Win 8 on a touch device - in some ways its even worse

[MrCrispy]

I'm using my new Surface RT, and Windows is not really that much better with touch.

- side swipe to switch apps. This is an extremely confusing gesture. When you swipe it switches to the last app, but if you go a little bit and then go back to the left, you see the list of apps. There is no way one could discover this, esp after the useless 'tutorial'. There is a setting to not switch but just show the task list, but no one is going to find this setting, esp since most people use defaults

- closing a WinRT app. On my pc, I'm used to middle clicking in the task list. On the Surface, you have to drag it out of the task list, then move your finger down. But when you do that, the app thumbnail doesn't follow you, and you have to trust that letting it go at the bottom closes the app. Once again, hard to use. You can argue that users should never close apps, but I've had cases where an app would simply not respond till I restarted it.

- sea of white, esp in the Store, Settings etc.

- things take too long to open. There's no lag in scrolling or smoothness, but there should be no delay e.g. if I hit back in the Store

- Desktop sucks. There should be no reason why I should ever see the desktop on my RT tablet. In IE, a user could do 'show on desktop' and it opens desktop IE, with its confusing mess of dialogs, 'choose to disable addons' and all that nonsense. Select 'choose updates' in the PC update section in settings and you're back in the desktop.

- 'Your PC will restart'. PC?! Really, it was that hard to detect I'm on a Surface and change it to 'device'?

- Uninstalling an app. On my pc, I'd right click, hit uninstall on the start screen. On the Surface, no such thing. I tried to hold down the icon, swipe up, etc and still haven't figured out how to do it.

My point is this stuff isn't very obvious or easy to use. Compare with an iPad or even Android tablet and they are much easier to use for new users.

 

[chinesepiratefood]

I'm using my new Surface RT, and Windows is not really that much better with touch.

- side swipe to switch apps. This is an extremely confusing gesture. When you swipe it switches to the last app, but if you go a little bit and then go back to the left, you see the list of apps. There is no way one could discover this, esp after the useless 'tutorial'. There is a setting to not switch but just show the task list, but no one is going to find this setting, esp since most people use defaults

I don't find this confusing at all. Very simple.

- closing a WinRT app. On my pc, I'm used to middle clicking in the task list. On the Surface, you have to drag it out of the task list, then move your finger down. But when you do that, the app thumbnail doesn't follow you, and you have to trust that letting it go at the bottom closes the app. Once again, hard to use. You can argue that users should never close apps, but I've had cases where an app would simply not respond till I restarted it.

Not sure how to respond to this one to be honest, it really isn't' that complicated

- sea of white, esp in the Store, Settings etc.

You opinion. (which I think is wrong, because Settings looks great (Store looks meh, but wtf does this have to do with touch))

- things take too long to open. There's no lag in scrolling or smoothness, but there should be no delay e.g. if I hit back in the Store

Ok...agreed performance on arm devices could be better. Not touch related though

- Desktop sucks. There should be no reason why I should ever see the desktop on my RT tablet. In IE, a user could do 'show on desktop' and it opens desktop IE, with its confusing mess of dialogs, 'choose to disable addons' and all that nonsense. Select 'choose updates' in the PC update section in settings and you're back in the desktop.

Outside of Office I haven't entered the desktop

- 'Your PC will restart'. PC?! Really, it was that hard to detect I'm on a Surface and change it to 'device'?

Who cares? In Microsoft's eyes all types are first class and there need not be a differentiation.

- Uninstalling an app. On my pc, I'd right click, hit uninstall on the start screen. On the Surface, no such thing. I tried to hold down the icon, swipe up, etc and still haven't figured out how to do it.

swipe down on the tile, it brings up the context menu on the bottom

My point is this stuff isn't very obvious or easy to use. Compare with an iPad or even Android tablet and they are much easier to use for new users.

iPad has many completely nonsensical gestures as well.

It has room for improvement but there wasn't much touch related in this post.

 

[Wrench00]

It has room for improvement but there wasn't much touch related in this post.

Seriously?

Its all about touch what the fuck do you think a gestures is?

 

[blinx]

You'll get used to it bub. Otherwise, you are screwed.

 

[wonderfield]

Its all about touch what the fuck do you think a gestures is?

I suspect he thinks it has something to do with a middle finger.

 

[Chrisroman]

Seriously?

Its all about touch what the fuck do you think a gestures is?

Op only mentioned two points that had anything to do with gestures/touch nav. Regardless, I get the gist of what Op is trying to communicate and, for what it's worth, I agree. Touch devices, while neat and interesting, are still lacking compared to traditional keyboard/mouse input that's been around for the last 30+ years.

 

[heatlesssun]

- side swipe to switch apps. This is an extremely confusing gesture. When you swipe it switches to the last app, but if you go a little bit and then go back to the left, you see the list of apps. There is no way one could discover this, esp after the useless 'tutorial'. There is a setting to not switch but just show the task list, but no one is going to find this setting, esp since most people use defaults

I'm really not sure when any computer OS ever totally exposed it's UI such that everything was inherently easy to find, like the four finger slide for changing apps on the iPad. I'm more convinced than ever that it's really just a matter of what one is used to and how willing one is to pick up stuff. I was over at my brother-in-laws yesterday and there a number of kids over there and to pass the time I pulled out my 500T and with very little guidance from me they were playing all kinds of games and had a blast with the thing, nothing was confusing or difficult for them. I go agree that Microsoft could do better on exposing a tutorial of some sort, but picking up the basics of the UI are Child's play literally. But it is different from prior versions of Windows and after 20 years of the same basic UI, yeah it can trip people up.

- closing a WinRT app. On my pc, I'm used to middle clicking in the task list. On the Surface, you have to drag it out of the task list, then move your finger down. But when you do that, the app thumbnail doesn't follow you, and you have to trust that letting it go at the bottom closes the app. Once again, hard to use. You can argue that users should never close apps, but I've had cases where an app would simply not respond till I restarted it.

The thumbnail should follow down once you get to the bottom but it doesn't follow all the way along, but you get a definite visual response of the app disappearing on the bottom, at least that's the way it behaves on all of my devices, touch or mouse.

- things take too long to open. There's no lag in scrolling or smoothness, but there should be no delay e.g. if I hit back in the Store

This is something that a number of people have reported, loading seems to be much faster overall even on Atom devices for some reason.

- Desktop sucks. There should be no reason why I should ever see the desktop on my RT tablet. In IE, a user could do 'show on desktop' and it opens desktop IE, with its confusing mess of dialogs, 'choose to disable addons' and all that nonsense. Select 'choose updates' in the PC update section in settings and you're back in the desktop.

It will be interesting what happens to the desktop in the future. If you know how to use it and tweak settings like font sizes a lot of things are not difficult with touch. File Explorer is very useful and with the larger views is pretty touch friendly, I manage files across all of my machines with touch everyday, very handy. But yes, the desktop isn't touch friendly and it does take some experience to become comfortable with it. I would like to see more enhancements to touch on the desktop rather than it's total removal.

- 'Your PC will restart'. PC?! Really, it was that hard to detect I'm on a Surface and change it to 'device'?

The Surface RT is still a personal computer. It does many of the same things that traditional PCs do, not sure that there's a problem here other than getting use new PC form factors and that some PCs are now ARM powered.

- Uninstalling an app. On my pc, I'd right click, hit uninstall on the start screen. On the Surface, no such thing. I tried to hold down the icon, swipe up, etc and still haven't figured out how to do it.

If you swipe up or down on a tile on the Start Screen the App Bar should appear at the bottom. If the title is a Metro app there will be an "Uninstall" option at the bottom.

My point is this stuff isn't very obvious or easy to use. Compare with an iPad or even Android tablet and they are much easier to use for new users.

For some people it's not, for others it's a breeze. I think the more that one is tied to the old UI and doesn't like the convergence the more difficult it is. I've been doing this stuff so long and know this UI so well now I really can't even remember how I picked this stuff up. It's just natural now and that's pretty much how it will work, the more people use it, the more they figure things out, and then it's no longer a big deal for most I would think.

 

[MrCrispy]

update - things are getting better as I get used to the gestured more. I still maintain its not very obvious. I don't know how obvious an iPad is for new users but from all accounts its quite easy to figure out.

Does IE10 on Surface have a way to reflow when zoomed in? e.g. [H] forum doesn't reflow.

 

[Ur_Mom]

I don't know how obvious an iPad is for new users but from all accounts its quite easy to figure out.

It's easy. But, there are a lot of things that you have to know how to do that aren't instinctive. There is no instruction manual. Some people have just figured out after owning iDevices for years how to take a screenshot. Double tap home, hold home icons, etc.., there is a learning curve for those new to iDevices. Easy to use for things, but there are a few features that you don't think of or use often that aren't easy to figure out unless you read about them or are told...

Win8 has some features that are necessary to the usage that aren't as easy, though. So, there is a difference there. iPad is easy to use and the more difficult gestures aren't necessary to use the thing. Win8 is easy to use but the hidden and more difficult gestures are a bit more necessary to use it.

 

[Wrench00]

It's easy. But, there are a lot of things that you have to know how to do that aren't instinctive. There is no instruction manual. Some people have just figured out after owning iDevices for years how to take a screenshot. Double tap home, hold home icons, etc.., there is a learning curve for those new to iDevices. Easy to use for things, but there are a few features that you don't think of or use often that aren't easy to figure out unless you read about them or are told...

Win8 has some features that are necessary to the usage that aren't as easy, though. So, there is a difference there. iPad is easy to use and the more difficult gestures aren't necessary to use the thing. Win8 is easy to use but the hidden and more difficult gestures are a bit more necessary to use it.

The gestures are stupid, hard to figure out and are the opposite of what a touch device is supposed to be. ATM don't have sill ass gestures for withdrawing money from your checking account.

Its worse on the desktop. Gestures with a mouse are just fucking plain retarted. . I spent 4 hours with a windiws 8 workstation because shit didn't work right with sbs 2008 user also couldn't figure it out. The fucking abomination of tutorial is a joke as well. I told him to return it but the client is strapped for cash and didn't want to do it. I set the machine up and wished him the best of luck.
So far 100% of my customers hated windows 8.
Its fine with me because as company I am moving towards user centric computing where the desktop is becoming obsolete.