Why wont Nvidia support Hybrid PhysX?

Stoly

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You're assuming AMD could even pay for it if they wanted to. They're cash poor atm and I doubt Nvidia would even license it to them if they did try to buy rights to it. Doing so would require giving AMD access to low level CUDA technology and software, something Nvidia absolutely does not want to do. AMD already eats their lunch in OpenCL (Nvidia's own fault since it's an artificial handicap) so there's no way in hell Nvidia would give them a way to suddenly be able to run CUDA too. It would put a big dent in their TESLA profits if consumer level cards from the competition suddenly had the ability to suddenly run CUDA code.

Nvidia pitched physx to both intel and AMD, both declined.
 

jinhur

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Why can't you buy a Chevrolet at a Ford dealer?

Look NVidia bought the IP and has worked with it; and is slowly rolling it out.
It's theirs, they own it and they get to do what they want.

If AMD wants to use PhysX, they will need to pay for it.

agreed, by all means, they also just could not be entirely done with it, so why put something out that isnt fully implemented, has potential, but might die on the testing floor because "its douche baggy"
 

Derangel

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Nvidia pitched physx to both intel and AMD, both declined.

Yep. AMD told HardwareCanucks (I believe) that the reason they declined CUDA support was because they didn't want to use something that was proprietary. Given how much of a non-starter OpenCL based physics has been I'd rather AMD suck it up and use CUDA.
 

rgMekanic

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This... plus it takes resources to support any potential new hybrid physx solution anyway to ensure no driver conflicts, compatibility with games, and general development time. Why on Earth would nVidia *GIVE AWAY* one of their more desirable features to the competition? If you want an nVidia feature, buy an nVidia GPU for gaming.


So you want to buy a $50-60 card instead of a $400 card from them, but get the same support & features. I'm sure they'll get right on that :)!

Give away?! I want to buy it! and again, there IS no real issue, if you read my previous post, Nvidia already did it once by accident in a beta driver!

And what difference does it make how much money I spend with nvidia? Are you telling me that people who can't afford a Titan don't deserve the same support and features? Yeah, I want to give them $75 for a dedicated PPU instead of giving them absolutely nothing.

Fuck the people on the Nvidia side are elitist now days.
 

rgMekanic

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The last link there had the OP updated this month.

Edit - Damn thing doesn't work: the forum fubared the link :(

Last post in that thread was from Feb and says ..

No, it stopped working in November 2011, use this "Hybridiz" instead: How To: Fix Hybrid PhysX with latest PhysX and Geforce 285+ [SOLVED!]

Which is the thread I linked :)

Just trying to help peeps out if they want to take the steps to do it
 

GoldenTiger

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Only the stupidest and most gullible fanboy would be able to defend this. Hybrid physx worked, Nvidia went out of their way to disable it, and it's outrageous. Simple as that.

It's a business decision moreso than a technical one. That's already been said a lot of times in this thread.
 

rgMekanic

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It's a business decision moreso than a technical one. That's already been said a lot of times in this thread.

How it is a wise business decision to deny me the ability to purchase one of their products, and expect game devs to use a technology that is limited to only roughly half of PC gamers?
 

GoldenTiger

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Give away?! I want to buy it! and again, there IS no real issue, if you read my previous post, Nvidia already did it once by accident in a beta driver!

Fuck the people on the Nvidia side are elitist now days.

Just because it worked once years ago for some people in a given circumstance doesn't mean it would be working nowadays for everyone, given a zillion newer hardware releases and driver configurations. Not to mention tech support and dev time to officially support it.

It has nothing to do with elitism on my part (and I'm not on "the nvidia side" just because I currently use their GPU for gaming), it's simply business sense on their part.
 

GoldenTiger

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How it is a wise business decision to deny me the ability to purchase one of their products, and expect game devs to use a technology that is limited to only roughly half of PC gamers?

Nearly 2/3 of PC gamers actually, and it's already been explained in this thread in my first post (which you quoted). Nvidia wants unique selling points for their products, and they want you to buy your gaming cards from them, not AMD and then slap in a cheap card of theirs for physX. Just the fact that you want physX shows that it's a selling point.
 

jwcalla

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How it is a wise business decision to deny me the ability to purchase one of their products, and expect game devs to use a technology that is limited to only roughly half of PC gamers?

Getting PC gamers to buy their higher-end GPUs is probably their bread and butter. I can't imagine they have much margin on the 640s, etc.
 

rgMekanic

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Nearly 2/3 of PC gamers actually, and it's already been explained in this thread in my first post (which you quoted). Nvidia wants unique selling points for their products, and they want you to buy your gaming cards from them, not AMD and then slap in a cheap card of theirs for physX. Just the fact that you want physX shows that it's a selling point.

Yes, I thought it would be fun to use in the 1 game of the 8 DX11 titles it supports :rolleyes:
 

Derangel

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Nearly 2/3 of PC gamers actually, and it's already been explained in this thread in my first post (which you quoted). Nvidia wants unique selling points for their products, and they want you to buy your gaming cards from them, not AMD and then slap in a cheap card of theirs for physX. Just the fact that you want physX shows that it's a selling point.

In the short term it is a great business choice, but in the long term it means PhysX will never amount to anything. As cool as Batman's cape is or the particle stuff in various games it is all flash. PhysX has the potential to have a real gameplay impact, but it is not going to happen when the only time you see it is in Nvidia sponsored games. Nvidia is neutering the potential impact of PhysX.
 

cageymaru

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In the short term it is a great business choice, but in the long term it means PhysX will never amount to anything. As cool as Batman's cape is or the particle stuff in various games it is all flash. PhysX has the potential to have a real gameplay impact, but it is not going to happen when the only time you see it is in Nvidia sponsored games. Nvidia is neutering the potential impact of PhysX.

I tried hybrid PhysX for awhile and it was fun to see a few extra particles flying around. Then Nvidia locked the drivers in a way that made me reinstall Win 8 64 to even see my screen after an update. Yes, Nvidia did it on purpose. After that I realized that I never wanted to touch another Nvidia product again.

Also I notice that games that support PhysX look boring as hell without it; examples include Warframe and Borderlands 2. They look uninspired on AMD hardware. Since I'm intelligent to know that the PhysX stuff can easily be replicated using another method or replaced with other effects, I'm starting to subconsciously skip PhysX games as I know they will intentionally look drab to get me buy a Nvidia gpu.

So for me all the situation is doing is make me not purchase their products. I'm just one guy so I know they could give less than a flying fuck, but maybe others are thinking the same.
 

Derangel

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I tried hybrid PhysX for awhile and it was fun to see a few extra particles flying around. Then Nvidia locked the drivers in a way that made me reinstall Win 8 64 to even see my screen after an update. Yes, Nvidia did it on purpose. After that I realized that I never wanted to touch another Nvidia product again.

Also I notice that games that support PhysX look boring as hell without it; examples include Warframe and Borderlands 2. They look uninspired on AMD hardware. Since I'm intelligent to know that the PhysX stuff can easily be replicated using another method or replaced with other effects, I'm starting to subconsciously skip PhysX games as I know they will intentionally look drab to get me buy a Nvidia gpu.

So for me all the situation is doing is make me not purchase their products. I'm just one guy so I know they could give less than a flying fuck, but maybe others are thinking the same.

I think Borderlands 2 looks worse with PhysX. A lot worse in fact. The best PhysX games I've played are the Batman ones. Even in those I consider the effects neat, but nothing game changing or required. To me PhysX is little more than a neat gimmick, not something to buy or avoid a game based on. A good game is good with or without pretty dust particles.
 

GoldenTiger

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In the short term it is a great business choice, but in the long term it means PhysX will never amount to anything. As cool as Batman's cape is or the particle stuff in various games it is all flash. PhysX has the potential to have a real gameplay impact, but it is not going to happen when the only time you see it is in Nvidia sponsored games. Nvidia is neutering the potential impact of PhysX.

They've offered to license it to AMD... but AMD declined. There's not much more they can do there without costing themselves.
 

wabbitseason

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Heeeere comes GOLDEN TIGER, swooping in to rescue Nvidia from unwarranted badmouthing on our forum.
 

rgMekanic

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They've offered to license it to AMD... but AMD declined. There's not much more they can do there without costing themselves.

1st, how much did Nvidia want to charge AMD for this privilege?

2nd, what do you mean how much more can they do? Uhm, all they have to do is unblock PhysX on an nvidia card when an amd card is present, it really is as simple as deleting a line of code in the drivers.
 

Derangel

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1st, how much did Nvidia want to charge AMD for this privilege?

2nd, what do you mean how much more can they do? Uhm, all they have to do is unblock PhysX on an nvidia card when an amd card is present, it really is as simple as deleting a line of code in the drivers.

Neither Nvidia or AMD is saying what the terms of the deal were. All AMD said was that they declined in favor of supporting OpenCL and other open standards. Back when Havok was actually going to release GPGPU based physics.
 

cannondale06

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Thought they were adding PhysX to the Xbox One? If so then it'll run on AMD, maybe that'll translate to it working on the PC.
they already have that now as physx is the physics engine in many games. the consoles will not have hardware accelerated physx as that would require an nvidia gpu.

personally I still think hardware physx is unoptimized poo. except for the interactive smoke/fog effects, its basically just the same old gimmicky tech demo crap we have had for years. I get so tired of seeing the same silly unrealistic chunks fly around. also Nvidia would have you believe that some effects would not be possible without hardware physx which is a joke. we can have cloth physics, trees blowing and sparks all without hardware level physx.
 
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x3sphere

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I know right? These guys don't get the obvious. If NVIDIA enabled PhysX support with AMD cards as the master card, then people would just get a 7970 and run a cheap NVIDIA card for the PhysX features and NVIDIA would lose out on premium card sales. So common sense dictates that they do not support such a setup and instead if people want PhysX, they buy NVIDIA only. In this case, if you want PhysX on a top end card, you buy a 780/Titan instead.

I don't agree. More options = good for consumer. PhysX alone certainly wouldn't sway me to buy an NV card. I've gone back and forth many times, and while on the AMD side I don't miss PhysX.

If they opened up this ability though I may get a NV card to use for PhysX all the time, so they'd be making more money from me...
 

GoldenTiger

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1st, how much did Nvidia want to charge AMD for this privilege?

2nd, what do you mean how much more can they do? Uhm, all they have to do is unblock PhysX on an nvidia card when an amd card is present, it really is as simple as deleting a line of code in the drivers.

1st, who knows, but it's a product feature that would cost them support-wise and marketing-wise. Why would they give it away?

2nd, I wish software development were so simple ;).

He's referring to your obvious bias towards nVidia products, regardless of their actions.

That's funny, but not true. You seem unable to tell though through your AMD goggles though.
 

Mr Mean

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I was thinking about doing hybrid PhysX with my new 7970, but the steps seem like a bit of a PITA for such few games that use it.

But it brought about a question, why wont Nvidia just directly support it? They would make more money as ATI fans like myself would buy an Nvidia card for a dedicated PPU, and we all know how much Nvidia likes making money.

Just seems dumb to me when Nvidia could say "Okay, buy your ATI card, but you'll still have to come to us for a PPU" instead of saying "No PhysX for you!"

or even better if they released a dedicated PPU that was worth a damn.

Just a thought/rant to get everyone PhysX and let Nvidia make more money.

~Rich

You can't be mad at the them for maximizing their profits. Why settle for one video card profit while you can make 2X by forcing them to buy a dedicated video card and a dedicated PhysX card?

What you're saying is very practical but not practical for a company that has to maximize profits :)
 

atrance5

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1st, how much did Nvidia want to charge AMD for this privilege?

2nd, what do you mean how much more can they do? Uhm, all they have to do is unblock PhysX on an nvidia card when an amd card is present, it really is as simple as deleting a line of code in the drivers.

Nobody on this forum will have the slightest clue how much they would have "charged" them.

This issue came up several years ago. They removed the feature and that's how it is. They are a billion dollar business, and they want money, pools of money.
 

That's_Corporate

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That's funny, but not true. You seem unable to tell though through your AMD goggles though.

Of course you have to label me as such - it's the only way to defend yourself. But the things I say regarding either GPU maker is based on logic, your comments usually are not.
 

stealthy123

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physX is gimmicky and looks unnatural anyways.

I know there are people out there who think it's a selling point for team green, but to me it's just like tressFX, silly for the sake of silly.
 

Mr Mean

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physX is gimmicky and looks unnatural anyways.

I know there are people out there who think it's a selling point for team green, but to me it's just like tressFX, silly for the sake of silly.

While I agree to most of it. There are some games where PhysX does "fog" very well. I think that's the only time I really enjoyed it :)
 
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