Windows 10 users: Get ready to be bugged about creating a Microsoft Account

MrGuvernment

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Not suprising....(another reason why I am glad nix is my main OS!)


Windows 10 users: Get ready to be bugged about creating a Microsoft Account

Read more: https://www.tweaktown.com/news/9772...d-about-creating-microsoft-account/index.html

As Windows Latest reports, a change which has been in testing is supposedly coming through to arrive for the release version of Windows 10 with the next cumulative update for the OS (in May 2024).
What it means is that when you go into Settings, if you are working with a local Windows 10 install, there'll be a bar at the top of the panel - complete with a warning exclamation mark - telling you to sign in to a Microsoft Account.
In the case of Windows Latest, the bar further reminds them that without a Microsoft Account, files won't be backed up (so yes, this is pushing OneDrive too). Of course, it doesn't take into consideration that you might have your own backup solution (hopefully that's the case, anyway - if not, then do something about that, and fast).
 
The argument "Microsoft would argue that some users may not know about the benefits of a Microsoft Account" falls flat on its face the moment you think how well Microsoft is trying to hide the option of local accounts. You have to have some computer skills to find it or know where it is, so most likely you also know what "benefits" M$ Account brings. We know AND WE DO NOT CARE. My account stays local, as it should.

Apparently the nag banner can be disabled, ar least on Windows 10 by disabling "suggested content".
 
It appears the solution is to simply ignore it. I truly wish Microsoft would stop pushing this garbage, as I always find myself bearing the brunt of family and friends' complaints whenever issues like this arise. I regret becoming the "computer guy" in the family.
 
The argument "Microsoft would argue that some users may not know about the benefits of a Microsoft Account" falls flat on its face the moment you think how well Microsoft is trying to hide the option of local accounts. You have to have some computer skills to find it or know where it is, so most likely you also know what "benefits" M$ Account brings. We know AND WE DO NOT CARE. My account stays local, as it should.

Apparently the nag banner can be disabled, ar least on Windows 10 by disabling "suggested content".
But then you also have to remember that Microsoft lost a lawsuit when somebody who had a local account, enabled BitLocker, lost their key and locked themselves out of the system destroying all their data.
Which a Microsoft account, or Google account, would have prevented as they could then have directed them to the correct location to undo that.

So while requiring an account is stupid, the lawsuits they face are equally stupid, and sadly, policy is usually driven by those stupid and frivolous lawsuits.
 
But then you also have to remember that Microsoft lost a lawsuit when somebody who had a local account, enabled BitLocker, lost their key and locked themselves out of the system destroying all their data.
Which a Microsoft account, or Google account, would have prevented as they could then have directed them to the correct location to undo that.

So while requiring an account is stupid, the lawsuits they face are equally stupid, and sadly, policy is usually driven by those stupid and frivolous lawsuits.

What? How on earth did that happen? How is that microsofts problem if someone gets locked out of their PC?
 
What? How on earth did that happen? How is that microsofts problem if someone gets locked out of their PC?
Probably got argued that the user had no idea there was no recovery possibility without an online account made prior to it for a backup of the key.
 
Probably got argued that the user had no idea there was no recovery possibility without an online account made prior to it for a backup of the key.

But still, that should be the users responsibility to figure out these things. As much as I hate Microsoft, in this case I say they did nothing wrong. At least with the little information I have now about this case.
 
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But still, that should be the users responsibility to figure out these things. As much as I hate Microsoft, in this case I day they did nothing wrong. At least with the little information I have now about this case.
I started googling around and seems to be lots of random outrage about there not being a recovery method if you lose the key and dont use their online account to back it up. Apparently there are also cases of the tpm system causing it to randomly need you to reinput your key. Seems to have come enabled on pre-builds from some companies meaning users were ignorant to it from the start. I might have to look more into this later, seems interesting.
 
Yeah, creating a Microsoft account will never happen for me.

If they make it a hard requirement, I will just stop using Windows all together.

I already use Linux for 99% of what I do when I am not at work. (Sadly, Windows/Office is so entrenched in the corporate world that I don't think it can ever be dislodged)

Windows stays on my main machine as a dual boot just for games, because despite Linux GPU drivers, Proton and DXVK getting better all the time, there is still a significant performance penalty from running games in Linux, both natively ported titles, and "compatibility layer" ones. And even with a 4090, at my desired settings of 4k Ultra, without scaling or fake frames, I'm always on the hairy edge of acceptable performance.

But if they push too hard and enforce the Microsoft account (or make some feature I feel I need dependent on it) then I'll just abandon the OS all together.

Computers are local machines first, and should always remain local machines first. Integrating them to some cloud external tom my network will never happen. I'll stop using tech all together before I ever accept this. It's bad enough we are forced to have an external cloud sign-in for our phones. If I could undo that I would. I want my phone to be a local machine too.

Forcing this issue on a computer is a bright effing red line for me.
 
I started googling around and seems to be lots of random outrage about there not being a recovery method if you lose the key and dont use their online account to back it up. Apparently there are also cases of the tpm system causing it to randomly need you to reinput your key. Seems to have come enabled on pre-builds from some companies meaning users were ignorant to it from the start. I might have to look more into this later, seems interesting.

I have this issue. I own a (non grey market, paid $130 for it once upon a time) license for the Windows 10 install on my testbench machine.

When I moved the windows install from a dual boot bare metal into a VM on the same hardware, it decided to un-activate itself.

There seems to be little recourse to fix it without without having the key registered to a Microsoft account. I can't even contact support without having a Microsoft account. (there is still an 800 number, but that is supposedly only for business/enterprise users)

I bought a copy of Office 2021 a couple of years ago (because I did not want to create a Microsoft account or subscribe) only to find that the only way to redeem the license key is to use a Microsoft account and register the license key to the microsoft account.

I wound up returning the Office 2021 license, and now I just don't use Microsoft Office at home anymore. LibreOffice is not as good, but it will have to do.

It's total fucking bullshit if you ask me.

I WILL NOT be forced into cloud accounts. Not now, not ever. And I will take increasingly extreme measures to avoid that, including, - if I can't make it work any other way - just not using anything Microsoft ever again.
 
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On the positive side however, at least in recent Professional installs it appears you can uninstall Edge, Cortana and Co-pilot from the add/remove programs settings.

I hope this stays that way. This is the way it should have been form the beginning.

(Actually no, those things should have been opt-in, not opt-out. But at least this is an improvement over Microsofts rape mindset disregarding user consent and taking an "you'll eat it and you'll like it" approach.

I've increasingly come to follow Louis Rossman, and he gets very many things right.
 
Forcing this issue on a computer is a bright effing red line for me.
I agree with you, even though I have an MS account, so I can transfer licenses. But sadly, you and the other guys who posted in this thread are a minuscule percentage of total Windows home users.
 
What? How on earth did that happen? How is that microsofts problem if someone gets locked out of their PC?
Lawyers find a way to make everything somebody else's problem, it's some Faustian gift I assume.
But the amount of BS lawsuits thrown at Microsoft just because the average PC user can lose a battle of wits with a bag of sand is astounding.
 
"MS" works better :p.
Multiple Sclerosis?
Yeah, creating a Microsoft account will never happen for me.

If they make it a hard requirement, I will just stop using Windows all together.

I already use Linux for 99% of what I do when I am not at work. (Sadly, Windows/Office is so entrenched in the corporate world that I don't think it can ever be dislodged)

Windows stays on my main machine as a dual boot just for games, because despite Linux GPU drivers, Proton and DXVK getting better all the time, there is still a significant performance penalty from running games in Linux, both natively ported titles, and "compatibility layer" ones. And even with a 4090, at my desired settings of 4k Ultra, without scaling or fake frames, I'm always on the hairy edge of acceptable performance.

But if they push too hard and enforce the Microsoft account (or make some feature I feel I need dependent on it) then I'll just abandon the OS all together.

Computers are local machines first, and should always remain local machines first. Integrating them to some cloud external tom my network will never happen. I'll stop using tech all together before I ever accept this. It's bad enough we are forced to have an external cloud sign-in for our phones. If I could undo that I would. I want my phone to be a local machine too.

Forcing this issue on a computer is a bright effing red line for me.
I can use Windows just fine on my Microsoft account without connecting to the internet. You can also disable and uninstall OneDrive completely. Never needing to enter a Windows product key again manually is really nice.
 
I still use a local account and it still has not created any issues for me.

Fake outrage over a prompt inside windows settings is stupid. Why are you spending so much time within Settings anyway to the point that you get offended by this? If anything, isn't that where a prompt like this should live?

And it's always ironic that 99% of the people who complain about a Microsoft account have been carrying phones around in their pocket for 15+ years logged into their Google/Apple accounts from day #1. If you use a Chromebook or Apple laptop, you also likely jumped on the account bandwagon a LONG time ago also. So it's kind of insane to frame this as a Microsoft issue when in reality Microsoft is/was one of the last holdouts. Why hasn't everyone been complaining about accounts for the last 15+ years, when the complaining might have actually made a difference? Why is it only a catastrophe when Microsoft does it, decades after people happily allowed the behavior to become normalized?

It really seems like it's mainly just people jumping on the opportunity to pat themselves on the back about Linux. 4% market share, the year of the Linux Desktop is finally here! (Let's pretend that all Distros are the same so we don't spoil the party). Using Linux because you don't want to use a Microsoft account is like only using a landline because you hate cellphones. Congratulations, but no one cares, and society is more than happy to move on without you.
 
10 and 11 already do this, its not new, but it also doesnt stop you from just using the computer.
Yes, Windows currently harasses you about signing into a Microsoft account in the settings on occasion, but that can easily be ignored. What I'm assuming here is that they're just making the nags for it increasingly obnoxious, which is a very Microsoft thing to do. If there comes a time when you CAN'T use a computer without a local account, then that'll be a serious issue. Alternatively, you can also just have a throwaway Microsoft account that you just sign into the computer with then create a local account once it's set up, and then delete the other account. I can't see Microsoft ever completely removing the option to have a local account. They're just making it more annoying to do so.
 
Not suprising....(another reason why I am glad nix is my main OS!)


Windows 10 users: Get ready to be bugged about creating a Microsoft Account

Read more: https://www.tweaktown.com/news/9772...d-about-creating-microsoft-account/index.html
Yeah, creating a Microsoft account will never happen for me.

If they make it a hard requirement, I will just stop using Windows all together.

I already use Linux for 99% of what I do when I am not at work. (Sadly, Windows/Office is so entrenched in the corporate world that I don't think it can ever be dislodged)

Windows stays on my main machine as a dual boot just for games, because despite Linux GPU drivers, Proton and DXVK getting better all the time, there is still a significant performance penalty from running games in Linux, both natively ported titles, and "compatibility layer" ones. And even with a 4090, at my desired settings of 4k Ultra, without scaling or fake frames, I'm always on the hairy edge of acceptable performance.

But if they push too hard and enforce the Microsoft account (or make some feature I feel I need dependent on it) then I'll just abandon the OS all together.

Computers are local machines first, and should always remain local machines first. Integrating them to some cloud external tom my network will never happen. I'll stop using tech all together before I ever accept this. It's bad enough we are forced to have an external cloud sign-in for our phones. If I could undo that I would. I want my phone to be a local machine too.

Forcing this issue on a computer is a bright effing red line for me.
Do you have a motherboard capable of dual GPUs? I run Windows 11 in a kvm/qemu/libvirt VM and pass an AMD RX6800 to the VM. Really seems to get almost native performance (I can't tell the difference). My Linux side has an old Nvidia 1070. Not having to reboot to play a game is really quite nice. I've got one of those ultrawide Samsungs so I normally dedicate half the screen to the VM and the other half to Linux.
 
Do you have a motherboard capable of dual GPUs? I run Windows 11 in a kvm/qemu/libvirt VM and pass an AMD RX6800 to the VM. Really seems to get almost native performance (I can't tell the difference). My Linux side has an old Nvidia 1070. Not having to reboot to play a game is really quite nice. I've got one of those ultrawide Samsungs so I normally dedicate half the screen to the VM and the other half to Linux.

Does a iGPU and a normal GPU count ?
 
Do you have a motherboard capable of dual GPUs? I run Windows 11 in a kvm/qemu/libvirt VM and pass an AMD RX6800 to the VM. Really seems to get almost native performance (I can't tell the difference). My Linux side has an old Nvidia 1070. Not having to reboot to play a game is really quite nice. I've got one of those ultrawide Samsungs so I normally dedicate half the screen to the VM and the other half to Linux.

I have considered doing a pass-through setup over the years, but never really got around to it. This was funnily enough what I was trying to do on my testbench, when Windows10 un-activated itself (mentioned above)

My current Threadripper 3960x would be very well suited to something like that, but it is getting ever closer toward that golden age where it might be time to upgrade, and I'm not sure I want to put all of that effort into passing through stuff and getting it working, only to soon need to upgrade (and not be able to find a system with both sufficient PCIe lanes, AND top notch low threaded performance to support gaming and have to reverse it all.

I may look into it again at some point, but I have to admit that rebooting clean, and having all system resources dedicated to a game with as little as possible running in the background when I go to play it appeals to me.

It saddens me that due to the death of HEDT having the perfect best of all worlds desktop is no longer possible.

Short version: Modern Threadrippers and Xeons perform very poorly in lightly threaded loads like games. The badass $5,000 Threadripper 7980x in a $1,800 motherboard is generally outperformed by a $200 Ryzen 5 7600 in a $150 motherboard in games.. This didn't used to be the case with older HEDT platforms.

This is for two reasons. One being CCD layout and poor NUMA scheduler/core optimization for games on modern Threadripper and Xeon platforms (as this is not their priority). It is also due tot he fact that unlike with DDR4 and earlier, with DDR5, Registered and Unbuffered DIMM's are no longer pin compatible. So a motherboard can only offer one or the other. The practical outcome of this is that for newer Threadrippers and Xeons your only choice is Registered ECC, with latency penalties that slow everything down compared to high clocked unregistered, non-ECC RAM.

In other words, these systems are true Workstation machines now (and they perform very well at it) but what we used to call HEDT - the enthusiast best of both worlds setup is essentially dead.

If I am honest, my 3960x is still perfectly fine for my day-to-day work, browsing and things like that. Only reason I'd consider upgrading would be for greater lightly threaded performance required for games. Since I'd have to use a KVM with passthrough anyway, why not just buy the new parts, and instead of a drop-in upgrade, spend a little bit more on another case and PSU and just build a dedicated game machine and run it in parallel? That is more and more starting to sound like the appropriate approach.

After all, it is much cheaper to stay current if all you need to do is upgrade consumer hardware every 2-4 years, and not workstation class stuff. It might actually SAVE money after the initial investment/setup.
 
Do you have a motherboard capable of dual GPUs? I run Windows 11 in a kvm/qemu/libvirt VM and pass an AMD RX6800 to the VM. Really seems to get almost native performance (I can't tell the difference). My Linux side has an old Nvidia 1070. Not having to reboot to play a game is really quite nice. I've got one of those ultrawide Samsungs so I normally dedicate half the screen to the VM and the other half to Linux.
I just use Steam and Proton for windows games, and for me performance is still all there, I can do Apex Legends and max out at 144FPS as I could in windows. Most other games I play though, have linux versions, Steam games, Civilization. On one hand, it almost makes it easier for me to choose what to play, i dont buy AAA titles anyways and havent for some years.
 
I think it does. I, luckily, had a motherboard that allowed dual graphics cards (8 pci lanes to each) so I was able to get an extra card and pass it to the VM.

So is a i9 14900k iGPU fast enough for this ?

I use my RTX 4090 of course for gaming.
 
I have considered doing a pass-through setup over the years, but never really got around to it. This was funnily enough what I was trying to do on my testbench, when Windows10 un-activated itself (mentioned above)

My current Threadripper 3960x would be very well suited to something like that, but it is getting ever closer toward that golden age where it might be time to upgrade, and I'm not sure I want to put all of that effort into passing through stuff and getting it working, only to soon need to upgrade (and not be able to find a system with both sufficient PCIe lanes, AND top notch low threaded performance to support gaming and have to reverse it all.

I may look into it again at some point, but I have to admit that rebooting clean, and having all system resources dedicated to a game with as little as possible running in the background when I go to play it appeals to me.

It saddens me that due to the death of HEDT having the perfect best of all worlds desktop is no longer possible.

Short version: Modern Threadrippers and Xeons perform very poorly in lightly threaded loads like games. The badass $5,000 Threadripper 7980x in a $1,800 motherboard is generally outperformed by a $200 Ryzen 5 7600 in a $150 motherboard in games.. This didn't used to be the case with older HEDT platforms.

This is for two reasons. One being CCD layout and poor NUMA scheduler/core optimization for games on modern Threadripper and Xeon platforms (as this is not their priority). It is also due tot he fact that unlike with DDR4 and earlier, with DDR5, Registered and Unbuffered DIMM's are no longer pin compatible. So a motherboard can only offer one or the other. The practical outcome of this is that for newer Threadrippers and Xeons your only choice is Registered ECC, with latency penalties that slow everything down compared to high clocked unregistered, non-ECC RAM.

In other words, these systems are true Workstation machines now (and they perform very well at it) but what we used to call HEDT - the enthusiast best of both worlds setup is essentially dead.

If I am honest, my 3960x is still perfectly fine for my day-to-day work, browsing and things like that. Only reason I'd consider upgrading would be for greater lightly threaded performance required for games. Since I'd have to use a KVM with passthrough anyway, why not just buy the new parts, and instead of a drop-in upgrade, spend a little bit more on another case and PSU and just build a dedicated game machine and run it in parallel? That is more and more starting to sound like the appropriate approach.

After all, it is much cheaper to stay current if all you need to do is upgrade consumer hardware every 2-4 years, and not workstation class stuff. It might actually SAVE money after the initial investment/setup.
I have and AM4 motherboard that MSI did a bios updated to be able to handle the AMD 5950x and I figured that'd be the route for me. Pickup another graphics card and dedicate half the cores to Linux and the other half to the VM. It all worked wonderfully well and 5950 isn't very far behind the 7950 in performance.
 
So is a i9 14900k iGPU fast enough for this ?

I use my RTX 4090 of course for gaming.
I've not kept up on the Intel processors so I don't know. Is the iGPU currently good enough for your normal computing? If so I think you'd be able to use it. How many cores do you have to work with. I've got an AMD 5950 so I've got 16 cores to play with. I just give Linux 8 and the VM 8.
 
So is a i9 14900k iGPU fast enough for this ?

I use my RTX 4090 of course for gaming.
I've not kept up on the Intel processors so I don't know. Is the iGPU currently good enough for your normal computing? If so I think you'd be able to use it. How many cores do you have to work with. I've got an AMD 5950 so I've got 16 cores to play with. I just give Linux 8 and the VM 8.


I don't have experience with modern Intel chips. Could you pass through the DGPU to the guest, and use the iGPU for the host at the same time?
 
What? How on earth did that happen? How is that microsofts problem if someone gets locked out of their PC?
Because Microsoft are underhanded and manipulative when it comes to M$ accounts while quietly enabling bitlocker in the background, couple that with the fact that the vasi majority of Windows users are average types that have no idea what a 'non limited account' even is: And you have a recipe for disaster. All they know is, they went to boot their PC one morning and now their normal password doesn't work.

I see it all the time.
 
is just as "harassing" as apples "sign into icloud" message in their settings panel. big friggin whoop. yes the "you CANT use it" would be an issue.
At least with Windows, it's 100% functional without being signed into anything. I'd argue it's MORE functional without having to deal with all their crap. Using an Apple product without an Apple ID is almost pointless. Having said that, Macs aren't loaded with tons of spammy garbage when you first open it, and their privacy policies are a lot more stringent than Microsoft. Apple also doesn't have idiotic things like "inclusive" auto-correct built into their word processor. Apple's ecosystem and the synchronicity between all their devices makes sense why you'd want to sign with an Apple ID. Microsoft doesn't have that ... unless you are invested in Office 365 and Microsoft Edge and whatnot. It just depends on your needs. I never thought of signing into an Apple ID as a negative as it's not an obnoxious mess like it is on Windows. But some people love using all of Microsoft's stuff. It's just nice that we have options.

You're right though. Apple will nag the piss out of you if you aren't signed into iCloud.
 
I don't have experience with modern Intel chips. Could you pass through the DGPU to the guest, and use the iGPU for the host at the same time?
I would thinks so. I've come across articles on the web about people doing that. Here are some of the links I used when doing my system:

https://github.com/ethannij/VFIO-GPU-PASSTHROUGH-KVM-GUIDE
https://passthroughpo.st/using-evdev-passthrough-seamless-vm-input/

The first link is the best one I came across to get me moving. The second link is about evdev, a way to pass
keyboards and mice between the main OS and the VM. It's basically a virtual KVM for input devices.

Besides passing a GPU to the VM I also pass a USB controller. This allows me to connect USB keys, disk and headsets
directly to the VM. Very handy.
 
I would thinks so. I've come across articles on the web about people doing that. Here are some of the links I used when doing my system:

https://github.com/ethannij/VFIO-GPU-PASSTHROUGH-KVM-GUIDE
https://passthroughpo.st/using-evdev-passthrough-seamless-vm-input/

The first link is the best one I came across to get me moving. The second link is about evdev, a way to pass
keyboards and mice between the main OS and the VM. It's basically a virtual KVM for input devices.

Besides passing a GPU to the VM I also pass a USB controller. This allows me to connect USB keys, disk and headsets
directly to the VM. Very handy.

Yeah, the reason I asked is because I had throught that in order to conserve PCIe lanes, that some designs essentially share the PCIe lanes between the iGPU and the x16 slot, so when you use the PCIe lanes for a discrete GPU it deactivates the lanes going to the iGPU... But maybe that is an AMD thing.

As I said, I haven't spent much time with Intel systems since my x79 build.
 
I think it does. I, luckily, had a motherboard that allowed dual graphics cards (8 pci lanes to each) so I was able to get an extra card and pass it to the VM.
I like that the new AMD's all have build in graphics, that are adequate so use that on the host machine and have the real GPU as the pass-through
Have a CPU that doesn't have a built in GPU and a system that cant fit a second actual GPU, but if you have a spare M.2 handy there is always this route.
https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=M2_VGA#Specifications
 
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