Think your playing the wrong FFXI. Ballista anyone?
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Why the burning crusade has destroyed WoW
- Thread starter gsdg_gdsg
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Think your playing the wrong FFXI. Ballista anyone?
NKDietrich
Supreme [H]ardness
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I hardly think WoW is "destroyed." Wild exaggerations anyone? I quit WoW quite a while ago, but it was because I got tired of incompetent guilds that couldn't get shit done. They would do extremely well for a month or two, then get cockblocked by some easy boss for another month. Then several frustrated players quit, so our attendance was down and we went backwards in progression. Once that happens your guild is over.
Three guilds broke up on me in one year, so I was done. Its just too hard to find quality guilds and players in a game like WoW that is so easy, and unless you're a certain high-demand class, you aren't getting into the good ones.
Three guilds broke up on me in one year, so I was done. Its just too hard to find quality guilds and players in a game like WoW that is so easy, and unless you're a certain high-demand class, you aren't getting into the good ones.
This is why I only do instances with my friends or guildies. Which means I've done a total of 5 ever.
It doesn't help that WoW players use more acronyms than the military. GOG and roll for BOP. Huh?
I'm the definition of a casual player. Saturday nights I'll play for 8 hours or so, but the rest of the time it's maybe 6 hours a week. And I spend most of that soloing. I did one instance with 4 other guildies and people kept going AFK to feed kids, answer the phone, etc... I have no idea how you harder core people do 40 man groups.
It sounds like I need to look you up when I get online then!!!!
RESTfulADI
2[H]4U
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You can't compare 5 man pug bullshit to a good raiding guild. We didnt put up with carebear bullshit. You were at the door 15 minutes before raid invites fully prepared or you didnt get invited. You dont listen to directions or wipe the raid, or you go AFK all the time making every one wait, you get benched. You dont keep your gear fully enchanted/gemmed, or you suck on the meters or WWS, or you have a retarded spec, you dont get to raid (if you keep this up you get kicked). You bitch all the time, start drama, or go emo for whatever reason, bye bye. Once everyone understands this (and you will have to kick a few who will never understand) and pulls their own weight and the machine starts firing on all cylinders things go surprisingly smooth. 25/40 experienced and geared raiders can clear as much content in one raid as most guilds couldnt in a whole week. Its really no different than a company, you can't just do whatever you want and waste other people's time or the ship doesn't move.
MemoryInAGarden
2[H]4U
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It's hardly destroyed, but I certainly think meaningful PVP is virtually gone and raiding has its issues.
We haven't had any new BGs since TBC came out. Even then, EotS is just a direct mishmash of AB and WSG. Honor gain is slow, the rewards just aren't viable for anything but PVP, and the quality of the average game has deteriorated. You're playing cross-realm in an impersonal environment and you're fighting the honor gain counter more than other people. I can't even begin to say how bad the average PUG game is, from the quality of gear people have to player skill. It's just atrocious and no longer worth playing.
But you have to be a zombie and stay in the BGs for several DAYS /played just to get the gear to be competitive in LOW END arenas. Assuming you get 1k honor/hr, it would take over four days played to get the neck/bracers/belt/two rings/trinkets. And those are just the pieces that aren't available in the arena. If you're starting out, you have to get the old season 1 arena gear via honor to have be able to get a decent amount of arena points to buy the current arena gear. The only way battlegrounds are even remotely tolerable is in a premade group. Even then, it's a shoddy system that needs a total overhaul.
Whereas the BGs are just a forgotten stepchild that you have to spend hundreds of hours in to simply be arena-viable, the arenas are the fortunate son of post TBC PVP. But I only arena two hours maximum on Sunday afternoon. While it's fun for a few matches a week, it's certainly not enjoyable every day. The honor gear is designed to augment your main arena gear, but you have to spend far more time with the honor system than the arena system to get a reward. The system works exactly opposite as intended.
Raiding is still basically the same as it was pre-TBC, but fewer people seem to be doing even the entry level content. I was one of the first 70 healing priests on my server, cleared Kara by mid-March, and progressed into poorly tuned tier 5 content. An uncountable number of guilds have broken under the awkward 10 to 25 man raid transition; I was personally in at least five that have. It looks like I'm FINALLY going to get into BT/Hyjal this month, hopefully before the attunements are lifted. I've waffled back and forth between raider and casual, and while I thoroughly enjoy raiding, sometimes I wonder if it's not a partially broken mechanic that is based more on the luck of guild stability than individual or team skill.
We haven't had any new BGs since TBC came out. Even then, EotS is just a direct mishmash of AB and WSG. Honor gain is slow, the rewards just aren't viable for anything but PVP, and the quality of the average game has deteriorated. You're playing cross-realm in an impersonal environment and you're fighting the honor gain counter more than other people. I can't even begin to say how bad the average PUG game is, from the quality of gear people have to player skill. It's just atrocious and no longer worth playing.
But you have to be a zombie and stay in the BGs for several DAYS /played just to get the gear to be competitive in LOW END arenas. Assuming you get 1k honor/hr, it would take over four days played to get the neck/bracers/belt/two rings/trinkets. And those are just the pieces that aren't available in the arena. If you're starting out, you have to get the old season 1 arena gear via honor to have be able to get a decent amount of arena points to buy the current arena gear. The only way battlegrounds are even remotely tolerable is in a premade group. Even then, it's a shoddy system that needs a total overhaul.
Whereas the BGs are just a forgotten stepchild that you have to spend hundreds of hours in to simply be arena-viable, the arenas are the fortunate son of post TBC PVP. But I only arena two hours maximum on Sunday afternoon. While it's fun for a few matches a week, it's certainly not enjoyable every day. The honor gear is designed to augment your main arena gear, but you have to spend far more time with the honor system than the arena system to get a reward. The system works exactly opposite as intended.
Raiding is still basically the same as it was pre-TBC, but fewer people seem to be doing even the entry level content. I was one of the first 70 healing priests on my server, cleared Kara by mid-March, and progressed into poorly tuned tier 5 content. An uncountable number of guilds have broken under the awkward 10 to 25 man raid transition; I was personally in at least five that have. It looks like I'm FINALLY going to get into BT/Hyjal this month, hopefully before the attunements are lifted. I've waffled back and forth between raider and casual, and while I thoroughly enjoy raiding, sometimes I wonder if it's not a partially broken mechanic that is based more on the luck of guild stability than individual or team skill.
PornoSatan
2[H]4U
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It rewards those who are most dedicated and willing to do it day in and day out. Individual and team skill can be taught, assuming there's enough time. Anyone can be good at the game, but if they don't ever have time or the will to raid then their skill doesn't really matter.
Try LOTRO. One of the reasons I stopped playing wow is because I enjoy great PVE enviroments with some PVP additions, I hate deserts.
MemoryInAGarden
2[H]4U
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Skill is learned in time, but most guilds, especially ones beyond elementary content, aren't going to teach someone basic mechanics. The most significant early coordination and idiot check, Magtheridon, has become a vacant raid zone and hardly anyone attempts him. Magtheridon is by far harder than anything before him and after him in tier 5 content except for Kael and Vashj. But since people can essentially never do Mag and not suffer, they don't learn the nuts and bolts of TBC raiding early enough. When they get to the really hard stuff, guilds crumble.
One dipshit not kiting properly on one of the Kael adds, burning the wrong weapon, someone mishealing, not fear warding, not picking up the weapon, etc, can and likely will wipe the raid. While nothing about any of this is difficult, getting someone who can do their job and not mistakes is difficult. Attention span is something that can't be taught.
RESTfulADI
2[H]4U
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The logistics of keeping a raiding guild going are a lot harder than the gameplay itself. Like the previous poster said, no fight is really that hard individually once you watch the video or read the strat lol, but keeping 25 people together with the right classes, gear, and all the other shit, is really hard. Which is why most guilds break up.
I quit WoW right after TBC came out. It was a fun game for a bit, but it felt like there was a lack of depth to it and the expansion did not seem to address anything I wanted. But maybe I am crazy since dogbyte_13's comment on rare spawns from EQ1 made me all warm and fuzzy.
Guilds that break up because they fail at raiding are not really guilds IMHO. The guild i am in has been on my server since the game came out. We've had people come, and people go. But most have either come back or quit playing. It's part of the social aspect of the game.
Guild is about people, not raiding. Unless it's a hardcore raiding guild, and those never seem to last.
Except that no one actually does Ballista. 95% of the "matches" never start because of a lack of interest. The PvP in FFXI is at most something done between friends when they are extremely bored. FFXI is far and large a PvE game. Which is what I'd rather play.
Canadian in Berlin
Gawd
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I've been in 4 guilds since Asherons Call. Started in Asherons Call... we moved to DAoC, I didn't like hibernia, moved to midgard with a few other friends from there. Joined a different guild, played again on hibernia in a former alliance guild from years ago when I first played there....
Played with both of those in WoW. And will play with both of those in Age of Conan/Warhammer Online.
I don't play with them for raids and crap, i play with them because they are my friends. Thats why makes these games fun.
darkone238
n00b
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I miss the days when epic gear looked epic. Now it's all like recolored T0 and boring looking weapons. I miss some of the items that dropped out of the old raids 
Sounds more like a military exercise than a game.
When I was in my early 20's, I was that hardcore enough (on MUDs)... but there's no way I'd be able to do that now. I need to work on my car project. And fix the toilet. And go to work...
Ocellaris
Fully [H]
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Welfare epics will be what causes a lot of people to leave, right now there is just too much epic loot at 70 and too many ways to get it with little effort. Blizzard is creating a system where people get rewarded for doing less and less with every patch. Its replacing people's sense of accomplishment with free handouts. After enough of this, casuals just stop caring, and hardcore raiders just give up because everytime a patch comes out, anyone and their brother can get gear similar to theirs. Blizzard really need to get Wrath out the door ASAP to break the current loot situation.
I'm Pelvis on Garithos(sp?) usually getting PK'd by Allies, or Darksynapsis on Eldre'Thalas. 23 Rogue and 62 Warlock respectively.
Yes, I don't have a 70 yet. I'm a noob.
RESTfulADI
2[H]4U
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Yea it's pretty crazy, but it just comes with the territory of high-end WoW raiding. I enjoyed it for a few months but then got burned out. Granted, at the time my only responsibilities were class, and GF time. Most people can't keep up with that kind of commitment to a game, which is why there is so much turnover and guilds are constantly recruiting no matter how good they are.
That's how I like to play. I felt as if I could not do that in WoW, I really hate letting my group down. Decided to give LOTRO a go and BINGO, we have a winner.
That's how I like to play. I felt as if I could not do that in WoW, I really hate letting my group down. Decided to give LOTRO a go and BINGO, we have a winner.
So LOTRO is a bit more on-the-fly playable than WoW?
WTS T6 enh shaman, Serious offers =D
WoW ran it's course for me the second I killed illy and that I only had 1 piece of t6... I showed up for raids then as of last week... I found that playing the drinking booze game alot more fun. Now that I am almost completely decked in the best gear. I really don't see playing this anymore fun anymore. Even I was first trying to kill Kael'thas I was getting bored. Finding out that I am missing a lot of great games cause of wow.
BTW account has 67 rogue on it too ^^
WoW ran it's course for me the second I killed illy and that I only had 1 piece of t6... I showed up for raids then as of last week... I found that playing the drinking booze game alot more fun. Now that I am almost completely decked in the best gear. I really don't see playing this anymore fun anymore. Even I was first trying to kill Kael'thas I was getting bored. Finding out that I am missing a lot of great games cause of wow.
BTW account has 67 rogue on it too ^^
Pretty much true, I used to handle the recruiting for our guild (I quit about 7-8 months ago) and it pretty much got to the point where you either had the time to invest in all the prep work, raiding, and misc activities or you didn't. Playing wow at the high-end level was a HUGE timesink. You're talking about rep grinds, farming for gold/consumables, and 4-5 hrs of raiding nightly. I was in a top ranked guild, so we're talking about a almost 7 day raid schedule for new encounters just to get a world first (or at least US first).
From what I've heard from people still playing, the game has gotten to the point where epics are basically spoon-fed to you and all the hard work that the hardcore crowd put in has been negated by Bliz trying to make the game more casual friendly (not that it's totally a bad thing).
To be honest this is exactly why I am glad wow exisits and exactly why I play a diffrent MMO.
Astral Abyss
2[H]4U
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I play WoW to hang out with friends and have fun. I'm also in a semi-decent raiding guild doing Kara/Gruuls/ZA and starting SSC and The Eye.
Blizzard has planned obsolence of gear. That's a known. It's always been that way, maybe some of you just don't remember or chose to forget. All you elitist's "fond memories" of ZG, MC, BWL, etc, need to understand that everything you got there was making something else obsolete before those dungeons existed. Just like TBC made your uber gear obsolete.
I spend a lot of time doing arenas and gathering Season 3 arena gear on my 2 level 70s. I'm sure not going to bitch about it when the next set comes out. I'll just enjoy it while it lasts.
It comes down to this. Everyone bitching that the game changes over time and gear improves and that all their time was wasted are the same people who would bitch that the game was boring and stagnant if new content wasn't released with... ding, ding... new, better gear...
It reminds me of Magic The Gathering and all the people with their Black Lotus and Time Warp cards and other overpowered cards who could beat anyone that didn't have them just because they started playing the game before other people and there was no real way to get those cards later on. Then, when Wizards ofThe Coast came out with newer cards and rules making those cards no longer usable, guess who bitches the loudest? Yep, the elitists who had a lock on winning. Boo fucking hoo.
MMOs evolve. Deal with it... or quit and move on. No one will miss you.
Blizzard has planned obsolence of gear. That's a known. It's always been that way, maybe some of you just don't remember or chose to forget. All you elitist's "fond memories" of ZG, MC, BWL, etc, need to understand that everything you got there was making something else obsolete before those dungeons existed. Just like TBC made your uber gear obsolete.
I spend a lot of time doing arenas and gathering Season 3 arena gear on my 2 level 70s. I'm sure not going to bitch about it when the next set comes out. I'll just enjoy it while it lasts.
It comes down to this. Everyone bitching that the game changes over time and gear improves and that all their time was wasted are the same people who would bitch that the game was boring and stagnant if new content wasn't released with... ding, ding... new, better gear...
It reminds me of Magic The Gathering and all the people with their Black Lotus and Time Warp cards and other overpowered cards who could beat anyone that didn't have them just because they started playing the game before other people and there was no real way to get those cards later on. Then, when Wizards ofThe Coast came out with newer cards and rules making those cards no longer usable, guess who bitches the loudest? Yep, the elitists who had a lock on winning. Boo fucking hoo.
MMOs evolve. Deal with it... or quit and move on. No one will miss you.
That's the problem. Not all MMOs make the old gear completly obsolete after just 6 months or 12 months. FFXI a Haubergeon+1 is still a top tier body piece. The relic weapons that came out in 04 and were ultra exclusive are still ultra exclusive. MMOs don't have to destroy your work every 12 months. Somehow (and I really wish I knew how) WoW has managed to trick people into thinking that is acceptable. Hell the idea of taking 12-24 months to obtain a weapon would probably go zomg thats waaay to long. I guess it's just back to the "gotta have it now" mentality that surrounds WoW.
Good thing about Magic is that rules allowed those who bitched to have a format to use their overpowered cards. I remember some people with the idea of creating WoW Classic servers, but it was quickly dismissed by a blue on the WoW forums. Meh, I do like Azeroth more than the Outlands, so I'm really waiting on WOTLK :0
Well, I re-activated my WoW to play with a buddy and just hate it. LOTRO is alot friendlier.For one it looks great, then there are a ton of quests to do in every area, so yes, it is on the fly. As far as instances go, epic quests are instances for the most part, those could take up to an hour usually.
To me, even if I was playing a bit more hardcore, LOTRO has to be a better game. I simply have more fun in it. The thing that I do like more about WoW is it's arena play, having a 2v2 team is great. Plus I guess there is more to do once you hit the top level.
LOTRO has a trial, check it out. If anything else you will get to see how great the game looks. It is really hard to for me enjoy wow now tbh, I prefer LOTRO classes, LOTRO graphics, LOTRO gameplay, LOTRO items and weps. I guess it is a better game to me.
FlyinBrian
Gawd
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I disagree with You Op, Sitting on my butt 12 hours a day to get the elite gear in a all day/night raid isnt fun. What you forgot to mention is games are supposed to be fun and the only people who ever got anywhere in those old MMO's are the so called Elite, which I guess means someone who had no social life outside of video games at all.
I like being able to play, have some fun and then log off. Look at Wows subscription base, some critisize the game is too easy and what not but MMO's were never about skill anyway. They are about social interaction within a rpg enviroment. The game is successful because it is generally easy to play and appeals to a lot of people because it has found that long lost special ingredient and that is fun.
I like being able to play, have some fun and then log off. Look at Wows subscription base, some critisize the game is too easy and what not but MMO's were never about skill anyway. They are about social interaction within a rpg enviroment. The game is successful because it is generally easy to play and appeals to a lot of people because it has found that long lost special ingredient and that is fun.
True, that is how I always feel when I play WoW. I log on, it's pretty fun usually, but after awhile it becomes a chore. Then you see hours upon hours roll by as I try to catch up to a buddy or complete this next dungeon. I think that is why I am moving on, I like to be able to do few quests, log off and then come back, still being where I was.
For me, I just found as the months progressed by from TBC release the world on my server (Khaz Modan) just seemed to get sparser and sparser. Loads of folks would just be camped out in the cities (Org and Shat mostly) waiting for BG's/Arena to pop. Hardly anyone really runs instances anymore, most folks just PVP or play alts between raids.
I'd been thinking about returning to WoW whenever WoTLK shows up (WoW-free for 3 months now), but the more i think about it, the less I want to.
I'd been thinking about returning to WoW whenever WoTLK shows up (WoW-free for 3 months now), but the more i think about it, the less I want to.
Man i remember raiding in EQ1. Pre Kunark yea, you would never gear, even in the planes, the planar armor was small upgrades except for leggings and chest peice (which were RARE AS HELL!!). Come Kunark, work on a VP key, you could get 3-4 exceptionally nice peices of gear in one clear, on bad days you could come out with at least 1 almost all the time, infact I think the spreading of gear was great until Luclin came out. In Luclin as a cleric I was getting about 5-6 items per week that were huge upgrades to my prior gear (that is until the nerf to Flowing Thought items).
It was never instanced until the quazy plane of time instance they put into POP, but when they placed in instancing it killed off all aspects of rivalry and competition, the game became boring, I hate instancing and think its a horrible way to "protect" content from others.
Ocellaris
Fully [H]
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Some good points in there, however what Blizzard is doing now is they keep shrinking the timeframe before they obsolete your gear with more, easy to get, L70 gear. Its not like people doing newer and harder content are the ones getting the better gear, its people that barely put in any time getting gear equal to what people spend ~40+ hours a week to get, 3 months later. Its getting to the point where people that play a few hours here and there have gear competitive with hardcore raiders, so its just normalizing everything. Thats the problem, they are not adding in a lot of new content and obsoleting gear that way, what they are doing is adding in better ways and new ways for people to get it while doing OLD content. They just keep shoveling new gear out at a much faster rate than they are releasing new content.
MemoryInAGarden
2[H]4U
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This. I'm in a guild that will probably bring Kael down on Monday and will get into Hyjal/BT within the next two weeks. Patch 2.4 will likely be live in a month or so and lift those attunements. In addition, the CURRENT badge loot is itemized better for holy priests than an equivalent drop in tier 5 content. The next round of badge loot is going to be FAR superior to most things in T5, aside from some Vashj/Kael drops for healing priests. Some of that stuff I wouldn't replace until the end of BT/Hyjal. Even then, I may not replace the T6 stuff depending on how well the badge loot is itemized. The current badge loot should have come out in 2.4. Instead of being one tier behind high-end raiding, badges should be two tiers behind. This gives casuals an opportunity to get very decent gear without screwing raiders.
You know the situation is screwed up when most of my guild has been done with Kara gear for a few months, but we're STILL in Badgazhan to prepare for 2.4. An MMO has no reason to exist without a chase.
QFT! Selling your account to someone saves them a month+ of effort and only costs them an extra weekend of overtime to make it happen. You win, they win, it's all good!
I sold my fully decked out account in October for $500, and the guy offered it back to me for free about 3 weeks ago because he's going on maneuvers in the desert for a year or so. I think he just wants me to keep the account warmed up while he's gone.... heh.
I decided I won't reactivate the account, but it'd be fun to jump back in and try owning in PvP. The character still has about 80% of the gear I used before I sold the account, so I must've been doing something right. I learned on my first character, don't do this. I started hating the game. So I just stepped back, and took it on my own pace. Now I'm 2 levels ahead on one character, and 5 on another. But I'm going on a trip tomorrow so I'll be behind soon enough.
The constant grinding and repetitive quests do get boring, so I decided to do something different. Hunt players on PVP servers. I get that little rush like I used to do playing UT2004 deathmatches. But is there a way to communicate across sides? I like to give props after a fun battle.
Pelvis is up to lvl 26 since my last post. w00t
conchimdada
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2004
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- 494
I agree, before the expansion hit i was one addicted mofo to this game. Part of me is glad the they released the expansion, this game was way to adicting