Will this RAM work for an i5 rig?

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stateofjermaine

[H]ard|Gawd
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I am in the midst of the i5 build in my signature, and it was pointed out to me recently that the 1156 socket is rated for DDR3 RAM with voltages up to 1.65V. Well, this was news to me. Somehow I missed this in all of my wonderful "comprehensive" research, and it turns out I'm a complete voltage moron. So, that said, I checked the RAM that I bought on Newegg, and the voltage rating is 1.7V. I don't have a video card or the CPU cooler bracket, yet, so nothing has been powered on or tested. I'm just wondering if I should send it back now, or if it may be worth a shot.

UPDATE: Thanks everyone! Crisis averted. I RMA'd the OCZ memory and ordered 4GB of Corsair Dominator.
 
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That's crazy looking RAM. Good thing the H50 is a lower profile cpu cooler ;)

I believe it will just go down to what the motherboard wants, you would have to change it manually to 1.7v. Idk 100% for sure...

gl
 
no that ram will work fine.. when you boot up just set the voltage to 1.65v.. if it fails to run with the voltage set at 1.65v then you may have to exchange them with newegg.. the 1.65v limits just something intel set.. but its been proven in overclocking that the cpu can handle up to 1.7v but if you can get them running at 1.65v then you know you are completely safe.

if you have a semi large heatsink and the ram is in the way.. then just move them to the 2 furthest right slots..
 
Mr. K6 said:
As stated, the RAM will work. Voltage, speeds, and timings are all relative. It's always possible to run lower speeds at lower voltages (and many times stock speeds will run fine at lower voltages).
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I just ordered the rest of my build last night (!), so I guess I will be able to test them out when the build is finished. I will definitely need to come back here to get more advice. I've never set foot in a proper BIOS. :eek:

That said, if you can return those sticks, I would; there are much better sticks available in that price range.
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See, I thought OCZ was a pretty reliable RAM manufacturer. Of course, I'm open to learning new things! When you say "much better sticks", what do you mean, exactly? More stable? Noticeably faster? Better for overclocking? Teach me. :D

Edit: I'm upgrading from an HP DC7100 (LOL), so the difference in performance may be lost on me after my face is blown off.
 
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I was a big OCZ fan a few years ago when they were hungry to make a name for themselves, but I just don't see the value any more. I bought some 4gb 1600 9-9-9-24 corsair kits for $80 with free shipping from Newegg due to the low profile heatsinks, but if I had the headroom I would have gone with Gskill.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145260

Also, check out some of the really low timing 1600 mushkin kits if you want to spend a bit extra.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226076
 
zukihara said:
I was a big OCZ fan a few years ago when they were hungry to make a name for themselves, but I just don't see the value any more. I bought some 4gb 1600 9-9-9-24 corsair kits for $80 with free shipping from Newegg due to the low profile heatsinks, but if I had the headroom I would have gone with Gskill.
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Thanks for the recommendations, zukihara. But I still would like to know what qualifies some RAM as "good", some as "bad", and some as "excellent". Could you explain this to me in simple terms?
 
TheQuestian said:
I just ordered the rest of my build last night(!), so I guess I will be able to test them out when the build is finished. I will definitely need to come back here to get more advice. I've never set foot in a proper BIOS. :eek:


See, I thought OCZ was a pretty reliable RAM manufacturer. Of course, I'm open to learning new things! When you say "much better sticks", what do you mean, exactly? More stable? Noticeably faster? Better for overclocking? Teach me. :D
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Glad to :)

Manufacturer name isn't everything, to use a car analogy (I unfortunately do that a lot, stop me if it doesn't help), a BMW touring car isn't faster than a Chevy Corvette. Start by comparing the specifications of the sticks themselves. Beyond making sure they're compatible (DDR3 vs. DDR2, etc.), you want to focus on three specifications when considering RAM - rated speed, rated timings at said speed, and rated voltage for said speed. The OCZ you have is rated at DDR3-1333MHz, 9-9-9-20, using 1.7V (and supposedly is guaranteed to run up to 1.8V safely, which is irrelevant, I'll explain later). The first set of G.Skill Ripjaws I linked to are rated DDR3-2000MHz, 9-9-9-27, using 1.6V.

I'm going to go back to basics here, sorry if it's redundant, but I want to make sure all of this is clear. Comparing the specs, there's a few things to note. First, the G.Skill is rated at a much higher speed, meaning it is GUARANTEED to run at effective 2000MHz (technically 1000MHz, DDR runs at twice the actual speed because data travels up and down) while the OCZ is only guaranteed to run at effective 1333MHz (666MHz actual). Now, unlike on a P45 or earlier Intel chipsets, RAM speed isn't overclock limiting in anyway - the speed is there for the sake of performance only. The next thing to consider is timings. They're pretty much the same (the last number, the Tras timing, has little effect on performance). The tighter the timings (the lower the numbers) the more performance/faster the RAM is, as it uses fewer cycles to work/access. Again though, the OCZ is using these timings at 1333MHz while the G.Skill is using these timings at 2000MHz. Finally, voltage. I'm going to postulate right now that these OCZ sticks are actually older models that first came out when DDR3 was newer (P35 series of intel chipsets) due to the comparatively mediocre specs (slower speeds at higher voltages). This was fine for the P35 and P45 series of Intel chipsets, where the memory controller was on the north bridge of the motherboard. However, the i7 and i5 series of CPUs has the the memory controller on the CPU itself (integrated memory controller, IMC). While this is a great performance boost, it also introduces some restrictions. One of those is that memory voltage (Vdimm) cannot exceed 1.65V, less you will damage your CPU. Therefore, running these OCZ sticks at their rated 1.7V is not recommended. It also shows just how much better those G.Skill sticks are, running at 2000MHz with only 1.6V. This is a brand new series of chips, and really shows how the technology has evolved over the last two years or so.

Now, these specifications are only a rough estimate of performance. The G.Skill sticks actually run much better than specified. They're perfectly stable at 2000MHz using 1.64V (note the slight increase in voltage over specs, which is still safe, and it might not be necessary, but I haven't thoroughly tested it yet) with 8-8-7-18 timings, tightened right across the board. They also run 1333MHz (OCZ's rated speed) at 6-6-6-15 timings (maybe lower, didn't test further). Here's a thread over at XtremeSystems that shows just what these sticks are capable of: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=233620

Overall RAM, speed has a much smaller effect on performance when compared to a CPU overclock, but faster RAM really helps in certain applications (data cruching especially) and will make things overall more zippy.

Hope that helped, let me know if something isn't clear or you have another question :cool:.
 
Mr. K6 said:
Lots of good info . . .
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Heh, awesome.

Alright, so let's see if I follow:
- It's all about speed, timings, and voltage.
- RAM at 2000MHz is faster than RAM at 1333MHz, given the same timings.
- RAM running 2000MHz at 1.6V is superior to RAM running 1333 at 1.7V, given the voltage limitations of the i5 IMC.

Yes?

So, if I understand all of that correctly, I will have to "undervolt" my current RAM to 1.65V so that it will run safely in my system. And by doing this, I will likely lose some performance. Well, if understand all of that correctly, I think this is where I stand.

I think I want to try to undervolt the RAM I've got. Basically, so long as it won't pose a thread to my system, I think I am dealing with way more speed than I'll ever need. I think I just want my RAM to let my system post, not cook my processor, and run stable. As I said, I'm upgrading from a laughable DC7100 that I got for free from the "donation" room at my old job.

To use a car reference (;)), I would compare it to peddling a bicycle by the side of the road, next to a BMW and a Corvette in a drag race. As they passed, I would see two blurs, and I would feel a breeze. Now, if someone asked me, "Which of those would you rather be in?" My answer would be, "Heh, what's the difference?" And they could explain the difference in engine size, gear ratios, top speed, etc. But I would just be thinking, "I dunno. They both seemed pretty friggin' fast."

So, if it's no bother to you, I will probably need your help again once my parts arrive. I have tinkered around in the BIOS of this HP, but I wouldn't have a clue how to undervolt my RAM. Thanks for your help! I think my brain grew two sizes, today. :D
 
Mr. K6 said:
Hope that helped, let me know if something isn't clear or you have another question :cool:.
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Good post :)
TheQuestian said:
- RAM at 2000MHz is faster than RAM at 1333MHz, given the same timings.
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Also, I think 2000MHz with slower (higher) timings can still be faster than 1333MHz with faster (lower) timings because in the same cycle it can still do more. Hopefully Mr. K6 or someone else can verify or deny that. I don't know how much 100MHz of RAM speed equals in timing but someone else might have an idea.
TheQuestian said:
But I would just be thinking, "I dunno. They both seemed pretty friggin' fast."
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And I would probably lean this way as well :p
 
http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=3589

That is a good article showing performance of various ram speeds and timings.

What makes good ram or better ram?

Two things really imho.

1) Reliability. Most people stick with the bigger name brands like Corsair due to reliability. Dead ram or ram that won't run at stock speed is no fun. So, when I buy ram I try to look at the reviews on Newegg and if every other review is a dead stick then I go to another option. That 1.7v ram will likely run at 1.65, but there is a chance that it won't.

2) is the long explanation about speed posted above me, but again, if you look at benchmarks, depending on what you do with the system you might not see a lot of real world difference. This is why people that aren't benchmark whores go with speeds like 1600, because it kinda splits the difference between minimal performance gain vs. price.

FWIW, the last page regarding overclocking will show you just how minimal the performance difference is in gaming. This is why I went with 8GB of 9-9-9-24 instead of opting for 4GB of expensive, superspeed ram. This link from Corsair, along with that article is what convinced me to go the route that I did. The gains reported going this route were much higher.

http://www.corsair.com/_appnotes/AN902_8GB_or_More_of_System_RAM.pdf
 
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TheQuestian said:
Heh, awesome.

Alright, so let's see if I follow:
- It's all about speed, timings, and voltage.
- RAM at 2000MHz is faster than RAM at 1333MHz, given the same timings.
- RAM running 2000MHz at 1.6V is superior to RAM running 1333 at 1.7V, given the voltage limitations of the i5 IMC.

Yes?
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Pretty much. To be a stickler about terminology, RAM running 2000MHz at 1.6V is superior to RAM running 1333MHz at 1.7V anyway (simply because if you give the 2000MHz RAM 1.7V as well, it might be able to do 2200MHz+), but it's just that much more well suited for i5/i7 operation.

TheQuestian said:
So, if I understand all of that correctly, I will have to "undervolt" my current RAM to 1.65V so that it will run safely in my system. And by doing this, I will likely lose some performance. Well, if understand all of that correctly, I think this is where I stand.
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Pretty much. Using less voltage will put more strain on the memory, but it still might run fine at 9-9-9-20, you'll have to play around with it. I've generally found that like CPUs, most RAM sticks are rated very conservatively and have some decent breathing room for tweaking.

TheQuestian said:
I think I want to try to undervolt the RAM I've got. Basically, so long as it won't pose a thread to my system, I think I am dealing with way more speed than I'll ever need. I think I just want my RAM to let my system post, not cook my processor, and run stable. As I said, I'm upgrading from a laughable DC7100 that I got for free from the "donation" room at my old job.
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Totally up to you. Like I said before, RAM speed has a minimal effect on system performance in the grand scheme of things. And who knows, you might be able to crank these sticks down, just take a bit to play around with them when you install.

TheQuestian said:
To use a car reference (;)), I would compare it to peddling a bicycle by the side of the road, next to a BMW and a Corvette in a drag race. As they passed, I would see two blurs, and I would feel a breeze. Now, if someone asked me, "Which of those would you rather be in?" My answer would be, "Heh, what's the difference?" And they could explain the difference in engine size, gear ratios, top speed, etc. But I would just be thinking, "I dunno. They both seemed pretty friggin' fast."

So, if it's no bother to you, I will probably need your help again once my parts arrive. I have tinkered around in the BIOS of this HP, but I wouldn't have a clue how to undervolt my RAM. Thanks for your help! I think my brain grew two sizes, today. :D
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Post here, post a new thread, send me a PM, whatever, I'm glad to help :cool:.

hungryJonJon said:
Also, I think 2000MHz with slower (higher) timings can still be faster than 1333MHz with faster (lower) timings because in the same cycle it can still do more. Hopefully Mr. K6 or someone else can verify or deny that. I don't know how much 100MHz of RAM speed equals in timing but someone else might have an idea.
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It's unfortunately all relative and heavily application dependent. In my personal experience, it's easier to get better performance out of faster RAM with looser timings than to try to tighten down timings enough at slower speeds (lots of RAM won't go below a certain timing, no matter how much you reduce the frequency or overvolt it). But, because RAM speed has such little impact on performance, I usually adjust my RAM speed based on my CPU clock. For example, my CPU runs 3.8GHz stably at 190x20. My memory multipliers are 6x, 8x, or 10x. I choose to run 1900MHz, and then tighten down the timings as low as they can go, which seems to be 8-8-7-18. This RAM needs more voltage to do tighter than that, but I think it can do these speeds and timings with less voltage, so now I'm testing to back off the voltage (the thought being why overvolt if it isn't necessary for stability?).
zukihara said:
http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=3589
That is a good article showing performance of various ram speeds and timings.
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That's a great article to really nail home the point about the minimal effect of RAM speed on system performance. Basically, anything 1333MHz and higher as little to no impact on performance - you can thank the IMC for that :).
 
Mr. K6 said:
Totally up to you. Like I said before, RAM speed has a minimal effect on system performance in the grand scheme of things. And who knows, you might be able to crank these sticks down, just take a bit to play around with them when you install.
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Ah, heck. So I broke down and RMA'd the OCZ sticks. I am waiting on the rest of my build to arrive, anyway, so there's no reason not to. I decided to go with this set of Corsair. I hope I did it right; I tried to follow the guidelines, but I am still just a lowly grasshoppa!

Thanks for all the help! I will still probably be back to ask you about overclocking. My mobo has an OC Genie feature, and I am concerned about RAM issues.
 
I'm not sure you can go wrong with dominators. Good choice.

You can almost bet that your OC Genie isn't going to get the memory right and you will have to tinker with it. Here's another link to help with that.

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=799

It's a GD-65, but should help where you need it!
 
Come to think of it, after reading that article (and this one), I don't think I want to use the OC Genie. Heh, I'm not gonna half-ass this overclock. I'm going whole-ass . . . which means I'll definitely be back here for help. :D
 
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I think the reason many people go above and beyond and keep threads going like this is trying to help the people with the same questions, prior to them having to post. Not so much to bombard you with solutions after your purchase :)
 
zukihara said:
I think the reason many people go above and beyond and keep threads going like this is trying to help the people with the same questions, prior to them having to post. Not so much to bombard you with solutions after your purchase. :)
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That's a really good point. I have gotten most of my answers without ever having to ask.
 
PC_User said:
Just make sure you'll have enough clearance with your CPU heatsink.
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Thanks, that is something to watch. The H50 seems to be pretty tame in comparison to other more heavyweight coolers out there, though. The OCZ Reaper memory fit pretty well, and I'm thinking the Dominator is a bit shorter, even.
 
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