Wicked Lasers Spyder III Arctic 1W Blue Laser *screaming*

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Wow, 10 pages and not 1 practical use for this 1W hand held laser pointer. Can't use it for CNC, how would you mount a laser pointer, and boy what a sorry excuse for a use. Use it for burning? Why not a soldering iron, you can look at it, burn, and even your kid can burn his name in the wood and not get blinded.

I can't wait to see the youtube videos of people using these things. I'll bet there won't be one with a practical application. People will burn things. That's it. Skin, animals, pop balloons, and probably half of the people get eye damage from the light, from the reflection popping the balloon.

This shouldn't be banned, but require a background check and be of legal age, just like a gun. I would say 3mw or <3m should be the considered legal. God people, lasers are so dangerous to your eyes!
 
mercury529 said:
And where exactly does that stop. Should someone be allowed to purchase weapons-grade plutonium? Should I be allowed to develop and sell biological weapons? After all, you seem to think the the government has no right to tell me I can't own a nuclear warhead or anthrax.
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How many people have the money to purchase it?

I don't think your disgruntled next door neighbor is going to be able to pick up a nuke at Wal-Mart just to show you what he thinks of your kids breaking the window in his garage.
 
Monkey God said:
Thats fine and dandy until some 12yo shithead in the back of an SUV blinds 50 people.
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Very true. I think law enforcement needs to raise awareness of these things and be fully prepared to deal with them. The general public need to understand the risks and implications of these devices.
 
Monkey God said:
Thats fine and dandy until some 12yo shithead in the back of an SUV blinds 50 people.
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We should take rocks away from 12yos too before they throw a rock at a freeway causing a 16 car pile up and killing 30 people. While we're at it, let's make sure paper airplanes are taken away cause they might distract drivers and cause accidents if a 12 yo gets ahold of them.
 
vengence said:
We should take rocks away from 12yos too before they throw a rock at a freeway causing a 16 car pile up and killing 30 people. While we're at it, let's make sure paper airplanes are taken away cause they might distract drivers and cause accidents if a 12 yo gets ahold of them.
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Based on the replies in this thread, correct, I wouldn't trust most of you with unfettered access to rocks either.
 
vengence said:
We should take rocks away from 12yos too before they throw a rock at a freeway causing a 16 car pile up and killing 30 people. While we're at it, let's make sure paper airplanes are taken away cause they might distract drivers and cause accidents if a 12 yo gets ahold of them.
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Dude?
Seriously?
Perspective? Scale? Dont be so dramatic.

Ive had kids throw shit off overpasses at me, and I have been shot in the eye with a laser from some stupid ass kid in an SUV, luckily it was a lower power green pointer, only zinged me for a second or two. But it HAPPENS. Kids do stupid crap. I dont see any reason to make it easy for them.
 
vengence said:
No, you are..... blah blah blah .....ing next time?
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I skimmed this, no point in actually reading, but I got the jist I needed. See my reply below.

vengence said:
hahhahahahahha

Go back under your bridge, troll.
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I usually try to avoid the name calling and insults, but since it's apparently your language, why not.

You fail as a member of this society.

There.

Seriously, how many posts do you have here on these 1W blue laser topics, how much time have you spent defending these 1W blue lasers. What could possibly be your agenda, besides being some kind of freak for whom their own personal sanity depends on "their freedom to use 1 W blue lasers without licences or legal repercussions."

Given your insane response to this seemingly minor issue, it terrifies me to think that you are a gun owner. I wish background checks could better check for... insanity (besides the usual "official mental health background" checks)

Anyways, back to the original "insult." Let me explain. It is not nessisary for other people to convince you of, or even have the hope of your ability to comprehend, the merits of some sort of public controls over the sale and use of these lasers. Why? Because we live in a Democratic society. Ain't it great? Actually, it's a Democratic Republic, but that just means we can end up with a law to ban these much faster then if we were a pure Democracy.

Understand This: People have a right to argue their side of an issue. People have the right to their opinions, and a right to articulate their opinions in whatever manner they see fit. You see, no matter how hard you argue, or how angry you get, or how many posts you make, you will in the end essentially "lose" the argument if you are simply outnumbered. If 250,000,000 people want 1W blue lasers banned, and 120,000,000 people want them to remain unregulated, then they will be banned. Period.

If your goal is to try and keep them unregulated, indeed, one of your options is to be vocal about the issue, argue your point, and try to "make" as many people understand (and hopefully agree with) your side of why they should remain unregulated. However, in this case, since we are talking about proposing a change in law or creating a new law and you oppose this this is actually not the best option, infact, it would be in your best interest to NOT argue on a forum like this, and piss people off, draw attention to yourself. Doing these things will make people more likely to become vocal themselves, write their senators, and get something done.

I'll even give you some ideas on what might be a better way to keep these lasers unregulated as you so desire. Promote Safety. Go onto the laser forums, ebay, everywhere these lasers are sold and used, and promote and make public and clear as possible to as many people who will be using these as possible their dangers and the proper use of them. It is a good idea to do this as you may help avert injuries and incidents, and it's these events which will precicly lead to laws to ban these suckers. If you spent half the energy you expended here stamping your feet, you might actually do some good. But I think doing good is the last thing on your mind. :( . Keep a low profile, and keep these diodes and lasers low profile. You see, the less people who know about these lasers, the fewer people buy them and the fewer incidents will occur which will end on the news and then the next docket of the next session of Congress. You can fill in the rest.

Now, since you insist on just yelling at people on a computer forum,arguing with computer geeks about regulating/banning 1W blue lasers, let me give you some pointers, at least, that will improve the chances that your arguments will do any good to your cause of keeping these lasers unregulated. Now I would argue that ANY arguing or reasoning like you are doing will only serve to get these lasers banned faster, simply because you are drawing more attention to the issue. But, alas:
  1. Don't insult people, don't name call, don't be rude. Seriosuly, none of these things will serve to convince someone who is for banning these lasers to change their mind. In fact, it will only draw attention, piss them off, which will increase the liklyhood of another person writing their congressman, the next step to getting these banned.
  2. Don't do superficial things like pointlessly pick apart someone's points, point out fallacies, etc, in peoples OPINIONS, (in attempt to make them think their opinions or points are somehow "wrong.") (PROTIP: generally, opinions cannot be wrong). Don't call out their points and try to compare them to some "argument fallacies" that you read on Wikipedia. Seriously. We are talking about opinions here. There is no such thing as an argumentative fallacy when people are giving their opinions, got it? :) And guess what... it only serves to piss the laser-ban supporters off. You just increased the chances they'll write their congressman about the issue by tenfold in record time - also increasing the chances you will lose this "argument" in the end. Seriously, none of this does you any good. People don't care that you can break apart their post into 15 quotes and make a bunch of pointless picky comments, insults, idiotic assertions and stupid shit like "hey look how easy it is to shoot someone."
  3. Your only hope in "winning" one of these "arguments," that is, convincing someone to change their mind about the issue, is to play on their emotion or give something compelling on what you feel is wrong with banning 1W blue lasers. And telling them how easy it would be for you to go out and shoot 12 kids.... does not help you. Tell a history lesson. Repeat the 2nd amendment. Bring up some Supreme Court cases that might relate to the issue. Give some useful purposes of this laser. You have a lot of options.
  4. Get the idea?

You are probably doing more to get these lasers banned then any other single person so far here, lol. Maybe Congress should also consider what you might do with those guns of yours in response to a 1W Blue Laser Law after they pass it, given your rage fest!


I was very much on the fence on the issue myself. I even ordered one myself recently. It will literally the first laser I've ever owned besides the cheap one I got free at OTC. But after seeing your insane rants, I think I will actually be for their regulation and/or ban... if your personality represents the typical 1W Blue Laser Owner!
 
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Deadjasper said:
Nice to see others who are opposed to those who have a police mentality.
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I hope you're not misinterpreting my law enforcement post. I'm all for minimal regulations and police-ocity. That's not to say that there shouldn't be public awareness of these devices. Everyone sane already knows how dangerous guns are, but not how dangerous these are. It has nothing to do with laws, more just like awareness campaigns.

I have made my stance on this issue very clear: Non-felons over 18 should be able to own one without the government knowing or getting in their business. Nuff said. That's not to say that there shouldn't be serious repercussions for abusing a laser like this though. They are serious devices and should be treated seriously and with respect. Let's just all agree to be level-headed here. :)
 
ordovician said:
I hope you're not misinterpreting my law enforcement post. I'm all for minimal regulations and police-ocity. That's not to say that there shouldn't be public awareness of these devices. Everyone sane already knows how dangerous guns are, but not how dangerous these are. It has nothing to do with laws, more just like awareness campaigns.

I have made my stance on this issue very clear: Non-felons over 18 should be able to own one without the government knowing or getting in their business. Nuff said. That's not to say that there shouldn't be serious repercussions for abusing a laser like this though. They are serious devices and should be treated seriously and with respect. Let's just all agree to be level-headed here. :)
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Here Here.
Thankfully Mr. vengenc of this thread has done an excellent job so far at expanding awareness, perhaps he's even spured a few letters to Congressmen as well, lol.

...

By the way, you say "non-felons," does this mean you support some kind of background check requirement to purchase? Just curious.
 
Stiletto said:
How many people have the money to purchase it?

I don't think your disgruntled next door neighbor is going to be able to pick up a nuke at Wal-Mart just to show you what he thinks of your kids breaking the window in his garage.
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I honestly don't know what point you are trying to make. My question about nukes/anthrax was based on the fact that people say you can't restrict/license/register these devices because it is a slippery slope. To support that stance, you have to also agree that you can't restrict owning/selling nuclear devices or anthrax because it would also lead to a slippery slope. It's simply a logical device to understand whether people genuinely believe the government has no right to meddle in anything or that it is warranted in certain cases.

Personally, I think the government has the right to restrict/license/register when the situation warrants it. I think an item that has no practical purpose but poses a serious risk to the public if mishandled is something that government has the right to step in and legislate.

For me an item that can do significant harm (blinding drivers) without leaving any evidence is a rather effective weapon. And seeing how no one has presented a single good purpose for this laser in the thread that doesn't exist in a safer/superior variant, this makes it a very dangerous toy or a legitimate weapon.
 
mercury529 said:
Personally, I think the government has the right to restrict/license/register when the situation warrants it. I think an item that has no practical purpose but poses a serious risk to the public if mishandled is something that government has the right to step in and legislate.
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Great, you have opinions, good for you. :rolleyes:
 
Bladestorm said:
Great, you have opinions, good for you. :rolleyes:
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It may be too soon to judge, but it seems that you 1W Blue LaZeR SuPpoRteRz have a lot in common. Well, at least the desire to insult, hate and the inability to present an argument or opinion that even remotely resembles something which will help your own cause.

I predict these things are going to get some kind of regulation or ban, in a hurry.

I am going to be annoyed if I can't resell this one I have on order or make some use of it before you LaZeR SuPpoRteRz get it made illegal :mad:. Maybe they'll just ban the sale of them or something. :D
 
I find it outrageous that the government is trying to stop me from buying electronic cigarettes which could and have helped many people quit smoking yet any idiot off the street can just buy one of these which unlike my e-cig can, very easily btw, harm others. You can unintentionally harm someone's vision for the rest of their life with this "toy".
 
StoneTZ said:
I think being awesome is a legit reason to own it.
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I'm waiting to see if it is indeed awesome before I order one. Hopefully someone will chime in who has actually held one in their hands. Hopefully this isn't just so much hype.
 
Bladestorm said:
Great, you have opinions, good for you. :rolleyes:
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You didn't bother to make that same comment for the people who expressed opinions you agree with. I guess people who agree with you are allowed to have opinions. But those who don't you'll be intolerant and roll your eyes at. That's not exactly a mature reaction.

You do realize public opinion (at least naively) guides government policy right? By living in a republic, you'd better expect as much. So however insignificantly it may seem, my opinion, like yours, matters.

I am a Republican in the traditional sense of the word (i.e. favoring less government), but there is certainly need for the government intervention and regulation for certain matters. I happen to think regulation is warranted for an item that is poses a serious danger, is easily concealed, leaves no evidence, can be used from range, and lacks practical application. I'd frankly rather see regulation on these than what punishment would have to given out to adequately serve as a deterrent for misuse.
 
StoneTZ said:
I think being awesome is a legit reason to own it.
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I gotta say, this is by far the best argument/opinion (sadly?) I've seen yet on the 1W BLue LaZeR SuPp...'s side. :D

Deadjasper said:
I'm waiting to see if it is indeed awesome before I order one. Hopefully someone will chime in who has actually held one in their hands. Hopefully this isn't just so much hype.
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I'll try to post my impression when I get mine. For some perspective, my only experience with lasers is the little 500 microwatt freebe red laser I got at a conference. I am an enginner however, so I have some perspective of my own. ;)
 
mercury529 said:
You didn't bother to make that same comment for the people who expressed opinions you agree with. I guess people who agree with you are allowed to have opinions. But those who don't you'll be intolerant and roll your eyes at. That's not exactly a mature reaction.

You do realize public opinion (at least naively) guides government policy right? By living in a republic, you'd better expect as much. So however insignificantly it may seem, my opinion, like yours, matters.

I am a Republican in the traditional sense of the word (i.e. favoring less government), but there is certainly need for the government intervention and regulation for certain matters. I happen to think regulation is warranted for an item that is poses a serious danger, is easily concealed, leaves no evidence, can be used from range, and lacks practical application. I'd frankly rather see regulation on these than what punishment would have to given out to adequately serve as a deterrent for misuse.
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I think we should do some real Human Experimentation using this LaZeR ASAP. Mine is on order, ETA 5+ weeks, I'll specify the full test protocol and the equipment; we just need the Human(s). Any volunteers? If no one volunteers, I'll just start picking subjects.
 
okashira said:
I skimmed this, no point in actually reading, but I got the jist I needed. See my reply below.
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I didn't actually read what you wrote but you're wrong.

Or did you expect me to bother reading your giant wall of soapbox text after you admitted you didn't actually read anything you just felt like going off on some internet road rage?
 
okashira said:
Here Here.
Thankfully Mr. vengenc of this thread has done an excellent job so far at expanding awareness, perhaps he's even spured a few letters to Congressmen as well, lol.

...

By the way, you say "non-felons," does this mean you support some kind of background check requirement to purchase? Just curious.
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I don't know if I do or not, to be quite honest. I can see the issue both ways.
 
mercury529 said:
Where in this thread did you mention practical applications for the laser? All I could find was your directing to another thread. It's kind of an unrealistic expectation to ask other people to read a 9 page thread for your comments when you won't even take the time to paste your own ideas in this thread. I did a quick search and all I turned up (not saying there isn't more elsewhere) was you saying it could be used for homemade fusion reactors. If you are conducting serious scientific experimentation with a dangerous tool, you shouldn't have any aversion to having to become licensed/registered.
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Woah Donkey!!!!! Why would I have no aversion to it? I have a lot of aversion to it specifically because I want it to be used in scientific uses. I do not like or want everyone to know what if any experiments I may be doing. Somethings that I do I do not mind everyone in the world knowing about (most things actually.) But believe that I have every right to conduct private experimentation without anyone else in the world knowing what experiments I might be doing, or knowing the lab equipment that I maybe using. (within reason of course, my experiments must not be putting other people in harms way or breaking any laws of course. I do not feel I have any right to put others at risk though negligence or really anything else.)

Especially considering you should understand how dangerous such an item is if mishandled by unqualified individuals.
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I also know statistics, and I know (approximately) that the probability of this hurting me in any way is so absurdly low (near zero) at this time, that any and all discussion of regulation has no merit based on anything other than pure speculation by fear mongering. Does this have dangerous potential? Surely!!! But a lot of tools that are quite practical, are also very dangerous and if used irresponsibly even life threatening. Society has become acclimated to these tools and chemicals and so knows how, for the most part, to use them safely and effectively. This laser is unique from other dangerous tools, as many have pointed out. So we can all safely agree that none of use really know if this laser will become a problem in the future.

After all, we do agree that this laser can easily cause serious harm. Does that mean it will necessarily cause the level of harm that everyone here seems to think is inevitable? No...and as a mathematician (or very close to it) and as a semi-physics guy I feel I have at least some credentials for me come out now and say that without any data on usage of this laser there is NO evidence that this is going to cause any kind of significant harm. PERIOD!!!!! End of fricken story!!! It is speculation at best.

If, in the usual course of events, this laser becomes a problem, then, and only then, would I believe appropriate steps need to be taken to ensure public safety. Why? Because anything else really is irrational. With horribly insufficient data to make any kind of educated guess or otherwise, I do not see how there can be intelligent action taken at this point. I do not mind reasonable and informed government policy that actually benefits the public and is useful for ensuring the most liberty for the most people. That is exactly what this country needs, and it is precisely what everyone who is calling for this laser to be prematurely regulated is trying to block from happening.

BTW:
The reason I posted links to the other thread is because I do not like having to repeat myself over and over and over and over......ad nauseum. Which is what I end up doing because there are two different threads in two different place, and people do not read the discussion and just jump in at some random spot and start making post.
 
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mercury529 said:
Personally, I think the government has the right to restrict/license/register when the situation warrants it. I think an item that has no practical purpose but poses a serious risk to the public if mishandled is something that government has the right to step in and legislate.
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First of all, the government is not granted rights. The people are granted rights by governments. Ever notice there has never been a bill of rights for the government? That is because the gov does not require it.

Second of all, I agree with everything above with the following exceptions. It does have practical usage, experiments are certainly practical use (do not decide what is or is not practical for everyone else.)

Now as for this lasers potential for causing harm, I also agree that there exist a lot of potential. Show me any kind of evidence that this potential will be realized, and I am with you on the need for informed regulation (not the knee jerk/ uninformed kind.)

For me an item that can do significant harm (blinding drivers) without leaving any evidence is a rather effective weapon. And seeing how no one has presented a single good purpose for this laser in the thread that doesn't exist in a safer/superior variant, this makes it a very dangerous toy or a legitimate weapon.
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This thread does not represent a good sample for ideas of practical use of this laser. Those idea may yet come, and yes....unnecessary regulation can and does stifle innovation and entrepreneurship. Can't we agree that liberty is at least worth waiting to see if this laser becomes a problem before we start writing letters to congress persons?
 
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1 said:
First of all, the government is not granted rights. The people are granted rights by governments. Ever notice there has never been a bill of rights for the government? That is because the gov does not require it.

Second of all, I agree with everything above with the following exceptions. It does have practical usage, experiments are certainly practical use (do not decide what is or is not practical for everyone else.)

Now as for this lasers potential for causing harm, I also agree that there exist a lot of potential. Show me any kind of evidence that this potential will be realized, and I am with you on the need for informed regulation (not the knee jerk/ uninformed kind.)



This thread does not represent a good sample for ideas of practical use of this laser. Those idea may yet come, and yes....unnecessary regulation can and does stifle innovation and entrepreneurship. Can't we agree that liberty is at least worth waiting to see if this laser becomes a problem before we start writing letters to congress persons?
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It seems that very little is actually known about this device. Had the manufacturer posted some data on their site, I think there would be much more or less reason why these things should be able to be had by anyone. However, based on the email they send out after you order, I think we know that this company is run by some immature asshats who happen to have hard-ons for lasers. Based on the packaging of the product, it's obvious they manufacture these things to be used as toys.

I feel that your wait and see what happens attitude is extremely naive. However, any bad use of these devices is extremely difficult to trace and prove, especially since the law does not require registration. Of all the people that will purchase these things, a very small percentage will be for "real" research purposes and you know that as well. Most people will likely buy it for the wow factor, use it a few times, and put it in the closet and forget about it because there simply isn't much you can do with it and much care is needed when using it, so it will actually be a pain to show off in front of a group since you will likely need protective eye wear for everyone.

It certainly has a coolness factor, but the uselessness factor far outweighs the coolness IMO.
 
1 said:
Can't we agree that liberty is at least worth waiting to see if this laser becomes a problem before we start writing letters to congress persons?
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Uh. no. If this thing were in the realm of normal laser pointers where you need some fairly lengthy exposure before you can do harm then I'd agree with you. But this thing is INSTANT blindness, and in a matter of a few seconds, can cause human flesh to burn. This is not a toy. If your next door neighbor had one of these and could shine it into your home, wouldn't you want someone to know about it? If your next door neighbor was doing "experiments" in his fuckin basement using high powered devices, wouldn't you want to know about it? This is just one of those things that has very little use in the everyday home.
 
mercury529 said:
You do realize public opinion (at least naively) guides government policy right? By living in a republic, you'd better expect as much. So however insignificantly it may seem, my opinion, like yours, matters.
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Since your making the claim, let's see you back it up. Factually what is a "Republic"?

mercury529 said:
I am a Republican in the traditional sense of the word (i.e. favoring less government), but there is certainly need for the government intervention and regulation for certain matters. I happen to think regulation is warranted for an item that is poses a serious danger, is easily concealed, leaves no evidence, can be used from range, and lacks practical application. I'd frankly rather see regulation on these than what punishment would have to given out to adequately serve as a deterrent for misuse.
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No, your just another person who thinks their version of tyranny is better than everyone else's.

Now, to repeat myself,

Other people are not your property!
 
Bladestorm said:
Other people are not your property!
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Perhaps you should come up with somthing other then this... I cannot draw any connection this phrase has with the discussion...? :confused:

The government regulates that you can't buy methamphetamine, alcohol if you are under 21, fully automatic weapons, grow and harvest opium, drive your car on the sidewalk, smoke indoors... but suddenly they "don't have the right" to regulate another dangerous object, one of which its very purpose lends itself to immature users doing immature things with it? I don't see you complaining that "people are not your property" in response to bans of drugs, assault rifles, sidewalk driving, booze... or is it maybe this topic has finally "hit home," with you, the threat of regulating something you desire scares you and suddenly you cry foul about a major portion of one of the primary concepts and purposes of government. That would be a little hypocritical...

Sheesh. Anyways, keep it up, I guess. All of this only serves to draw more attention to the "issue," which can only lead to a better chance of some sort of law. Maybe I can play with mine a bit before that happens. Anyone have a clue when these are supposed to ship?
 
okashira said:
The government regulates that you can't buy methamphetamine, alcohol if you are under 21, fully automatic weapons, grow and harvest opium, drive your car on the sidewalk, smoke indoors... but suddenly they "don't have the right" to regulate another dangerous object, one of which its very purpose lends itself to immature users doing immature things with it?
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Tell me, how has all of that regulation worked out so far?
 
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