Windows 10 Budges A Bit As Masses Cling To Windows 7

[Mugato]

Actually looked at the Steam survey last night and win 10 and win 7 were virtually tied. So I am not so sure this is some fluffing of numbers.

Actually I was also surprised that AMD had 23% of the CPU ownership on steam. Was expecting lower.

Also surprising? A majority of systems have; 2core procs, 8GB RAM, 1GB VRAM and 1080P /720P res. Laptops? That come pre-installed with win10? Wait, that makes sense. 1440P and 2160P are like 2 and .07% of the user base. Even at that, .5% have 980Ti's.

 

[heatlesssun]

I know, but many in these threads say it's getting marketshare by forced updates/automatic updates. Then again, maybe you don't get to upgrade from 8 to 10 directly. I went directly to 8.1 earlier this year.

The large majority of the time this is probably how it's playing out. A user sees the upgrade nag screen, decides to do the upgrade, comes back a later and that's that. That's so far all I can attest to personally. Just no issues.

And that's not saying the process is perfect because clearly it's not. But no matter how well any of use is informed we're never going to see the true story from the infinitesimal piece that we see personally and online haters are going to be the most vocal and the average person that never had an issue will be as quiet as a church mouse.

 

[tetris42]

It's not an upgrade, it's a house of horrors for the power user, whose concern is productivity, ease of use, and customization.

Ha ha, I haven't tried Win10 yet, but that sentence is so damning, especially since you're right, that's EXACTLY what I want from an OS.

 

[ccmfreak2]

It works with 7/8.x: http://www.technobuffalo.com/2015/12/11/xbox-one-pc-wireless-adapter-gets-support-for-windows-7-8-1/

Well crap. I had no idea the specs changed! Oh well, either way, my free upgrade is out of the way. The clean install was needed anyways. It'll last me till my next gaming laptop purchase.

 

[heatlesssun]

Well crap. I had no idea the specs changed! Oh well, either way, my free upgrade is out of the way. The clean install was needed anyways. It'll last me till my next gaming laptop purchase.

I thought that it was crazy that initially it did only support 10 as obviously supporting a controller can't be a big deal. I got one for Christmas and it's pretty cool. Even routes sound output through the jack.

 

[mdburkey]

I do IT support for a living, and I can tell you flat out that part of the reason for the lack of movement is people going back to Windows 7 after (usually accidentally or unknowingly) upgrading to Windows 10. So far I can personally attest to having at least 30+ people PAY me to roll them back to Window 7 or 8.1. Add to this the numerous company/work related systems from Dell that have come with OEM Windows 10 Pro over the last month or so that we have exercised downgrade rights on to install W7 or W8.1 (which I personally did on two Dell Inspiron 7568's today alone). I've got an appointment tomorrow afternoon to roll back a system for someone else who accidentally upgraded and has decided they can't stand it (and it's been too long to do the automatic 30 day roll back).

So, yeah, the numbers look about right to me -- especially when I consider that, so far, I have dealt with maybe two to three people who have actually LIKED it since they upgraded.

Most people find the new start menu better than Windows 8.1 but worse than Windows 7.

I know several gamers who have been VERY unhappy to find that quite a few add-ons for WoW totally bork on W10 (they run, but FPS drops into the single digits -- on an i7-4790 w/GF 660Ti). They also had to jump through hoops to get GTA:SA to run properly (but still has to be run in W7 compatibility mode).

The lack of WMC in W10 is a total show-stopper for many people (myself for one). Until some other platform becomes available that supports CableCard w/full DRM support, there will be no movement to W10 for much of the HTPC crowd.

For Windows tablets, such as the Dell Venue 8 Pro (which I use daily), Windows 10's tablet mode is totally fubar. Edge in tablet mode works nowhere near as well as the old IE for W8.1 did -- and it has much more wasted screen real estate with the stupid tabs at the top and the taskbar still showing at the bottom. Additionally, while the pop-up keyboard ONLY works automatically in tablet mode, many apps only seem to work properly on W10 when you are NOT in tablet mode, and others (Kindle) work strangely (at best) with the new pulldown at the top to get to a hamburger menu. The loss of the Charms bar and the top/bottom swipe menus is a MAJOR setback for tablet mode.

And I'm not even really going to touch on the privacy issues with W10 -- but considering that the Chinese government seems to think the feedback they are going to receive from the custom version they are having Microsoft do for their computers, this probably should tell us all something about what W10 can monitor, if they decide to turn it on.

 

[heatlesssun]

A little perspective might be in order: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2010/04/windows-7-surpasses-10-market-share/. So at 5 months in Windows 7 according to Net Applications in April 2010 had 10.23% market share. So that's .27% ahead of Windows 10. However the testing methodology is different today and according to Net Applications comparing numbers from the old and new methodologies shouldn't be done. However just at nominal value the numbers are within 2.7%. So by this standard it's impossible to say anything conclusive other than it looks like Windows 7 and 10 adoption are pretty similar.

Of course some would say that the free upgrade should have Windows 10 way ahead of Windows 7 but Windows 7 probably came with a lot more new hardware back in 2009-2010 when the new PC market was somewhat bigger than today.

 

[nutzo]

The lack of WMC in W10 is a total show-stopper for many people (myself for one). Until some other platform becomes available that supports CableCard w/full DRM support, there will be no movement to W10 for much of the HTPC crowd.

This is probably my biggest gripe.
There's really nothing that can replace WMC when it comes to CableCard and DRM usage.

My main concern is that Microsoft will stop providing the guide updates for Windows 7, and I'll have to find another DVR.

 

[nilepez]

This is probably my biggest gripe.
There's really nothing that can replace WMC when it comes to CableCard and DRM usage.

My main concern is that Microsoft will stop providing the guide updates for Windows 7, and I'll have to find another DVR.

I don't think you have to worry, so long as 7 is supported. After that, I suspect the service will die.

 

[svet-am]

This is probably my biggest gripe.
There's really nothing that can replace WMC when it comes to CableCard and DRM usage.

My main concern is that Microsoft will stop providing the guide updates for Windows 7, and I'll have to find another DVR.

If you follow Microsoft news then it's pretty obvious that XBOX ONE is the heir apparent to replace WMC. From what I've read they even see SmartGlass as the replacement for WMC extenders.

BUT, *right now* we have nothing but "plans" for this rather than an actual solution. They could go a long way toward convincing WMC advocates to migrate if they got this done *soon*.

 

[heatlesssun]

If you follow Microsoft news then it's pretty obvious that XBOX ONE is the heir apparent to replace WMC. From what I've read they even see SmartGlass as the replacement for WMC extenders.

BUT, *right now* we have nothing but "plans" for this rather than an actual solution. They could go a long way toward convincing WMC advocates to migrate if they got this done *soon*.

I've been using WMC since the beginning but it's obvious that the way we consume TV and video is undergoing dramatic changes. Conventional cable TV is clearly in a state of decline and that's accelerating. While I do wish that Microsoft had supported WMC a bit longer, much of what I use it for has been replaced by cloud services.

TV is eventually all going cloud, it's just a matter of when.

 

[svet-am]

TV is eventually all going cloud, it's just a matter of when.

Not true by a long shot! I'm actually seeing more and more go OTA. In the past year, my OTA scans in Denver metro have *added* 15 new stations. I think the broadcasters see what is going on and are switching to OTA because it's a cheaper/easier way to get their programming (and hence their ads) out their to the public rather than relying on the streaming services.

 

[heatlesssun]

Not true by a long shot! I'm actually seeing more and more go OTA. In the past year, my OTA scans in Denver metro have *added* 15 new stations. I think the broadcasters see what is going on and are switching to OTA because it's a cheaper/easier way to get their programming (and hence their ads) out their to the public rather than relying on the streaming services.

OTA is not a problem though even without WMC, there are other solution for that.

 

[HvyMtl]

IMHO Microsoft is missing one simple thing about the majority of computer users.

They do not like change.

They get their PC set up, get used to using it that way, and do not like it when they have to adjust, adopt, or learn a new way of doing things.

They do not see the update to 10 as beneficial. They see it as something they do not want, forced on them, not for their betterment, but for the benefit of Microsoft.

Until Microsoft fixes this perception, they will have people hate them.

I have made a good deal of $ from people (average users, who have no real skill set, nor the want, of knowing how the computer works, but just want their pc to work, like it USED TO) going back to 7, or 8, or 8.1 from 10.

I do wonder if those "Oops, I clicked on something, and now I have 10, can you put it back to what it was before?" are counted by Microsoft as a 10 user. I believe so.

Further, Microsoft is shooting itself in the foot on several "privacy rights" issues. IF I cannot fix the OS to be HIPAA compliant (which Microsoft has not advised you how to, just stated the onus is on the user, and will not give any further details, showing 10, due to how it collects data, cannot be compliant) I cannot upgrade. This issue exposes many professional fields, and corporations, to high expenses, lawsuits, and damages. Until this issue is resolved, I cannot recommend Lawyers, Insurance Agents, Medical (from Doctors, to Claims Adjusters who work from home) and any others who have to deal with sensitive information (Social Security Numbers, Names, Ages, ID Numbers, Addresses, Incomes, Health Issues, Health Diagnosis, Telephone Numbers, etc.) of Clients use Windows 10.

And that is a sticking point. Microsoft wants to Monetize the OS. Fine, but the way they are collecting the data, and not advising what they do with the data, how it is preserved, what they actually look at, and give to 3rd Party Advertisers, how they secure it, how long it is preserved, who has access to it, and what they will automatically give to Law Enforcement without a subpoena, well that is disturbing to me, and should be to all, including the fan bois of Microsoft.

So, until Microsoft comes out with an Enterprise Edition, where the data collection is removed, and not just "turned off," do not expect Corporations to gladly swap to it.

And until they come out with a Professional Edition, where the data collection is removed, or, at least automatically turned off, I would not advise Professionals to upgrade.

 

[heatlesssun]

They get their PC set up, get used to using it that way, and do not like it when they have to adjust, adopt, or learn a new way of doing things.

They do not see the update to 10 as beneficial. They see it as something they do not want, forced on them, not for their betterment, but for the benefit of Microsoft.

Most people I doubt give an upgrade this level of thought. Everyone I've spoken to about upgrading did it and had no problems. These people are the ones happiest and quietist with 10 and I'm thinking they are the large bulk of the upgraders thus far. If the large bulk were having problems I don't think Microsoft would be pushing the upgrade as hard. I doubt Microsoft would push an upgrade that it knows has a high percentage chance of disabling large numbers Windows PCs. That's not to Microsoft's benefit in any way.

Until Microsoft fixes this perception, they will have people hate them.

Some will always hate large and rich corporations. That's just kind of a thing.

 

[HvyMtl]

Most people I doubt give an upgrade this level of thought. Everyone I've spoken to about upgrading did it and had no problems. These people are the ones happiest and quietist with 10 and I'm thinking they are the large bulk of the upgraders thus far. If the large bulk were having problems I don't think Microsoft would be pushing the upgrade as hard. I doubt Microsoft would push an upgrade that it knows has a high percentage chance of disabling large numbers Windows PCs. That's not to Microsoft's benefit in any way.

You missed the point. The majority of people I deal with - the average Joes- who pay no attention to gaming machines, do facebook, word, email, work, and search the web on their PCs - are the kind not interested in upgrades. They fear them. Why? Learning curve. They do not want one (real or perceived.) The "moral majority" of the computer user buy it because of a need (real or perceived) want to learn (ONCE) how to use it (in as little of time possible) and do not want it to be a challenge for them...

These are the ones who are typical users. They are not seeking change to their PC, ever. They are the ones who dread buying a new PC, because it won't work like their old PC. And I guarantee they are in the majority in the consumer market.

The older version of these Average Joes are the ones who lament XP ERA going away. Because they learned how to use it, and the new pc they bought HAD XP on it because XP was around for so long, and they did not have to, in their minds, "start over learning how to computer..."

Their first question is,"Why would I want to upgrade? My PC is running fine, and I know how to use it. Why do they want me to upgrade? Why would I want to have to learn new things?"

Tough sell to say, well, they want you to upgrade because they want to make more money off of the OS. (Brutal honesty of this fact does not make a computer sale....) You can argue of new features, but really, there are not too many new ones.

Some will always hate large and rich corporations. That's just kind of a thing.

Yes, there are haters of Corporations. But, these people are not Communists. These people look at a computer like an appliance. They did not have to upgrade the OS of the Toaster to make toast, why do They have to upgrade their PC OS for it to continue to PC?

Truth of the matter is: They do not have to update the OS for their PC to continue to PC. And badgering them to do so annoys them, and plays to their fears...

 

[nilepez]

Most people I doubt give an upgrade this level of thought. Everyone I've spoken to about upgrading did it and had no problems. These people are the ones happiest and quietist with 10 and I'm thinking they are the large bulk of the upgraders thus far. If the large bulk were having problems I don't think Microsoft would be pushing the upgrade as hard. I doubt Microsoft would push an upgrade that it knows has a high percentage chance of disabling large numbers Windows PCs. That's not to Microsoft's benefit in any way.

Some will always hate large and rich corporations. That's just kind of a thing.

This is true for all products. Most happy customers post very little. Honestly, what do you say about Windows # if it works as expected? The only time I'd post something positive about windows is if someone posts something negative that I disagree with (e.g. it's too big a change from 7).

That said, my dad upgraded a month ago and the upgrade was not stable. I looked at the error logs and decided to go back to 7. That was even less stable (though he doesn't recall it being a problem before the upgrade...but who knows).

Turned out that was caused by NIS, so I uninstalled it and reinstalled it. Problem in 7 was solved. After a 24 hour soak, I did the 10 upgrade and there were no stability problems. We'll see how it's gone when I visit them next time.

One thing I didn't get was why his install had an online account, but when I upgraded, I don't recall being asked for an online account.

 

[heatlesssun]

You missed the point. The majority of people I deal with - the average Joes- who pay no attention to gaming machines, do facebook, word, email, work, and search the web on their PCs - are the kind not interested in upgrades. They fear them. Why? Learning curve. They do not want one (real or perceived.) The "moral majority" of the computer user buy it because of a need (real or perceived) want to learn (ONCE) how to use it (in as little of time possible) and do not want it to be a challenge for them...

They're disinterested initially. But if they press a button and the upgrade works and there are no big issues, as it probably would for most people, then from their perspective cool, new stuff and everything I'm used to is still there and oh look, Candy Crush!

So it goes both ways. The trick is to make sure most people are ok and happy. If they are then as a software developer you've doing your job for most people.

But there's always going to problems and unhappy customers. Dealing with them is never easy. Bat unless there's a lot of them they shouldn't drive the whole show. If right now those that bemoan the UI and the tablet features and integration had had their way what would be the state of the 2 in 1 market which is the fastest growing part of the new Windows hardware mark it right now?

matter is: They do not have to update the OS for their PC to continue to PC. And badgering them to do so annoys them, and plays to their fears...

If your business plan is to never change it's not much of a plan.

 

[DPI]

Some will always hate large and rich corporations. That's just kind of a thing.

Only the large and rich corporations that hate their customers, and go to great lengths to alienate them.