Windows 10 Warning: Anger At Microsoft Rises With Serious New Failure

Mazzspeed

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For me it also rewrites other drives even if they don’t have anything Windows related on them to boot only your Windows drive. Happens during major updates to all my SSDs
Well that's bullshit!

I admit, I no longer dual boot. But last time I did you were safe assuming you kept the two OS drives completely separate. Seems that's no longer the case?
 

aokman

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Well that's bullshit!

I admit, I no longer dual boot. But last time I did you were safe assuming you kept the two OS drives completely separate. Seems that's no longer the case?
Not sure if it is something related to Clover but I have had it happen to my OSX and Linux dedicated SSDs. I never did dual boot etc, completely seperate. I had BIOS profiles I would switch between that would change boot drives and overclocks etc at the same time.

Just google Windows 10 overwrites EFI :(
 

ManofGod

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As opposed to absolutely no privacy and "security"?
I will take my chances with literally any other OS on the planet, thanks.


You are pissing backwards with what you just stated in the quote above about Linux having pseudo privacy and security, yet now you say all of the OSes are pretty well equal...?
Just use what works for you, and vote with your wallet.

If you want Microsoft's 1984-level spyware 69'ing your data, that is completely your choice.
I suppose you are right on one aspect, in that at least with Microsoft, you know where you and your data stand, snake eye'd and completely back-ended; again, enjoy that corporate rimjob.
Cannot say I agree with you and probably never will. If you want to believe that by using Linux, your privacy is more there, that is your choice. However, I would like to believe that in many ways, I have a greater understanding of computers and computing in general than you, possibly, and understand that the OS you chose will not determine your level of privacy, overall.
 

ManofGod

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Not sure if it is something related to Clover but I have had it happen to my OSX and Linux dedicated SSDs. I never did dual boot etc, completely seperate. I had BIOS profiles I would switch between that would change boot drives and overclocks etc at the same time.

Just google Windows 10 overwrites EFI :(
Are you saying that you are running a hackintosh? Also, the last time I ran two OSes on one computer, and not dual booting, it worked without a hitch. (This was just a couple of months ago, with Ubuntu on one drive and Windows 10 on another.) Some will claim I am just defending Microsoft but, my experience is exactly what it was.
 

GoodBoy

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Nerds can be snobs...

Shit happens. 50 million lines of code, someone is gonna make a mistake and break something on a routine basis.

As long as it isn't something that stays broke for years, world going to keep on turning. If it DOES stay broke for years, well we humans had a good run while it lasted.

****
ok i'll be serious now. Software mistakes are like dna mistakes, it's one way it evolves. At some point someone is going to make a mistake and software will become alive. Then you better treat it right or the AI overlord could decide it doesn't need us anymore, and we all know how that will turn out....
 

Armenius

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Nerds can be snobs...

Shit happens. 50 million lines of code, someone is gonna make a mistake and break something on a routine basis.

As long as it isn't something that stays broke for years, world going to keep on turning. If it DOES stay broke for years, well we humans had a good run while it lasted.

****
ok i'll be serious now. Software mistakes are like dna mistakes, it's one way it evolves. At some point someone is going to make a mistake and software will become alive. Then you better treat it right or the AI overlord could decide it doesn't need us anymore, and we all know how that will turn out....
I've heard stories that there is code in the Windows kernel that is 30 years old that they can't get rid of because it breaks things and the software engineers don't know why.
 

d3athf1sh

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I've gamed on Linux in the past and it was acceptable but I was limited to Source games on Steam. I'm not interested in running Wine due to headaches and performance issues.
these days there's a thing called proton which is some form of wine but is being developed by valve and lets you play most steam games on linux. like you said some may not run as good but maybe one day, if enough people start using it, games will be optimized for, or have a patch from the devs to run on proton / linux. I mean really these days unless you like getting everything you do on your computer logged, the only thing you should be using windows for IS gaming. NOTHING ELSE.
 

d3athf1sh

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When trying to run an app that I already know the name of, I will type it into windows search so I don't have to navigate the menu. This was not working and I had to find all applications by hand, which is mildy annoying, but in no way a show stopper. Their menu is crap and I hate navigating it and always rely on just typing it in rather than finding it. For this to break due to some odd service that has nothing to do with my local files is really poor. Even if said service was down and they wanted to collect data for some reason, it still shouldn't stop people from using their computers normally.
what i did is pin the programs i use to start menu and go to "settings" "start" then turn off "show app list in start menu" and makes the start menu clean as a whistle. only thing that shows is stuff you pin.

and you can still start typing to find stuff you want even though there's no search box.

i also hide "search" on taskbar. my interface is pretty clean. I still like win7 better but at least it's better than it was after install.
 

Mazzspeed

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Cannot say I agree with you and probably never will. If you want to believe that by using Linux, your privacy is more there, that is your choice. However, I would like to believe that in many ways, I have a greater understanding of computers and computing in general than you, possibly, and understand that the OS you chose will not determine your level of privacy, overall.
When Windows is spying at OS level, of course the OS you choose will have an impact on overall privacy. There is absoultely no excuse for spying at OS level and no, Android does not spy at OS level.
 

Grimlaking

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When Windows is spying at OS level, of course the OS you choose will have an impact on overall privacy. There is absoultely no excuse for spying at OS level and no, Android does not spy at OS level.
I've yet to find a spot where windows 10 (Home version even) is spying in you that it didn't give you the option to know and turn off during the install. Now knowing to choose advanced options is one thing different. But if you are building your own systems I think you should be doing that.
 

Mazzspeed

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I've yet to find a spot where windows 10 (Home version even) is spying in you that it didn't give you the option to know and turn off during the install. Now knowing to choose advanced options is one thing different. But if you are building your own systems I think you should be doing that.
At the most basic level the Windows 10 'Customer Improvement Experience' that is doing all the spying cannot be disabled even when privacy settings are set to Basic.

Fact is, one OS is spying at OS level, the other is not. Meaning your choice of OS will most definitely have an impact on your online privacy.
 

Hagrid

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Cannot say I agree with you and probably never will. If you want to believe that by using Linux, your privacy is more there, that is your choice. However, I would like to believe that in many ways, I have a greater understanding of computers and computing in general than you, possibly, and understand that the OS you chose will not determine your level of privacy, overall.
Then you do not know much about computers obviously. Glad you are here for us to help you.
 

ManofGod

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Then you do not know much about computers obviously. Glad you are here for us to help you.
LOL! I know quite a bit and I also know that I will never stop learning. The more I know, the more I find I do not know and want to learn more. You opinion though, have fun.
 

Vermillion

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How many pieces of hardware does the OS need to support, how many different potential combinations are there on the market today?

While I'm not saying this is fine and dandy, far from it. Some credit is due for the fact that 99% of the time windows just works.
Yet that amount of hardware supported and backwards compatibility are a detriment to Windows as an OS in the long because the underlying code is so old now it goes back decades. Right now 1 in 4 computers are STILL Windows 7. They're all vulnerable to most if not ALL of these 99 exploits and they aren't getting patched unless they're ESU. For reference last weeks sudo exploit patch rolled out so quickly that I was patched on my Arch and Ubuntu LTS systems before I even read about the exploit in the news.

https://wccftech.com/end-of-an-era-1-in-4-computers-are-still-running-windows-7/
 

Red Falcon

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Cannot say I agree with you and probably never will. If you want to believe that by using Linux, your privacy is more there, that is your choice. However, I would like to believe that in many ways, I have a greater understanding of computers and computing in general than you, possibly, and understand that the OS you chose will not determine your level of privacy, overall.
That last part of your statement just proved, without a shadow of a doubt, that you don't know squat about operating systems, security, privacy, or any combination thereof.
But please, continue to believe whatever you want - ignorance is bliss, I suppose.

One thing in terms of Windows 10 security and privacy you should ask yourself, "Who watches the Watchmen?" ;)
 
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ManofGod

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That last part of your statement just proved, without a shadow of a doubt, that you don't know squat about operating systems, security, privacy, or any combination thereof.
Bullshit but hey, LOL anyways. :D

Edit: My guess is, you spend your day on Linux desktop thinking no one can touch you or your stuff well those in the know laugh at you. ;)
 

Red Falcon

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Edit: My guess is, you spend your day on Linux desktop thinking no one can touch you or your stuff well those in the know laugh at you. ;)
I never said Linux was 100% secure, and I will say that no OS on the planet is 100% secure - don't put words, or assumptions, into my mouth.
At least I know exactly what my OS is doing right down to the PID and ports in use.

It's a bit tougher to do that with Windows 10, since quite a bit of data being transmitted isn't reported by the OS to the user via conventional means, which means hidden (personal) data and telemetry is being sent back to Microsoft, aka, the Windows 10 OS is legit spyware and/or malware itself.
The fact that you still aren't realizing this, even after multiple individuals here are telling you the same thing, is extremely telling of how truly unwilling you are to learn.

Seriously, this shit has been in the public eye for over a half-decade now; how do you still not see or even recognize the basics of this??? o_O


EDIT: I didn't come here to get into a Windows vs. Linux debate with you, and you are welcome to use whatever OS you please, but I certainly am not going to idly accept shitposts like this from you:
LOL! Yeah, good luck with your pseudo privacy and security, instead.
The whole point of this thread, which you obviously missed, is that Microsoft is back-ending Windows 10 to the point that when something breaks on their end, it breaks the local search function on everyone else's end.
Doesn't that at least raise a few red flags with you?

EDIT #2: Oh, just read your sig; friendly reminder, if something is "free", you are the product.
 
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Mazzspeed

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EDIT #2: Oh, just read your sig; friendly reminder, if something is "free", you are the product.
You're the product when the item is coded and marketed by a large multinational organization answerable to shareholders and one of the biggest contributors to the issues surrounding capitalism today. There are free operating systems out there where you aren't the product and they're really bloody good operating systems. ;)

Otherwise, 100% agreed!
 

Red Falcon

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You're the product when the item is coded and marketed by a large multinational organization answerable to shareholders and one of the biggest contributors to the issues surrounding capitalism today. There are free operating systems out there where you aren't the product and they're really bloody good operating systems. ;)

Otherwise, 100% agreed!
Very good point, agreed! (y)
 

Grimlaking

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So far every complaint I've come across of windows doing "shady" things with your personal data and use of the software... can be turned off at the time of install and after.. though at install I think is more effective.

I'm FAR from saying it isn't doing shady things.

At least with windows you have someone to hold accountable however ephemeral that is. With open source software if someone manages to sneak in a bit of bad code that does x... will anyone know?

Sure a lot of coders might or might not look at it. It's the open source crapshoot. On the same token you wind up with open source advancements as well.
 

Shoganai

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"Can't believe this! No search. Broken. What?!"

I hear it's because of something down on the Internet.

"That's it! You mean, I can't search my LOCAL OS because of some mistake on the Internet?!!? I've had it with Microsoft!"

I've been running Linux as my desktop for 20+ years. It does the job.

"No way. I'm not leaving Windows."

Well, there ya go...
No thanks.
 

Mazzspeed

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So far every complaint I've come across of windows doing "shady" things with your personal data and use of the software... can be turned off at the time of install and after.. though at install I think is more effective.
Do it and then check all data throughput using Wireshark. I can assure you Windows is still phoning home using encrypted packets from hidden partitions.

You're not going to convince me that data doesn't contain personal information when MS are so hellbent on ensuring Windows keeps phoning home.
 

Red Falcon

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Do it and then check all data throughput using Wireshark. I can assure you Windows is still phoning home using encrypted packets from hidden partitions.

You're not going to convince me that data doesn't contain personal information when MS are so hellbent on ensuring Windows keeps phoning home.
I've done just that, and with monitoring data outside of the workstations themselves with 3rd party tools.
With the OS sitting idle (or active), literally nothing happening and 0% network activity showing in the OS, the network connection is lit up like a Christmas tree.

All other OSes show normal activity on the same system/setup/network/etc., except for Windows 10.
On an artificially-induced high latency network connection, Windows 10 tanks the connection completely due to the numerous simultaneous connections it is constantly making, all while sitting idle no less.

The behavior is near universal on new installs, old installs, services enabled, services disabled, wired connection, wireless connection, 1703 through 1909 - it doesn't matter, gobs of network connections are continuously being made and transferring data, all to IPs that are owned by Microsoft or Microsoft services.
Disconnecting or powering off the workstation causes all of the connections to end, so it is purely coming from Windows 10, regardless of the workstation it is running on.

I will add that all OS updates have been installed on these systems, and whether or not the OS itself is checking for updates, or if checking for updates is manually invoked, the OS itself will report that network activity, so it's not like that functionality is broken.
Microsoft shows the user the data that it allows you to see, and nothing more.



Do you own your OS, or does your OS own you?
The answer is Microsoft, as they own both. ;)
 

Mazzspeed

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I've done just that, and with monitoring data outside of the workstations themselves with 3rd party tools.
With the OS sitting idle (or active), literally nothing happening and 0% network activity showing in the OS, the network connection is lit up like a Christmas tree.

All other OSes show normal activity on the same system/setup/network/etc., except for Windows 10.
On an artificially-induced high latency network connection, Windows 10 tanks the connection completely due to the numerous simultaneous connections it is constantly making, all while sitting idle no less.

The behavior is near universal on new installs, old installs, services enabled, services disabled, wired connection, wireless connection, 1703 through 1909 - it doesn't matter, gobs of network connections are continuously being made and transferring data, all to IPs that are owned by Microsoft or Microsoft services.
Disconnecting or powering off the workstation causes all of the connections to end, so it is purely coming from Windows 10, regardless of the workstation it is running on.

I will add that all OS updates have been installed on these systems, and whether or not the OS itself is checking for updates, or if checking for updates is manually invoked, the OS itself will report that network activity, so it's not like that functionality is broken.
Microsoft shows the user the data that it allows you to see, and nothing more.



Do you own your OS, or does your OS own you?
The answer is Microsoft, as they own both. ;)
100% matches my own findings.
 

Grimlaking

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I've done just that, and with monitoring data outside of the workstations themselves with 3rd party tools.
With the OS sitting idle (or active), literally nothing happening and 0% network activity showing in the OS, the network connection is lit up like a Christmas tree.

All other OSes show normal activity on the same system/setup/network/etc., except for Windows 10.
On an artificially-induced high latency network connection, Windows 10 tanks the connection completely due to the numerous simultaneous connections it is constantly making, all while sitting idle no less.

The behavior is near universal on new installs, old installs, services enabled, services disabled, wired connection, wireless connection, 1703 through 1909 - it doesn't matter, gobs of network connections are continuously being made and transferring data, all to IPs that are owned by Microsoft or Microsoft services.
Disconnecting or powering off the workstation causes all of the connections to end, so it is purely coming from Windows 10, regardless of the workstation it is running on.

I will add that all OS updates have been installed on these systems, and whether or not the OS itself is checking for updates, or if checking for updates is manually invoked, the OS itself will report that network activity, so it's not like that functionality is broken.
Microsoft shows the user the data that it allows you to see, and nothing more.



Do you own your OS, or does your OS own you?
The answer is Microsoft, as they own both. ;)
That is interesting. Wonder what I break if I turn those port connections off to those destinations.
 

Red Falcon

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That is interesting. Wonder what I break if I turn those port connections off to those destinations.
It would be worth trying, and not to make excuses or anything, I just haven't had time for thorough testing on doing just that to confirm the results one way or the other.
I am interested in seeing how things are affected, though, especially on the OS and services, and if the user experience or other data flows and communication changes on it, or even if other IP addresses and/or ports are used in place of said blocked connections.

I have also confirmed this behavior with Windows 10 on both physical workstations and Type-1 VMs (haven't tried Type-2 VMs, though), so the physical nature of the system Windows 10 is running on doesn't seem to matter with the connections it is generating and the data it is transferring.
 

Red Falcon

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Just use Simplewall, which is found at github, if you want to block those connections.
The fact that 3rd party tools to prevent Windows 10 from doing this should show you how unsecure it is, and how little control end-users have over it.
Regardless, who would actively want that part of the OS running on their system (purely for Microsoft's benefit), and if not for system security and the end-user's control's sake, just to alleviate unnecessary network activity and CPU/RAM usage, then?
 

ManofGod

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The fact that 3rd party tools to prevent Windows 10 from doing this should show you how unsecure it is, and how little control end-users have over it.
Regardless, who would actively want that part of the OS running on their system (purely for Microsoft's benefit), and if not for system security and the end-user's control's sake, just to alleviate unnecessary network activity and CPU/RAM usage, then?
Guess those third party Linux firewalls just show how insecure Linux really is, after all. :D
 
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Red Falcon

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Dude, grow the freak up, use it or do not but, stop your whining otherwise. Guess those third party Linux firewalls just show how insecure Linux really is, after all. :D
Outside of China's State-sponsored *NIX distros, I don't see too many that are constantly and knowingly reporting user data, and telemetry, back to a megacorp.
Also, heatlesssun and I could get into the Windows vs. Linux debut at times, but at least he was respectful towards others with differing views, and I will say that he definitely knew what he was talking about with all things Microsoft-related at a professional level, and could even admit when there were flaws or things that legitimately needed improvement on Microsoft's end regarding their OSes and software; even if we couldn't fully agree, I did respect and admire him for those aspects.

I cannot, however, say those same things about you.
 

ManofGod

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I guess using desktop shortcuts and taskbar pins is also old-fashioned now?
You cannot say the same thing about Me and that says what? Not really much of anything and despite your opinions, I do have extensive, practical knowledge of computing and OSes, not everything but then, I would never know everything.

You? Who knows, since I doubt very much you respected him.
 

Red Falcon

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You cannot say the same thing about Me and that says what? Not really much of anything and despite your opinions, I do have extensive, practical knowledge of computing and OSes, not everything but then, I would never know everything.
I'm guessing you meant to quote me and not Armenius with that response...
Anyways, you keep saying you have "extensive" knowledge on everything, yet everything you state continuously shows the polar opposite (especially with your "willingness to learn"), almost bordering on cult-level enthusiasm towards Windows 10 and your anti-Linux rhetoric, even though you've proven nothing on the latter other than you don't like Linux "just because."

There is a clear issue, as presented in this thread, with Windows 10, and you are basically flat-out ignoring that, even though it was the whole point of the thread.

You? Who knows, since I doubt very much you respected him.
No, I did respect heatlesssun, at least as a fellow forum member - it took us a few years and quite a few heated debates, but we did come to a friendly understanding the last few years he was on here; I feel bad for our earlier battles, and I'm glad things worked out the way they did, though it does suck that he was banned.
I miss his threads, input, and view-points towards both Windows and Linux for each's pros and cons, especially since he worked in an environment that was running on pure Microsoft products, and I (and many others on here) learned quite a bit from him and his vast experiences.

See, it's comments like that, where you assume you know everything about something, and yet could not possibly know. (you know heatlesssun and I's personal history on here, really???)
You, on the other hand, are acting like a psychopath (or sociopath) and obviously do not give a fuck who you insult or attempt to verbally hurt, and it is not appreciated.
 
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ManofGod

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I'm guessing you meant to quote me and not Armenius with that response...
Anyways, you keep saying you have "extensive" knowledge on everything, yet everything you state continuously shows the polar opposite (especially with your "willingness to learn"), almost bordering on cult-level enthusiasm towards Windows 10 and your anti-Linux rhetoric, even though you've proven nothing on the latter other than you don't like Linux "just because."

There is a clear issue, as presented in this thread, with Windows 10, and you are basically flat-out ignoring that, even though it was the whole point of the thread.


No, I did respect heatlesssun, at least as a fellow forum member - it took us a few years and quite a few heated debates, but we did come to a friendly understanding the last few years he was on here; I feel bad for our earlier battles, and I'm glad things worked out the way they did, though it does suck that he was banned.
I miss his threads, input, and view-points towards both Windows and Linux for each's pros and cons, especially since he worked in an environment that was running on pure Microsoft products, and I (and many others on here) learned quite a bit from him and his vast experiences.

See, it's comments like that, where you assume you know everything about something, and yet could not possibly know. (you know heatlesssun and I's personal history on here, really???)
You, on the other hand, are acting like a psychopath (or sociopath) and obviously do not give a fuck who you insult or attempt to verbally hurt, and it is not appreciated.
Insult? Sure thing dude, sure thing. Also, I have yet to see anything that says I hate any OS of any kind, regardless of your opinion to the contrary. Perhaps you could learn something by actually using that simplewall instead of complaining about this and that. As for my extensive knowledge, it is there and functional, whether you chose to believe me or not. Also, I could not have extensive, applicable and practical knowledge without my desire to learn and willingness to do so. That is why I chose not to bash OSes well over 15 years ago and instead, enjoyed them all for what they can accomplish, which is at least in part, my own personal enjoyment.

As for the original topic, I decided not to bother with click bait stuff from Forbes, which pretty much is all they seem to provide when it comes to Windows, any version. And I was quite serious in saying that essentially, if you have to use a firewall with Linux, it is obviously insecure as well, based upon your opinion of using Simplewall with Windows.

Edit: Oh, and well I am thinking about it, any idea where I can get NO DVD cracks nowadays? I still have some games on disc that I do not like shuffling to be able to play. However, I deleted all my saved cracks a while back and cannot find them anymore online.
 

Red Falcon

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Insult? Sure thing dude, sure thing. That is why I chose not to bash OSes well over 15 years ago and instead, enjoyed them all for what they can accomplish, which is at least in part, my own personal enjoyment.
This is your first post in this thread, post #97:
LOL! Yeah, good luck with your pseudo privacy and security, instead.
So if you aren't bashing Linux in that post... what was your point?

And I was quite serious in saying that essentially, if you have to use a firewall with Linux, it is obviously insecure as well, based upon your opinion of using Simplewall with Windows.
The point of a software firewall is primarily to keep things out, not specifically to keep them in.
Just like having a lock on your door is meant to keep criminals from breaking into your home and stealing your belongings (Linux), as opposed to having a lock on your door to keep the criminals already living in your home from stealing your belongings and leaving with them (Windows).

Your posts are also extremely hypocritical, as your opinion continuously shifts to fit your ever-changing narrative.
Again, this is the behavior of a psychopath/sociopath.

Edit: Oh, and well I am thinking about it, any idea where I can get NO DVD cracks nowadays? I still have some games on disc that I do not like shuffling to be able to play. However, I deleted all my saved cracks a while back and cannot find them anymore online.
What does this have to do with anything???
I don't even...


EDIT: I am going to use this forum's firewall, and choose to ignore you, now - bye bye.
 
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Mazzspeed

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Guess those third party Linux firewalls just show how insecure Linux really is, after all. :D
Generally speaking, in corporate environments the core Windows network is always protected by secure Linux servers facing the internet. You never just let Windows have full access to the internet. Sadly, most Mom and Dad, Grandma and Grandpa types don't have such hardware in place and these are the people Microsoft is exploiting for personal information.
 

ManofGod

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This is your first post in this thread, post #97:

So if you aren't bashing Linux in that post... what was your point?


The point of a software firewall is primarily to keep things out, not specifically to keep them in.
Just like having a lock on your door is meant to keep criminals from breaking into your home and stealing your belongings (Linux), as opposed to having a lock on your door to keep the criminals already living in your home from stealing your belongings and leaving with them (Windows).

Your posts are also extremely hypocritical, as your opinion continuously shifts to fit your ever-changing narrative.
Again, this is the behavior of a psychopath/sociopath.


What does this have to do with anything???
I don't even...


EDIT: I am going to use this forum's firewall, and choose to ignore you, now - bye bye.
No, I am telling you that your sense of privacy and security, just because you are using Linux, is not real at best. I wish we could say that those in the know do not know what they are doing but, those in the know make us look like rank amateurs. Also, my opinion does not change to fit an ever changing narrative, you just simply need to read what I am actually posting, not want you think I am saying.

Have fun, bye bye.
 

Mazzspeed

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2,543
No, I am telling you that your sense of privacy and security, just because you are using Linux, is not real at best. I wish we could say that those in the know do not know what they are doing but, those in the know make us look like rank amateurs. Also, my opinion does not change to fit an ever changing narrative, you just simply need to read what I am actually posting, not want you think I am saying.

Have fun, bye bye.
Assuming you avoid Facebook and Google, use a VPN and Firefox with Cookies, Tracking Miners and Finger printers blocked, as well as avoid placing personal information on the internet and use secure email solutions - Considering the fact that Linux isn't sharing personal information with the mothership, there's no reason why you couldn't remain under the radar as far as privacy and security is concerned.
 
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