Windows 10 October Update is Losing User Data

Mazzspeed said:
Furthermore, Microsoft really don't appear to care...
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Microsoft cares a great deal...


...about the financial health of Microsoft.


The reason we have Windows 10 the way it is is because they needed/wanted to open up more revenue streams by integrating more freemium services into the OS just like Google and Apple do with their app stores, music services, etc. etc.

Under the hood Windows 10 is one of the best designed versions of Windows to date. Smallest installed footprint in modern Microsoft history, smallest memory overhead in modern Microsoft history, most efficient scheduler and kernel in modern Microsoft history, fastest boot times in modern Microsoft history... I just so happen to hate their "trying to sell me an ecosystem" approach, when I just want a competent OS. I wish I as an individual could buy the Enterprise version.

They do seem to have dropped the ball a bit with how they handle the feature and upgrade side of things, but that's agile for you. Everyone is doing it these days :p
 
DocNo said:
Backblaze

or whatever your online backup vendor of choice is. Best money you will ever spend.

I'm glad I pretty much only game on Windows, but now I need to ensure I have this update blocked from any other machines I admin. It should be already but time to double check!

Ugh. I have to agree with others: how the hell does this get released to the wild? I also suspect as at least one other person in the thread suspects - I'll bet their old profile (and data) is there. That profiles are still problematic after all these years is also annoying. ProfileWizard is the greatest piece of software ever if you maintain more than a handful of Windows desktops.
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All of these services cost too much if you have large amounts of data.

I looked into rolling my own and using a colocation service for a while, but colocation services are surprisingly expensive, even if you provide all the hardware yourself.

My solution? Friend-location. Find a friend you trust who is also into all things geeky and servers. You stash a server of yours at his place, he stashes a server of his at your place. Use Dynamic DNS and port forwarding to back up to eachother.

Since usually everyone has a a lot of data that is unimportant, and a lot less data that needs to be backed up, I found, I could build my remote server using spare hardware I had laying around, and my old smaller hard drives that I used to use in my NAS prior to upgrading all the disks to 10TB.

This is the most cost effective offsite backup I've been able to come up with.

Every night at 3am my main NAS in my basement ZFS snapshots all of my volumes, and then connects to my friend-located server via SSH, and ZFS send/recv's the snapshot to the remote server.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Microsoft cares a great deal...


...about the financial health of Microsoft.
Click to expand...

Kind of necessary with a for profit company. Indeed to play in the tech space at this level requires shitloads of money.

Zarathustra[H] said:
The reason we have Windows 10 the way it is is because they needed/wanted to open up more revenue streams by integrating more freemium services into the OS just like Google and Apple do with their app stores, music services, etc. etc.

Under the hood Windows 10 is one of the best designed versions of Windows to date. Smallest installed footprint in modern Microsoft history, smallest memory overhead in modern Microsoft history, most efficient scheduler and kernel in modern Microsoft history, fastest boot times in modern Microsoft history... I just so happen to hate their "trying to sell me an ecosystem" approach, when I just want a competent OS. I wish I as an individual could buy the Enterprise version.

They do seem to have dropped the ball a bit with how they handle the feature and upgrade side of things, but that's agile for you. Everyone is doing it these days :p
Click to expand...

Lots of factors have gone into why Windows 10 is what it is. The rise of smartphones, Microsoft's failure in the smartphone OS space, devices becoming the focus of consumers more so than operating systems, pressure on the Microsoft model of selling operating systems to consumers, computing beyond smartphones becoming ever more mobile, etc.

As much as some folks think Windows 7 is just all that, in 2018 it's yesteryear. Microsoft's ultimate achievement in the classic desktop OS space which obviously many harken to. But probably not as big of deal today as many of this people think.
 
mufcfan said:
How many people had their data deleted apart from the guy in the article?
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The people going on and on about QA, THIS is the first question any QA process would be checking into, how many affected users? Yet ask it around here and you're a Microsoft shill. This shit is hilarious!
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
All of these services cost too much if you have large amounts of data.
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Backblaze is unlimited for any storage, including external disks. Not network disks. Yeah, you can get around it with iSCSI but that's kind of shitty. All my really important stuff is also copied on one machine that has Backblaze.

I also do the friends/family dupe thing, but we are in the extreme minority of users out there. The well over 80% solution is a service like Backblaze that turn it into about as much as a "just happens" service as is possible. For $50 a year it's a pretty cheap insurance policy, perfect or not.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Under the hood Windows 10 is one of the best designed versions of Windows to date. Smallest installed footprint in modern Microsoft history, smallest memory overhead in modern Microsoft history, most efficient scheduler and kernel in modern Microsoft history, fastest boot times in modern Microsoft history... I just so happen to hate their "trying to sell me an ecosystem" approach, when I just want a competent OS. I wish I as an individual could buy the Enterprise version.
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This. It's why I use it on my gaming machine - it's noticeably teh snappy™

Who would have thought if you gut your QA processes that software quality would go to crap? Unpossible!
 
Dick Johnson said:
No need to use an inferior OS. Just need common sense.

Don't put everything on one drive.
Separate drives for OS and data.
Backups
Backups
Backups
Backups
Backups of Backups
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I'll keep that in mind while I watch everyone else lose their Bowsette porn and not me, cause they use a proper OS.
 
Sikkyu said:
this is why i disable automatic updates....
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Unfortunately this used to be just a couple things to check and toggle with previous versions of Windows. Windows 10 has a myriad of ways which are far less obvious to still pull updates whether you turn the setting or service off.
 
heatlesssun said:
LOL! This is fucking hilarious. Microsoft can't design software but all they had to do was update Windows 7?
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Yes, there was a time when MS weren't so stupid, and you were just complaining about 10 and now turn on me. Typical.
 
heatlesssun said:
I'm curious. Which desktop OS undergoes this proper QA such that across all possible combinations of hardware and software there's never any sort of bug or flaw experienced by any end user?
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You need to have your head examined.
 
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Zepher said:
Oh, like clockwork, the Soundblaster settings all got reset.
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It's like they enjoy resetting stuff that you have to go back and redo each time. Like the settings for your sound card could be that difficult to retain, or cause a problem. It's just plain dumb.
 
heatlesssun said:
That's not it at all, at least looking at it from my perspective. I have three main daily driver PCs, all on Windows 10, now all on 1809, my sig rig, a Surface Book 2 15" i7 and a Surface Go 8 GB/128 GB. I've had the sig rig for over two years that's been through every Windows 10 version update starting from 1607, the SB 2 since December 2017 and the Surface Go I got in August. In addition to that, my work is moving to Windows 10, I'm scheduled to get it sometime next month.

So basically my PC world is either running or headed to Windows 10. There are no alternatives for all of the hardware and software I use that will work with Windows 7 or a Linux distro. I'm not losing GBs of data on version updates or suffering catastrophic failures or having constant severe issues. So Windows 10 works well for me especially given the lack of options. I understand that's not everyone's case but there's simply no way for me to use anything but Windows 10 at this time and not suffer massive conversions issues. If there's something better that does all that Windows 10 without all of the crap, I'd be more than willing to use it right now today.

But backups are easy, dozens of compatibility problems not so much. Again, it just depends on what one is doing with their PCs.
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Heatlesssun, can you get with Heatlessun and decide among yourself if you like Win 10 or don't. Please let us know, and maybe try to be less schizophrenic.

Also Win 7 could have been updated just like 10 without the spyware and idiot software design decisions, so stop talking about Win 7 being old and can't be updated, because that is what Win 10 is based on, except MS made a cluster out of it.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Microsoft cares a great deal...


...about the financial health of Microsoft.


The reason we have Windows 10 the way it is is because they needed/wanted to open up more revenue streams by integrating more freemium services into the OS just like Google and Apple do with their app stores, music services, etc. etc.

Under the hood Windows 10 is one of the best designed versions of Windows to date. Smallest installed footprint in modern Microsoft history, smallest memory overhead in modern Microsoft history, most efficient scheduler and kernel in modern Microsoft history, fastest boot times in modern Microsoft history... I just so happen to hate their "trying to sell me an ecosystem" approach, when I just want a competent OS. I wish I as an individual could buy the Enterprise version.

They do seem to have dropped the ball a bit with how they handle the feature and upgrade side of things, but that's agile for you. Everyone is doing it these days :p
Click to expand...
Everyone is doing it these days was never really a valid excuse, was it? See hippies, nazis, etc etc etc.
 
heatlesssun said:
The people going on and on about QA, THIS is the first question any QA process would be checking into, how many affected users? Yet ask it around here and you're a Microsoft shill. This shit is hilarious!
Click to expand...
It's actually not very funny to me to have my data possibly deleted by a lumbering idiot corporation, and even if it's only a few people, that's some major league insubordination. It shouldn't happen in .01% of cases, but go ahead and defend your beloved MS. The fact that you always try to defend them (when on your meds) that you either have stock or some type of benefit to gain. You are obviously biased.
 
heatlesssun said:
It's literally not possible to test every combination of hardware and software for any desktop OS as you'd never finish testing.
Click to expand...
MS told people they could test and get a copy of Win 10, then they reneged and said you had to have a valid license for a previous version, after people spent lots of time and effort doing the testing.

I would call that bait and switch and they should have to provide copies for all testers like they agreed to, but I guess they are a large corporation so lying and cheating is OK.

So, they can test a lot of configurations, but ever getting to 100% is not going to happen, but 99.9% could. Sure there will be a few problems, but the real thing that needed to be done is to protect your data or at least let people know an update is coming so they can prepare, why MS doesn't see this is beyond me.
 
heatlesssun said:
Kind of necessary with a for profit company. Indeed to play in the tech space at this level requires shitloads of money.



Lots of factors have gone into why Windows 10 is what it is. The rise of smartphones, Microsoft's failure in the smartphone OS space, devices becoming the focus of consumers more so than operating systems, pressure on the Microsoft model of selling operating systems to consumers, computing beyond smartphones becoming ever more mobile, etc.

As much as some folks think Windows 7 is just all that, in 2018 it's yesteryear. Microsoft's ultimate achievement in the classic desktop OS space which obviously many harken to. But probably not as big of deal today as many of this people think.
Click to expand...
Windows 7 is yesteryear as you put it, but still a better OS than 10. There are many reason as to why. MS starting making things 10 only probably due to DX12. If they had put it on 7, it would not be an issue.
 
M76 said:
The documents folder is a well known OS controlled path, right? You can't choose to put save games elsewhere. So that's not a solution. The solution is proper QA from MS, which it seems we can expect less and less of these days.
Click to expand...

Never ever will MS test every possible failure scenario possible. No vendor will ever be able to do that. I'm not trying to let MS off the hook, they consistently F up win updates however I've come to terms that they and everyone else can and eventually will.

And yes it is a solution, for me. All my important files are stored elsewhere on separate drives and on NFS's not running Windows. Any files that require a controlled directory as a home spot are sync'd one way with a remote directory to ensure you always have backups. Restrict deletion privilege/command... all set. Now I get I'm doing stuff that 95% of computers users don't do/can't do/won't pay for, I get it. However I know that I control my data and will always have a backup from that day.
 
triwolf said:
It's actually not very funny to me to have my data possibly deleted by a lumbering idiot corporation, and even if it's only a few people, that's some major league insubordination. It shouldn't happen in .01% of cases, but go ahead and defend your beloved MS. The fact that you always try to defend them (when on your meds) that you either have stock or some type of benefit to gain. You are obviously biased.
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Although, we should make a note here, that if there is only one (1) somewhat confirmed case, then this smells like bullshit.
Considering the adoption rate of Windows and the fact that most people can't be bothered to set the updates to the slow ring.

If this happened to someone with *nix, MacOS or whatever, then everyone would be 99% sure that it had nothing to do with the updating and/or that this was an acceptable ratio.
 
mufcfan said:
Although, we should make a note here, that if there is only one (1) somewhat confirmed case, then this smells like bullshit.
Considering the adoption rate of Windows and the fact that most people can't be bothered to set the updates to the slow ring.

If this happened to someone with *nix, MacOS or whatever, then everyone would be 99% sure that it had nothing to do with the updating and/or that this was an acceptable ratio.
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Ok, I agree. It may be only one person or the person may just not be able to locate the files, or some other odd error.

Still there are so many problems with Win 10 in general, I have had a couple of times where none of my software made it through the update process, and I had to reinstall everything. It's not happened recently, but that is a very poor upgrade when none of your software works.
 
That_Sound_Guy said:
Never ever will MS test every possible failure scenario possible. No vendor will ever be able to do that. I'm not trying to let MS off the hook, they consistently F up win updates however I've come to terms that they and everyone else can and eventually will.

And yes it is a solution, for me. All my important files are stored elsewhere on separate drives and on NFS's not running Windows. Any files that require a controlled directory as a home spot are sync'd one way with a remote directory to ensure you always have backups. Restrict deletion privilege/command... all set. Now I get I'm doing stuff that 95% of computers users don't do/can't do/won't pay for, I get it. However I know that I control my data and will always have a backup from that day.
Click to expand...
As I've said, just because you have life insurance doesn't mean you want to get murdered.
 
M76 said:
As I've said, just because you have life insurance doesn't mean you want to get murdered.
Click to expand...

Meh, that sounds overly dramatic.

If your files are elsewhere you really aren't losing much even if the entire isntsll tanks. An hour later you can have a fresh install (which probably isn't a bad idea every now and then anyway)

Personally I image my OS drive before doing any Windows update, just in case.
 
One word: Backups

If you you store your data on a single drive/location and nowhere else then it isn't data that you actually care about.
 
Nenu said:
Doesnt address the issue.
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Honestly, my old school PC mentality disagrees

Resize a partition? Expect to lose everything. Back shit up first.

Installing an OS upgrade? Expect to lose everything, back shit up first.

Doing pretty much anything invasive on a computer, phone or tablet? Expect to lose everything, back shit up first.

That's the way it always has been and always will be.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Meh, that sounds overly dramatic.

If your files are elsewhere you really aren't losing much even if the entire isntsll tanks. An hour later you can have a fresh install (which probably isn't a bad idea every now and then anyway)

Personally I image my OS drive before doing any Windows update, just in case.
Click to expand...
OK, then say you have insurance for theft, you are still not fine with being burgled.
Just because I have backup doesn't mean loosing data to an OS update is acceptable.
 
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Zarathustra[H] said:
Honestly, my old school PC mentality disagrees

Resize a partition? Expect to lose everything. Back shit up first.

Installing an OS upgrade? Expect to lose everything, back shit up first.

Doing pretty much anything invasive on a computer, phone or tablet? Expect to lose everything, back shit up first.

That's the way it always has been and always will be.
Click to expand...
Check the thread title.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Each Windows 10 update IS ABSOLUTELY a fully fledged OS upgrade, just like going from Windows 7 to Windows 8.
Click to expand...
And that is the core issue. You would use the problem itself as an excuse for one of it's symptoms? :D

It is in an update for all intents and purposes, but it's easier to just wipe it clean and do a fresh install instead of accounting for different configurations. And most important it is an upgrade nobody (well at least nobody outside fanboys) asks for.
 
In a day and age when software is migrating to the web and apps; OSes are slowly becoming less relevant to the overall user experience. Migrating to another platform is slowly becoming easier and easier. The masses are turning to their phones and tablets for a large portion of their computing. MS needs to be doing it better than ever to maintain its stranglehold on the market. Instead, they are rushing improperly tested code and features out to the public at an accelerated pace. Meanwhile, still expecting them to pay premium prices for this garbage code.
 
M76 said:
It is in an update for all intents and purposes, but it's easier to just wipe it clean and do a fresh install instead of accounting for different configurations. And most important it is an upgrade nobody (well at least nobody outside fanboys) asks for.
Click to expand...

Which you can substantiate with...?
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Each Windows 10 update IS ABSOLUTELY a fully fledged OS upgrade, just like going from Windows 7 to Windows 8.
Click to expand...
It would be nice if you addressed the point.
This isnt about using an install disk on a new hard drive.
 
Nenu said:
It would be nice if you addressed the point.
This isnt about using an install disk on a new hard drive.
Click to expand...

I have upgraded at least three systems from Windows 7 to Windows 10 (multiple versions), including 8 and 8.1, and I hadn't used a disk or USB stick for any of them. I'm not saying that it's best practice, but it most certainly can be done on a variety of desktop and mobile hardware.
 
Hagrid said:
Windows 7 is yesteryear as you put it, but still a better OS than 10.
Click to expand...

It's not that simple. Windows 7 isn't a better OS than 10 for 2 in 1 devices, high-DPI monitor setups and no one is going to run a pair of RTX 2080 Tis using Windows 7. Sure, Windows 10 gets a lot of potentially disruptive updates and there are problems with that process. Windows 7 at this point just gets minimal security and major bug fixes so there aren't any disruptive changes there.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
Which you can substantiate with...?
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Are you volunteering?

Then explain why would you want OS upgrades disguised as updates, that you can't opt out of, that often break settings, remove apps, reset defaults, and now as it seems deletes random files. You want this twice a year for what reason exactly?

If you can't come up with substantial amount of legitimate reasons for it, then you can be considered a fanboy. and my statement stands.
 
M76 said:
Are you volunteering?

Then explain why would you want OS upgrades disguised as updates, that you can't opt out of, that often break settings, remove apps, reset defaults, and now as it seems deletes random files. You want this twice a year for what reason exactly?

If you can't come up with substantial amount of legitimate reasons for it, then you can be considered a fanboy. and my statement stands.
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Lolol...

I like that Microsoft has continued to develop Windows. I like that Linux distro developers have done the same!

And I see plenty of potentially useful stuff. And some less useful stuff. And I stand by my statement that failing to backup ones' important data puts the responsibility of loss of data entirely on the user.
 
M76 said:
You actually want OS upgrades disguised as updates, that you can't opt out of, that often break settings, remove apps, reset defaults, and now as it seems deletes random files. You want this twice a year, is that what you are saying?
Click to expand...

You act as though every Windows 10 user is having these problems, they aren't. And if you're someone that's going with the latest and greatest PC hardware, these updates are necessary. 1809 is a must for RTX 2000 series owners if they want to be able to use all of the features of those cards as games begin to support them.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Microsoft cares a great deal...


...about the financial health of Microsoft.


The reason we have Windows 10 the way it is is because they needed/wanted to open up more revenue streams by integrating more freemium services into the OS just like Google and Apple do with their app stores, music services, etc. etc.

Under the hood Windows 10 is one of the best designed versions of Windows to date. Smallest installed footprint in modern Microsoft history, smallest memory overhead in modern Microsoft history, most efficient scheduler and kernel in modern Microsoft history, fastest boot times in modern Microsoft history... I just so happen to hate their "trying to sell me an ecosystem" approach, when I just want a competent OS. I wish I as an individual could buy the Enterprise version.

They do seem to have dropped the ball a bit with how they handle the feature and upgrade side of things, but that's agile for you. Everyone is doing it these days :p
Click to expand...

Windows isn't their bread and butter anymore, the cloud is - Microsoft are now making more money out of Linux based systems.

Microsoft's intention is to make Windows a service to prop up their cloud based division and they don't care if you don't like it.
 
M76 said:
Just because I have backup doesn't mean loosing data to an OS update is acceptable.
Click to expand...

And no one is saying that it is acceptable. But backing up has ALWAYS been advised when doing major software and hardware upgrades long before anyone heard of Windows 10. This is not an either/or situation. No, this shouldn't happen with Windows 10 updates, though no one seems even know the extent or reason why these cases even happened. And yes, backup important data. You're far more likely to lose it for reasons other than an OS upgrade.
 
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