Windows 10, New Features, DO NOT WANT

michalrz

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Dear Microsoft. I have a window for checking the weather. For breaking news, I have an air raid siren right across the street.
No means no.
Dear Windows, you are an OS. Not a weather station. You do the filesystem, scheduling and APIs, lemme choose the rest, mmmmmmkaaay?
 

GotNoRice

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Been noticing more and more of that "we're going to make your computer act like it has malware but it's actually Just Doing Windows Stuff, lol"
- system idling at desktop
- notice compy fans ramping
- notice CPU power is high
- open Task Manager
- Windows services scatter like roaches before I can catch what's using all the CPU
- CPU power drops
- fans ramp down
- close Task Manager
- background services sense I'm not looking and resume whatever they were doing
- Repeat
It's not just Windows Update stuff either, it's... I don't even know honestly, and that's a problem.

it's a laptop so the fans ramping is super noticeable no matter how I set the curve. But yeah, I guess I should be thankful in a way that Windows is that good at spinning down background activity when it detects user activity.

Sounds like it's going to take some advanced tactics to tackle this, such as keeping task manager open when you leave your computer idle.

Windows does a lot more in the background now than it did years ago. Back in the single-core era, background tasks using CPU resources were detrimental to whatever your main task was. Now, with even budget CPUs having 4-6 cores, it's really not an issue. I'm not even talking about telemetry or weather apps, I'm talking about things like search indexing, aggressive superfetch caching, background virus scans, checking for updates, and many more things that are actually beneficial. None of this should be using more than one or maybe two cores on a modern CPU, even then only occasionally. If that level of usage is enough to ramp up your fans to problematic levels then it sounds like your laptop manufacturer skimped on the cooling. I'm guessing your CPU probably hits TjMax when running something like Cinebench - something that is disturbingly common with many laptops these days that often prioritize sleek and thin design over reliability.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Sounds like it's going to take some advanced tactics to tackle this, such as keeping task manager open when you leave your computer idle.

Windows does a lot more in the background now than it did years ago. Back in the single-core era, background tasks using CPU resources were detrimental to whatever your main task was. Now, with even budget CPUs having 4-6 cores, it's really not an issue. I'm not even talking about telemetry or weather apps, I'm talking about things like search indexing, aggressive superfetch caching, background virus scans, checking for updates, and many more things that are actually beneficial. None of this should be using more than one or maybe two cores on a modern CPU, even then only occasionally. If that level of usage is enough to ramp up your fans to problematic levels then it sounds like your laptop manufacturer skimped on the cooling. I'm guessing your CPU probably hits TjMax when running something like Cinebench - something that is disturbingly common with many laptops these days that often prioritize sleek and thin design over reliability.

The fans are not the issue to me.

I hate black boxes. I don't care what they are. If I have a product I want to know what it is doing at all times. No secrets, nothing hidden.

The specifics and details are very important, not just the results.

This, if my PC starts loading up cores and I didn't ask it to, and can't easily tell what exactly it is doing, I am going to assume the worst.

I also don't want them to ever change without my explicit input.

I want absolute control of every little detail at every point in time, only ever forfeiting it by choice.

My PC, my choice, I need to be in control at all times, nothing should happen without me doing it.
 

auntjemima

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The fans are not the issue to me.

I hate black boxes. I don't care what they are. If I have a product I want to know what it is doing at all times. No secrets, nothing hidden.

The specifics and details are very important, not just the results.

This, if my PC starts loading up cores and I didn't ask it to, and can't easily tell what exactly it is doing, I am going to assume the worst.

I also don't want them to ever change without my explicit input.

I want absolute control of every little detail at every point in time, only ever forfeiting it by choice.

My PC, my choice, I need to be in control at all times, nothing should happen without me doing it.
Have you considered Linux?

Edit: I say Linux because what you expect is not going to happen. It's been how many years since windows came out? Hasn't changed and isn't going to.
 
Last edited:

ManofGod

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Agreed.

At the very least they could offer "prosumer" users a version of either the enterprise or embedded Win10 license, but instead like always they just want to strongarm everyone into using whatever they see fit to force down our throats.

Maybe I'm old school, but I want an operating system to be just an operating system. I don't want an ecosystem of services or pre-installed applications, and I sure as hell do not want any kind of "digital assistant".

Why have I had to uninstall OneDrive like 20 times on this one machine alone? I didn't ask for OneDrive. I never want any cloud service from any provider, and I sure as hell don't want some piece of shit cloud storage app that I will never use sitting resident in my task manager eating RAM.

It is so infuriating that they try to force this shit on me and I have to play whack-a-mole (sometimes including registry hacks) every time there is an update to get rid of the next "brilliant" idea some idiot Microsoft programmer had.

That, and there should never under any circumstance be anything named "Xbox" on my work machine. That just annoys the hell out of me. This isn't some child's "battlestation".

Just like Android and iOS, so I guess we are screwed. (Unless you can use Linux but, since this is for work.......) Just use Chris Titus Tech's Windows 10 debloat scripts, it worked for me and I can play all my games, even the Microsoft Games, on my Windows 10 installation, no problem.
 

ManofGod

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I have no problem with background tasks...

...of I select them myself, set them up and configure them the way I want them to run on my terms.

Some random thing someone else decides to just push out to me? That's always going to piss me off.


There should be a few basic rules for software development:

1.) Feel free to include all the bells and whistles in a fresh install, but all new features must be "opt in". If someone has selected to not opt in, or had previously opted out, they should never re-enable themselves on their own

2.) All pre-installed software and features must be uninstallable. Not through some hack you have to research online, but easily and clearly. Camera, Calendar, Phone app, digital assistant, you name it. And by uninstalled, I mean the binaries must be physically removed from my drive, not sitting in waiting somewhere to install themselves again as soon as someone does something like creates a new user account.

3.) All privacy options must always default to the least permissive setting.

4.) Only data absolutely necessary for the functoning of the end users use case may be collected from that user

5.) An existing product may not be used as a springboard to promote or push other new products. Everything must stand on its own. Never use the "foot in the door" method to distribute crap to people they may not want.

6.) No software or component may contact anything on either the LAN or WAN without either being explicitly told to do so by the user, or being intentionally set up and automated by the user.

7.) The software may never lie to you. If it says it is going to do something in a setting (like disable GPS) it MUST disable GPS.

If we could just settle on this being the fundamental commandments of ethical software development, I'd be fine.

In all seriousness, how do you manage not to chuck you phone into a lake or something? I mean, you do not even get to choose what goes on your phone, at all, whether you like it or not. (Basically, you bought the device but you do not own it, at all.)
 

NattyKathy

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Sounds like it's going to take some advanced tactics to tackle this, such as keeping task manager open when you leave your computer idle.

Windows does a lot more in the background now than it did years ago. Back in the single-core era, background tasks using CPU resources were detrimental to whatever your main task was. Now, with even budget CPUs having 4-6 cores, it's really not an issue. I'm not even talking about telemetry or weather apps, I'm talking about things like search indexing, aggressive superfetch caching, background virus scans, checking for updates, and many more things that are actually beneficial. None of this should be using more than one or maybe two cores on a modern CPU, even then only occasionally. If that level of usage is enough to ramp up your fans to problematic levels then it sounds like your laptop manufacturer skimped on the cooling. I'm guessing your CPU probably hits TjMax when running something like Cinebench - something that is disturbingly common with many laptops these days that often prioritize sleek and thin design over reliability.
I'll try to steer back on-point by the end since this is already getting dangerously close to outright OT but
- I have left Task Manager open and if it does catch anything (which it doesn't always because the sneaky background tasks get skittish) I'm left with 9,721 instances of svchost or something to derive meaning from
- Clevo in sig, not a chonky DTR but definitely not a "thin and light" either
- full AVX loads like Cinebench can easily cause 8-core Intel desktop CPUs to hit TjMax if they're not on water or Big Air but I don't run full AVX loads
- CPU is repasted, undervolted, and has custom Turbo profiles & PL1/PL2 via Throttlestop
- I don't think the fan levels under background load are "problematic", rather more "I can notice the computer is doing something when I didn't expect it to be doing something"
- cooling is adequate to sustain 60-70W CPU load indefinitely (all cores 100% at 4Ghz) but falls down at 90-100W CPU (all cores 100% at 4.3Ghz) which isn't a surprise because it's an Intel 14nm 8-core in a laptop. This is a thermal conductivity issue driven by the tiny dense CML die and not a heatsink or airflow issue in my situation; the much larger TU104 three inches away dissipates 115W just fine

but all that's completely orthogonal to my original point which was essentially
...if my PC starts loading up cores and I didn't ask it to, and can't easily tell what exactly it is doing, I am going to assume the worst.

re: alternative OS... I've used Linux as my main OS several times and I'm not doing it again. Windows has its advantages for me but I reserve the right to feel uneasy when my computer is doing weird stuff that I don't understand. Some posts in this thread have helped me understand which feels reassuring and my stance is softening.

I accept that on a modern OS there's just a lot going on in the background. I personally don't need full control at all times but having more knowledge and choice about what's going on in the background without researching and digging thru individual service settings would be nice.

Attempting to go fully back to the original point of the thread, I too would love an option for a more barebones Windows OS without all the compromises of going to LTSC. I want the latest (or at least second-latest) version of Windows, and I want the regular non-enterprise Pro version- but I'd like to be given the choice at time of install to completely opt out of all the extras like Cortana and the ever-growing number of taskbar widgets that all have to be manually disabled after a fresh install and I'd like the OS to accommodate that without the user doing major renovations to the system via gpedit and regedit and stuff (for example- as it stands, "opting out" of Cortana during install doesn't really change much without additional policy tweakz). I'm not totally opposed to that level of tweaking but it's tedious and I'm not exactly a hyperfocused supergenius so the more I have to personally tune settings deep deep inside my OS, the more likely it is I'll accidentally break something.
 

SuperSubZero

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1.) Feel free to include all the bells and whistles in a fresh install, but all new features must be "opt in". If someone has selected to not opt in, or had previously opted out, they should never re-enable themselves on their own
Who defines what a bell or whistle is? Is notepad.exe a bell or whistle? Is Calculator a bell or whistle? Is the command prompt a bell or whistle? Microsoft actually defines the bells and whistles. At one point in the distant past they decided to take Mail and Calendar out of Windows (7?) and make them a separate product. This turned out to be bad for people that wanted those things out of the box. Grandma doesn't grasp the concept of "downloading a mail client." Grandma wants to push the button. Windows is designed for pushing the button.

2.) All pre-installed software and features must be uninstallable. Not through some hack you have to research online, but easily and clearly. Camera, Calendar, Phone app, digital assistant, you name it. And by uninstalled, I mean the binaries must be physically removed from my drive, not sitting in waiting somewhere to install themselves again as soon as someone does something like creates a new user account.
This isn't really practical, because Windows is a Rube Goldberg machine of moving parts, and lots of seemingly unconnected things are linked in unexpected ways. PS- Calendar is uninstallable. As well, the last part implies you're not using MS's standard method for controlling the Start screen. Look up "Layoutmodification.xml" in your search engine of choice.

3.) All privacy options must always default to the least permissive setting.
Nah. As long as the options explain practically what they do, let MS default it however they like. A clean install shows you a big page of scary sliders for privacy stuff as it is.
4.) Only data absolutely necessary for the functoning of the end users use case may be collected from that user
To an extent that's what happens. Code being what it is, and the randomness of what may end up in a crash dump, has MS throw in the legalese that they might accidentally capture unintended data.
5.) An existing product may not be used as a springboard to promote or push other new products. Everything must stand on its own. Never use the "foot in the door" method to distribute crap to people they may not want.
IF MS wants to have a single popup "hey you might wanna consider Office 365" then whatever. Annoying? For about three seconds. Their latest one was something about an editor of some type. That I can't really recall what it even was shows how strongly they pushed it. I clicked the "no" option and it's gone now. As for the OS in general, by going to this "Windows 10-4-eva" model Windows 10 needs to stay current while still being the same OS. It's been out for six years now. SIX! The tech landscape of 2021 ain't what it was in 2015, and while the sudden appearance of a "Meet Now" button may have seemed awkward two years ago, suddenly it's not so crazy. If the weather widget serves no other purpose but to remind me that after however many months in semi-solitary confinement that it's "mostly sunny" today, well, sign of the times I guess.
6.) No software or component may contact anything on either the LAN or WAN without either being explicitly told to do so by the user, or being intentionally set up and automated by the user.
Apple is currently doing a version of this. Apps have to request *insane* amounts of permissions to do things, and they've hopelessly bogged it down in privacy panels and having to allow things and unlock panels and it's just a big stinky mess. Heck, the Mac version of Zoom *never* informs you that you need to enable sharing in a privacy panel until you try to use sharing, and when you do that, you need to drop and rejoin the meeting for it to take effect. The irony is just to show the user how to enable the sharing, I really, really wish they could share the screen with me.

This also allows one to ask "what did the user just 'explicitly allow'?" If I allow mail to be received, do I allow all mail? Some mail? If I allow all mail, am I allowed to complain about spam? At what point do I miss out on something because "you didn't allow us to even inform you that was a possibility." If someone misses a click, they do not allow /r/wallstreetbets to inform them that there's this Gamestop stock thing they wanna buy into and hey it's at $4 right now I have a feeeeeeling!!! Oh, didn't allow *that* message through.
7.) The software may never lie to you. If it says it is going to do something in a setting (like disable GPS) it MUST disable GPS.
Apple got dinged for weirdly defining what "disabling" is and now they are more clear about it. I don't know what Windows does with GPS.
If we could just settle on this being the fundamental commandments of ethical software development, I'd be fine.
There's "ethical" and then there's "the user can't possibly be expected to babysit this." MS doesn't design for people who obsess over every bit that flows through their system and wants to approve every single bit of an email header. They design around "I just want to push the button."
 

Shoganai

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It was mostly because, at the time, it was the only browser that was really worth a shit. So everyone with even a hint of "tech savvy" used it and recommended it to everyone else and their cat. Fast-forward to today and it's a bloated piece of crapware but people still use it because it's basically replaced the ubiquitous "blue E" for internet browsing.
No it’s because Chrome was packaged like malware in every single app installer and people just used it as it kept appearing everywhere so it became the normal browser for most non tech people because they don’t know any better and now 90% of the web is coded for Chrome and Chromium based browsers. Chrome was pushed like an infestation until it spread everywhere.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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No it’s because Chrome was packaged like malware in every single app installer and people just used it as it kept appearing everywhere so it became the normal browser for most non tech people because they don’t know any better and now 90% of the web is coded for Chrome and Chromium based browsers. Chrome was pushed like an infestation until it spread everywhere.

I mean, there also was a time when it was the best browser in town. Back when it first launched it was Chrome, Firefox or IE. (Or maybe Opera, lol).

IE was trash like it has always been

Firefox was very full featured, but rendered slowly and felt a little clunky.

Chrome was buttery smooth, fast and beautifully designed.

I was amazed when I first tried Chrome, but I still switched back to Firefox for a few years to allow Chrome to develop some.more features.

Back then when most of us were more naive about what Google was doing than we are today, it seemed like a good idea to use Chrome. Now I don't want it on any of my machines.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Who defines what a bell or whistle is? Is notepad.exe a bell or whistle? Is Calculator a bell or whistle? Is the command prompt a bell or whistle? Microsoft actually defines the bells and whistles. At one point in the distant past they decided to take Mail and Calendar out of Windows (7?) and make them a separate product. This turned out to be bad for people that wanted those things out of the box. Grandma doesn't grasp the concept of "downloading a mail client." Grandma wants to push the button. Windows is designed for pushing the button.


This isn't really practical, because Windows is a Rube Goldberg machine of moving parts, and lots of seemingly unconnected things are linked in unexpected ways. PS- Calendar is uninstallable. As well, the last part implies you're not using MS's standard method for controlling the Start screen. Look up "Layoutmodification.xml" in your search engine of choice.


Nah. As long as the options explain practically what they do, let MS default it however they like. A clean install shows you a big page of scary sliders for privacy stuff as it is.

To an extent that's what happens. Code being what it is, and the randomness of what may end up in a crash dump, has MS throw in the legalese that they might accidentally capture unintended data.

IF MS wants to have a single popup "hey you might wanna consider Office 365" then whatever. Annoying? For about three seconds. Their latest one was something about an editor of some type. That I can't really recall what it even was shows how strongly they pushed it. I clicked the "no" option and it's gone now. As for the OS in general, by going to this "Windows 10-4-eva" model Windows 10 needs to stay current while still being the same OS. It's been out for six years now. SIX! The tech landscape of 2021 ain't what it was in 2015, and while the sudden appearance of a "Meet Now" button may have seemed awkward two years ago, suddenly it's not so crazy. If the weather widget serves no other purpose but to remind me that after however many months in semi-solitary confinement that it's "mostly sunny" today, well, sign of the times I guess.

Apple is currently doing a version of this. Apps have to request *insane* amounts of permissions to do things, and they've hopelessly bogged it down in privacy panels and having to allow things and unlock panels and it's just a big stinky mess. Heck, the Mac version of Zoom *never* informs you that you need to enable sharing in a privacy panel until you try to use sharing, and when you do that, you need to drop and rejoin the meeting for it to take effect. The irony is just to show the user how to enable the sharing, I really, really wish they could share the screen with me.

This also allows one to ask "what did the user just 'explicitly allow'?" If I allow mail to be received, do I allow all mail? Some mail? If I allow all mail, am I allowed to complain about spam? At what point do I miss out on something because "you didn't allow us to even inform you that was a possibility." If someone misses a click, they do not allow /r/wallstreetbets to inform them that there's this Gamestop stock thing they wanna buy into and hey it's at $4 right now I have a feeeeeeling!!! Oh, didn't allow *that* message through.

Apple got dinged for weirdly defining what "disabling" is and now they are more clear about it. I don't know what Windows does with GPS.

There's "ethical" and then there's "the user can't possibly be expected to babysit this." MS doesn't design for people who obsess over every bit that flows through their system and wants to approve every single bit of an email header. They design around "I just want to push the button."


Either way, some of these things are simple to disable, others are less so. It just really bothers me that keeping Windows clean required playing a never ending game of whack-a-mole just waiting to see what the next useless feature to surprise me is going to be.

I understand there are people out there who want an all.in one solution. And that is great, give it to them, but at least have an option for the rest of us. It's not like it would amount to more SKU's. Releases that behave more like my ideal (Enterprise, embedded) already exist. Just let me buy them!
 

primetime

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Took me all of 30 seconds to disable/remove all the new taskbar stuff after the update. (I really didnt think it was a big deal to disable)
 

SuperSubZero

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Either way, some of these things are simple to disable, others are less so. It just really bothers me that keeping Windows clean required playing a never ending game of whack-a-mole just waiting to see what the next useless feature to surprise me is going to be.
You need to define what "clean" is. Your "clean" and my "clean" and grandma's "clean" and the CEO's "clean" aren't the same things. MS has to balance the screams of "too much stuff" and "WTF WHY DIDN'T IT COME WITH THIS?!" They have been slowly phasing out stuff, they axed those Finance and Sports etc. apps a while ago, the Messaging app nobody ever used is gone, They are starting to pare back their 3D modeling stuff, and Internet Explorer finally looks like it's going to be gone next year. Solitaire ain't going anywhere, cuz grandma and the CEO want that.
I understand there are people out there who want an all.in one solution. And that is great, give it to them, but at least have an option for the rest of us. It's not like it would amount to more SKU's. Releases that behave more like my ideal (Enterprise, embedded) already exist. Just let me buy them!
You may want to look at Windows 10 deployment documentation. It seems odd, but they do explain MS's official ways to tweak the heck out of Windows prior to installation.
 

AzixTGO

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I wasn't bothered by this. Was actually hoping to find what other changes might have been made but didn't see any. I ended up disabling this just because (don't need so w.e.). I also couldn't find how to setup the weather information at the time though that now looks like a noob issue.
 

pendragon1

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I ended up disabling this just because (don't need so w.e.). I also couldn't find how to setup the weather information at the time though that now looks like a noob issue.
hover over the weather section and then click the 3 dots in the top right BUT i think most of it is tied to your ms account settings. when i click "more settings" it opens a ms webpage.
 

AzixTGO

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They even have the weather text blurry. Mine was and I see OPs own was as well. Did they not care or couldn't find a way to fix it?
hover over the weather section and then click the 3 dots in the top right BUT i think most of it is tied to your ms account settings. when i click "more settings" it opens a ms webpage.
Yeah I noticed those dots in OPs picture. Completely missed it when I was searching.
 

cybereality

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I kind of like it. Though it shows me a lot of irrelevant news (I have added interests already).
 

AzixTGO

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looks fine to me. got your glasses on? ;)
100% its blurred relative to everything else
Screenshot 2021-06-11 204907.jpg
 

cybereality

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It's blurry for everyone, there are long Reddit threads about it.

Oddly, if you set your Windows display scaling to something other than 100%, then it is clear.

I just set 125% to test and it looks perfect (but of course everything else is huge and I can't leave it like this).
 

GoldenTiger

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It's blurry for everyone, there are long Reddit threads about it.

Oddly, if you set your Windows display scaling to something other than 100%, then it is clear.

I just set 125% to test and it looks perfect (but of course everything else is huge and I can't leave it like this).
Not blurry on my 4k monitor at 150 percent. Looks gorgeous as everything else does :D.
 

Mazzspeed

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Yes, but the whiners were against having to turn it off.
Well it's their PC and they didn't ask for it. Just like they don't ask for the constant manipulation regarding Microsoft accounts, automated driver updates that usually break more than they fix, and a new Settings panel that's all fat fingered and in no way makes effective use of screen real estate on a desktop.

Effectively, they didn't ask for their desktop to be turned into a tablet.
 

cybereality

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I even have a 2-in-1 laptop w/ Win 10, and the tablet mode is not great.

It's a good idea, but the implementation is junk, nowhere near the ease of use of Android/iOS.

If the tablet mode was as good as Android (or better) I could see the use, but currently it's like the worst of both worlds.
 

pendragon1

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It's blurry for everyone, there are long Reddit threads about it.

Oddly, if you set your Windows display scaling to something other than 100%, then it is clear.

I just set 125% to test and it looks perfect (but of course everything else is huge and I can't leave it like this).
my scaling is at 125 for my 50". must be that then.
 

toast0

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It's blurry for everyone, there are long Reddit threads about it.

Oddly, if you set your Windows display scaling to something other than 100%, then it is clear.

I just set 125% to test and it looks perfect (but of course everything else is huge and I can't leave it like this).
Ugh. This is why Software Developer in Test was such a good thing for Microsoft. At least one of those people would have their scaling set to 100% (which is like where it should be!!! why buy more pixels if you're just going to throw them away in software)
 

GoldenTiger

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Ugh. This is why Software Developer in Test was such a good thing for Microsoft. At least one of those people would have their scaling set to 100% (which is like where it should be!!! why buy more pixels if you're just going to throw them away in software)
More pixels used for a given area of something (in this case, each character of text) means it's more detailed. Currently running a 28" 4k60 panel.
 

Domingo

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On my home machine (4K with 200% scaling) it looks just like everything else. On my work PC (1440p at 100% scaling) it's blurry and pretty ugly.
 

ZodaEX

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On my home machine (4K with 200% scaling) it looks just like everything else. On my work PC (1440p at 100% scaling) it's blurry and pretty ugly.

Your employer probably cheaped out and bought crappy monitors. The computers at my job don't even have speakers.
 

hardware_failure

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How can I make WIN + Pause bring up normal control panel Advanced system properties instead of the stupid win10 ghettro "About" screen? (yes theres a link on the right for it after that but it disgusts me to even have to see it for 2 sec)

Thanks.
 

pendragon1

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How can I make WIN + Pause bring up normal control panel Advanced system properties instead of the stupid win10 ghettro "About" screen? (yes theres a link on the right for it after that but it disgusts me to even have to see it for 2 sec)

Thanks.
not that its on topic... but autohotkey.
 

Algrim

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I hadn’t realized that my laptop updated and thus was concerned when I saw a warning about 109 temperature, thinking the warning was about the laptop temperature. Turns out it was the new weather app notification (gotta love Arizona ’spring-time’ temperatures)…
 

ZeqOBpf6

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Whatever, there's at least 30 states with worse weather than AZ and it's probably more like 40.
 

hardware_failure

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Mar 21, 2008
Messages
1,291
not that its on topic... but autohotkey
Thanks for the tip, but it would be irrelevant where I could install it ie at home, might re-join my domain once or twice a year.

Its relevant when Im imaging 20+ machines a day with an image where anything even close to autohotkey is not allowed or desired.
 
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