WinDAS White Point Balance guide for Sony Trinitron CRTs

Okay I got it :p I just searched for restart in Settings. And in the first result "Change advanced startup option" you can click on "Restart now" where it says Advanced startup!

After that point, I could follow Argyll's own guide without any differences :)
The readings though... are the same :/ very strange!
 
Make sure that when you're doing your grayscale testing in HCFR after argyll step that you are asking HCFR to use video lut (might be termed gamma ramp or something) when doing it. Else it won't test the monitor with the argyll lut that you just created.
 
Make sure that when you're doing your grayscale testing in HCFR after argyll step that you are asking HCFR to use video lut (might be termed gamma ramp or something) when doing it. Else it won't test the monitor with the argyll lut that you just created.
Ofc :)
I'm not there yet!
I'm at the step right after finished WPB. At the first gray scale measure without any Argyll LUT settings
 
Hmm I noticed now that you say in the guide that: "You can even re-measure your grayscale in HCFR to see how the gamma changed as a result."
And I get the exact same readings even though I have the Nvidia gamma slider way up, so I think there's definitively something weird about the Argyll driver :/ It should be correctly installed now though, so it is very strange
 
I set the Nvidia gamma slider back to 0, and redid the gray scale, just to see if something interesting happened. And it did :p
For some reason, I got different readings now. The first one. The numbers are still a bit spread out (two red numbers, highest of them 5.2, and one yellow), but generally more green numbers.
Very very very strange
 
I set the Nvidia gamma slider back to 0, and redid the gray scale, just to see if something interesting happened. And it did :p
For some reason, I got different readings now. The first one. The numbers are still a bit spread out (two red numbers, highest of them 5.2, and one yellow), but generally more green numbers.
Very very very strange
Okay so I did again and now it seems I get different numbers everytime
 
if you get the i1d3, this issue should sort itself out, but glad you got the monitor to a good place.
I bought the Colorchecker to see what it does to the Gray Scale reading (and of course to do the WPB with it). Is there a particular way you position this (i1d3) on the screen? :) I reckon you would try to get the sensor on top of the black square on the DTP-94_center image. But is there anything in particular you do otherwise? :)
I just did som fast Gray Scale measures and my numbers is still different each time 😅
 
Just go for consistency in placement, and ensure monitor has had an hour or so to warm up.
About that.. is the "best way" to warm up the monitor by having the white image on fullscreen? I used to have a video rolling on fullscreen until I read this guide. Now it seems it obvious that a white image on fullscreen is the proper way to warm it up. But this is not risking the "burn in" thing with CRTs?:)
 
Unrelated to WPB, but related to winDAS with GDM-FW:
Geometry:
A couple of times now I have let it warm up with white image couple hours, then saved data, then loaded. And repeat.

I want to try to get a decent geometry and want to iron out the possibilities of display not being warmed up before adjusting.

I noticed that when I either 1. Boot my winDAS laptop while winDAS cable comnected, or 2. Connect winDAS cable to laptop when turned on, the whole geometry of the image is stretched a little bit to the right. Now... it's only to the right. And it's not "shifting", because the left side stays constant. It's just stretching a tony bit to the right.
When I then either 1. Disconnect the winDAS, or 2. Turn off the winDAS laptop, the whole images shrinks the right side back in.

I just thought I'd report this cause I found it interesting.

Question: is it bad for the image/monitor to have like half a cm with black "non-image" around the picture? I like it that way so I can clearly see how the geometry is on all the sides. Opposed to getting the image out to the absolute edge and have no black "non-image".

Edit: image stretches to right, not left.
 
I still get different numbers everytime I do the Gray Scale Measurement in HCFR, even with the Calibrate Colorchecker (i1d3) (n)
There has to be something I have overlooked

The display has warmed up - check.

The meter is a consistent placement - check (I haven't touched it since I did the WPB with it).

I unzipped the Argyll folder to "C:\Argyll\Argyll_V2.3.1" - check.

I added "C:\Argyll\Argyll_V2.3.1\bin" to System Variables Path - check.

When I do "PATH" in Command prompt, "C:\Argyll\Argyll_V2.3.1\bin;" is indeed in there.


It seems like the Gray Scale measurements is identical "session-wise". Like everytime I launch HCFR anew and do a Gray Scale measurement, the numbers are identical to the first Gray Scale Measurement in other HCFR session. And the Second Gray Scale Measurement is identical to the second Gray Scale Measurement of other sessions and so on.
So in essence... the numbers doesn't seem to be random, more like some kind of "preview" to how it could look if HCFR was communicating with my meter. Or something like that.
 
I still get different numbers everytime I do the Gray Scale Measurement in HCFR, even with the Calibrate Colorchecker (i1d3) (n)
There has to be something I have overlooked

The display has warmed up - check.

The meter is a consistent placement - check (I haven't touched it since I did the WPB with it).

I unzipped the Argyll folder to "C:\Argyll\Argyll_V2.3.1" - check.

I added "C:\Argyll\Argyll_V2.3.1\bin" to System Variables Path - check.

When I do "PATH" in Command prompt, "C:\Argyll\Argyll_V2.3.1\bin;" is indeed in there.


It seems like the Gray Scale measurements is identical "session-wise". Like everytime I launch HCFR anew and do a Gray Scale measurement, the numbers are identical to the first Gray Scale Measurement in other HCFR session. And the Second Gray Scale Measurement is identical to the second Gray Scale Measurement of other sessions and so on.
So in essence... the numbers doesn't seem to be random, more like some kind of "preview" to how it could look if HCFR was communicating with my meter. Or something like that.
I just launched a HCFR session like in the WPB guide, but with my windows 10 computer (which is the GDM-FW900 computer). Just to see if it *seems* like HCFR communicating with meter. And it does! It seems like it does! So there has to something I have overlooked otherwise!
 
When creating a new HCFR session, I didn't select my meter in the drop down menu. I selected simulated sensor... That was my problem all along...
 
I did the
dispcal -m -qm -J -F -v3 -g2.4 -f1 -k0 -A16 mylutname
command, but the process only took a couple of seconds, which leads me to think that I have done something wrong. Since you say that it should take some time, maybe an hour or two.
When I then did dispwin mylutname.cal I get the error: "Dispwin: Error - Can't open file"
 
Yea dispcal has evolved since the guide was created, and I'm unable to edit the original post:

Try this:

dispcal -m -qm -F -G2.4 -f0

(not sure if this is ideal, but I'm basing it on this post: https://hardforum.com/threads/winda...rinitron-crts.1830788/page-15#post-1044583371) - I've removed the -J since i think that won't work with the dtp-4 (see https://hardforum.com/threads/winda...rinitron-crts.1830788/page-16#post-1044583559 )
Ohhh! Thank you! :)
And pardon me for asking questions left and right without reading through the thread myself first. Bad old habit of mine.
I noticed your comment to one of the other people here about black levels being 0.1, and could be lower. I see now that my black levels are actually 0.000 (i1d3 btw). So I have probably set my G2 way too low? If I combine that with other commenters (at least jbl) then mentions about doing the first two steps (G2 and G1) in normal ambient lightning with the Gray Scale 2 bar (or 16 bars), and err on the light side as opposed to the dark side, I would suppose that would give me readable black levels. And probably also lower gamma without the use of LUT as someone points out.
Interestingly though. I just now quickly tried to load up the Gray Scale 2 bar image in normal ambient lightning, and I can clearly see a difference between the two sides. That's pretty weird. I would assume then (when clearly see a difference on the Gray Scale 2 pattern) that my G2 and G1 settings are kinda "perfect", or at least that my meter should have no problem reading the black levels. What do you think? I am totally at a loss here between thinking my G2 is way too low, or actually kinda too high 😅
 
Yea dispcal has evolved since the guide was created, and I'm unable to edit the original post:

Try this:

dispcal -m -qm -F -G2.4 -f0

(not sure if this is ideal, but I'm basing it on this post: https://hardforum.com/threads/winda...rinitron-crts.1830788/page-15#post-1044583371) - I've removed the -J since i think that won't work with the dtp-4 (see https://hardforum.com/threads/winda...rinitron-crts.1830788/page-16#post-1044583559 )
So it's:
dispcal -m -qm -J -F -G2.4 -f0 mylutname

and then:
dispwin mylutname.cal

I still get the "Dispwin Error: Can't open file 'mylutname.cal"
And the first process still completes in a matter of seconds.
 
Just for reference:
Upper row: three HCFR Gray Scale Measures with raw gamma.
Lower row: three HCFR Gray Scale Measures with nvidia slider to my preference.

grayscalerawgamma1.PNGgrayscalerawgamma2.PNGgrayscalerawgamma3.PNG


grayscalewithnvidiagamma1.PNGgrayscalewithnvidiagamma2.PNGgrayscalewithnvidiagamma3.PNG
 
So it's:
dispcal -m -qm -J -F -G2.4 -f0 mylutname

and then:
dispwin mylutname.cal

I still get the "Dispwin Error: Can't open file 'mylutname.cal"
And the first process still completes in a matter of seconds.
what message do you get when you do the dispcal command? The process should take quite a while to complete, and will render several color patches.
 
what message do you get when you do the dispcal command? The process should take quite a while to complete, and will render several color patches.
The process completes in about 5 seconds (more or less). There are a couple of white LED flashes from the i1d3, but that's it. And there is no message at all :/
 
I'd try a clean driver installation, and make sure you're using the argyll drivers when you install the drivers.
These are windows 7 instructions, and the procedure may well work for windows 10:

https://www.argyllcms.com/doc/Installing_MSWindows.html#WINV7
Yeah I think I have definitively messed something up when installing the drivers. Following the guide in your link, I can't seem to find the i1d3 in Device Manager, which is sort of strange, because I think I remember seeing it there before. Anyway, the only thing in the list that change when I connect or remove the i1d3 is that a "HID-compliant vendor-defined device" and "USB Input Device" appears and disappears in the "Human Interface Devices". But I have 8 more of those which all have the exact same properties.
 
Yeah I think I have definitively messed something up when installing the drivers. Following the guide in your link, I can't seem to find the i1d3 in Device Manager, which is sort of strange, because I think I remember seeing it there before. Anyway, the only thing in the list that change when I connect or remove the i1d3 is that a "HID-compliant vendor-defined device" and "USB Input Device" appears and disappears in the "Human Interface Devices". But I have 8 more of those which all have the exact same properties.
Ok so I spoke too early as always. I was able to distinguish the i1d3 from the other HID elements by looking under the "Events" tab and see which matched the timestamp of when I connected it. I am still, however, at a total loss of what I'm doing wrong.
The guide says that the id31 don't need argyll drivers precisely because of this. And when I do "echo %PATH%" in command line I can see that the path to Argyll_V2.3.1\bin is correctly echoed (I have checked this multiple times. I am not using Program Files folder as recommended. I simply created a folder named "Argyll" directly in C: so my echoed path contains "(...);C:\Argyll\Argyll_V2.3.1\bin;(...)".
 
Ok so I spoke too early as always. I was able to distinguish the i1d3 from the other HID elements by looking under the "Events" tab and see which matched the timestamp of when I connected it. I am still, however, at a total loss of what I'm doing wrong.
The guide says that the id31 don't need argyll drivers precisely because of this. And when I do "echo %PATH%" in command line I can see that the path to Argyll_V2.3.1\bin is correctly echoed (I have checked this multiple times. I am not using Program Files folder as recommended. I simply created a folder named "Argyll" directly in C: so my echoed path contains "(...);C:\Argyll\Argyll_V2.3.1\bin;(...)".
If I uninstall the drivers of this HID (which I think is the i1d3), the same drivers automatically gets installed next time I plug it in. And if I try to update the driver manually Windows says that Windows has determined that the best driver sfor this device is already installed.
 
If I uninstall the drivers of this HID (which I think is the i1d3), the same drivers automatically gets installed next time I plug it in. And if I try to update the driver manually Windows says that Windows has determined that the best driver sfor this device is already installed.
After following the "disable secure boot" guide to see if that helps, I get "The folder you specified doesn't contain a compatible software driver for your device. If the folder contains a driver, make sure it is designed to work with Windows for x64-based systems." Which is weird, because I downloaded the ...... 64 bit version of the Main Microsoft Windows Executables... which is x86?
 
TLDR: Is it possible that some custom Lut is loaded on startup even though I have not set it to do so?

Decided to try it again after just using the gamma slider for a year 😅
And for some magical reason, I got it working!
No idea what I did different this time though, unfortunately.

But now I have a new and "even worse" problem 😅
I've tried to search around quite a lot to not be "that guy" on the forum that just asks and asks about problems, but I'm starting to feel desparate, so here it goes:

I ran the dispcal command with G2.4, and loaded the file with dispwin.
It worked pretty well, but it was still quite dark, so I slided the GPU gamma slider a bit up.
Some days later I figured I could do as you suggested in the guide to run a dispcal with G2.2 for "brighter environments", and maybe that would produce a better fitting result for me.
This time the result seemed much better initially, but now the colors (surprisingly) seemed pretty off. The colors looked very very "brown".
Then I realized it was probably because I forgot to slide the gamma slider back down before doing the second dispcal.
But now when I then ran the dispwin command with the first G2.4 .cal file, the colors were all green suddenly. So it seemed to be a complete mess.
So i deleted all the .cal files to "start fresh" with the whole argyll thing.
And reboot the computer.
Upon rebooting, the colors were back to those perfect White Balance colors at the login screen. But then after some 5 or so seconds, it's almost as if some messed up .cal file is loaded and the colors turn all green again 😅

I tried rebooting several times, changed the name of the Argyll folder, looked at windows logs (doesn't look like there is something, but I'm very new to this, so I could be overlooking something), deleted the .cal files. Still the same thing happens everytime I reboot: perfect colors for 5 seconds, then green colors 😅

You don't happen to somehow know what could be the cause of this?
Maybe I should post this to the Argyll mailing list?

Anyway thank you very much for all the help you gave me patiently back over a year ago, and thanks again for the guide while I'm at it 🙏
Hope you are doing well!
 
Sounds like some other process is loading a gamma ramp. After the colors go green, try resetting the LUT and see if the green colors disappear:

Make sure there are no LUTs being loaded into your system. Things like monitor calibration wizard, adobe gamma loader, etc. should all be disabled. To really ensure things are normalized and linear, open up a command window (start, cmd), and type "dispwin -c" (without quotations). This will reset the video LUT, and if it wasn't reset to begin with, you'll see the colors/brightness of your display change as soon as you hit enter. If the colors do change, make sure you figure out what was changing the LUT.
 
Sounds like some other process is loading a gamma ramp. After the colors go green, try resetting the LUT and see if the green colors disappear:
Hey thanks for the answer, it's highly appreciated!
I tried "dispwin -c", and absolutely nothing happened :/
It's very very strange, because I have not done any tinkering with any program other than argyllcms, dispwin, dispcal.
Anyway thanks for the suggestion :)
 
Oh god I think the problem is fixed!
I overlooked something in the Nvidia slider settings. For some reason I had selected "Blue" in the Color Channel drop down menu, and when I clicked through the different options (blue, red, green, all channels) some (or one) of them has the gamma turned up. 😅

Sweet relief! 😅
 

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The link you posted for the images, and the pdf instructions is not working for me. Could anyone help me get ahold of the images I'll need to do this calibration?
 
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