Will the Ryzen 3000 chiplet layout cause heat sink headaches?

Discussion in 'AMD Processors' started by Fuzzy_3D, Jun 12, 2019.

  1. Fuzzy_3D

    Fuzzy_3D Limp Gawd

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    I was looking at the chiplet layout on the ryzen 3950x:

    Ryzen9_3800X_Hand_575px_678x452.jpg


    The off-center chiplets got me thinking about heat sink/cold plate orientation and design. Past single chip dies meant concentrated cooling effects in the middle, but with this layout, it looks like some formerly reliable coolers might not be very efficient when mounted on a ryzen 3000 CPU. :depressed:
     
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  2. compgeek89

    compgeek89 Limp Gawd

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    They come with LN2 coolers in the retail packaging. 5GHz or die. :playful:
     
  3. Randall Stephens

    Randall Stephens Limp Gawd

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    I imagine it won't be any worse than threadripper with its offset from the middle dies.
     
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  4. Fuzzy_3D

    Fuzzy_3D Limp Gawd

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    That's kinda the worst case scenario I imagined, since few standard heat sinks worked properly on the threadripper.

    Looks like neither my NH-D15 or my H115i will be much good here. Not the end of the world, just one more item on the shopping list. (y)
     
  5. Randall Stephens

    Randall Stephens Limp Gawd

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    Everything I remember seeing about TR was that if a die was covered it got sufficient cooling. Did you see something else?
     
  6. dragonstongue

    dragonstongue 2[H]4U

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    you'll know more once released etc.
    it could be by them doing said chiplet it might likely actually help as I can only imagine the heat from the IO die is as much or more than the main "chips" seeing as they have the majority of the high speed connections inside that new chiplet, so it might be the 14nm IO chiplet is where the "hotspot" is, vs standard designs where the heat is a more generalized "everywhere"

    IMO....^.^
     
  7. N4CR

    N4CR 2[H]4U

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    Could always run a copper heatspreader but it might hurt temps a little. Just hope it's not the end of the line for my OG 939 Scythe Ninja that's been through three or four builds now, hopefully it has enough footprint.
     
  8. N4CR

    N4CR 2[H]4U

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    The same IO chip is what is used in the x570 and they are only 15W (all the RGB POS boards using active cooling for 15W... ffs) so it will be less than the chiplets.

    They should do boards like pic related again, I'd pay extra for it to save hassle of modding it myself..

    p35p_circu2.jpg msi8.jpg msi6.jpg
     
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  9. Westwood Arrakis

    Westwood Arrakis [H]ard|Gawd

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    ^^At first glance, I thought the first pic was Roller Coaster Tycoon with RTX enabled.
     
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  10. mnewxcv

    mnewxcv [H]ardness Supreme

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    the amd IHS does a great job transferring heat as it is. I'm really not worried about temps with this new CPU, though water cooling with 16 cores seems like a good idea if you want to attempt overclocking.
     
  11. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    The only issues would be with assembly, i.e., if the IHS isn't making full contact with all three dies there could be uneven cooling performance.

    And that's not very likely. AMD has been doing this for a while, as have many in the industry.

    Now, if you want to delid...
     
  12. Alienslare

    Alienslare Limp Gawd

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    I think the TDP is around 105w and it shouldn’t be an issue. But if you are planning to buy one i guess no one will use average cooling solution for it. As its unlocked cpu overclocking wont hurt that much so better keep an eye on AIO
     
  13. N4CR

    N4CR 2[H]4U

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    Hahaha great observation it is quite a lollercoaster. Or one of those crazy water park rides :D

    Yeah no thanks on the delidding. There were already some issues with Vega not having same die heights depending on where the molding was done and I can't imagine it'll always be perfect on Zen2.
    Intel and AMD using indium solder regularly these days (an increasingly rare material - not the best move IMO) should prevent any of these die height issues for most normal use. Other part is I get a feeling bit like the 9900 that we will begin to increasingly run into the thermal dissipation limits of Silicon. So the heatspreader won't be the weak link.. getting the heat out of the silicon will be especially with such high densities as 10-5 marketing nm and beyond.
    I know one solution that would help but it costs more than the CPU itself in many cases and I have not even seen LN2 guys using it yet ( really want to try it in future).. it's all about thermal gradients at this point.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
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  14. TheRookie

    TheRookie Limp Gawd

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    Since the heatsink should cover the entire heat-spreader on the processor, there shouldn't be an issue
     
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  15. chameleoneel

    chameleoneel 2[H]4U

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    These are physcially small than threadripper. Should be fine.
     
  16. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    This is AM4, so assuming (which we should) that the IHS mating to the dies is solid, there should be no difference between Ryzen 3000 and previous Ryzen and other AM4 CPUs.
     
  17. Flexion

    Flexion [H]ard|Gawd

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    The stuff of nightmares. XD
     
  18. N4CR

    N4CR 2[H]4U

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    I'll take that over a groaning 40mm fan bearing dying a slow death any day though. Now that's truly a nightmare sound.
     
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  19. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Noctuas come in 40mm...
     
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  20. N4CR

    N4CR 2[H]4U

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    Oh gosh I didn't know that. If anyone could get the bearings to last ( other than delta) it would be them. My main issue is the diameter and speed required to do more than make noise is the elephant in the room. 40mm and quiet is basically useless. Even 60mm is leagues ahead. Just like subwoofers and engines, there is no replacement for displacement.
     
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  21. Randall Stephens

    Randall Stephens Limp Gawd

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    I use a noctua 40mm on the heat break for my 3d printer. it's quiet. it cools well. If they were to slap noctuas on these boards, I'd have zero hesitation. I don't think they'll be noctuas though.

    Not my printer, but here's one.
    54578611656798245210940077c32ced_preview_featured.jpg
     
  22. Nathan_P

    Nathan_P [H]ard DCOTM x2

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    Well, its roughly 65w for the 1 chiplet cpu's and 105w for the 2 chiplet cpu's. In simple maths that 40w for each chiplet and 25w for the I/O die.

    But its a valid question, lets see what happens when the reviewers get their chips.
     
  23. N4CR

    N4CR 2[H]4U

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    Wow ok that's significantly better fin to motor ratio than most 40mm I see... Might actually have a chance to move air. Looks great!! Thanks for posting that.
     
  24. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

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    I think AMD probably thought of this ahead of time before going more chiplets and io with zen 2. THere is a thread on reddit about them using material to gain common height.

     
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  25. Nobu

    Nobu 2[H]4U

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    Yeah, they have 10 and 20mm versions, the 20mm ones have a much lower noise spec, probably don't have to spin as fast.
     
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