus Windows devices giving up all that data could be kept a secret forever.
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What you're failing to understand is that the burden of proof is on Microsoft, not end users. Microsoft is the party that's trying to push a product and data collection scheme while at the same time (apparently) intending to create positive buzz and mindshare about their new software.

If the datacollection they're doing is benign, why are they remaining so tight-lipped about what exactly it entails?
 
maademperor said:
that sucks. the nag and the bloat and I have one machine that tries to only show Windows 10 as available patches in windows update and now this. gotta change all my machines to not dl anything. Any good solutions for wmc users yet (specifically for watching recorded content without re-encoding)? that is my only real holdup on one or two machines.
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I haven't tried it, but it sounds like you can tell 7/8.1 that you don't want to upgrade
You can specify that you no longer want to receive notifications of the Windows 10 upgrade through the Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 settings pages.

If it's easy to say no when they make it a recommended update, then this isn't a big deal. But if it's not easy to decline (even if you have Auto update turned on), then I don't like this change (even if it doesn't affect me).
 
Telemetry is what NASA uses to know exactly what is going on with the things it sends out into space... and now what Microsoft uses to know exactly what you're doing with your Windows installation?

Obviously that has not even close to been confirmed, nor do I suspect they are actually doing this. I just wanted to make a snarky comment and notice the implications of using the term telemetry.
 
DPI said:
Yay, more of the silly victim-blaming that's so prevalent in every discussion in this new metro-era of Microsoft suck.

You do realize that Pro can only postpone updates, not avoid them, yes?
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I'm aware, I'm also aware that outside a corporate environment there is zero reason to permanently turn them off. So as a tech who has spent too many years fixing shit up machines because morons thought they were smarter than everyone else, get wrecked.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
I'm aware, I'm also aware that outside a corporate environment there is zero reason to permanently turn them off. So as a tech who has spent too many years fixing shit up machines because morons thought they were smarter than everyone else, get wrecked.
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I found that turning them off helped prevent my pc being infected with windows 10.
It also saved my pc from being hosed by prematurely released updates that were hastily withdrawn before being fixed.
 
Nenu said:
I found that turning them off helped prevent my pc being infected with windows 10.
It also saved my pc from being hosed by prematurely released updates that were hastily withdrawn before being fixed.
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I found through years of experience with thousands of pcs, that posts like this are pure hyperbolic bullshit.
 
Terpfen said:
The complaints about Windows 10's supposed privacy invasion seems to revolve around not understanding what telemetry actually is. You've been sending telemetry to Microsoft since Windows XP in the form of crash reports.
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You can turn off crash reports in gpedit if you have pro, which I do.
 
Encryption and turning off telementary is proof you are up to no good. They should make a law to enforce it for all you people.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
Tldr: I'm an advanced user who is to damn lazy or cheap to get the version of Windows aimed at me and not the average retard.

Try actually getting pro like the rest of us.
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What the fuck are you talking about? Home is the version intended for me.

What does Windows 10 Pro have over Home?
  • Assigned Access 8.1 - Useless in a home environment
  • BitLocker and EFS - Fuck off, I'll stick with TrueCrypt
  • Business Store - Cool, I can purchase SalesForce licences for my kids chocolate bar fundraisers.
  • Domain join and Group Policy Management - Yeah, because I run a windows server and purchase CALs for my fucking home.
  • Enterprise Data Protection - just LOL
  • Enterprise Mode Internet Explorer (EMIE) - For IE 8 compatibility, you know, just in case my hired management team for my personal IT department at my home doesn't want up update that 2005 web app.
  • Hyper-V - OK, could be useful for me in an off case, but VMware player will work too.
  • Microsoft Azure Active Directory join - again, not needed for a home environment.
  • Private Catalog - Cool, so I can lock down unauthorized users that aren't in my home form installing apps on my PC, even though they don't have access to it...

You also get a >128GB RAM limit on W10 Pro, but that isn't an issue nor will it be for a long time.

Tell me, how are any of the Pro features beneficial to me? I want to use windows to:
  • Play games
  • Read websites

I'm not interested in, and have major fucking issues with a company trying to force shit on my computer. If it ever comes to it where I don't have a choice (Win 7 no longer runs on new hardware) I'll drop Windows faster than Lance Armstrong got dropped by his own foundation.


Dekoth-E- said:
I'm aware, I'm also aware that outside a corporate environment there is zero reason to permanently turn them off. So as a tech who has spent too many years fixing shit up machines because morons thought they were smarter than everyone else, get wrecked.
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Seems to work fine for me...

C:\Windows\system32>wmic qfe list brief
Description FixComments HotFixID InstallDate InstalledBy InstalledOn Name ServicePackInEffect Status

Update KB971033 NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM 2/18/2012
Update KB958488 PC\PC 3/13/2012
Update KB976902 PC\Administrator 11/21/2010​
 
Occasionally a Windows Update causes boot loops, BSOD, instability, or other issues until they pull it and fix it. Because of that, I like to pick and choose updates. I refuse some updates (like KB3035583 and similar which added telemetry and CEIP to 7) because I can.

Windows 10 doesn't let you do these things, so it's not a viable OS for me. Adding in the telemetry and data mining, it becomes an even less viable OS for me. Don't need it, don't want it.
 
canna said:
What the fuck are you talking about? Home is the version intended for me.

What does Windows 10 Pro have over Home?
  • Assigned Access 8.1 - Useless in a home environment
  • BitLocker and EFS - Fuck off, I'll stick with TrueCrypt
  • Business Store - Cool, I can purchase SalesForce licences for my kids chocolate bar fundraisers.
  • Domain join and Group Policy Management - Yeah, because I run a windows server and purchase CALs for my fucking home.
  • Enterprise Data Protection - just LOL
  • Enterprise Mode Internet Explorer (EMIE) - For IE 8 compatibility, you know, just in case my hired management team for my personal IT department at my home doesn't want up update that 2005 web app.
  • Hyper-V - OK, could be useful for me in an off case, but VMware player will work too.
  • Microsoft Azure Active Directory join - again, not needed for a home environment.
  • Private Catalog - Cool, so I can lock down unauthorized users that aren't in my home form installing apps on my PC, even though they don't have access to it...

You also get a >128GB RAM limit on W10 Pro, but that isn't an issue nor will it be for a long time.

Tell me, how are any of the Pro features beneficial to me? I want to use windows to:
  • Play games
  • Read websites

I'm not interested in, and have major fucking issues with a company trying to force shit on my computer. If it ever comes to it where I don't have a choice (Win 7 no longer runs on new hardware) I'll drop Windows faster than Lance Armstrong got dropped by his own foundation.




Seems to work fine for me...

C:\Windows\system32>wmic qfe list brief
Description FixComments HotFixID InstallDate InstalledBy InstalledOn Name ServicePackInEffect Status

Update KB971033 NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM 2/18/2012
Update KB958488 PC\PC 3/13/2012
Update KB976902 PC\Administrator 11/21/2010​
Click to expand...

Thanks for proving why you are part of the problem.
 
The 'reservation' thing is a load. i had the update on two machines that I never reserved a copy selected by default and the EULA agreement is the only reason one of them is not 10. I'm sure that was a 'whoops' (yeah right) since its gone now. As they get more and more people to upgrade that creates an ever shrinking minority where they don't need to care about the illusion of choice.

Since they've gotten away with it essentially, you really think, even if you think Windows 10 is 'ok', they won't have ever worse ideas to force feed on people. The temptation is too great.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
Thanks for proving why you are part of the problem.
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Thanks for being articulate and not just spewing out some random unproven accusation. /sarcasm :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

So how am I part of the problem?:
  • Is it that I'm not willing to pay for features I won't use? I already listed the Pro vs Home W10 features, how do any of those pro features contribute to my experience?
  • Maybe it's a "problem" that I don't want Microsoft literally advertising on my desktop interface?
  • Perhaps it's a problem that I don't want "telemetry" (ie. spying on me) on my PC?
  • Ohhhh I know, it's a "problem" that I don't want MS to be able to push down any fucking update that they feel like to a PC that I 100% paid for and built? Honestly, I'm fine with security fixes, but not feature changes - I'll pick out what feature changes I want or don't want, TYVM.

If all of those things are "problems" then I'm glad that I obstruct and impede.
 
sad that MS has to resort to tricking people into downloading their new OS...I read this on another website and it's so true...

"Whenever updates of any kind do become available, make sure to first check your favorite news sites for indications of what these updates contain before installing them. Unfortunately the days of trusting Microsoft to be reasonably ethical are well and truly over"
 
canna said:
Thanks for being articulate and not just spewing out some random unproven accusation. /sarcasm :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

So how am I part of the problem?:
  • Is it that I'm not willing to pay for features I won't use? I already listed the Pro vs Home W10 features, how do any of those pro features contribute to my experience?
  • Maybe it's a "problem" that I don't want Microsoft literally advertising on my desktop interface?
  • Perhaps it's a problem that I don't want "telemetry" (ie. spying on me) on my PC?
  • Ohhhh I know, it's a "problem" that I don't want MS to be able to push down any fucking update that they feel like to a PC that I 100% paid for and built? Honestly, I'm fine with security fixes, but not feature changes - I'll pick out what feature changes I want or don't want, TYVM.

If all of those things are "problems" then I'm glad that I obstruct and impede.
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You are part of the problem because you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. Most of what you have posted its just flat out wrong or hyperbole. You posted a few features and basically proved you don't know the differences in Windows outside what someone posted on a website. So keep using retard edition and being angry, I don't care.

Bear in mind this comes from someone who still uses win 7 primarily and only use 10 on my laptops. I know the pros and cons of both and I haven't touched home edition Windows since 98. So no I'm not a 100% blind supporter of 10, but I recognize bullshit when I see it.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
You are part of the problem because you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. Most of what you have posted its just flat out wrong or hyperbole. You posted a few features and basically proved you don't know the differences in Windows outside what someone posted on a website. So keep using retard edition and being angry, I don't care.
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Elaborate on how I'm wrong. I listed specific features and explained why it doesn't benefit me, and in some cases works against my personal interests. Just saying "you're wrong" doesn't construct an argument or prove dick.

Specifically, HOW am I wrong? The ball is in your court.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
You posted a few features and basically proved you don't know the differences in Windows outside what someone posted on a website. So keep using retard edition and being angry, I don't care.
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Sucks I can't edit, but by the way I'm using the difference list POSTED BY FUCKING MICROSOFT. So yeah, I'm not using some random fucking list that "someone posted on a website". Tell me, Mr. Insider, what are the cool and useful features that Microsoft doesn't want me to know about for gaming and web browsing.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/WindowsForBusiness/Compare
 
I like how everyone who defends Microsoft is automatically an insider. Never mind the fact that I was one of the biggest opponents here against win 8 for years.

I'll keep it simple for you. The difference in win home and pro is one of them you have total control of your os and the ability to turn shit off or on and the other you don't. The fact that you don't seem to know that tells me you wouldn't know what to do with that anyhow. So you can cry about win 10 all you want, fact is most of your complaints are factually untrue. As for forced updates, quite honestly I'm tired of fixing machines loaded with malware from users like you who think they know more than they actually do. So honestly, keep win 7. I'm keeping it on my main, there is nothing wrong with that. The only issue I take is when people start spouting ignorant bullshit.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
I'll keep it simple for you. The difference in win home and pro is one of them you have total control of your os and the ability to turn shit off or on and the other you don't.

... I'm tired of fixing machines loaded with malware from users like you
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Except that even with Pro, you *don't* have anything approaching "total control". You still can't turn off all the telemetry (that's only available in Enterprise), and you still can't disable automatic updates (you can only delay them).
 
making applocker enterprise only is a sign of how dumb microsoft can be, that thing should be on every edition and actually used by default the same way google have started using selinux on android.

Or maybe microsoft like having a reputation of building insecure operating systems.
 
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