Will Windows 7 Be The New XP?

SkribbelKat

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I don't tell my customers anything. They buy what ever and then I just charge them my fee per hour. I just hate dealing with untrained users. More and more I am moving to nothing but server managment. You can hire a monkey for a level 1 support tech but a level 3 is hard to find.

Yup, working in some capacity with backend systems is nice to get away from end user interaction. The problem is that IT people often forget that the end user and their task is the reason why the whole thing exists. We work for them because without them and their chores, there would be no system for us to maintain.
 

heatlesssun

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A lot of mistakes have been made in many fields after doing things which were based on research and studies.

True, but then I don't see where doing what a lot of anonymous people on the Internet who've never designed anything 100th as complex as Windows would be a better choice.

I'm pretty sure the main study they did was "holy fuck iOS and Android have a huge market, lets try and get some of that". :p

Well duh, everyone's talking about the iPad and really couldn't give a rat's ass about Windows 7 which has outsold the iPad like 6 to 1. But let's not forget as well that Microsoft has been down this road long before the iPad as well with Tablet PCs. Microsoft is all about one size fits all solutions. The Tablet PCs up to this point were about putting a desktop OS on tablets and Windows 8 is almost like the opposite, butting a tablet OS on desktops (as well as decent tablet hardware). I think this will be a much more successful strategy at least in terms of sales.

Bottom line, if one can get used to Windows 8 it does virtually everything important that Windows 7 does and the same desktop applications will work as they always have. But this time Windows 8 actually does indeed also work well with tablets. If one can get past Metro in terms of inherent capabilities an Windows 8 tablet can do everything a mobile OS tablet does and virtually everything that Windows 7 device does today. Hate Metro to the end of the age, there's no other OS that can do what Windows 8 does.

That's just intriguing to me and something that Microsoft HAD to do. Maybe it will fail but Windows 8's capabilities have no equal. If an OS that has no functional equivalent is going to fail in the market, it will be sad in a way because all we'll see things that are fare less capable than Windows 8.
 

nutzo

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I won't agree with the statement that Windows 7 is the new XP until I actually see a business PC running Windows 7. I have worked in many government offices at different levels and it is always XP, every time.

I only have one department left running XP, then my entire office will be on Windows 7.
Due to some older apps, I did have to load Windows 7 32 bit on some systems, but it's still better tham XP.
 

Hornet

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For most users and businesses as well, there's no need to upgrade the OS as frequent as Microsoft would like.
 

IRSmurf

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Windows 8 will be my laptop OS. Windows 7 will be my desktop OS. I don't think Microsoft could have bungled the desktop interface more if they tried. It seems like they're intentionally alienating us.
 

Kor

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I'm not bothered by the changes in 8, the desktop is still there and perfectly functional so I really don't get all the bleating. Are you REALLY going to miss the start button that much? Seriously, how often do you actually scroll through the start menu to find what you want? Most people just belt out the name of the program they want in the programs and files search and hit enter (that or they just pin their most commonly use applications to the start bar), and that functionality is barely changing at all.

Yes, the start screen is meant to be tablet friendly. But considering where the market is heading MS need to make the change to stay afloat. Unlike Apple, they're a software only company (with the exception of Xbox).
 

heatlesssun

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Windows 8 will be my laptop OS. Windows 7 will be my desktop OS. I don't think Microsoft could have bungled the desktop interface more if they tried. It seems like they're intentionally alienating us.

I know that I'm a Microsoft shill and all but this is the kind of stuff that just has me scratching my head. I do ALL the same stuff on my Windows 8 dual screen desktop as I do my Windows 7 desktop. Visual Studio, Office, games, web surfing, document reading. For something that so clustered why in the hell is it SO SIMILAR to what I've always done?

Nothing should work, everything should be different, my mouse should be spinning like it was being exorcised but none of that is the case. Point the mouse in the corners, left click, right click, full screen Start Screen, that's seriously about the WHOLE difference on a desktop if you're not using Metro apps, and with Metro apps there's right click for the app bar and click and drag from the top to close an app.

It's getting harder and harder to mesh the reality of my Windows 8 experience with what's being said about it. And the last time I felt this confused about a product that I thought was ok and the general Internet buzz what Office 2007. And that product failed so hard that it and its successor only became the best selling Office releases ever.

I think it's just getting popular to rag on Windows 8. It may fail but a lot of the comments just don't add up.
 
D

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And what does any of this actually do with how the OS actually functions and what it can do?

That is not what is driving the market anymore. That is what matters to you and me. Not the average consumer who has put Apple up to 600 bucks a share. You're still thinking along the lines of white collar, white box PC, running spreadsheets and pie charts or as an techie/enthusiast.

Consumers are no longer fawning over PCs like the did in the nineties. Laptops, tablets and phone are what is growing and core functionality are no longer a big part of the buying equation. In the corporate world this is happening as well, just much slower.

People shop for new technology like they shop for cars. (Believe me I know. I have sold thousands of computers, hundreds of phones and over a hundred cars) Subjectivity is no longer taking a back seat to hard numbers. For example, I've sold countless ASUS laptops just because they are available in lime green. They didn't give a damn what specs the machine had at all.

How something looks and feels is now vastly important, and in millions of cases more so, compared to just how something actually functions. Apple, ASUS, and Samsung have figured this out while RIM and HP are scrambling to try and get a handle on this reality.

Call me out if you want, but if MS fails to attract today's buyers, we could end up bailing them out like GM and Chrysler.
 

heatlesssun

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Consumers are no longer fawning over PCs like the did in the nineties. Laptops, tablets and phone are what is growing and core functionality are no longer a big part of the buying equation. In the corporate world this is happening as well, just much slower.

But this why I think Windows 8 has a chance in that it introduces and enhances functionally on PCs that consumers can relate to because it's like phones and does even more than those devices while retaining the power of a full function PC.

It's all going to boil down to how good the hardware is. Windows 8 is incredibly powerful. It can do anything any non-phone device and often better.
 

omegadot

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I seem to remember WinXP not being well universally initially. In fact a lot of gamers and this sort of crowd stuck with 98 SE for a very, very long time. Around SP1-2 it really came into it's own.
 

Tudz

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That is not what is driving the market anymore. That is what matters to you and me. Not the average consumer who has put Apple up to 600 bucks a share. You're still thinking along the lines of white collar, white box PC, running spreadsheets and pie charts or as an techie/enthusiast.

Consumers are no longer fawning over PCs like the did in the nineties. Laptops, tablets and phone are what is growing and core functionality are no longer a big part of the buying equation. In the corporate world this is happening as well, just much slower.

People shop for new technology like they shop for cars. (Believe me I know. I have sold thousands of computers, hundreds of phones and over a hundred cars) Subjectivity is no longer taking a back seat to hard numbers. For example, I've sold countless ASUS laptops just because they are available in lime green. They didn't give a damn what specs the machine had at all.

How something looks and feels is now vastly important, and in millions of cases more so, compared to just how something actually functions. Apple, ASUS, and Samsung have figured this out while RIM and HP are scrambling to try and get a handle on this reality.

Call me out if you want, but if MS fails to attract today's buyers, we could end up bailing them out like GM and Chrysler.

I agree with your general sentiment.

Though, unlike heatlesssun I'm not as convinced in the perceived future dominance of touch devices. I think the current sales explosion and popularity are more driven by hype and marketing than function and once that dies down I think it could go either way... people either keep buying big on touch devices or they realise the function of touch devices is beyond the actual hype would suggest and they'll slow down and maybe even go backwards.
 

heatlesssun

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I agree with your general sentiment.

Though, unlike heatlesssun I'm not as convinced in the perceived future dominance of touch devices. I think the current sales explosion and popularity are more driven by hype and marketing than function and once that dies down I think it could go either way... people either keep buying big on touch devices or they realise the function of touch devices is beyond the actual hype would suggest and they'll slow down and maybe even go backwards.

I don't necessarily see touch so much as dominant as just another input method that will coexist with keyboards and mice for years and years to come. Keyboards, mice and touch aren't mutually exclusive and can work together.
 

polive

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I am still amazed by the stability of W7 x64. I never have crashes unless I try to OC too much (obviously not an OS problem). I'll wait until there is a real reason, like DX13 or something (don't see that happening anytime in the next couple of years) to upgrade.

Or unless companies start switching over massively.
 
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METRO = Win 8 DEATH!!!!! In corporate keyboard+mouse environment anyways....

Corporations are just now upgrading to Windows 7. They were never going to upgrade to Windows 8.

7 has been the new XP, this article falls under the No Sh*& category.

Its great on a tablet, but on the desktop do not want .

Plus..pay extra for a more buggy media center. Fuck that noise.

I have absolutely no intention whatsoever of using Windows 8, fuck Metro. I feel bad for all those people who are going to get shafted when they buy a new PC after Win8 rolls out.
QFT!!

Does Microsoft not listen? WTF??
 

Tudz

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I don't necessarily see touch so much as dominant as just another input method that will coexist with keyboards and mice for years and years to come. Keyboards, mice and touch aren't mutually exclusive and can work together.
You say things like this...
Not exactly as tablet sales in retail will exceed that of desktops. The pooch is kind of dying anyway.
...all the time.

To have the opinion that W8 being touch friendly is a good idea you must think touch will be dominant (alongside or above keyboard and mouse) where as I think it is an over hyped fad and time will tell whether people actually see the usefulness or lack of usefulness of touch in the coming years.

You also have the fact that MS is largely a monopoly on desktop, it is big and remains big, things like Vista and Office sell like a house on fire despite many people hating them largely because that's what you get when you buy a computer, it comes with Windows, and when you get sent a spreadsheet, they almost always come in .doc or .docx format.

Getting into phones and tablets on the other hand MS is going to be chasing an already established market for the first time in about 20 years. Though maybe they'll be able to muscle their way in their if they can convince OEMs to make W8 tablets and phones which aren't at a premium to the competition or simply eliminate the competition at the OEM level so consumers don't have much of a choice.
 

TechLarry

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I agree.

Windows 7 has support until 2020 at least. Now, MS could change that to try and force people's hands, but I don't think that would work at all now that they have set an initial support benchmark.

I honestly don't know what the hell Microsoft is thinking with Windows 8. It truly baffles me. They are showing true arrogance that supersedes anything that Apple has ever done, and have pretty much laid down the gauntlet as "you are gonna take it and like it and that's that" when it comes to the Windows 8 Interface.

The ONLY thing that will save Windows 8 and Microsoft's ability to sell it will be a third party. A Third party developer that is willing to give people what they actually want.

I thought MS was hard-headed when it came to the atrocious Menu Ribbon bullshit. Windows 8 Metro takes the crown by a large margin.

When I first saw Metro on the Windows 7 phone, I said to myself "Wow, what a frickin loser this is gonna be". Now the same thing has been foisted upon Windows.

Ballmer needs to be fired, and quick, before he destroys everything Microsoft has built.

Within 2 years Shareholders are gonna demand it and skin him alive.
 

TechLarry

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every good version of windows always has to have a shitty one follow , but at least the next one aren't as bad as the first rotten egg windows me . . . but yep windows 7 is the new xp :D

windows98 good - windows me garbage
windows xp great - windows vista so so
windows 7 greatest - windows 8 Blahhhhhh

It's kinda like Star Trek Movies :)
 

pcjunkie

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Windows 7 here at work for several more years because luckily the boss and I make the IT decisions for several hundred employees. Windows 8 tested and discarded as an upgrade. MS fanbois can stomp and scream all they want but we gave Win 8 a fair assessment and its a cluster-fudge as far as business is concerned.
 

Condition

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Corporations are just now upgrading to Windows 7. They were never going to upgrade to Windows 8.

I can speak to this. We are right now upgrading system from Vista to 7 64-bit. Windows 8 will never be used on a corporate level. The amount of training required for users to even function would not benefit anyone.
 

SkribbelKat

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I seem to remember WinXP not being well universally initially. In fact a lot of gamers and this sort of crowd stuck with 98 SE for a very, very long time. Around SP1-2 it really came into it's own.

I'm not going to go citing articles because I'm lazy, but I remember Tom's Hardware (back when Tom and Kyle didn't really like one another much and before Tom's Hardware turned really stupid) refused to benchmark hardware with XP because they couldn't get consistent benchmark results from it. They kind of tossed fuel onto the, "omg! like 98 4 evar girlfriend!" argument.
 

dandirk

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In the last 2 years I have worked for 2 IT shops, one government and one medical (2k and 10k nodes). BOTH running XP and planning to upgrade to Win7 before the XP support deadline.

I generally agree that Win7 will be the new XP, though primarily in the enterprise. Upgrades cost too much, not in hardware, but in software support. In both places I evaluated Win7 software compatibility which results were about as good as you can get 90-95%. The non-compatible apps killed any preemptive upgrade projects.

Apps and support will need time to catch up to Win8 (less then xp->vista, but still)... At which point companies will upgrade to Win7. They MIGHT use Win8 for tablets.
 

SkribbelKat

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QFT!!

Does Microsoft not listen? WTF??

Because you're part of the vocal, but very small minority. In the real world people are pretty much "meh" about operating systems (if they even know what an operating system is) and will use whatever is installed on their computers when they get a new one.
 

womble

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Metro on a large non touch screen with lots of programs is as comfortable as being forced to use a mouse to use my Android phone:)

Meh! still using XP anyway as some of my stuff doesn't work well with later versions and pretty user interfaces aside, if it the OS doesn't support software/hardware then it'll have to wait till I can afford to replace stuff (and not just for the sake of it).

Kind of wish Microsoft would have put a bit more effort into backward compatibility, amuses me that I can plug my old scanner into my intel MacBook and it'll load the drivers and software under PowerPC emulation and work (no upgrade to Lion on this one, besides it is a 32bit Duo).
 

bcrisp82

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I could easily see Windows 7 becoming another Windows XP. While we use a variety of operating systems around here, I use Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit every day and have no plans of changing in the foreseeable future.

not a chance. not even a remote chance. any technoweenie predicting this doesn't understand the consumer market. windows 8 will gobble up market share like pac man.
 

heatlesssun

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You say things like this...

...all the time.

To have the opinion that W8 being touch friendly is a good idea you must think touch will be dominant (alongside or above keyboard and mouse) ...

I think this is what I said. If you mean dominant in the sense that touch will be along side keyboards and mice then I agree. Understand that I've formed this opinion having used Windows on tablet devices long before the iPad and the current hype over touch. I just makes a lot sense that I can used a Windows machine in a dock like a laptop or even desktop when connected to an external monitor, pull that machine out of a dock and then take it on the bus or couch or bed and start using just like a tablet.

Metro opponents like to talk a lot about usage patterns and this is one usage pattern that Windows 8 does support very well and it's one that just makes sense to me because I do it and I like it. Maybe this won't be popular but it does look like PC OEMs are putting a lot of effort into Windows 8 devices that work in this scenario.
 

heatlesssun

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not a chance. not even a remote chance. any technoweenie predicting this doesn't understand the consumer market. windows 8 will gobble up market share like pac man.

If Windows 8 devices are of good quality and the price is right then I think when people go into a Best Buy this fall looking to get a new laptop or even some of those considering a mobile OS tablet will see a Windows 8 device, see how it can work with touch, even split in half to work just like a tablet and a laptop, find out that it's 100% Windows compatible (not talking Windows RT, a bit different subject since there's no desktop app compatibility there) and IF the price is right, a lot of folks when get one of them. It's something new, kind of cool and even a practical.

At this point the issue that I see being the big one is price. There's been a lot of rumors that Windows 8 license aren't cheap, and the pricing is so, so critical here. I think that Microsoft does get it, though their pricing schemes can be very elaborate and overly complicated they usually do get the idea.
 

ebduncan

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I'm another one of those windows 7 forever guys.

no plans on going to windows 8. In fact i will not even consider it. I will wait for their next os. and if it is more of same garbage, i may be a windows 7 user for a VERY long time.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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My 2 cents.

Corporate users are just getting around to rolling out Win 7, replacing their XP installs. Many still haven't even started this. These users are likely not going to upgrade to Win 8 any time soon.

Enthusiasts will likely stick with their purchased Win7 licenses, at least on their desktops and laptops. Those interested in the new Win8 tablets, will more than likely use Win 8.

Average consumers will at first have a choice of which OS to get preinstalled with their computer, but 1 - 2 years after the Win8 launch this option will likely be gone, and they won't have a choice.

Based on this, I wouldn't be surprised if Win8 has a slightly faster adoption rate than Vista first did, but WAY slower than Win7. The numbers will increase once consumer buyers no longer have the option to get Win7 preinstalled, but corporate users (and enthusiasts) will likely hold out for Windows9, which will likely come out at about the same time Windows7 ends mainstream support, so timing will be good there.

Hopefully Windows 9 will be somewhat like Office 2010. Office 2007 came out with a radical new user interface, and many balked. Ms. Realized their mistakes, scaled back, and fixed up the ribbon interface a bit with their Office 2010 launch.

Hopefully This will be the case with Windows 9. It will have all the benefits of Windows 7, but the user interface scaled back a bit to where people happy with the Windows 7 styled interface won't mind upgrading as much.
 

McFry

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I dont think microsoft is necessarily concerned with this, nor are they planning to make Win7 obsolete via lack of support (DX12+ or whatever). MS understands that unlike their competitors, most PC users dont consider their computer a toy, and cannot afford to repeatedly update their systems.
 

heatlesssun

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Zarathustra[H];1038837890 said:
Hopefully Windows 9 will be somewhat like Office 2010. Office 2007 came out with a radical new user interface, and many balked. Ms. Realized their mistakes, scaled back, and fixed up the ribbon interface a bit with their Office 2010 launch.

How exactly did MS scale back on the ribbon going from Office 2007 to 2010? To me they amped it up as the Ribbon wasn't even in all of the 2007 products.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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I dont think microsoft is necessarily concerned with this, nor are they planning to make Win7 obsolete via lack of support (DX12+ or whatever). MS understands that unlike their competitors, most PC users dont consider their computer a toy, and cannot afford to repeatedly update their systems.

Well,

Windows seems to be on a 3 year release schedule now. An un-upgraded computer typically can last a consumer 6 years.

Based on this, its not unreasonable that most users of windows based systems will skip every other release.
 

SkribbelKat

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Zarathustra[H];1038837922 said:
Well,

Windows seems to be on a 3 year release schedule now. An un-upgraded computer typically can last a consumer 6 years.

Based on this, its not unreasonable that most users of windows based systems will skip every other release.

Six years? Your lifespan estimates make my computers feel sad on the inside. :(
 

Koolthulu

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Designing a touch interface to be used with a keyboard/mouse. How could it possibly fail? Anyway, even without the idiotic Metro interface, there just really doesn't seem to be much reason to bother upgrading. Heck, MS has removed so many features that 8 feels more like a taking few steps back than moving forward. So yeah, I'll stick with 7 for as long as I can.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Six years? Your lifespan estimates make my computers feel sad on the inside. :(

Keep in mind I said "un-upgraded" and I was referring to standard desktops/laptops that users pick up at best buy and the like.

Enthusiast systems are an exception and can live on much longer.

Most home users buy a cheap system at best buy, never upgrade it, and then when it starts getting a little slow, instead of spending $30 on some RAM, and do a fresh install of their increasingly corrupt OS they buy a new cheap machine at best buy.

With this in mind, 6 years is pretty much as much as you'd expect to get out of a system.

I recently upgraded my sisters old laptop.

It was a Pentium Dual Core (T2080) with 1 GB of ram, a slow old 40Gb laptop HD and a crumbling Vista install on it.

I put a 64Gb SSD in it, upgraded the RAM to its 2GB max, a new battery and installed Windows 7 Home Premium on it for relatively little cost, and it's serving her great, and probably will for some time to come.

Before I did this though, she was grumbling about how she was going to have to get rid of it and spend money on a new laptop.

Personally - however - video cards typically last 6moths to a year, and CPU/Motherboards typically last 1 - 2 years.
 

Danny Dawg

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Agreed. Win 7 x64 stays-- only reason to move is if MS forces it with a DX requirement AND the game makers use it.
 

jamesrb

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I feel that each version of Windows (excluding Windows ME), has been better than the version before it, when it comes to the kernel. I feel like the UI changes have either been positive or neutral, with small learning curves with each upgrae. Windows 8 will likely be an improvement on the kernel level, but the UI is sad and I will be skipping it.

I get the point of the article that most people skipped Vista and most will skip Windows 8. Vista howeer was an improvement on XP in my opinion, while I feel that Windows 8 is a downgrade from Windows 7.
 

Outamyhead

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Who the hell is going to upgrade every couple of years, windows 8 offers nothing that Windows 7 already does. Unless the future OS drastically improves performance, and offers features that you cannot replicate in the current OS, then there is no point to throwing over $100 at it.
 
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