Win 11 pro's? con's? opinions?

ManofGod

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
12,489
I see the BS driver download and install from Windows updates is back. I installed Windows 11 dev and then installed the 21.6.2 drivers for my Vega 64. Reboot and Windows then downloads the AMD Device driver and overwrites the driver I just installed. It does not occur on the other two machines but, I think this is crap.
 

pendragon1

Extremely [H]
Joined
Oct 7, 2000
Messages
34,211
I see the BS driver download and install from Windows updates is back. I installed Windows 11 dev and then installed the 21.6.2 drivers for my Vega 64. Reboot and Windows then downloads the AMD Device driver and overwrites the driver I just installed. It does not occur on the other two machines but, I think this is crap.
rollback via device manager and tell it the old performed better. mine downloaded it but is sitting on it as optional. also, ddu can turn auto updates off.
 

ManofGod

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
12,489
rollback via device manager and tell it the old performed better. mine downloaded it but is sitting on it as optional. also, ddu can turn auto updates off.

Thanks for the advice but, in this case, DDU did not help so I just gave up. I do not need Windows 11 installed on this one machine anyways, since I have a solid working Ubuntu 20.04.2 install working anyways. I also have Win11 install on another machine and it is fine there.
 

primetime

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
7,129
yea the amd win update driver has a bugged out radeon software.....fist time i ever seen that happen either...no biggie....uninstalled and reinstalled correct latest version and just paused updates till the next win 11 build comes out lol
 

ManofGod

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
12,489
yea the amd win update driver has a bugged out radeon software.....fist time i ever seen that happen either...no biggie....uninstalled and reinstalled correct latest version and just paused updates till the next win 11 build comes out lol

Yeah well, I did not really want to deal with that, since I did not need too. It is most definitely a con but, it is also a dev version so.......
 

ThreeDee

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Messages
11,286
Yeah well, I did not really want to deal with that, since I did not need too. It is most definitely a con but, it is also a dev version so.......
Just do a John Lennon with any listed drivers ...
 

Domingo

Fully [H]
Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Messages
20,112
This didn't really change anything for me, although I guess having a search bar on the start menu eliminates the need for a separate taskbar icon.
That giant "recommended" section on the Start Menu is still the the only big bugaboo for me. That's just plain obnoxious. The other stuff is all minor.
 

pendragon1

Extremely [H]
Joined
Oct 7, 2000
Messages
34,211
This didn't really change anything for me, although I guess having a search bar on the start menu eliminates the need for a separate taskbar icon.
That giant "recommended" section on the Start Menu is still the the only big bugaboo for me. That's just plain obnoxious. The other stuff is all minor.
you could always search in w10 start menu and you could turn the icon off. this doesnt seem to change much....
theyll probably add customizability to it, eventually, with enough prodding....
 

Domingo

Fully [H]
Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Messages
20,112
you could always search in w10 start menu and you could turn the icon off. this doesnt seem to change much....
theyll probably add customizability to it, eventually, with enough prodding....

It's actually a giant chunk of the new start menu. Roughly half of it.

windows-11-start-screenshot[1].jpg


That entire "Recommended" section is there no matter what you do. You can clear it out and tell the system that you don't want recommendations, but that section is still there. Instead that section is populated with a message that tells you that you can turn them on via the Start Menu options section. It takes up a lot of real estate and forces your pinned shortcuts into a weird hidden second row. In this shot, you can see this person has a second row based on the dots to the right.

I kinda like the new start menu assuming they let you purge that section and (hopefully) re-size it. If they don't, I think I'd rather have Win 10's.
 

ManofGod

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
12,489
It's actually a giant chunk of the new start menu. Roughly half of it.

View attachment 373231

That entire "Recommended" section is there no matter what you do. You can clear it out and tell the system that you don't want recommendations, but that section is still there. Instead that section is populated with a message that tells you that you can turn them on via the Start Menu options section. It takes up a lot of real estate and forces your pinned shortcuts into a weird hidden second row. In this shot, you can see this person has a second row based on the dots to the right.

I kinda like the new start menu assuming they let you purge that section and (hopefully) re-size it. If they don't, I think I'd rather have Win 10's.

Honestly, I do not care, this is a basic and straight forward menu, which I rarely use, anyways. In fact, the tiles and metro stuff disappearing makes this so much better.
 

pendragon1

Extremely [H]
Joined
Oct 7, 2000
Messages
34,211
It's actually a giant chunk of the new start menu. Roughly half of it.

View attachment 373231

That entire "Recommended" section is there no matter what you do. You can clear it out and tell the system that you don't want recommendations, but that section is still there. Instead that section is populated with a message that tells you that you can turn them on via the Start Menu options section. It takes up a lot of real estate and forces your pinned shortcuts into a weird hidden second row. In this shot, you can see this person has a second row based on the dots to the right.

I kinda like the new start menu assuming they let you purge that section and (hopefully) re-size it. If they don't, I think I'd rather have Win 10's.
ok, and? i am well aware of the new start menu...
 

primetime

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
7,129
Capture.JPG

How do the screw up a basic driver install? How? FFS.....Now i get to uninstall the shit driver and reinstall a working one then pause updates AGAIN
 

primetime

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
7,129
just roll it back via device manager. when windows update installs its version, it doesnt come with new software, so theres a mismatch.
did just that....simple enough fix i guess...weird they include a driver like that cause most the time their not half bad. if i un pause updates will it try to install the same driver again lol?
 

pendragon1

Extremely [H]
Joined
Oct 7, 2000
Messages
34,211
did just that....simple enough fix i guess...weird they include a driver like that cause most the time their not half bad. if i un pause updates will it try to install the same driver again lol?
my system hasnt tried to reinstall it.
 

ThreeDee

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Messages
11,286
did just that....simple enough fix i guess...weird they include a driver like that cause most the time their not half bad. if i un pause updates will it try to install the same driver again lol?
I'll get optional driver updates pop up , but they don't auto install .. I think it's in the update settings
 

Domingo

Fully [H]
Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Messages
20,112
ok, and? i am well aware of the new start menu...
NM. Misread.
Honestly, I do not care, this is a basic and straight forward menu, which I rarely use, anyways. In fact, the tiles and metro stuff disappearing makes this so much better.
Do you mainly use desktop shortcuts or the taskbar? I have about 20 programs that I use all the time, so the Start Menu makes the most sense to me. Having 1/2 of it basically just taking up space with no functionality is frustrating.
 

ManofGod

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
12,489
NM. Misread.

Do you mainly use desktop shortcuts or the taskbar? I have about 20 programs that I use all the time, so the Start Menu makes the most sense to me. Having 1/2 of it basically just taking up space with no functionality is frustrating.

I have used the taskbar buttons since forever and have always used button bars, even back in my Amiga days. I even remember downloaded some sort of button bar program that worked great in Windows 95.
 

GotNoRice

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 11, 2001
Messages
10,538
View attachment 373261
How do the screw up a basic driver install? How? FFS.....Now i get to uninstall the shit driver and reinstall a working one then pause updates AGAIN

They didn't "screw up" a basic driver install. You are trying to install Windows 10 drivers on Windows 11. For most hardware this is a non-issue. Even in the case of video drivers, using Windows 10 drivers won't cause you to miss out on too much...

However, one of the key components of Windows 11 will be it's support for Linux-based apps (Android apps, etc). The WDDM (Windows Display Driver Model) was updated to Version 3.0 for Windows 11. The current version of Windows 10 uses WDDM 2.7 I believe. WDDM 3.0 enables features that really come into play when running linux-based apps (supposedly, it will give the Linux subsystem the ability to manage VRam directly, for better performance).

So it seems entirely plausible that if Windows 11 detects WDDM <3.0 drivers (aka Windows 10 drivers), it would automatically update it to a compatible WDDM 3.0 driver instead. After all, the entire purpose of running Windows 11 right now is for testing, and I'm sure MS wants people running the correct driver so one of the key new features actually works correctly. Otherwise you will have people claiming "Linux/Android apps in Windows 11 run like crap!!!" not realizing that they broke it by force installing a Windows 10 driver.

If you still have this issue once actual Windows 11 drivers are released from AMD/Nvidia, then get out the pitchforks.
 

primetime

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
7,129
i think theres a slight misunderstanding ...the win 10 driver is flawless but the win 11 driver has a version mismatch which is ok but it means no radeon settings is all....beyond that it was fine in every way afaik...that was all it was.....i just had never seen an update driver auto install with a slight glitch like that well for me anyway
 

Mr. Bluntman

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
6,626
Well I'm pretty fucking pissed. I just upgraded my X99 system earlier in the year to get ready for an OS update only to find out it's not compatible with Windows 11, and I HATE Windows 10. TPM2.0 needs to go and that 8th gen Intel requirement has to go.
 

GotNoRice

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 11, 2001
Messages
10,538
i think theres a slight misunderstanding ...the win 10 driver is flawless but the win 11 driver has a version mismatch which is ok but it means no radeon settings is all....beyond that it was fine in every way afaik...that was all it was.....i just had never seen an update driver auto install with a slight glitch like that well for me anyway

Do you understand what I was talking about regarding WDDM 2.7 vs WDDM 3.0?

Windows 10 Drivers = WDDM 2.7.
Windows 11 Drivers = WDDM 3.0.

You installed a WDDM 2.7 Driver, and Windows 11 fixed it by installing a WDDM 3.0 driver from Windows Update. It doesn't matter that the Windows 10 driver is "flawless" (whatever that means), what matters is that Windows 11 uses WDDM 3.0 drivers for full functionality and you tried to install a WDDM 2.7 driver instead. The MS driver is likely a barebones driver that does not include an updated driver control panel - hence the "mismatch" when you tried to launch the old driver control panel. If you don't care about any of the Windows 11 features that use WDDM 3.0, then go ahead and use the WDDM 2.7 drivers, just don't be confused about why Windows 11 is trying to fix the problem. It's not a bug or flaw.
 

Deadjasper

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 28, 2001
Messages
2,119
good for you...but its really not to bad to play around with for some of us

I suppose it's OK if you don't take it too seriously and have an expendable box or 2 to play around with. As for me, I just got a BNIB Moderro IEC-4660 off eBay and I'm turning it into an HTPC. I've got an NVMe drive and 16GB of ram ordered for it. It even came with a VESA mount and screws so I can mount it on the back of the TV. Gonna load Linux and KODI on it. :)
 

ManofGod

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
12,489
Glad I'm not a part of this shitshow. :p


I suppose it's OK if you don't take it too seriously and have an expendable box or 2 to play around with. As for me, I just got a BNIB Moderro IEC-4660 off eBay and I'm turning it into an HTPC. I've got an NVMe drive and 16GB of ram ordered for it. It even came with a VESA mount and screws so I can mount it on the back of the TV. Gonna load Linux and KODI on it. :)

I have it installed on my fastest machine for gaming, exclusively, since I already have Ubuntu on my other two desktop computers. On my RX 5700, it does not push out a driver for that card from Windows updates because, if it did, I would wipe the machine, put Windows 10 back on the 500GB SSD and Ubuntu on the primary NVMe SSD and other drives. However, so far, so good.
 

ManofGod

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
12,489
View attachment 373261
How do the screw up a basic driver install? How? FFS.....Now i get to uninstall the shit driver and reinstall a working one then pause updates AGAIN
Thanks for the advice but, in this case, DDU did not help so I just gave up. I do not need Windows 11 installed on this one machine anyways, since I have a solid working Ubuntu 20.04.2 install working anyways. I also have Win11 install on another machine and it is fine there.

Welp, I guess it was just wishful thinking, it did download the driver and automatically install it. Yes, it is a dev version and yes, that is going to introduce issues but, this is one issue I refuse to deal with and therefore, I just wiped that system and am installing Ubuntu 20.04 and Windows 10 again. Considering what has happened in the past, I will need to see evidence that this does not happen in the release version or, at least wait until a real driver is released and the auto driver install is stopped. (I mean, it was not even given as an optional update.)
 

GotNoRice

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 11, 2001
Messages
10,538
hmm .. I wonder why drivers auto install for some and not others

The issue is the need for a WDDM 3.0 driver. It's only updating GPU drivers if you don't have a WDDM 3.0 driver already. Windows 10 drivers are WDDM 2.7 or below.

The newest Nvidia drivers, (471.11) already include WDDM 3.0 support, so if you are running an Nvidia card and using the latest driver, you're already good to go. AMD on the other hand has not yet released a WDDM 3.0 driver yet - which is why it's being replaced by a Windows Update driver. If you're running an older card, it probably doesn't have a WDDM 3.0 driver at all (either from AMD/Nvidia or Microsoft).

I get that it kind of sucks to have drivers updated automatically, but you can't simply expect to be able to use a driver meant for an older OS version. This like a 15-year flashback to when people kept trying to install XP GPU drivers on Vista during the beta and then blamed Microsoft when things didn't work right.
 

pendragon1

Extremely [H]
Joined
Oct 7, 2000
Messages
34,211
wddm 3 is supported, not required. it requires 2.0*. my drivers were changed during the "setting up devices" stage. i just rolled back and it been fine. it have not tried to reinstall and the optional update has not force installed, its just sitting there.

*edit: which is 10s requirement.
 

ThreeDee

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Messages
11,286
The issue is the need for a WDDM 3.0 driver. It's only updating GPU drivers if you don't have a WDDM 3.0 driver already. Windows 10 drivers are WDDM 2.7 or below.

The newest Nvidia drivers, (471.11) already include WDDM 3.0 support, so if you are running an Nvidia card and using the latest driver, you're already good to go. AMD on the other hand has not yet released a WDDM 3.0 driver yet - which is why it's being replaced by a Windows Update driver. If you're running an older card, it probably doesn't have a WDDM 3.0 driver at all (either from AMD/Nvidia or Microsoft).

I get that it kind of sucks to have drivers updated automatically, but you can't simply expect to be able to use a driver meant for an older OS version. This like a 15-year flashback to when people kept trying to install XP GPU drivers on Vista during the beta and then blamed Microsoft when things didn't work right.
I run a 6700xt and I don't run what Win11 has .. nor have I been forced (auto installed) drivers from Win11
 

ManofGod

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
12,489
I run a 6700xt and I don't run what Win11 has .. nor have I been forced (auto installed) drivers from Win11

I have a RX5700 and until today, it did not do so. Therefore, do not be surprised when it happens, not if.
 

primetime

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
7,129
wddm 3 is supported, not required. it requires 2.0*. my drivers were changed during the "setting up devices" stage. i just rolled back and it been fine. it have not tried to reinstall and the optional update has not force installed, its just sitting there.

*edit: which is 10s requirement.
ok i got to thinking maybe its best to run the newer win 11 driver after all, even if it didn't include Radeon settings........but...i did typical uninstall and then actually used latest ddu and let win update do its thing again...this time it works great with no version errors.
Capture.JPG


Capture2.JPG

I guess their not ready to test WDDM 3.0 or what ever its called yet, but at least its working fine now :) I guess it just needed a proper driver cleaning first? who knows it works now
 

zandor

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 14, 2002
Messages
3,726
I suppose it's OK if you don't take it too seriously and have an expendable box or 2 to play around with. As for me, I just got a BNIB Moderro IEC-4660 off eBay and I'm turning it into an HTPC. I've got an NVMe drive and 16GB of ram ordered for it. It even came with a VESA mount and screws so I can mount it on the back of the TV. Gonna load Linux and KODI on it. :)
Yeah, that's pretty much it. People running Win11 are playing with a pre-release. It's not a shitshow until a release version comes out. I'd play with it if I had a spare box that could run it, but only my main rig, laptop and the little i3 file server in my basement can support it and I want all of those stable. If the vid card shortage were over things might be different. I like having a couple of spare boxes around just to mess around with and I'd be tempted to build something like a 5600X/5800X/i7-11700k + 6700XT/3070/3060Ti rig if vid card prices were sane, but I'm not doing the vid card hunt thing or paying through the nose just for a spare box. If I did I'd probably put Win11 on it just to check it out.

Anyone else have a feeling Win11 is going to go over kind of like Vista? Vista was pretty good if you had enough machine to keep it happy, but it ran like shit on a lot of new machines at the time. The only machine I ran it on was a dual Opteron 285 machine with 4GB ram, NV GTX 260, an SSD boot drive and a handful of 15k SCSI HDDs. I didn't have any complaints. Then you go out and buy a 1GB ram laptop with a hard drive running Vista and... barf. So far it doesn't sound like Win11 is crazy resource intensive compared to Win10 like Vista was compared to XP, but it sounds like it's going to be similar in that it will not work on a lot of machines that are running very well with Win10. There are a lot of higher end older machines out there that still compare very well to modestly priced new machines performance wise and even more that are easily getting whatever their job is done, so I'm expecting some rage.
 

Deadjasper

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 28, 2001
Messages
2,119
I still have a 990Fx MB with a 6 core 4GHz cpu running. Haven't opened it up in years so I'm not sure what all it has in it. It's running Win 7 Ultimate and will be till the day it dies. Performance wise it's still comparable to a modern business computer. The only gaming I would do on it would be Doom and Doom2. It serves it's purpose and will for the foreseeable future.
 
Top