Why you wish the PPU to fail.

Id like them to suceed because it has the potential to make gaming better and gives me more options. Sure its expensive now, but this is the bleeding edge and its all optional. hell anything more than a 100$ video card added to your average dell box is optional for gaming. In the long run I see the potential for the PPU to take the place of the GPU as the most important part of a gaming rig.
As we get more photo realistic visuals, the fact that they don't react correctly is going to be what kills the suspended disbelief and overall experience. I don't htink were there yet, parlty due to the fact that graphics cards can't render the thousands of particles/rigid bodies the PPu can keep track of.
 
Couple things:

If I get one and those at a lan dont have one, if theres an explosion or something physics related happening am I going to have to wait for them or are they going to have to wait for me to get through it?

Second its another piece of hardware that will become popular to have. Just like its popular to have dual graphics cards.

Third, I have a sound card and a tv tuner in my system. With the way boards are going towards expansion slots Ill have very little room for adequate air flow. Add in the ppu and another video card, Im looking at having to buy faster fans...or a bigger case.

Fourth, Ill only use it what...2-3 hours a day I spend gaming? And the rest of the time it'll go un-used while I sit in windows using my applications. Now if they could come up with something amazing to use it in windows, then there is a +1 to getting it.

No thanks, Id rather spend that money on something else.
 
Viperlover said:
I hope it fails because i don't have the money for one.
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i dont want to spend money on it
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Ah, I get it. Because you don't feel like spending money on new hardware, it must fail and never be available to anyone else. That makes sense. :rolleyes:

So far, I've seen the following reasons why it must fail:

1. It doesn't come in PCI-E.
Rebuttal: Okay, two problems here. First, that isn't a reason why it must fail. It's something that needs to be improved. And, if AGEIA has any brains at all, they will fix it. Second, you are complaining about not haveing a slot for the PPU when you have two graphics cards in SLI. Well, with two graphics cards in SLI, you certainly aren't going to have a slot for a physics GPU available either.

2. It's too expensive.
Rebuttal: The price has been, and will continue, going down. It was three hundred, now it's two hundred. It's only a matter of time before it's one hundred, which appears to be the point at which everyone will buy it. And isn't a GPU dedicated to physics just as expensive?

3. No games out yet.
Rebuttal: So, because it doesn't have any games out now, you want it to fail and never have any games at all? The solution to this problem is to wait until more games are released, not ditch the technology. GPU physics have no games out either, yet everyone puts their trust in them. Does that really make sense?

4. Heat problems.
Rebuttal: A typical 2003 gaming system's active processors included one CPU and one GPU. A typcial 2006 gaming system's active processors include two CPU cores, two GPUs, and a sound processor. Have our systems burned up yet? No, they haven't. And if we can handle eight cores in that case, we can handle one more processor in the form of a PPU. (Also, wouldn't a physics GPU produce equivalent, if not more, heat?)

5. A PPU requires a new card; a GPU is something we already have.
Rebuttal: This is the worst argument I've heard. If you want a GPU dedicated to physics, you must buy a GPU dedicated to physics. There is a chance that your old GPU might work, but neither company has said anything about that. And not everyone keeps their old hardware. Some people sell it, use the step-up program, or give it to a family member.

6. Why don't we just utillize the extra cores on our CPUs?
Rebuttal: For the last time, a CPU, even multi-core, does not have anywhere near the power of a PPU or GPU, and any solution that splits physics between cores would be extremely inefficient.

7. I don't want to buy one.
Rebuttal: Just because you don't want one right now (in fact, I don't want one right now either) doesn't mean the technology should never advance. That's like saying that you don't want Blu-Ray/HD-DVD to ever see the light of day because you don't feel the need to buy a player right now.

Overall, the success of a PPU can only mean more competition, lower prices, and more choices for us. I cannot believe that a hardware forum is actually opposed to the development of new technology. It just doesn't make sense.
 
I want it to fail because I want multi core processors to be used in games more, and I dont want devs to branch off to design something for a PPU when other things can accomplish the task, without making me pay another 300 dollars. Example: Crysis has massive amounts of physics, and doesnt use a PPU, so im guessing a CPU can handle all that perfectly fine.
 
I don't want it to fail, but I don't want it to succeed either, I don't really care either way.

As others have already said: "Show me the games".

Unless and until the PPU is proven to significantly enhance quality games that I want to play it is of exactly 0 use to me and I won't buy one.

Same goes for (wallet)Killernic.
 
Big Fat Duck said:
I want it to fail because I want multi core processors to be used in games more,
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Do you mean more then two cores. that would be the Quad core. Or do you mean Dual cores. Both will become common hardware and one day be mainstream. And thus Used for gaming. As Games will be more SMP in the future to put good use off Multi and Dual cores. This is allready coming. So there will be more Physics avaible with newer CPU but that not the competition for PPU and the other. havok.
What ever happens Next generation games will have more Physics. But it's more how múch more.
and I dont want devs to branch off to design something for a PPU when other things can accomplish the task, without making me pay another 300 dollars.
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A PPU is dedicated optimum hardware special for Physics computations. A CPU can't touch that. It has a lot off other things to do. A PPU not. They are branching off with a much larger Physic task.

Wich mean a Dual core or multi core have a lot of task and one off them is off load a much more larger Physics load, then itself can handle, off loading to a dedicated PPU wich si specialised for that.
See it like this.
thunderbird 1200 is 5% Physics load, shared task.
Athlon 3400+ is like 15%
X2 3800+ is like 100% wenn one core used for Physics
A conroe is like 150%
a conroe EE is like 200%
A PPU is like 700%
A GPU is like 100 to 1000%(R600)
PPU2 would be 1500% and R700 also something like that.
A Fictive scaling example.:)

A fourth generation CPU will be able to reach that level after 5 years?
Wich means PPU gamers game at a level wich Multi core reach a generations later.
This is just the first PPU. Nextgenerations will be more competitve.
While later a Conroe EE have to deal also with the Physicx power of a R600 put to use for Physics only. Someday if Ageia is still in the race. PPU2 will come.

If you don;t want it. Others will ,so it will not fail, if enough people want it. Means you must put the Physics slide way back. So a Multi core can handle the game.
Because what you want Ageia but also HavokFX ATI and nV must fail for there Hardware acceleration adventure to fade away. Off try'in to start a new market for Physc hardware.
Example: Crysis has massive amounts of physics, and doesnt use a PPU, so im guessing a CPU can handle all that perfectly fine.
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No, chrysis use Physics wisly, for what can be done on a DC CPU. A PPU and SM3+ GPU's can do much more but at the moment is far from common hardware for that use.
It's more Crysis use Physics wisly. So more a good use of Physics features with the power avaible today. A PPU would enhanced that even to a more higher detail or larger scale. Dito for a dedicated GPU for Physics.

If you want to use CPU Muti and dual core for it. It means keepin a traditional smaller step forward and thus depending on CPU scaling for Phjysics power. PPU and GPU for physiics is a large Physics step on top of that CPU scaling. And this Dedicated Hardware will have its own Produckt cycle. And scale to.

Crysis is not the end level of realism what can be reach with Physics. It's a begin. wich happens to look good. Ageia and Havok with aTI + nV will pump it up a bit more.

It's like reaching for Foto realistic rendering wich is still far away.. enhance with reallife like fine detaild Physics. We are with both very far to reach that. It's a long road. PPU the use of hardware accelerated solution is just a large step to on that long road.

So Guess what I don't want it to fail. But in time. This hardware will get cheaper. woth low to high-end options.
 
Second, you are complaining about not haveing a slot for the PPU when you have two graphics cards in SLI. Well, with two graphics cards in SLI, you certainly aren't going to have a slot for a physics GPU available either.
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Eh? :confused: If one has SLI/Crossfire they already will be able to power physics through their GPU's (just not as well as ATi's "Triple Play", but you don't need three GPU's to process physics through engines like Havok FX). And if they made a PCI-E 1x physics GPU, I would consider buying it too; the same goes for the PPU. I at least have the option right now to have some of my physics powered through Havok FX with no additional costs. Right now I don't have that option with the PPU.
 
I'm not on either side... don't care if it fails or if it succeeds.

Bottomline if the hardware can show significant computer improvements via meaningful benchmarks and it continues to improve then eventually more and more gamers will move towards using the hardware.
 
Moofasa~ said:
Eh? :confused: If one has SLI/Crossfire they already will be able to power physics through their GPU's (just not as well as ATi's "Triple Play", but you don't need three GPU's to process physics through engines like Havok FX). And if they made a PCI-E 1x physics GPU, I would consider buying it too; the same goes for the PPU. I at least have the option right now to have some of my physics powered through Havok FX with no additional costs. Right now I don't have that option with the PPU.
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Yeah, if you want to disable SLI for the sake of physics. Would you want to go back to single-card operation (for graphics) when you paid for SLI, because one of the cards must be used for physics?

And, aside from ATI's triple play, making a second GPU mandatory for physics would completely close the market for SLI graphics. I want SLI to at least remain an option for me someday.

Also, a PCI-E 1x physics GPU would be almost identical to a PPU. You would just be paying for extra memory that you don't need.
 
Yeah, if you want to disable SLI for the sake of physics. Would you want to go back to single-card operation (for graphics) when you paid for SLI, because one of the cards must be used for physics?

And, aside from ATI's triple play, making a second GPU mandatory for physics would completely close the market for SLI graphics. I want SLI to at least remain an option for me someday.
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You don't need to disable SLI/Crossfire; in fact, I believe ATi can power Havok FX with just one video card. Physics would just require the GPU to make a second pass. Sure, technically there will be a loss in performance due to the extra latency, but in many cases where games are CPU limited, a user may not notice the performance lost (since the GPU is waiting on the CPU to begin with). Either way, the performance will still be higher than just rendering physics solely on the CPU (and you don't have to pay an extra $300).

Also, a PCI-E 1x physics GPU would be almost identical to a PPU. You would just be paying for extra memory that you don't need.
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I wasn't aware that a PPU cost less than a X1600... :rolleyes: ...And according to Beyond3D...ATi will make a PCI-E x1 version...

Beyond3D News said:
We therefore surmise that FireStream products from ATI will come in significantly different configurations to those you're used to seeing for desktop discrete graphics, possibly without any display outputs at all, and almost certainly with different PCI Express slot configurations for use in platforms providing 1x, 2x, 4x and 8x slots -- in addition to PEG16X of course. We invisage stream processing clusters with multiple FireStream boards per system, possibly with multiple GPUs per board, designed to exploit their DPVM efforts and accelerate parallel processing problems that fit a modern GPU, as well as their recent Havok FX relationship for the mainstream. Also, thinking about spy shots of upcoming Radeon desktop boards with NVIDIA-like inter-board connectors, we see no reason why future FireStream/DVPM can't also exploit those 'Crossfire' links for concurrent high-bandwidth connection of multiple FireStream boards, for further performance increases and inter-GPU communication outside of the PCI Express bus.
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show me a couple of freakin sweet games that utilize a PPU ALOT, make it PCIe and ill buy one
 
Big Fat Duck said:
I want it to fail because I want multi core processors to be used in games more, and I dont want devs to branch off to design something for a PPU when other things can accomplish the task, without making me pay another 300 dollars. Example: Crysis has massive amounts of physics, and doesnt use a PPU, so im guessing a CPU can handle all that perfectly fine.
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they just dont get it.... i say it again and again and they just dont get it.

the way a gpu and cpu processes a thread is completly differant from the way a ppu does. you cannot get the same outcome in terms of physics from either a GPU or a CPU, that you can from a PPU. just not possible...

it doesnt cost $300 it costs $250.

what does gpu phsyics look like: its all make-up. it has no effect on the actual environment, this is why its been called effect physics! because yes, in crysis (btw albums terrible dont ever consider buying it for anything more then $4.99) you can shoot cans around, you can make leaves ruffle etc etc. thats it. the leaves ruffling wont effect anything you do. not your movement, not your shooting....

gameplay physics is, where if you throw a grenade into a cave, the cave effin collapses. you can walk on the debris, where before the collapse there was nothing but flat ground. it can calculate shrapnel damage from objects baised on size, density, and velocity. fire! thats a massive change! heat! i mean relly, in CS:S. iv got a dude trapped in a room with one exit. i know if i bust down the door im a dead man. hell just shoot me with his AK47. fuck i dont wanna go in there. what do i do? set the builing on fire! yes of course.. then he has to leave. and i own him. games over, we win. VS without physics, i throw a nade (which doesnt kill him) and am forced to run in where, the instant i set foot inside, my head is blown off.

the obvios next statement everyone makes is "so what!? i can take damage from shrapnel from blowing up a van. i did it in (insert generic title here) when i was on (insert generic map here)!" yes but you did it on a set track. while you can set fire to buildings, blow up cars and take damage from flying shrapnel, and blow up bridges in regular titles, you have to do it in certain conditions IE on a set track. every time you blow up that bridge it collapses the same way. every time you blow up that car the same peice of shrapnel hits you.

Physics is the biggest revolution Video Games.

edit1: its not up to ageia to put the core on PCI-e. its up to BFG and Asus. Ageia was too cheap to produce more then one type of referance board.

HOCP4ME said:
Also, a PCI-E 1x physics GPU would be almost identical to a PPU. You would just be paying for extra memory that you don't need.
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wooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwww.......

dude you cant comment. i'm not calling you stupid, but you know nothing of the architecture of a GPU and a PPU, and im not going to pretend to be a guru at it either. but i can tell you with certianty, a Pipe was never ment, and can never be jerry-rigged to do a physics thread nearly as well as the PPU.
 
the way a gpu and cpu processes a thread is completly differant from the way a ppu does. you cannot get the same outcome in terms of physics from either a GPU or a CPU, that you can from a PPU. just not possible...
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dude you cant comment. i'm not calling you stupid, but you know nothing of the architecture of a GPU and a PPU, and im not going to pretend to be a guru at it either. but i can tell you with certianty, a Pipe was never ment, and can never be jerry-rigged to do a physics thread nearly as well as the PPU.
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The big difference between a CPU and a GPU or PPU is the parallell processing. A CPU has a single pipeline. It does one thing at once, and is meant to do many different jobs. A GPU or PPU, however, has many pipelines. Since physics are massively parallell calculations, this is what allows a GPU or PPU to do much better than a CPU at physics. The GPU is meant to do just graphics, and the PPU is meant to do just physics.

But, the way the process data is essentially the same. They both rely on many pipelines to take care of parallell calculations. You can reprogram a GPU to do physics and get nearly the same performance out of it as a PPU.

So take away the 512MB of memory, remove the DVI output, take out the extra PCI-E lanes, and reprogram the chip for physics, and you've got yourself something pretty simillar to a PPU, at least when talking about performance.

You don't need to disable SLI/Crossfire; in fact, I believe ATi can power Havok FX with just one video card. Physics would just require the GPU to make a second pass. Sure, technically there will be a loss in performance due to the extra latency, but in many cases where games are CPU limited, a user may not notice the performance lost (since the GPU is waiting on the CPU to begin with). Either way, the performance will still be higher than just rendering physics solely on the CPU (and you don't have to pay an extra $300).
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Which brings me back to an idea I had a while ago. Make the GPU and PPU use a commone physics API (probably from Microsoft). If someone doesn't have a PPU in their system, use part of the GPU for physics, at a small expense to graphics performance. But, if they do have a PPU, use it instead, allowing the GPU(s) to be fully dedicated to graphics. Then, a GPU becomes the option for people who don't want to spend $200 but still want to play physics-enabled games. The PPU becomes the option for people who want the best performance possible and are willing to pay for it.

Now, someone tell me, what is wrong with that?
 
I look at the PPU issue along the same lines as the next gen DVD format. Until i am given a reason to invest i will not.

there is no reason for me to put my cash into any technolgy that bears no gain for me in its use.

but i guess i'm just nutty like that.

It will fail or succeed on it's own merrits. I have no deisre to see the technology fail, and when i am given a clear reason/advantage to implementing the technology, I will.

4974
 
Who wants it to fail? I think most of us don't care either way. Simple fact is that there is no compelling reason to buy a PPU, not one.

I'm not CPU-bound in any game I regularly play, not sure why I need to offload physics processing to a separate card when my cpu is sitting there twiddling its thumbs.

The PPU needs its own compelling applications, just like 3dfx had with Tomb Raider and Quake. With those two games, they covered most of the gamer market and gave them a very good reason to shell out for voodoo boards.

Cell Factor is no Quake, nor Tomb Raider, not even remotely close.
 
xxGriff said:
snip
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I agree, but I think the next DVD format has more to offer in terms of use compared to the PPU. More space is always a nice thing to have. Physics, not so much.
 
The PPU and this Killer NIC thing can wait, as far as I'm concerned. Until I see a need for them based on compelling new features that you can't get any other way, and until I see performance improvements, I really couldn't care less.

Once these things occur, then I will have to do some mobo rearrangement as I only have one PCI slot availible. And I have heard that future GPUs might have a second processor onboard to handle physics, and nothing else. So, then it's down to NIC vs. sound, I think the XFi wins there as my rig is fast enough that CPU being used for networking doesn't cause lag.
 
Because i dont want to have to buy another expensive product to get the most out of my games. im happy with the physics representation that we have now. No need to people to make fancy unnesicary stuff that i cant run without paying an additional 250$.
 
tskiller said:
Because i dont want to have to buy another expensive product to get the most out of my games. im happy with the physics representation that we have now. No need to people to make fancy unnesicary stuff that i cant run without paying an additional 250$.
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Were you happy before DX9? Was it unnecessary?

Were you happy before dual-core? Was it unnecessary?

Were you happy before DDR memory? Was it unnecessary?

Were you happy before the GPU? Was it unnecessary?

Were you happy before 32-bit processing? Was it unnecessary?

Because the PPU brings to the table a major advance in gaming that is just as big as everything I listed above.
 
Yes
Opteron 170 CCBWE 0543TPMW
2 gig (2x 1g) GSKILL DDR3200
DFI SLI-DR EXPERT
2x wd 320gig SATA + 1x 120gig SATA
ASUS DVD+-RW
Zalman 9500 LED w/AS5
ENERMAX LIBERTY 500w
BFG OC 7800 gtx 512
Dell 2407FPW
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A Nice balanced and up to date gamerig with a lot of storage..

A 7800GT256 cheaper model
Box cooler
1 WD 320GB and 120GB less
This equals almost a PPU.

On a game rig of $1800 to $3000 it's comes down into shifting budgeds per component.
The higher budged the easier shifting.

Take away $50 From CPU GPU
1 HD instead 3
Even $50 -100 from monitor
That could be PPU
Or add $100 to Game rig budged so you have only to shift $150.

But in case of upgrading wenn Gamerig already up to date.

Wenn there are more PhysX games out and some a bit populair. A PPU could be the finishing touch to a well balanced up to date gamerig.
 
I don't really want it to fail, but I want it to drop in price.

Reasons being? Right now graphics cards are out of control as far as price goes, and adding another couple hundred to the picture to be able to play games at their best is insane.

Plus, it is something that takes up an extra card slot, and motherboards seem to have less and less slots these days. If you have a sound card, a video card, a RAID card, and wireless NIC you have pretty much filled up a lot of motherboards.

The ideal situation would be GPU makers to integrate some physics processing into their cards to make use of idle pipelines.
 
NulloModo said:
I don't really want it to fail, but I want it to drop in price.

Reasons being? Right now graphics cards are out of control as far as price goes, and adding another couple hundred to the picture to be able to play games at their best is insane.

Plus, it is something that takes up an extra card slot, and motherboards seem to have less and less slots these days. If you have a sound card, a video card, a RAID card, and wireless NIC you have pretty much filled up a lot of motherboards.

The ideal situation would be GPU makers to integrate some physics processing into their cards to make use of idle pipelines.
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Agreed. It would be nice to have on CPU and on GPU integrated hardware Physics :)
 
Chernobyl1 said:
Agreed. It would be nice to have on CPU and on GPU integrated hardware Physics :)
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Lol, what do you think takes care of the physics in today's games?

But using extra pipelines on a GPU would be a good idea. And then, if you wanted to free up those pipelines for maximum graphics performance, you could buy a PPU.
 
HOCP4ME said:
Lol, what do you think takes care of the physics in today's games?

But using extra pipelines on a GPU would be a good idea. And then, if you wanted to free up those pipelines for maximum graphics performance, you could buy a PPU.
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Thats why I said "integrated hardware" so extra silicon can be dedicated to Physics processing.
 
Sure that would be a Budged tendem solution.

Chips have a die-space and a Max TDP.

A ATI R800 with a PPU on die. would mean 1/3 or 1/4 of a chip used for PhysX
While a Dedicated PPU same diespace but 100% same TDP same disschrink.
Have a power of 4 times the onchip solution.

A other option would be.
VerteX shaders
Geometry shaders
Pixel shader
Physics shaders
Option this for mix in a unified solution.
A R800 can get more shaders then pipeline for a more flexible reserve for PhysX use.

Like they did put one day FPU ondie with the CPU the could now make a FPU as large as a total CPU. There is a solution that go this way. A CoProc wich fits in a AMD socket for the Proffesional market.

Dedicated is always more powerfull then budged intergated solution.
For both there is a market.
GPU come as a onboard solution to QuadSLI.

I don't think PPU and GPU will merge. The are direct competition.
GPU will make more physics optimised shaders in the future.
Ageia must intergrate PPU with other task.
PPU and DSP
PPU and NiC
PPU and SataIII Raid
etc

3DFX did merge 2D with 3D. not in cooperation with exciting 2D chip firms.
Ageia must build there own second task a PPU will share Diespace with.
Or take over one. A sound chip firm? Or GPU firm. They are eX 3DFX. so who know 3D expertise already there?
 
HOCP4ME said:
Which brings me back to an idea I had a while ago. Make the GPU and PPU use a commone physics API (probably from Microsoft). If someone doesn't have a PPU in their system, use part of the GPU for physics, at a small expense to graphics performance. But, if they do have a PPU, use it instead, allowing the GPU(s) to be fully dedicated to graphics. Then, a GPU becomes the option for people who don't want to spend $200 but still want to play physics-enabled games. The PPU becomes the option for people who want the best performance possible and are willing to pay for it.
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I'm hoping this will be the route things go, max flexiblity, max gaming experience.

In regards to the PCI/PCI E issues, is the problem with the MB's or the card? What does anyone use the PCI Ex1 slots that started to populate MB's for? Some of the newer MB's coming out are moving away from them it seems (Asus Crosshair comes to mind).
 
I have to admit the physics rendering is impressive. If you go to Ageia's website and watch the videos, it looks pretty amazing. But then again...like it's been said before, there is no killer app.

This doesn't mean I want it to die. It just means that I'll pass on it this PC build. They are partnering with more and more companies, over time the price will be right, and the games will show off the card better.

Unless of course ATI or Nvidia utilize SLI to power a dual GPU / PPU card that can accomplish much what a standalone PPU could do, but also give you the SLI GPU boost...just a thought.
 
Why would anyone wish it to fail?
Think about it, something that improves your gaming.
Any gamer would jump at the chance to improve their gaming, and if more people buy it, the cheaper it becomes.
 
vacanopiernas said:
Why would anyone wish it to fail?
Think about it, something that improves your gaming.
Any gamer would jump at the chance to improve their gaming, and if more people buy it, the cheaper it becomes.
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Cheap"er", sure, but still more than I'm paying now. That = sux. I'm not interested to pay even more money to increase my gaming experience. Now we have word of an AIPU (Artificial Intelligence Processing Unit) coming downstream. Well ain't that a kick in the ass. More money for more hardware so I can play a game. I'm not big on consoles but this kind of stuff is making me research the idea. :(
 
WhyYouLoveMe said:
Cheap"er", sure, but still more than I'm paying now. That = sux. I'm not interested to pay even more money to increase my gaming experience. Now we have word of an AIPU (Artificial Intelligence Processing Unit) coming downstream. Well ain't that a kick in the ass. More money for more hardware so I can play a game. I'm not big on consoles but this kind of stuff is making me research the idea. :(
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If the hype goes up and they sell more, it will become cheaper, in the mean time, support it or something.
 
vacanopiernas said:
If the hype goes up and they sell more, it will become cheaper, in the mean time, support it or something.
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I don't see why I should support it when it may have been a better idea for them to either debut with a less powerful unit or waited until the tech was cheaper to give us a lower barrier of entry. PCI-E would've been great too, but as it stands it's a $250 waste of money and PCI slot.
 
WhyYouLoveMe said:
Cheap"er", sure, but still more than I'm paying now. That = sux. I'm not interested to pay even more money to increase my gaming experience. Now we have word of an AIPU (Artificial Intelligence Processing Unit) coming downstream. Well ain't that a kick in the ass. More money for more hardware so I can play a game. I'm not big on consoles but this kind of stuff is making me research the idea. :(
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It will be for a long time, like years not a requierment and some games will support those CoPU's as a option. More in time wich take even more years. If you don't want to spent much cash on a game Pc, then don't. Most people will not. For most budged is a problem or just don't want to spent much on it.
First the early adopters like me and later people who want a more enhanced game experience and have the budged over for it will addapt. That's small part of gamers the most will not. But the part that go for it grows wenn more games come out wen it become cheaper or a produckt range is avaible.
But for sucses. If the hardcore games halve of them go for it it would be a large sucses If so it will become cheaper and then it still will be a decision to make to spend some money for this enrich game experience..
I allready went for it.

Like some people play games at low detail on 800x 600 other play at high detail at 1600x1200.
It your choice how you will play it.

Consoles the price is in the games and online fee. So in the long run it might be expensive. But it will be not be so obvious. So it hurt less.
 
Chernobyl1 said:
Thats why I said "integrated hardware" so extra silicon can be dedicated to Physics processing.
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Oh, well yes, that would be a good idea. But then again, they tried it with graphics and sound, and look how poor those are compared to seperate cards. If a company would put a full-powered PPU with its own memory on the mobo, I would buy it instead of a standalone PPU. But integrated components usually end up being the budget solution.
 
ultimately id have to pic and choose hardware due to limited space designs. Id love a SFF gaming rig, but right now thats not possible. Although my rig is primarily set up for gaming. In the future id like to get a nicer soundcard, tv tuner etc etc into my rig for all in one. There will be no space for it and id have to give something up if i deemed it a necessity. Thank god sli and ppu arent required for competetion gaming.

as it stands, ppu arent required and cost around 300 msrp. Now imagine if this was the hottest thing of the year and everyone needed it to play all the games that were coming out in coming weeks. Yeah that would piss me off, just another thing in my box to make noise/heat and drain my wallet.
 
strikeout said:
ultimately id have to pic and choose hardware due to limited space designs. Id love a SFF gaming rig, but right now thats not possible. Although my rig is primarily set up for gaming. In the future id like to get a nicer soundcard, tv tuner etc etc into my rig for all in one. There will be no space for it and id have to give something up if i deemed it a necessity. Thank god sli and ppu arent required for competetion gaming.

as it stands, ppu arent required and cost around 300 msrp. Now imagine if this was the hottest thing of the year and everyone needed it to play all the games that were coming out in coming weeks. Yeah that would piss me off, just another thing in my box to make noise/heat and drain my wallet.
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If that happened, the price would come down. Supply and demand is not the issue with the PPU. It's number of sales. Right now, since AGEIA gets so few orders, they must price it high to stay in business.

And I doubt the PPU will ever become required for gaming. If you don't have one, the games will just use part of your GPU for physics. At least that's how it should go if these competing companies can cooperate.
 
ok ill play that game. For arguements sake, lets say the latest game i wanna play is quake wars and a ppu enhances gameplay alot. It makes the game seem much more fluid and appealing to watch while u play. If quake wars doesnt come out yet and i already planned a rig around that game with SLI, X-fi faketality, etc etc. Where the heck am i gonna put it? hell lets say ppus were about to go bust and quake wars saved it, but price has gone done to 50 bucks. Thats a situation i dont want to get it. it would be beneficial to have one but cant simply because motherboard makers and myself didnt plan ahead. I already paid mobo,cards,and case now i gotta sell or return things to accomdate? 50 bucks it not alot when your rig cost 1500 in the big picture. Oh yeah lets not mention the watercooled ppl out there in tight cases like lian li pc-60b
 
Well if Gaming is your thing. You would go at least for a
Full ATX bord. Forget mini/micro ATX.
As a gamer who occasional upgade you keep your options a bit open. Well some do will have a slot problem. Well to bad for them and ageia. They can't please every body with there specific requierments and wish list.

In my case I do want a sound card. But if I must choose between.

Sound
PPU
AIPU

PPU first, AIPU second, sound third. So if to few slot I do Software sound.
Why software sound. No need for 3D sound.

If you want to make a HTPC game capable rig. Same problem. Sound is important there.
7.1 and 3Dsound.

A bit Hardcore Gamer would build a pecific game rig.
And maybe a Spare Rig for other stuff. If you want to do a lot more then games. Like TV tuner. You have to do trade off.
 
in a perfect world, AIW cards would work and nv and ati would integrate physics into their cards at little or no cost to consumers. If they could still sell GT class cards for 299 and gtx for 499 with physics already in there that would be ideal. Then id only have 2 cards one card for all my video needs (maybe 2 now since i got space) and one for all my sound needs.

2 or 3 cards instead of 4 or 5. Less power less heat and less space. Wouldnt it be great to have all this inside an antec lanboy or cent 5 with 4 300+ gig hard drives and raptor. Keep all your games on the raptor and all your media stuff on the others. Put your cable/tv monitor on one dvi plug with hdcp and the other onto your 20in widescreen for gaming. Play games and run tv/record at the same time.

I duno the prospect of torrenting a hd show while i play a little BF2 is very interesting. Then when its done i get to switch over to my TV and listenen to it in nice 5.1 sound powered by my x-fi. When im done its very easy to pack it up for the next LAN and ill have all my stuff for leeching

doing the spare box is fine as i got alot of friends already doing it. Prob is you gotta get new cpu, mb,ram etc. Id much rather sell my old stuff instead of keeping it for box #2 and put the money into 1 main rig thats really solid. PPUs just add another element into the mix and we all know new things in hardware will have bugs/incompatabilities.
 
Bottom Line, for those that dont quite understand... The PPU IS NOT A GPU!!

The PhysX card does NOT handle your graphics, it handles the moveable objects so your GPU doesnt have to, leaving you much more bandwidth on your GPU to handle higher RES graphics.. The PPU takes care of physical movement such as Water, Fire, Hair, Trees(Leaves), Grass, and other objects... Thats where all the fun lays..

Your GPU will still do its job, but running it in tandem with a PPU allows them to do the operations seperately and put less stress on your GPU..

Other note, There is no reason for a PCIE PPU... yet.. the PCI slot provides plenty of bandwidth to handles what it needs to today.. So people need to stop whining about PCIE Cards.. It like trying to put nitrous in a car going down a curvery road.. its just not necessary.. well, unless you wanna die..

But here is some good news... For anyone that would like to try out a PPU, im selling the PhysX card I won at QuakeCon for 200$.. I no longer have a desktop nor have the $$ to put into building another desktop so its just sitting in its box in my closet right now..

The PPU is just laying groundwork for the future of gaming, its not NECESSARY, but ill be damned if it doesnt do its job well, and your gonna see it in a lot of the future Graphics cards from Nvidia/ATI depending on who buys it up first.. Wanting the PPU to fail is just ludicrus because it is pushing the makers of the card into a new technology, dropping the prices on current stuff, and increasing the hardware market for gaming..

(I wish I coulda posted this without bumping the thread cause im tired of seeing the title on the main page :-/ )

-Evil Juggalo
 
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