Windows 10 now losing marketshare, Windows 7 gaining

[BulletDust]

I don't see how that's possible anymore with the emergence of 2 in 1 devices that need be touch, ink, keyboard and mouse capable. Using Windows 10 with keyboard and mouse for the majority of common usage scenarios isn't dramatically different. And Windows 7 wouldn't be nearly as capable as Windows 10 on such devices. And a lot of the apps work fine with keyboard and mouse or touch. I watch sporting events in using apps such WatchESPN, NBC, CBS and Fox and they work just was easily on a desktop as a tablet.

It's not perfect, there are certainly legacy issues like Control Panel versus Settings, but Windows 10 works pretty enough across form factors and input methods. I see people across all ages and experience levels that don't seem to have much of a problem with it. I think it's just a natural evolution as touch has become such a common way to interact with computing devices today.

That's fine, but a Windows desktop does not need any touch interface - None. It's a desktop operating system.

Microsoft are trying to blur both devices into one ecosystem, and it's really not working. Their touch devices are overpriced and largely unpopular in comparison to comparable Apple and Android devices, while their latest flagship desktop operating system is a mess.

 

[Hagrid]

At least they are not making people switch to Win 10 by holding back the new DX stuff on the older OS's.......

 

[heatlesssun]

That's fine, but a Windows desktop does not need any touch interface - None. It's a desktop operating system.

30 years ago when Windows was first released, there were only desktop clients with keyboards and mice. There were smartphones, tablets or even laptops. Touch and mobility on a large scale were still around two decades away. Today we have different form factors, far more mobile computing devices and we interact with them in ways that we didn't 30 years ago.

Microsoft are trying to blur both devices into one ecosystem, and it's really not working. Their touch devices are overpriced and largely unpopular in comparison to comparable Apple and Android devices, while their latest flagship desktop operating system is a mess.

The numbers would indicate that it is working. Surface devices are far from the only Windows 2 in 1s and tablets out there, many decent ones are now priced at the lower end. Surface devices obviously aren't cheap, Microsoft wasn't trying to go head to head with its OEM partners at mainstream price points. But for what they are they generally considered top notch industrially engineered devices that are pushing boundaries that have been pushed in the PC space for a while and there are a lot of other devices that are getting inspiration from the line.

I use x86 Windows 10 on wide range of devices, from an 8" tablet to a Surface Pro 3/Surface 3 to a first gen Surface Book to my sig rig. I simply don't see how it would improve Windows in this day to take that kind of flexibility away. It should be improved. Convergence is a natural progression in technology. The first PCs were text only with keyboards, no mice even. Then we added GUIs and mice, color displays. Then we took those and put them in smaller devices and thus laptops. Now with the emergence of even more mobile devices and touch, adding those to the PC realm is simply complying with contemporary norms.

As Windows tablet, laptop or desktop should be in essence the same thing that can be configured or that automatically adapts to the device that is at hand. Windows 10 actually does some of this reasonably well today and that should improve. I think that this is critical for the future of Windows as the traditional desktop becomes smaller part of the device mix.

 

[heatlesssun]

At least they are not making people switch to Win 10 by holding back the new DX stuff on the older OS's.......

It's not exactly that simple. DX is a COM application with deep ties into the kernel. There'd need to be a lot of low level retrofitting for older Windows OSes to support newer DX versions.

 

[Hagrid]

It's not exactly that simple. DX is a COM application with deep ties into the kernel. There'd need to be a lot of low level retrofitting for older Windows OSes to support newer DX versions.

I bet if they charged for it they could get the money back. They want to shove their new OS down our throats instead. Sad that even free it didn't do that well. I wonder how many actual copies of it sold and not OEM on a tablet/laptop/desktop.

 

[heatlesssun]

I bet if they charged for it they could get the money back. They want to shove their new OS down our throats instead. Sad that even free it didn't do that well. I wonder how many actual copies of it sold and not OEM on a tablet/laptop/desktop.

For a mature OS that will see at least consumer support end in about three years, I'm guessing there will be extended support for businesses, that's still a lot of work to do on something that Microsoft was never going to add major features to again at this point. Free seems to have done reasonably well, especially with gamers. Windows 10 is almost half of all Steam clients according to the latest Steam Hardware Survey and more importantly I think, Windows 10 64 bit is almost 20 points ahead of Windows 7 64 bit. Windows 10 is now the de facto AAA gaming PC OS. None of the major PC gaming hardware sites, including this one, is testing hardware or benchmarking games with anything other than Windows 10 64 bit now.

As for direct consumer sales of Windows 10, I'm sure not many copies sold. Certainly almost none during the free upgrade period never mind the fact that direct consumer sales of Windows upgrades have not been a big thing for a long time. OEM distribution has been by far how most consumers have gotten Windows for years. Part of the problem for Windows 10 adoption after the free upgrade period has been related to contracting new PC sales.

At this point I'd say that Windows 10 has been successful. The most important part of Windows 10's true success will be business adoption and that story will take about another 12 to 18 months to unfold.

 

[Hagrid]

For a mature OS that will see at least consumer support end in about three years, I'm guessing there will be extended support for businesses, that's still a lot of work to do on something that Microsoft was never going to add major features to again at this point. Free seems to have done reasonably well, especially with gamers. Windows 10 is almost half of all Steam clients according to the latest Steam Hardware Survey and more importantly I think, Windows 10 64 bit is almost 20 points ahead of Windows 7 64 bit. Windows 10 is now the de facto AAA gaming PC OS. None of the major PC gaming hardware sites, including this one, is testing hardware or benchmarking games with anything other than Windows 10 64 bit now.

As for direct consumer sales of Windows 10, I'm sure not many copies sold. Certainly almost none during the free upgrade period never mind the fact that direct consumer sales of Windows upgrades have not been a big thing for a long time. OEM distribution has been by far how most consumers have gotten Windows for years. Part of the problem for Windows 10 adoption after the free upgrade period has been related to contracting new PC sales.

At this point I'd say that Windows 10 has been successful. The most important part of Windows 10's true success will be business adoption and that story will take about another 12 to 18 months to unfold.

But Win 10 IMO could totally pass Win 7 if they just offered an choice of install that would get rid of the bloatware/spyware/touch/updating stuff.
They could have charged $100 for it when it came out and people would of gobbled it up. I would of no problem.
I didn't even take a free copy if that means anything. Maybe they didn't want to make money?

 

[heatlesssun]

But Win 10 IMO could totally pass Win 7 if they just offered an choice of install that would get rid of the bloatware/spyware/touch/updating stuff.
They could have charged $100 for it when it came out and people would of gobbled it up. I would of no problem.
I didn't even take a free copy if that means anything. Maybe they didn't want to make money?

There's two sides to this from Windows 10 critics. People like you that say that would pay $100 and others that say that there's not enough new desktop stuff to warrant paying anything even without the bloatware/spyware/touch/updating stuff. I'm not saying that making things more palatable to more people isn't a good thing, I just don't think that it would have actually added much to bottom line in Windows license sales to consumers without fragmentation issues.

 

[Hagrid]

There's two sides to this from Windows 10 critics. People like you that say that would pay $100 and others that say that there's not enough new desktop stuff to warrant paying anything even without the bloatware/spyware/touch/updating stuff. I'm not saying that making things more palatable to more people isn't a good thing, I just don't think that it would have actually added much to bottom line in Windows license sales to consumers without fragmentation issues.

Since DX12 only runs on Win 10, I think once it becomes needed it would be no problem for the other people to pay. But I don't want all the crap that comes with it.(even though 3rd party programs are helping)

 

[B00nie]

I have growing discontent towards Win10 even though I got it completely free. It's starting to give so much trouble with the forced updates that I have to spend my time fixing the problems so it's not free at all in the end.

It seems that each time my sons Win10 gets an update, certain settings get reset. For example the microphone source gets reset -> no mic until you go and re-set it. He complains also about other stuff (twitch etc. apps losing settings) but those he managed to fix by himself.

 

[Hagrid]

I have growing discontent towards Win10 even though I got it completely free. It's starting to give so much trouble with the forced updates that I have to spend my time fixing the problems so it's not free at all in the end.

It seems that each time my sons Win10 gets an update, certain settings get reset. For example the microphone source gets reset -> no mic until you go and re-set it. He complains also about other stuff (twitch etc. apps losing settings) but those he managed to fix by himself.

You get what you pay for...
Not sure I will try 10 out. 7 is working and 8.1 with 3rd party software works.

 

[heatlesssun]

You get what you pay for...
Not sure I will try 10 out. 7 is working and 8.1 with 3rd party software works.

Same here for me with 10. At this point in its life I'm probably having fewer issues with 10 than 7 and certainly less than 8.x. A little hard to make a direct comparison for me, while I did use Windows 7 on tablets and convertibles, 10 blows 7 away in that regard and I used these devices a lot more than when 7 was current. On a desktop, 10 has fixed the biggest issues for me coming from 8.x. The forced updates to this point haven't caused me any personal issues but I am aware of the issues and would agree that there should be better controls over the process.

At this point Windows 7 is pointless to me personally. The biggest reason for me to stay on it personally was Windows Media Center and with TV in a browser, Netflix, Hulu and Amazon Prime even that doesn't bring a lot to table.

 

[DPI]

That's fine, but a Windows desktop does not need any touch interface - None. It's a desktop operating system.

Microsoft are trying to blur both devices into one ecosystem, and it's really not working. Their touch devices are overpriced and largely unpopular in comparison to comparable Apple and Android devices, while their latest flagship desktop operating system is a mess.

Quoted for truth. MS tried to take a lazy shortcut to mobile/touch relevance by burdening and taking for granted their large desktop installed base with the shitty mobile app and touch crap, and all they managed to do was piss off those desktop users - while only flopping further in mobile.

Now with WMobile dead and abandoned, there's no more reason for UWA/WinRT10 apps to exist, rendering Desktop 10's appstore a schizophrenic mess at worst and solution in search of a problem at best. A couple niche vanity projects - Surface Books & Studios & Hololens (DOA) don't move that consumer needle and ultimately don't amount to anything.

All they needed to do was leave desktop users alone like Apple was wise enough to do, while creating a compelling mobile offering that was strong enough to stand on its own.

 

[heatlesssun]

Quoted for truth. MS tried to take a lazy shortcut to mobile/touch relevance by burdening and taking for granted their large desktop installed base with the shitty mobile app and touch crap, and all they managed to do was piss off those desktop users - while only flopping further in mobile.

Now with WMobile dead and abandoned, there's no more reason for UWA/WinRT10 apps to exist, rendering Desktop 10's appstore a schizophrenic mess at worst and solution in search of a problem at best. A couple niche vanity projects - Surface Books & Studios & Hololens (DOA) don't move that consumer needle and ultimately don't amount to anything.

All they needed to do was leave desktop users alone like Apple was wise enough to do, while creating a compelling mobile offering that was strong enough to stand on its own.

It's a lot more complicated than this. Windows has been on tablets and convertible devices well before smartphones and mobile OS based tablets. The Surface line is far from all that there is in Windows tablets and 2 in 1 and account for about 10% of all PC sales today and that number is growing at a healthy clip. A unifying platform that can support multiple form factors and input methods makes a lot of sense even if Microsoft will never have any significant presence in smartphones because there are going to be other devices and form factors in the future. Touch, ink, voice, those things aren't going away as ways to interface with all types of computing devices.

As for idea of Apple leaving desktop users alone, even Apple is having a hard time with x86 devices these days and it's newest "innovation" there is a touch bar.

 

[SomeGuy133]

It's a lot more complicated than this. Windows has been on tablets and convertible devices well before smartphones and mobile OS based tablets. The Surface line is far from all that there is in Windows tablets and 2 in 1 and account for about 10% of all PC sales today and that number is growing at a healthy clip. A unifying platform that can support multiple form factors and input methods makes a lot of sense even if Microsoft will never have any significant presence in smartphones because there are going to be other devices and form factors in the future. Touch, ink, voice, those things aren't going away as ways to interface with all types of computing devices.

As for idea of Apple leaving desktop users alone, even Apple is having a hard time with x86 devices these days and it's newest "innovation" there is a touch bar.

i agree to an extent. A single OS is critical for MS success and better AIO type designs and multi form factor ccomputers but the problem is MS never even bothers to keep a pure desktop experience. There are numerous ways to improve on win 7 but MS never even bothered. They even made it worse by complete neglect.

They simply needed to take Win 7 and make it better and leave it as a separate desktop mode and not blend mobile and desktop together. This blending BS is what made Win10 total awkward trash.

Also this modern obsession to making shit pretty...fucks over all sense of productivity. I turn off as much animations as possible because it slows down my productivity by alot. Forced animation delays is terrible. We want sub 250ms response times not 500ms forced because of some bs animation. Don't force me too keep reference IBMs study from 30 years ago. -_-

Also Win10 antimations require an ass ton of resources. My u6500 sky rockets and stalls on some of these animations and i see pointlessly high cpu usage....slows me down, drains battery, and so on and so on.

 

[Matthew Kane]

Strong Win7 user here. It's not that I'm completely used to it but Win10 brought more problems to the table then it said it can address compared to Win7. The driver support and compatibility is still a clusterfuck, being unable to manage how windows updates are processed compared to Win7 is a complete joke. Don't even get me started on that Anniversary update that fucked things up further.

 

[SuperSubZero]

Win10 brought more problems to the table then it said it can address compared to Win7. The driver support and compatibility is still a clusterfuck

That's an interesting assessment. We're deploying Win10 at work, and whether it's a brand new Lenovo, an eight-year old Dell, a somewhere-in-the-middle HP, or some little mini-box portable PC brick, Win10 has always installed and found the vast majority of drivers itself with no particular blocking issues. I handle deployment scripts and by far the Win10 side of things has the least number of drivers I have to outright download and provide myself. It's even doing a good job with the "specific Optimus drivers" on some of the newer Lenovos and Dells. I have one home laptop that is the *only* computer with a device I can't get working right, and that's an old Dell Precision m6500 trackpad that two-finger scrolling doesn't work in Win10-styled apps. That's.. it.

being unable to manage how windows updates are processed compared to Win7 is a complete joke. Don't even get me started on that Anniversary update that fucked things up further.

It's a new paradigm and not everyone can adapt to it. We have a few hundred Win10 machines at work now, and a grand total of one user reported an issue with Windows Update forcing a reboot during business hours, which we never were able to reproduce. The standard process for the entire IT staff on Win10 has been "get some notification that a restart is requested, close that box, work all day, at the end of the day do "Update and Shut Down", next day turn on and use as normal with all updates applied." ~shrug~

 

[B00nie]

Same here for me with 10. At this point in its life I'm probably having fewer issues with 10 than 7 and certainly less than 8.x. A little hard to make a direct comparison for me, while I did use Windows 7 on tablets and convertibles, 10 blows 7 away in that regard and I used these devices a lot more than when 7 was current. On a desktop, 10 has fixed the biggest issues for me coming from 8.x. The forced updates to this point haven't caused me any personal issues but I am aware of the issues and would agree that there should be better controls over the process.

At this point Windows 7 is pointless to me personally. The biggest reason for me to stay on it personally was Windows Media Center and with TV in a browser, Netflix, Hulu and Amazon Prime even that doesn't bring a lot to table.

Your posts would be a little more convincing if they didn't sound like scripted MS PR person talks where everything is greener on Windows and it can do nothing wrong.

 

[heatlesssun]

Your posts would be a little more convincing if they didn't sound like scripted MS PR person talks where everything is greener on Windows and it can do nothing wrong.

What am I supposed to say? I've used Windows daily for 25 years, I am well aware of Windows' flaws and never have thought of it was perfect. Windows 10 has its problems and people have discussed them at length. I do agree with much of the criticism. I like a lot of what 10 is targeted at, like 2 in 1s as I use those devices daily now.

 

[heatlesssun]

They simply needed to take Win 7 and make it better and leave it as a separate desktop mode and not blend mobile and desktop together. This blending BS is what made Win10 total awkward trash.

Perhaps. But the thing that makes Windows 10 interesting on 2 in 1s and tablets is the blend. One version of the OS with the blend that works across multiple devices, including desktops with UWA apps, and one that's just a classic desktop with only Win32 support. I don't think it would work as well as some might think.

Also Win10 antimations require an ass ton of resources. My u6500 sky rockets and stalls on some of these animations and i see pointlessly high cpu usage....slows me down, drains battery, and so on and so on.

There are options to reduce resources here, disabling transparency and setting custom Performance Options.

 

[SomeGuy133]

Perhaps. But the thing that makes Windows 10 interesting on 2 in 1s and tablets is the blend. One version of the OS with the blend that works across multiple devices, including desktops with UWA apps, and one that's just a classic desktop with only Win32 support. I don't think it would work as well as some might think.



There are options to reduce resources here, disabling transparency and setting custom Performance Options.

As i said....They should have kept Win7 basic design and made that the basic desktop mode and tweak it to fix its short comings and added new features for desktops. I said a 2 in 1 OS and a single OS is critical for MS in my post but they should have kept a pure desktop mode with no tablet features enabled for productivity. It would not be hard to do that. The frame work for that is already in Win 10 but MS decided to not even bother.


Again you can;t remove most of the fluff like you could in Win 7. Win 7 response times were very good with 50-150ms IIRC..probably could be faster if better written. 50ms vs 150ms is very noticeable. 250ms or greater is horribly obnoxious. The basic fade in Win 7 was 250ms. goign from 250ms to 50 ms IIRC the numbers right was huge. The stuff in Win10 wouldn't surprise me was 500ms or greater. It is horribly unresponsive. Try my desktop on Win 7 vs Win 10 and it is horrible.

 

[rat]

Would it be wise to have 2 separate systems; Linux on one for business related and Windows 10 for gaming/surfing?

Best way to do it, IMHO. I wouldn't bother with dual booting, even as far as it's come these days. Dedicated machine for each OS, use a NAS to share files between both systems, that way you always have one or the other to use when you're still trying to get past the learning curve somewhere. I hacked an old Chromebook to boot Ubuntu and that went a substantial way towards getting my comfortable in using Linux full time.

 

[AltTabbins]

I've had it with windows installing apps without me approving.
I hate the telemetry gathering.
I hate the lack of control with updates.
I hate feeling like I don't actually control my operating system and that I'm just borrowing it from Microsoft as a service.
I don't want to use 3rd party programs to fix these things just to have an update revert my changes and block those 3rd party apps. I don't want to fight my OS.

I will be going back to 8.1 this week and to be honest, the only reason I am not going with Linux Mint is that World of Warcraft doesn't play well with wine on the latest patch. I actually yanked my Windows 10 drive, tossed in a spare ssd I had sitting around, installed Mint to it, and did my own version of production environment testing. The important stuff worked great, but Wow is my main drug of choice so there's that holding me back.

I've been extremely pro windows 10 over the last year. I just hate where it is and don't see any hope in th future to fix the issues I have with it.

 

[rezerekted]

I'm gonna be brutally honest here - I hated windows 8 and 8.1. Far to much touch interface, it was like two completely separate operating systems all confusingly rolled into one. Windows 10 is slightly better, but there's still two UI's making things unnessecarily messy.

MS need to give up on trying to run one interface that covers both touch and desktop devices.

I use Classicshell. You never have to even see or use the touch GUI if you don't want to. Your reason is not a valid reason to not use it. My StartMenu with Clasicshell is way better than the abortion Win10 has. You can use Classicshell in Win10 too so if you don't like the Win10 start menu then fix it.

But I actually do use the Metro Gui now because I found it good way to quick start my often use games/progs instead of cluttering up the desktop.

 

[rezerekted]

at least offer a desktop/tablet OS like Win 10 and a Desktop only version. 2:1 win 10 isn't horrible because they need both but Win 10 on a pure desktop is bad.

Where is anyone saying Win 8.1 was not terrible? Ugh it was trash. Granted it had soem cool features but the overall UI was terrible. (WM is one of them)

Look, here is my Win8.1 using Classicshell for the start menu in classic mode. What is bad about it? If you don't like that start menu there is a Win7 look and others too, plus you can customize what is displayed on the start menu.

 

[SomeGuy133]

Look, here is my Win8.1 using Classicshell for the start menu in classic mode. What is bad about it? If you don't like that start menu there is a Win7 look and others too, plus you can customize what is displayed on the start menu.

thats not the only issue. control panel, and plenty of other features and settings are unneededly complicated and changed. I loathe Win7 over 2000/XP in terms of control panel and task bar.

Show me how i can save several folders to task bar? (as seperate icons...oh wait...MS totally removed that for no FUKING REASON!)...Win7 and future versions lost many features like this. Win 8/10 made many of this worse and better. But its a gaggle fuck i don't want to deal with. Plus the shell doesn't remove a lot of other changes to explorer and many other unneeded fluff and qorkiness. It isn't just the start button.

only major thing that compels me to switch is PRO having a VM built in. Plus several programs don't work on 8 or 10. Like netlimiter 2/3 I hate Netlimiter 4 with a passion.

you know what Win 7 did that XP didn;t have an issue with too? high level searches with lots of filters.

Also going from search to a result...where the fuck is this file? or how do i go up? I also shouldn't have to customize the OS with third party stuff....thats stupid

(working on an example)

where the fuck is this? How do I go up? This shit was never an issue with 2000/XP. Again basic shit removed for no reason.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kdx91bhy7264vlb/Screenshot 2016-11-23 02.06.28.png?dl=0

up does this...wtf???
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8stbzjmx8amebu9/Screenshot 2016-11-23 02.08.48.png?dl=0

C:\Users\Owner\Dropbox\Camera Uploads\hanbok with mijin
up should take me to camera uploads...but no...it doesn't because this stuff is planned and coded by idiots.

XP never did this. So now I have to:
right click
open in new window
close old window
click up

why???

This broken ass shit is everywhere...can you see the rage coming out? Also 8 and 10 look like ass but thats a trifle of an issue.

I can go on....what does double clicking on netork icon do in 2000/XP vs 7/8/10 oh it open status report...now it is lik 2 windows and 5 clicks WTF!

so much more is broken in 7 vs XP/2000 and it gets worse with 7 to 8/10. Even XP broke things 2000 did right. It is a common trend with MS. 2000 was the only OS that didn't fuck something up from the previous OS.

If it wasn't obvious this isn't even remotely close to all the broken stuff. It is just some of the things i used daily in the past that are broken and i thought of off my head. I could name countless more.

 

[michalrz]

And now for something completely different.
The Larch.

Actually something even different. A little shout out to like minded people.

May be time to put aside the 7 > 8 <10 arguments...
Just imagine what would happen is MS went directly to 8 after Vista.

That ought to give you perspective.

Now, the OS as a subscribed service model isn't going to work for any company.

It works with Office365 because Office is not vital for most people.
Not only due to the presence of Libre and other alternatives, but because of the presence of calc.exe, wordpad.exe and paint. Whoever needs productivity software might opt for a subscriber model.
As long as there's competition for a particular service, this model will not likely be abused.
By abuse I mean yanking features and raising prices.

But the subscriber model will not work for essentials, like a kernel, drivers, window manager, driver framework, networking.
It won't work here because these features will soon be feasible even within a basic UEFI bios!

Hardforum is a free website. (fifteen bucks, little man...), Firefucks is a free browser.
That's why it's so hard to get people to pay up for the lower layers, if they only care about the upper ones.
Even if MS decided it wants to charge for that, then there's a possibility someone will port the foundations (like GTK) fully to Windows. Remember the attempts to port Direct10 to Windows XP?

There's also the problem with "killing off" pieces of technology. Optical media may be ancient, flimsy, but the cost to benefit ratio still makes them perfectly usable and non-intrusive. If you buy a slim notebook without a DVD drive, you're really just putting off buying a portable DVD drive for later.
Optical media are alive because they meet some fundamental requirements: a music album takes up a CD/DVD disc, and people have discrete CD players. And that's really it.
If you ever listen to music, you'll probably bump into needing a DVD drive. Same with legacy ports such as PS/2 or RS232. PS/2 has N-key rollover, long wires, is powered, doesn't really take up motherboard real estate (unlike an IDE port which does steal space). RS232 is very useful for hobbyists to connect their DIY devices.

XP is still alive. It met the requirement of some sound fanatics, myself included.
It's insecure and inefficient compared to 7 or Linux 2.6, but if all you want is a way to make the most out of your expensive (older model) soundcard, then a locked down XP box near your receiver/speaker set is perfectly fine.

Forcing people away from things that work and still meet current requirements is kind of counter productive.

Back when I had an Audigy 2 ZS, I could plug in an electric guitar to it and literally program the Digital Signal Processor by hand (using kX drivers) directly, bypassing any and all latency issues.
It was fun. And it still works, I still have an XP box just for music.

The higher up you go on the OSI layer model, the more likely is to find yourself needing a subscription model. This should be the road map for planning what to charge for.

But the operating system and accompanying system tools should stay out of the way and should not take your hardware hostage.

 

[B00nie]

The hobbyist section has largely abandoned desktops though with the arrival or Raspberry Pi and the likes. They make hobby projects extremely cheap and simple.

 

[heatlesssun]

As i said....They should have kept Win7 basic design and made that the basic desktop mode and tweak it to fix its short comings and added new features for desktops. I said a 2 in 1 OS and a single OS is critical for MS in my post but they should have kept a pure desktop mode with no tablet features enabled for productivity. It would not be hard to do that. The frame work for that is already in Win 10 but MS decided to not even bother.


Again you can;t remove most of the fluff like you could in Win 7. Win 7 response times were very good with 50-150ms IIRC..probably could be faster if better written. 50ms vs 150ms is very noticeable. 250ms or greater is horribly obnoxious. The basic fade in Win 7 was 250ms. goign from 250ms to 50 ms IIRC the numbers right was huge. The stuff in Win10 wouldn't surprise me was 500ms or greater. It is horribly unresponsive. Try my desktop on Win 7 vs Win 10 and it is horrible.

The only Windows 7 device I use daily now is my work issued HP Elitebook laptop. As far as general performance and UI responsiveness from the standpoint of application use, Office, Visual Studio, etc. I just don't see anything that's smoother or faster in 7. Obviously not a one to one comparison since I've not tested any specific piece of hardware with Windows 7 vs 10. Out of the box on a laptop using external monitors, my Surface Book to me feels perfectly responsive, the track pad on a Surface Book with Windows 10 is great at task switching.

I agree that Microsoft should do more to address people who just want a desktop with more options as it does seem to be a common complaint of Windows 10 critics.

 

[rezerekted]

thats not the only issue. control panel, and plenty of other features and settings are unneededly complicated and changed. I loathe Win7 over 2000/XP in terms of control panel and task bar.

Show me how i can save several folders to task bar? (as seperate icons...oh wait...MS totally removed that for no FUKING REASON!)...Win7 and future versions lost many features like this. Win 8/10 made many of this worse and better. But its a gaggle fuck i don't want to deal with. Plus the shell doesn't remove a lot of other changes to explorer and many other unneeded fluff and qorkiness. It isn't just the start button.

only major thing that compels me to switch is PRO having a VM built in. Plus several programs don't work on 8 or 10. Like netlimiter 2/3 I hate Netlimiter 4 with a passion.

you know what Win 7 did that XP didn;t have an issue with too? high level searches with lots of filters.

Also going from search to a result...where the fuck is this file? or how do i go up? I also shouldn't have to customize the OS with third party stuff....thats stupid

(working on an example)

where the fuck is this? How do I go up? This shit was never an issue with 2000/XP. Again basic shit removed for no reason.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kdx91bhy7264vlb/Screenshot 2016-11-23 02.06.28.png?dl=0

up does this...wtf???
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8stbzjmx8amebu9/Screenshot 2016-11-23 02.08.48.png?dl=0

C:\Users\Owner\Dropbox\Camera Uploads\hanbok with mijin
up should take me to camera uploads...but no...it doesn't because this stuff is planned and coded by idiots.

XP never did this. So now I have to:
right click
open in new window
close old window
click up

why???

This broken ass shit is everywhere...can you see the rage coming out? Also 8 and 10 look like ass but thats a trifle of an issue.

I can go on....what does double clicking on netork icon do in 2000/XP vs 7/8/10 oh it open status report...now it is lik 2 windows and 5 clicks WTF!

so much more is broken in 7 vs XP/2000 and it gets worse with 7 to 8/10. Even XP broke things 2000 did right. It is a common trend with MS. 2000 was the only OS that didn't fuck something up from the previous OS.

If it wasn't obvious this isn't even remotely close to all the broken stuff. It is just some of the things i used daily in the past that are broken and i thought of off my head. I could name countless more.

I don't put folders on my task bar and use start menu for quick access to custom folders. As for control panel, my control panel I have customized so it is a list in the start menu and is better than the Win7 control panel because I can find what I want much quicker. I don't actually go to control panel pane, I just select which control panel item I want from a start menu list, if you get what I mean.

Mostly I like Win8.1 better just because it feels faster than Win7. In Win7 if you use aero and then go play a resource hungry game stupid Microsoft asks you if you want to turn aero off to save resources after you exit the game. That always annoyed me because to fix that you have to turn of aero and Win7 without aero looks crap.

I'm sticking by what I say and that Win8.1>Win7 so long as you do a bit of customization. Also, my Win7 just Home edition but my Win8.1 is Pro and I do use GPedit to customize stuff, which I can't do with my Win7.

 

[SomeGuy133]

The only Windows 7 device I use daily now is my work issued HP Elitebook laptop. As far as general performance and UI responsiveness from the standpoint of application use, Office, Visual Studio, etc. I just don't see anything that's smoother or faster in 7. Obviously not a one to one comparison since I've not tested any specific piece of hardware with Windows 7 vs 10. Out of the box on a laptop using external monitors, my Surface Book to me feels perfectly responsive, the track pad on a Surface Book with Windows 10 is great at task switching.

I agree that Microsoft should do more to address people who just want a desktop with more options as it does seem to be a common complaint of Windows 10 critics.

I am talking about Windows UI. Win 2000/xp/7 had the least or most easily turned off fluff features. If you turn off fades, and transitions opening and closing windows ranged from 50-250ms depending on how fast your PC was. So faster your monitor and PC faster windows loaded. This is the transition on the monitor part and not the total time for a click to open a window. There is also a slight pause but i dont think Win7/10 are much different in that regard. I havent gotten around to testing that stuff yet.

It is like click on paint...takes 50ms for first frame to show and another ~50ms to fully load paint. I forget the exact numbers. I have it posted around here somewhere. The fade BS was a solid 250ms...17 frames of a 60 hz screen :/

Win 10 has far far slower fluff like clicking on start takes fucking forever!

EDIT: okay maybe it is a 250ms transistion....i'll time it another day but it is painful. Maybe I am used to 50-100ms now. It is amazing how re can feel responsiveness all the way down to 50ms or maybe even lower.

I can tell you though Win7 over all is far faster in general UI unless I am missing ways to disable Win10 animations. If anyone has a link to disable everything please PM me it. I want to stripe the shit out of win10 transitions.

Also Win7 i dont even like....it just isn't horrible. Win7 i have many many complaints but someone MS made shit even worse....morons.

I don't put folders on my task bar and use start menu for quick access to custom folders. As for control panel, my control panel I have customized so it is a list in the start menu and is better than the Win7 control panel because I can find what I want much quicker. I don't actually go to control panel pane, I just select which control panel item I want from a start menu list, if you get what I mean.

Mostly I like Win8.1 better just because it feels faster than Win7. In Win7 if you use aero and then go play a resource hungry game stupid Microsoft asks you if you want to turn aero off to save resources after you exit the game. That always annoyed me because to fix that you have to turn of aero and Win7 without aero looks crap.

I'm sticking by what I say and that Win8.1>Win7 so long as you do a bit of customization. Also, my Win7 just Home edition but my Win8.1 is Pro and I do use GPedit to customize stuff, which I can't do with my Win7.

for me there are like 5 folders i open all the time and some projects i may need to open a folder many times for a day or two....like when i do taxes or some photography thing so havign a simple one click direct link is nice. You no longer can do that.

I have gotten used to just typing in start button for everything since Win 10 and Win 7 control panel is a gaggle fuck.

The turning areo off is obnoxious without a doubt. Win XXXXX version alwyas has some stupid notification you can never forever tell to simple fuck off. Turn off aera or go to 16bit color notification 2000/xp/7 was always annoying.

 

[pxc]

In about a week there will another data point to compare OS market share. I usually mention that there are problems with Net Market Share data, especially month to month trends, because they seem to correct weightings on a regular basis. That means data this month may not be directly comparable to previous months, but newer OS share estimates should be more accurate when adjustments are made.

It's not a big surprise that Win10 growth is stagnant. It grew largely because of the consumer segment, and mostly from free upgrades. Corporate/enterprise is a lot harder to make gains because of many problems including licensing fees, internal application compatibility testing and user retraining. There seems to be Windows 8.x-level non-adoption of Windows 10 in those environments, so there's probably no rush to move to 10 while 7 is still in extended support. Hopefully this resistance will make MS rethink several awful decisions it has made in 10, but I'm not holding my breath.

Basically all new Windows tablets/laptops/desktops have Windows 10 installed, so I'd expect to see a modest tick upwards for Windows 10 OS share in December and January.

 

[rezerekted]

for me there are like 5 folders i open all the time and some projects i may need to open a folder many times for a day or two....like when i do taxes or some photography thing so havign a simple one click direct link is nice. You no longer can do that.

I have gotten used to just typing in start button for everything since Win 10 and Win 7 control panel is a gaggle fuck.

I just tested pinning a folder to the taskbar in Win8.1 and it asked me if I want to pin to file explorer which is pinned on my taskbar. I allowed it and now when I click on file explorer in the taskbar it shows the custom folder at the top of the jump list. So, there you go, you can do what you want in Win8.1 but it pins it to a jump list in file explorer on the task bar, which IMO is even better than separate folders pinned across the task bar.

 

[SomeGuy133]

I just tested pinning a folder to the taskbar in Win8.1 and it asked me if I want to pin to file explorer which is pinned on my taskbar. I allowed it and now when I click on file explorer in the taskbar it shows the custom folder at the top of the jump list. So, there you go, you can do what you want in Win8.1 but it pins it to a jump list in file explorer on the task bar, which IMO is even better than separate folders pinned across the task bar.

i said separate icons....reread my post. I don't want to right click, wait for pop up, move mouse to 1 of 10 narrow icons.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1zejddmxt0ndffg/win 10 folders.png?dl=0

you can no longer do this

doing that pinned to explorer crap takes far too long and adds unneeded time to do something that was never a problem before

there was no reason to move this feature. It was very useful for folders accessed many many many times a day

 

[SuperSubZero]

I am talking about Windows UI. Win 2000/xp/7 had the least or most easily turned off fluff features. If you turn off fades, and transitions opening and closing windows ranged from 50-250ms depending on how fast your PC was. So faster your monitor and PC faster windows loaded. This is the transition on the monitor part and not the total time for a click to open a window. There is also a slight pause but i dont think Win7/10 are much different in that regard. I havent gotten around to testing that stuff yet.

Not sure if this was covered, but ever since Vista (yes, Vista), there has been an option in Control Panel > Ease of Access > Make it easier to focus on tasks > Turn off all unnecessary animations (when possible). It does exactly what it says. It affects the desktop as well as the Start tiles etc.

for me there are like 5 folders i open all the time and some projects i may need to open a folder many times for a day or two....like when i do taxes or some photography thing so havign a simple one click direct link is nice. You no longer can do that.

This sounds more workflow-ish. I'm not sure why you're opening the same folder repeatedly without just minimizing it. However, again, since Vista, there's been a way to very easily script a solution. A simple batch file with, say,

start .\Documents\Project1
start .\Documents\Project2
...

Will open said folders on the desktop. Power on, log in, double-click OpenProject.bat, project folders open. It can also kick off your apps.

 

[SomeGuy133]

Not sure if this was covered, but ever since Vista (yes, Vista), there has been an option in Control Panel > Ease of Access > Make it easier to focus on tasks > Turn off all unnecessary animations (when possible). It does exactly what it says. It affects the desktop as well as the Start tiles etc.


This sounds more workflow-ish. I'm not sure why you're opening the same folder repeatedly without just minimizing it. However, again, since Vista, there's been a way to very easily script a solution. A simple batch file with, say,

Echo off
start .\Documents\Project1
start .\Documents\Project2
...

Will open said folders on the desktop. Power on, log in, double-click OpenProject.bat, project folders open. It can also kick off your apps.

again i stripped out all the animations....it still takes far to long to right click, move to a very small narrow icon, and click on the right folder. It literally is faster just to open explore and click my way to the folder.

leaving many folders open is not helpful and is a cluster fuck. Again stop your BS MS PR spiel. The feature should still exist. There is ZERO reason to remove it like countless other things MS has done to make a broken as OS.

my work flow has nothing to do with booting so your ridiculous solution is of 0 help.

If i work in 5 or 10 folders i am not leaving them all open...thats stupid. I control W nearly all my folders to reduce clutter when a window no longer needs to be open at that gives moment.

Additionally, don't make assumptions on what i do on my computer assuming what I do and how I do it. Everyone does different things and you are clearly talking out of your ass.

Examples of various things that require 5 or 10 or more folders.

Photo organizing based on different days and events
medical records
taxes
other sorts of documentation

I have highly organized files with many different folders so things are easy to find. I don't gaggle fuck my shit.

I currently need to organize a 6 week trip to Japan and korea....wasn;t ablee to go to bali because friend flaked out.

So I have photos from 5.5 weeks, Tokyo, Yokota, Hiyoshi, Nagoya, Kyoto, trains, Osan, Sokcho, Seoul, various districts, numerous events, and so much more.

I also have VA records I need to work on for a new claim that spans 2008-2016 of medical, service, court cases, court law, multiple different filing periods, emails, and more. being able to pin and close folders was a wonder in XP.

additionally, trying to click on a tiny ass icon on a 4K screen with motor damage is highly annoying with that pin BS.

If you misclick that wastes even more time because now you have to close wrong window and re right click and move to the right icon. A misclick is the worst part.

 

[SuperSubZero]

Again stop your BS MS PR spiel.

 

[SuperSubZero]

(create a folder, put folder shortcuts in it, create a new toolbar and point to that folder)

 

[SomeGuy133]

(create a folder, put folder shortcuts in it, create a new toolbar and point to that folder)

interesting....is that a Win 10 thing or in Win7?

I actually can see that being useful

that looks useful but takes a ton of space verse a simple icon but both would have been nice but that looks useful though. Wish i could do both :/

 

[SuperSubZero]

interesting....is that a Win 10 thing or in Win7?

Yes. (it should work in both)

that looks useful but takes a ton of space verse a simple icon but both would have been nice but that looks useful though. Wish i could do both :/

You can control how the icons/text appear. I put the text to be snarky. The toolbar has it's own properties, so as shown, you can put labels on these but not the other icons, or vice versa.