"Windows 10 Destroyed Our Data!" Microsoft Hauled into US Court

kandrey89

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Don't EULAs state that the authors have no responsibility of what the program/OS might do? :p
 

BulletDust

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If your statement were factually provable, I would agree with you. Unfortunately I never once saw a single provable example of Win 10 auto installing. I won't disagree that MS pulled some shady shit and made it less than clear, but at the end of the day every single example was ultimately user error. Now if you want to have a lawsuit against MS for the aforementioned shady shit and consumer deception, then I am 100% on board with supporting that. However the argument of "Win 10 just auto installed and deleted all my shit" Bullshit..period. User fucking error every single fucking time, you aren't a victim you are a dumbass.
So defensive over an OS that's sub par at best and hardly worth raising a sweat over!

Furthermore, I can assure you that you are completely wrong regarding the forced update from Windows 7 to Windows 10. This is a well documented, apparent 'mistake' on behalf of Microsoft that's well discussed among tech forums and the like. It's manipulative and underhanded at best and socially engineered to trick unsuspecting users to inadvertently upgrade to Windows 10.

http://www.infoworld.com/article/30...ded-users-to-windows-10-without-their-ok.html

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...ly-installs-without-permission-complain-users

This should clear things up fully, so there's really no point dragging your point out unnecessarily.
 
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BulletDust

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Don't EULAs state that the authors have no responsibility of what the program/OS might do? :p
Doesn't the EULA state that they can do whatever they want with your own, valuable, personal data? Furthermore, if you want to use Windows 10 do you have any other option but to agree to the EULA?

Modern society, it's a fucking joke. Apparently the Apple EULA states that you won't make nuclear weapons with their products?
 

Dekoth-E-

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So defensive over an OS that's sub par at best and hardly worth raising a sweat over!

Furthermore, I can assure you that you are completely wrong regarding the forced update from Windows 7 to Windows 10. This is a well documented, apparent 'mistake' on behalf of Microsoft that's well discussed among tech forums and the like. It's manipulative and underhanded at best and socially engineered to trick unsuspecting users to inadvertently upgrade to Windows 10.

http://www.infoworld.com/article/30...ded-users-to-windows-10-without-their-ok.html

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...ly-installs-without-permission-complain-users

This should clear things up fully, so there's really no point dragging your point out unnecessarily.
Defensive? I most certainly do not support Win 10 or defend it. There is a list of reasons it is not installed on my computer. Just because I'm calling out bullshit for being bullshit doesn't suddenly make me some windows 10 defender. The entire auto install debacle was an entirely unfounded and non provable issue that flew in the face of anyone who has installed windows for a living. It got picked up by a bunch of ill informed journalists like the ones you linked and purported as fact when there was in fact no actual factual proof. The reality is and anyone who has spent any amount of time in IT knows this, End users lie all the time about mistakes they made on a PC claiming "The PC just did it on its own". I know this might be a new concept for some people but computers don't just do shit on their own. This isn't some new concept with win 10, it has existed since the very beginning. People don't want to admit they screwed up so they look for a convenient "out". The Auto install nonsense got wide spread because of the shady bullshit MS was pulling with the popups and prompts to install. They were extremely aggressive about it and played all kinds of underhanded trickery. However at the end of the day, win 10 did not in any documented instance install on a PC without a human agreeing to something at some point. They may have been tricked into thinking they declined because they didn't read close, but that doesn't mean they didn't agree. Like I said, Sue MS over the very easily proven wrong things they did, not over straight up bullshit that any decent field tech knows is 100% user error.
 

naib

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Doesn't the EULA state that they can do whatever they want with your own, valuable, personal data? Furthermore, if you want to use Windows 10 do you have any other option but to agree to the EULA?

Modern society, it's a fucking joke. Apparently the Apple EULA states that you won't make nuclear weapons with their products?
Thats the funny part... An apple product is more than capable of being the brain of a nuclear weapon BUT do apple think those that bui
Defensive? I most certainly do not support Win 10 or defend it. There is a list of reasons it is not installed on my computer. Just because I'm calling out bullshit for being bullshit doesn't suddenly make me some windows 10 defender. The entire auto install debacle was an entirely unfounded and non provable issue that flew in the face of anyone who has installed windows for a living. It got picked up by a bunch of ill informed journalists like the ones you linked and purported as fact when there was in fact no actual factual proof. The reality is and anyone who has spent any amount of time in IT knows this, End users lie all the time about mistakes they made on a PC claiming "The PC just did it on its own". I know this might be a new concept for some people but computers don't just do shit on their own. This isn't some new concept with win 10, it has existed since the very beginning. People don't want to admit they screwed up so they look for a convenient "out". The Auto install nonsense got wide spread because of the shady bullshit MS was pulling with the popups and prompts to install. They were extremely aggressive about it and played all kinds of underhanded trickery. However at the end of the day, win 10 did not in any documented instance install on a PC without a human agreeing to something at some point. They may have been tricked into thinking they declined because they didn't read close, but that doesn't mean they didn't agree. Like I said, Sue MS over the very easily proven wrong things they did, not over straight up bullshit that any decent field tech knows is 100% user error.
EXCEPT the explicitly broke their own HID guidelines for this specific case... [X] means close&cancel and it is part of their guidelines... they silently changed this for ~ 1month such that [X] doesn't mean close&cancel but ACCEPT

I posted a direct link to MS's own HID and equally their retraction on this...
To claim this is BS and it is user error is skating on THIN ICE when a change to the UI was not stated & equally reverted.

They fucked up, they used underhand tactics to get what they want and they deserve to be made an example of such that noone else tries shit like this
 

BulletDust

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Defensive? I most certainly do not support Win 10 or defend it. There is a list of reasons it is not installed on my computer. Just because I'm calling out bullshit for being bullshit doesn't suddenly make me some windows 10 defender. The entire auto install debacle was an entirely unfounded and non provable issue that flew in the face of anyone who has installed windows for a living. It got picked up by a bunch of ill informed journalists like the ones you linked and purported as fact when there was in fact no actual factual proof. The reality is and anyone who has spent any amount of time in IT knows this, End users lie all the time about mistakes they made on a PC claiming "The PC just did it on its own". I know this might be a new concept for some people but computers don't just do shit on their own. This isn't some new concept with win 10, it has existed since the very beginning. People don't want to admit they screwed up so they look for a convenient "out". The Auto install nonsense got wide spread because of the shady bullshit MS was pulling with the popups and prompts to install. They were extremely aggressive about it and played all kinds of underhanded trickery. However at the end of the day, win 10 did not in any documented instance install on a PC without a human agreeing to something at some point. They may have been tricked into thinking they declined because they didn't read close, but that doesn't mean they didn't agree. Like I said, Sue MS over the very easily proven wrong things they did, not over straight up bullshit that any decent field tech knows is 100% user error.
As a field tech working on PC's owned by the masses I see the underhanded tactics used by Microsoft. You think you're calling out bullshit? Against who? The whole gawd damn internet? Every individual that posted how clicking a red 'X' briefly had another meaning that's since been classed as a mistake by Microsoft?

No matter what your feelings towards Microsoft, you are acting like a naive fool. The bulk of the masses that use Windows know nothing about PC's, and what Microsoft did was manipulative, underhanded and wrong - Perhaps the fact that you can't see such a fact is the very reason we're becoming a society that believes we have no option but to pull out pants down to large corporations?

Furthermore, use your PC during the hours set aside by big brother for updating, or fail to check in with the notification centre to check if it's ok with big brother if you just quickly reboot your PC and I can assure you there's every chance that PC you no longer own will just reboot to install an update no matter what you're doing or it will sit there telling you not to turn off your PC while updates are being applied when rebooting - A process that could take anywhere from 15 mins to numerous hours, hell, the process could fail altogether, it happens all the time.

I made my point. My point still stands.
 

aokman

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Doesn't the EULA state that they can do whatever they want with your own, valuable, personal data? Furthermore, if you want to use Windows 10 do you have any other option but to agree to the EULA?

Modern society, it's a fucking joke. Apparently the Apple EULA states that you won't make nuclear weapons with their products?
Ironically OSX is an amazing OS with no real bullshit to put up with. I use macs just so I dont have to use Windows but can still get my work done.

People need to divert their Apple hate to MS for a while...
 

Shotglass01

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The bulk of the masses that use Windows know nothing about PC's, and what Microsoft did was manipulative, underhanded and wrong - Perhaps the fact that you can't see such a fact is the very reason we're becoming a society that believes we have no option but to pull out pants down to large corporations?
So much this. MS completely screwed the pooch on the 'update' process that was 7 to 10. It literally should have been only one or two pop up's with a clear yes upgrade or no leave me the hell alone. Instead, they hammered users sys trays with upgrade now or your PC will die!
 

nilepez

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I saw this. Maybe it means something. Maybe it is fake.

That indicates you scheduled an upgrade. In the past I tested scenarios where people said they were forced to upgrade (i.e. they had no way to back out) and it always required them to say I want to install multiple times before that point. Scheduling I didn't, though I know I did schedule it before the initial release, but I was able to postpone it indefinitely. I did, however, accidentally install the OS once. I can't remember if I was able to stop it (I know I tried) or if I ended up letting it finish and then I reverted, but I did revert installs once or twice and it took 10 minutes (shockingly fast).
 

Dekoth-E-

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As a field tech working on PC's owned by the masses I see the underhanded tactics used by Microsoft. You think you're calling out bullshit? Against who? The whole gawd damn internet? Every individual that posted how clicking a red 'X' briefly had another meaning that's since been classed as a mistake by Microsoft?

No matter what your feelings towards Microsoft, you are acting like a naive fool. The bulk of the masses that use Windows know nothing about PC's, and what Microsoft did was manipulative, underhanded and wrong - Perhaps the fact that you can't see such a fact is the very reason we're becoming a society that believes we have no option but to pull out pants down to large corporations?

Furthermore, use your PC during the hours set aside by big brother for updating, or fail to check in with the notification centre to check if it's ok with big brother if you just quickly reboot your PC and I can assure you there's every chance that PC you no longer own will just reboot to install an update no matter what you're doing or it will sit there telling you not to turn off your PC while updates are being applied when rebooting - A process that could take anywhere from 15 mins to numerous hours, hell, the process could fail altogether, it happens all the time.

I made my point. My point still stands.
Did you actually read what I said? or are you just making assumptions at this point? I clearly stated multiple times in this thread and more times than I can count before that what MS did was "Manipulative, underhanded, and wrong". I never once said otherwise..Jesus christ..read what people actually wrote. Throw up a class action lawsuit against MS on "THOSE" merits and you have my support 100%. All I'm stating is that a lawsuit claiming user error no matter how ignorant the user isn't one I'm willing to back. Users are stupid, I agree with that but that doesn't mean Win 10 magically installed itself and deleted their data. That is bullshit plain and simple.
 

naib

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Did you actually read what I said? or are you just making assumptions at this point? I clearly stated multiple times in this thread and more times than I can count before that what MS did was "Manipulative, underhanded, and wrong". I never once said otherwise..Jesus christ..read what people actually wrote. Throw up a class action lawsuit against MS on "THOSE" merits and you have my support 100%. All I'm stating is that a lawsuit claiming user error no matter how ignorant the user isn't one I'm willing to back. Users are stupid, I agree with that but that doesn't mean Win 10 magically installed itself and deleted their data. That is bullshit plain and simple.
If the user click CANCEL and it install IT IS FUCKING MAGIC TO THE COMMON USER!

how the hell are they to know that Microsoft redefined EXIT/CANCEL to be ACCEPT!


If a petrol station has a pump labeled as PETROL and you use it weekly and get petrol and then one day it then provides you with DIESEL completely trashing your engine... who is to blame? the user who did what the user interface (the fucking signs indicated) or the damn pump owner who changed what was in a particular tank
 

Vermillion

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Did you actually read what I said? or are you just making assumptions at this point? I clearly stated multiple times in this thread and more times than I can count before that what MS did was "Manipulative, underhanded, and wrong". I never once said otherwise..Jesus christ..read what people actually wrote. Throw up a class action lawsuit against MS on "THOSE" merits and you have my support 100%. All I'm stating is that a lawsuit claiming user error no matter how ignorant the user isn't one I'm willing to back. Users are stupid, I agree with that but that doesn't mean Win 10 magically installed itself and deleted their data. That is bullshit plain and simple.
I'll just leave this here.

https://www.thurrott.com/windows/wi...fts-upgrade-deceptions-undermining-windows-10
 

ianken

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Hey now, lets not drag actual experience and facts into the matter when misinformed press click-bait is the order of the day!

Defensive? I most certainly do not support Win 10 or defend it. There is a list of reasons it is not installed on my computer. Just because I'm calling out bullshit for being bullshit doesn't suddenly make me some windows 10 defender. The entire auto install debacle was an entirely unfounded and non provable issue that flew in the face of anyone who has installed windows for a living. It got picked up by a bunch of ill informed journalists like the ones you linked and purported as fact when there was in fact no actual factual proof. The reality is and anyone who has spent any amount of time in IT knows this, End users lie all the time about mistakes they made on a PC claiming "The PC just did it on its own". I know this might be a new concept for some people but computers don't just do shit on their own. This isn't some new concept with win 10, it has existed since the very beginning. People don't want to admit they screwed up so they look for a convenient "out". The Auto install nonsense got wide spread because of the shady bullshit MS was pulling with the popups and prompts to install. They were extremely aggressive about it and played all kinds of underhanded trickery. However at the end of the day, win 10 did not in any documented instance install on a PC without a human agreeing to something at some point. They may have been tricked into thinking they declined because they didn't read close, but that doesn't mean they didn't agree. Like I said, Sue MS over the very easily proven wrong things they did, not over straight up bullshit that any decent field tech knows is 100% user error.
 

Meeho

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Yes, really, it depends on what you're switching to. Back on XP, I could get away with swapping and just updating the drivers. Not on 7. I tried it as an experiment before, and I got occasional blue screens after the fact and did notice a drop in performance with odd stall-outs every now and then. Windows 7 does NOT like you switching motherboard chipsets, it's going to run better doing a clean install. I'm sure some combinations are less volatile than others, but it really can be an issue.
Sorry, but it was probably PEBKAC. I've swapped whole platforms with Win 7 dozens of times and never had a single issue, as have many others. Intel->Intel across generations and Intel<->AMD both, various GPUs included.
 

lcpiper

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....snip....................... to shareholders of other companies that this shit does not fly.
"Snowball's chance in Hell" comes to mind.

I agree with you, I just don't hold out much hope for such a thing coming to pass.
 

lcpiper

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Who the fuck upgrades the software in their car? I've never done it and I don't know anyone that's done it. I suppose the mechanic might do it, but I have no idea what process he goes through to do it or if there are sometimes problems when they do it.
First time for me was my 2015 Challenger, they sent the chip right to my mailbox with the instructions. Said I could do it or take it to the dealership, I did it with no issues. Not scared to do it again either.

All I had to do was put the chip into the slot with the car off, turn the car on, let it do it's thing, and turn it off again. It was pretty hard to fuck up, you just had to have enough gas to let the car idle for 25 minutes and leave the garage door open.

Actually I forgot the garage door so I'm a little less than I was o_O
 
D

Deleted member 184142

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Don't forget about this little gem: http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...illing-alienware-and-clevo-lcd-panels.779449/

Fucked my M18X R2 THREE GODDAMN times in a row. Cost me a bundle in new screens because it wasn't under warranty.

Fuck Dell, fuck Microsoft, and to a lesser extent fuck Nvidia.
I installed Win10 on a number of computers, including my gaming desktop and server, my AW laptop however, after MS saying it was suited for upgrade and Dell/AW website ALSO saying it was ready for upgrading to Win10 I did....BSOD, tried everything to fix, fresh install, still nothing. Had I been a non tech person, I can only imagine how this would have gone down. Myself I just swapped back to Win7 and just a few months ago tried it out again, seems the issue with it was fixed as it runs just fine now. However, for a normal user, that would be the death of that computer for all practical reasons.
 

Meeho

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I installed Win10 on a number of computers, including my gaming desktop and server, my AW laptop however, after MS saying it was suited for upgrade and Dell/AW website ALSO saying it was ready for upgrading to Win10 I did....BSOD, tried everything to fix, fresh install, still nothing. Had I been a non tech person, I can only imagine how this would have gone down. Myself I just swapped back to Win7 and just a few months ago tried it out again, seems the issue with it was fixed as it runs just fine now. However, for a normal user, that would be the death of that computer for all practical reasons.
At least it didn't brick your laptop screen.
 

BulletDust

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Did you actually read what I said? or are you just making assumptions at this point? I clearly stated multiple times in this thread and more times than I can count before that what MS did was "Manipulative, underhanded, and wrong". I never once said otherwise..Jesus christ..read what people actually wrote. Throw up a class action lawsuit against MS on "THOSE" merits and you have my support 100%. All I'm stating is that a lawsuit claiming user error no matter how ignorant the user isn't one I'm willing to back. Users are stupid, I agree with that but that doesn't mean Win 10 magically installed itself and deleted their data. That is bullshit plain and simple.
Yeah, I did. You cannot claim user ignorance when Microsoft deliberately engineered their notifications to install Windows 10 if the user simply closed the dialogue box by clicking an icon that, up until that point, performed a function that was the polar opposite to it's temporary meaning. It was underhanded, it most likely did result in data loss and software compatibility issues and MS need to be held accountable for that - Not the users.

I had customers that tuned their PC on one morning to be greeted by Windows 10, it came as a complete surprise to them and they were not happy.
 

lcpiper

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Yeah, I did. You cannot claim user ignorance when Microsoft deliberately engineered their notifications to install Windows 10 if the user simply closed the dialogue box by clicking an icon that, up until that point, performed a function that was the polar opposite to it's temporary meaning. It was underhanded, it most likely did result in data loss and software compatibility issues and MS need to be held accountable for that - Not the users.

I had customers that tuned their PC on one morning to be greeted by Windows 10, it came as a complete surprise to them and they were not happy.

I don't know how it happened for other people. I know for me it was a simple thing. I was presented with an option. The option was easy to understand, and the first time through it went flawless.

Then I read how I could use Powershell to disable some shit I didn't really want like Cortana, and I destroyed my install.

So I rolled back and installed Win10 over again and left Powershell the fuck alone because I was too damned tired and had wasted too much of my weekend to go for a third lap around the track.

Now if others were confused or if the behavior of the upgrade interface changed I can't say. But it was pretty straight forward for me when I did it.
 

BulletDust

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I don't know how it happened for other people. I know for me it was a simple thing. I was presented with an option. The option was easy to understand, and the first time through it went flawless.

Then I read how I could use Powershell to disable some shit I didn't really want like Cortana, and I destroyed my install.

So I rolled back and installed Win10 over again and left Powershell the fuck alone because I was too damned tired and had wasted too much of my weekend to go for a third lap around the track.

Now if others were confused or if the behavior of the upgrade interface changed I can't say. But it was pretty straight forward for me when I did it.
Microsoft used far more than just one method to manipulate users to install Windows 10 on their machines. Their underhanded tactics kept evolving.
 

Dekoth-E-

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Yeah, I did. You cannot claim user ignorance when Microsoft deliberately engineered their notifications to install Windows 10 .

Sure I can, I encountered every single one of the popups during that time. Guess what? I successfully navigated them all and Win 10 never auto installed on a single machine I was in control of. So yes..I can in fact claim user ignorance because it was in fact user ignorance. Once again, Sue MS for shitty underhanded tactics that are absolutely to be scorned. However there was and remains absolutely zero proof that a single machine ever "Auto" installed without a mistake on the part of the user. Sorry, I did PC support for far too many years and have heard that excuse too many times over the years about just about every possible lost data, virus, Os problem and everything in between to buy that for a single second. "I don't know how it happened! my PC just does things on its own!"

Bull Shit.
 

BulletDust

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Sure I can, I encountered every single one of the popups during that time. Guess what? I successfully navigated them all and Win 10 never auto installed on a single machine I was in control of. So yes..I can in fact claim user ignorance because it was in fact user ignorance. Once again, Sue MS for shitty underhanded tactics that are absolutely to be scorned. However there was and remains absolutely zero proof that a single machine ever "Auto" installed without a mistake on the part of the user. Sorry, I did PC support for far too many years and have heard that excuse too many times over the years about just about every possible lost data, virus, Os problem and everything in between to buy that for a single second. "I don't know how it happened! my PC just does things on its own!"

Bull Shit.
My point's been made. If you want to go on some bullshit tangent about the update not installing by itself with no concept of the computing capability of most of the population out there and how underhanded, manipulative tactics are perceived by such people - I'm not really interested.
 

naib

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Sure I can, I encountered every single one of the popups during that time. Guess what? I successfully navigated them all and Win 10 never auto installed on a single machine I was in control of. So yes..I can in fact claim user ignorance because it was in fact user ignorance. Once again, Sue MS for shitty underhanded tactics that are absolutely to be scorned. However there was and remains absolutely zero proof that a single machine ever "Auto" installed without a mistake on the part of the user. Sorry, I did PC support for far too many years and have heard that excuse too many times over the years about just about every possible lost data, virus, Os problem and everything in between to buy that for a single second. "I don't know how it happened! my PC just does things on its own!"

Bull Shit.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36367221
https://www.thurrott.com/windows/wi...fts-upgrade-deceptions-undermining-windows-10
https://kotaku.com/windows-10s-upgrading-tricks-have-gotten-more-insidious-1778689116

the 1st magical part is the above 3 links are from a thread where you were shilling for MS when this all occured.
This next set are GOLDEN


https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...o-information-on-scheduling-and-notifications
Note: If you click on the red "X", the screen will close and no further action is needed. This notification is designed to appear every few days until you choose one of the options provided above.
YET 10months ago this is what the page stated:
This notification means your Windows 10 upgrade will occur at the time indicated, unless you select either Upgrade now or “Click here to change upgrade schedule or cancel scheduled upgrade”. If you click on OK or on the red “X”, you’re all set for the upgrade and there is nothing further to do.
https://hardforum.com/threads/warni...all-on-your-pc.1894415/page-4#post-1042313474

as referenced:
https://www.groovypost.com/news/mic...ndows-10-upgrade-notification-and-scheduling/
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...-upgrade/0c6d11b5-8566-465e-b835-af20b7d5e3f3
http://mashable.com/2016/06/28/windows-10-upgrade-snafu-analysis/#_AucuowGxiqI
https://www.eightforums.com/windows...10-upgrade-info-scheduling-notifications.html
https://www.onmsft.com/news/windows-10-upgrade-misunderstanding-confusion-led-accidental-installs


Microsoft's own HIG
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/dn742502(v=vs.85).aspx
Title bar controls
Use the title bar controls as follows:

  • Close. All primary and secondary windows with a standard window frame should have a Close button on the title bar. Clicking Close has the effect of canceling or closing the window.
you see that? Microsoft's own Human Interface Guidelines states all window frames should have a CLOSE button & it shall have the same effect as cancelling



But sure carry on shilling, carry on denying the evidence, evidence from MICROSOFT own domain , that they changed UI for no other reason but to get installs
 
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Dekoth-E-

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The two of you are really special, you are just bent on ignoring my one and only point and this insipid assumption that I'm somehow defending MS when I'm in fact not. I really fail to understand how the two of you can't understand such a basic concept That Yes MS did shitty stuff to trick people into clicking but that doesn't mean people suddenly didn't click. Either way until the two of you figure out some basic debating skills instead of resorting to "hur dur you're a shill" while continuing to post the same irrelevant crap over and over.
 

naib

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sure users clicked BUT they clicked CLOSE.

what would your expectation of clicking CLOSE be? based upon MS's own HIG?
 

BulletDust

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The two of you are really special, you are just bent on ignoring my one and only point and this insipid assumption that I'm somehow defending MS when I'm in fact not. I really fail to understand how the two of you can't understand such a basic concept That Yes MS did shitty stuff to trick people into clicking but that doesn't mean people suddenly didn't click. Either way until the two of you figure out some basic debating skills instead of resorting to "hur dur you're a shill" while continuing to post the same irrelevant crap over and over.
Golden,

You know there's another form of software that's socially engineered to be inadvertently opened by the user, it's called malware, and yes, it's designed so that the knowledgeable masses will fall for it's heavily disguised installer as if they didn't fall for it malware would not be the plague it is today on the Windows platform.

There's only one special person in this bullshit conversation....
 

lcpiper

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The two of you are really special, you are just bent on ignoring my one and only point and this insipid assumption that I'm somehow defending MS when I'm in fact not. I really fail to understand how the two of you can't understand such a basic concept That Yes MS did shitty stuff to trick people into clicking but that doesn't mean people suddenly didn't click. Either way until the two of you figure out some basic debating skills instead of resorting to "hur dur you're a shill" while continuing to post the same irrelevant crap over and over.
I feel your pain, I do I do.

See, you can't disagree with someone about anything specific without automatically becoming a shill for whoever it is they blindly hate.

You are a MS Shill, I'm an NSA shill.

Wanna go somewhere together and shill ?

Champion shills forever !

Wonder-Shill Powers Activate !

Shape of .. a wiretap warrant
Form of ... a Thumb Drive






Yea I ate my sillios, this morning
(Honey Nut Cheerios actually)
 

Dekoth-E-

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
7,599
I feel your pain, I do I do.

See, you can't disagree with someone about anything specific without automatically becoming a shill for whoever it is they blindly hate.

You are a MS Shill, I'm an NSA shill.

Wanna go somewhere together and shill ?

Champion shills forever !

Wonder-Shill Powers Activate !

Shape of .. a wiretap warrant
Form of ... a Thumb Drive






Yea I ate my sillios, this morning
(Honey Nut Cheerios actually)
Oh god I just about choked laughing.
 

lcpiper

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 16, 2008
Messages
10,611
sure users clicked BUT they clicked CLOSE.

what would your expectation of clicking CLOSE be? based upon MS's own HIG?
Umm, the HIG is for developers to use in order to standardize functionality within the OS right?

Never heard of "Do as I say, not as I do" ?

Hitting the X does not automatically always cancel an action, sometimes it just closes a window without killing the task linked to the window. It's called poor coding and it happens, even to MS.

This also doesn't mean it was done on purpose with malign intent, not when there is a button within the window that says "Cancel" that does work as it should. Anyone who clicks the red X thinking that this always works properly is ignorant of the reality that sometimes even programmers fuck up.
 

nilepez

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jan 21, 2005
Messages
11,672
I feel your pain, I do I do.

See, you can't disagree with someone about anything specific without automatically becoming a shill for whoever it is they blindly hate.

You are a MS Shill, I'm an NSA shill.

Wanna go somewhere together and shill ?

Champion shills forever !

Wonder-Shill Powers Activate !

Shape of .. a wiretap warrant
Form of ... a Thumb Drive






Yea I ate my sillios, this morning
(Honey Nut Cheerios actually)
I fairness to those critics from years gone by (I was one of them), you've mellowed over the last 5 or 6 years. Your arguments are far more nuanced than I recall from years gone by (but maybe it's just me that's changed...IDK).

Bottom line is we all argue and most of the time we do so in good faith. This isn't one of those times. It's best for him to pull out his communicator, and have Scotty beam him up.
 

nilepez

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jan 21, 2005
Messages
11,672
Umm, the HIG is for developers to use in order to standardize functionality within the OS right?

Never heard of "Do as I say, not as I do" ?

Hitting the X does not automatically always cancel an action, sometimes it just closes a window without killing the task linked to the window. It's called poor coding and it happens, even to MS.

This also doesn't mean it was done on purpose with malign intent, not when there is a button within the window that says "Cancel" that does work as it should. Anyone who clicks the red X thinking that this always works properly is ignorant of the reality that sometimes even programmers fuck up.
speak for yourself. My code is always perfect. I don't even bother testing it anymore, because it's a waste of time. ;)
 

BulletDust

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 17, 2016
Messages
6,057
This is the single most retarded discussion I have ever had the intense displeasure of participating in.

Microsoft were caught out deliberately being underhanded and manipulative in their approach to forcing Windows 10 on users and that's OK?

Has education in the States dropped a few points?
 

lcpiper

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 16, 2008
Messages
10,611
I fairness to those critics from years gone by (I was one of them), you've mellowed over the last 5 or 6 years. Your arguments are far more nuanced than I recall from years gone by (but maybe it's just me that's changed...IDK).

Bottom line is we all argue and most of the time we do so in good faith. This isn't one of those times. It's best for him to pull out his communicator, and have Scotty beam him up.
He is perfectly capable of re-reading what's been said and deciding if he is off or not.

I realized that early on I came out too harsh and accusatory. I made combatants when I never needed to.

I think someone used the term "arrogant" ?

Perhaps that shoe did fit .... on occasion. It probably will again.

I had help as well. The more I keep pointing out bad media clowns pretending to be newsmen, the easier they are for everyone else to spot. I mean we all actual do realize that the media tries to play us, it's just that when that we ALL like to forget it when it's convenient to a topic the is near and dear.

Is there anyone here more serious about linking to information that backs up what I say? I'm freakin pathological about it. A pathelogical linker, I have PLD :unsure:

Anyone ever thought it ironic, that the guy who claims the media is always lying to us, is the one that links to shit the most?

humm hum hum ..... :sneaky:

I am trying to learn that I don't have to beat people into submission and make them agree with me. It just makes me older faster, a fruitless endever.

But I keep doing it anyway .....

"pokes eye with finger" "Says ow!"

"pokes eye with finger"...................
 

ZLoth

Gawd
Joined
Apr 13, 2010
Messages
854
I honestly hope you don't think everyone backs up their data? The people that sit at home using their laptops to play games and surf the web don't make backups. They're lucky they can turn on a PC.
It has been my experience that, unless the backups are as automated and as transparent as possible, people will not make backups. Heck, there are people who don't even change the oil in their cars at the manufacturer recommended intervals, and are surprised when, on a very important appointment day, their car breaks down. You can literally give them the license to True Image and an external hard drive, set up the program on their computer, put an icon on their desktop that says "Backup My Computer", and they still won't do it. It's "too much trouble". Yet, they panic when they get a call from "Mikrowsoft Suppport", install ransomware, and then I get a panic call to "fix their computer" because all their "important business data" is on there.

Does anyone know how much it costs to recover data from a crashed hard drive? Certainly a couple grand more than a brand new drive. If your SSD crashes, you might have a better chance of winning the lottery than to recover the data. The whole primary reason I built a bleeping FreeNAS box with a bleepful of storage in a RAID-Z2 configuration was to store my automated backups from several computers in my home network. Secondary reason was to store my data files. And, even then, every month, I backup the data from that FreeNAS box to several external hard drives.

Updates have to be handled carefully, cause they can do some serious damage. HP had an update program on my aunts laptop that updated a BIOS, and it failed. Thus killing the motherboard. It fucking auto updated a bios, which is the dumbest thing you could ever do. God knows what my aunt was doing, but she doesn't know not to do stupid things with a machine when doing a BIOS update.
I've had two personal HP laptops that have required repair which required that I send back to HP. One of those was a blown BIOS update. There won't be a third HP laptop if I have anything to say about it.

I received my "auto upgrade" notification for Windows 10 back in August, 2014. This was something I was looking forward to, but I was about to leave for a ten day trip, and did not have time to diagnose any potential until I got back. (I had to remove access my computer while traveling) During that trip, a notification appeared on my mother's computer, she clicked yes, and it installed.... and I didn't find out until I was 700 miles away. Thankfully, her upgrade went smoothly. Mine hit a speed bump.
 

lcpiper

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 16, 2008
Messages
10,611
This is the single most retarded discussion I have ever had the intense displeasure of participating in.

Microsoft were caught out deliberately being underhanded and manipulative in their approach to forcing Windows 10 on users and that's OK?

Has education in the States dropped a few points?
No actually MS was not "caught out deliberately being underhanded and manipulative....."

Instead ignorant people are very loud in making that claim.

Now I will explain what I mean.

I just followed this link that naib provided;
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36367221

And I looked really hard at that notice and that notice clearly and specifically states that the "Upgrade has been scheduled ...." and to click here to cancel. If anyone thinks that clicking the X is supposed to un-schedule the upgrade action they are mistaken. It's a lazy assumption, "the computer is supposed to know what I want".

The fact that the author of that article keeps calling that task scheduler notice an "advertisement" is further ignorance in print. If clicking the X cancelled this activity in the past then that was the bad programing not the newer behavior.

I'm an IT guy, I do IT for a living, I am certainly not alone here. You go into enough different operating systems and do enough work with them and you learn to read and not assume.

In fact, you learn not to trust them at all and take every precaution you can because if you do IT, you know Murphy is alive and well at all times.

If the battery, in the switch that is my NTP time server, hadn't died last night, Kerberos wouldn't be fucking me hard right in the time window set aside for backing up the SQL server.

Do what it says, not what you think it's supposed to do.
 

naib

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 26, 2013
Messages
1,289
Umm, the HIG is for developers to use in order to standardize functionality within the OS right?

Never heard of "Do as I say, not as I do" ?

Hitting the X does not automatically always cancel an action, sometimes it just closes a window without killing the task linked to the window. It's called poor coding and it happens, even to MS.

This also doesn't mean it was done on purpose with malign intent, not when there is a button within the window that says "Cancel" that does work as it should. Anyone who clicks the red X thinking that this always works properly is ignorant of the reality that sometimes even programmers fuck up.
EXCEPT when this was enabled the intent of [X] was to accept the install
Then when the KB was changed it was reverted ...

This wasn't an accident or a bug, this was intentional and there is more than enough evidence to show this, even in MS own domain. YET you sit saying it was "poor coding" it was poor alright, a poor managerial decision
 

lcpiper

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 16, 2008
Messages
10,611
It has been my experience that, unless the backups are as automated and as transparent as possible, people will not make backups. ................
I right scripts that run during my work day and backup my storage system configuration files because I am too lazy to back them up manually and because those config files hold my NFS Exports and CIFS share details. If I backup those files I don't have to keep an up-to-date record of these shares, they are listed in the files, along with my current network config.

So if I have to change an IP address for an interface I don't have to record it in my continuity book, it's in the backups and I reference the files and where they are stored in the continuity book.

Automated, transparent, and they get done.

So I agree completely.
 
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