Why Sweden Is Shifting To A 6-Hour Workday

[daglesj]

The only reason a socialist is doing so well is because of all the ignorant morons who never learned history and how socialism ultimately leads to economic failure.

Look at Europe. They are doing just peachy on the brink of catastrophic bankruptcy.

Once again you are confusing 'Socialism' with 'Communism'.

A little bit of socialism doesn't hurt in a modern civilised society. It's one of the things that helps stop people just dying in the gutter and such.

You are giving into fears fed to you from ultra rich people that really don't give a damn about you. They just want to make it easier for them to pay you less and work you harder and toss you aside when you can't do it anymore.

 

[daglesj]

No, it's not fallacy, it's largely true.

They also tend to make poor choices, like dropping out of school, smoking, doing drugs, having kids they can't afford to support, etc.


The secret to success really isn't that difficult, it just requires a lot of hard work, and delayed gratification.
Graduate from school, get a job and work hard, wait to get married until you can afford it, wait to have kids, stay married.

Once again you've bought into the fallacy of the 'American Dream', pushed by the likes of the top business people, that by working your ass off you'll make it to the ranks of the 1% etc. etc. You'll get there! Just keep working those 20 hour days!

Well 80% of the 1%, those very people that tell you to work your ass off, actually INHERITED their wealth and didn't do anything to work for it. They are liars.

But keep on believing if it helps you.

 

[daglesj]

Oh and in this day and age it's not about 'working harder'...it's about 'working smarter'.

I've seen plenty people work their asses off and not deliver a single productive thing. It happens a lot. It's not how much work you do, it's what you DELIVER. If a person can deliver the same end result with half the time and effort he'll get the job. I don't care if he/she sneaks off at 1pm for the rest of the day. They will deliver.

If you have to work those hours then have you ever asked that something might just be wrong there? Maybe it's not right? I've always been suspicious of people that have to sit late at the office. Why aren't they getting the work done in the normal work hours? Questions should be raised.

 

[Skripka]

I'm a salaried engineer in a big bad US corporation. I work 9 hour days with every other Friday (plus weekends, obviously) off. If my boss catches me (or anyone else) beyond 9 hours, he will kick us out. There ARE some companies that give a shit about work/life balance.

Most don't. You ended up fortunate

Last boss decided to axe positions to save $$. Result was lots of the staff went from having one 40hour/week job to 3 or 4 while not being paid anymore..

FYI, there are economical requirements to join the EU. Places like Greece lied about it and hid their finances in a variety of different ways.

Thank Wall Street's inspirational con artists.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/07/greece-crisis-banks-greedy/398603/

 

[daglesj]

At the last big company I worked for, the unwritten rule was "as long as the work gets done and no one is complaining, then work just the hours you need to work!"

A lot of us ended up working 10am till 4pm. Worked pretty well.

 

[Ashbringer]

Leave him be. Zara is your typical American beta male.

But no that is a sad existence. People need free time for themselves and 12 hour work days is just enough to sleep and drive to work. You might as well not own a home, just get a mobile home and save yourself the commute.

 

[M'ichal]

Hell yeah!

US is messed up, I just recently found out you guys only get 3 months of maternity leave?! sheesh!

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

You determined it to be a sad existence just based on that?

Sounds like someone is jealous cause he can't get anything other than a blow up doll.

Seems to me the only joke around here is you. Fatty.

Leave him be. Zara is your typical American beta male.

Let's set aside - for a moment - that the term "alpha male" is really just code word for arrogant insufferable douchebag, and focus on the merits here. You probably use the term to talk about someone being more "manly" or some stupid shit like that.

There is nothing manly about working ridiculously long hours. If you are working 12 hours a day, there are one of a few things going on.

1.) You are non-salaried, and feel the need to work 12 hour days just to make ends meet. This is very sad, if true.

2.) You are salaried, but have more worked dumped on you than can ever be done in 40 hours, and feel forced to work long hours, because you fear being fired if you don't, or you don't think that finding another job that doesn't abuse you is an option. This - if true - is sad as well.

3.) You are so insecure in your own identity that you totally identify with your job, and put everything into it. This is pretty sad too. If you have an option, don't kill yourself working. Get a hobby, spend time with friends and family, work on your car/build a computer/go to the beach, or whatever you are interested in. If all you are interested in is work, then this is sad.

While there is intrinsic value in the character associated with delaying gratification, getting your education done, keeping a job, etc, there is no intrinsic value in overworking yourself. It doesn't make you more respectable, more of a man, or anything like that. It just makes you a sad human being, killing yourself at work so the shareholders stock might move a hundredth of a point.

I'm lucky. I'm well educated, and have 10+ years of experience in a very desirable field. I have 5-10 recruiters emailing and calling me every day. While the recruiters get annoying, the lucky part here is that I don't have to put up with shit at work. If I'm unhappy, I go somewhere else. I know most people don't have this freedom, and I feel badly for them, as it allows them to be abused, in the ways mentioned above.

I've definitely been in positions where I've been overworked in the past. This one job I had I was working 12 hours a day 7 days a week. I stayed there until I got done what I said I was going to get done, (approximately 8 months) and then I left. I wasn't going to put up with that any more than I had to.

As far as my physical shape goes, it really is none of your business, but... About a year and a half ago I was 189lb at 6'3", benching just north of 200lb, with negligible body fat, and the resting pulse of an Olympic athlete. I got tired of spending the 3 hours 4-5 days a week in the gym though. I'm not in as great shape anymore, but I'm still OK. I run and walk a lot, and I have a ton more time to do the things in life I love doing, like spending time with my fiance, playing baseball with my future stepson, and my computer hobby.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Hell yeah!

US is messed up, I just recently found out you guys only get 3 months of maternity leave?! sheesh!

There is no legal maternity/paternity leave in the U.S.

In the U.S. if you have children, you are on your own.

Some companies take it upon themselves to offer some limited paid maternity leave, but it is very rare. Usually if you are a working woman having a child, you have to use your vacation time (typically 2-3 weeks a year), and then have to choose to either drop out of the work force, or leave your 3 week old with their parents or some sort of daycare service, which are not subsidized and cost a bloody fortune here. $11,000 per year per child is about the average for daycare, but it can cost as much as $20,000 per year per child, depending on where you live.

It's a miracle we have the birth rate we do, considering how much easier they make it to have a family in Europe.

 

[daglesj]

[QUOTE='Zarathustra[H]
I have 5-10 recruiters emailing and calling me every day. While the recruiters get annoying, the lucky part here is that I don't have to put up with shit at work.[/QUOTE]

I find that funny when people say this as a badge of pride or importance.

A LOT of recruiters call a LOT of people all the time because employers are shitty and people keep leaving.

It doesn't mean you are good or special. They just want another body in a vacant space ASAP. They will call anyone they have a listing for.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

I find that funny when people say this as a badge of pride or importance.

A LOT of recruiters call a LOT of people all the time because employers are shitty and people keep leaving.

It doesn't mean you are good or special. They just want another body in a vacant space ASAP. They will call anyone they have a listing for.

It's not a badge of honor at all. If anything, it has more to do with me being lucky, and randomly falling into a field where there is a shortage of people with experience,.It does mean that I can find a replacement job if I need one. It gives me the freedom to say "I'm out" if my employer starts being abusive.

 

[daglesj]

It's not a badge of honor at all. If anything, it has more to do with me being lucky, and randomly falling into a field where there is a shortage of people with experience,.It does mean that I can find a replacement job if I need one. It gives me the freedom to say "I'm out" if my employer starts being abusive.

Yeah straight into another shitty job left by the previous guy who "didn't want to take any shit!"

The grass is always greener...

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Yeah straight into another shitty job left by the previous guy who "didn't want to take any shit!"

The grass is always greener...

Well, every time you switch jobs, the employer incurs costs to get you up to speed, train you on their infrastructure/products/etc. Not to mention the recruiter fees they pay, IT consts involved in setting up new accounts/hardware, etc. etc.

It is very much in companies self interest to keep employees who have the option to leave. It's the ones who don't have the option to leave, who are more easily abused.

I credit the fact that I am lucky enough to have the option to leave, with the fact that in my career, I've only worked for one REALLY terrible company (the 12/7 job, mentioned above) and one other smaller company which pressured me with the work load,but it rarely turned out to be more than an extra hour or so a day. Everywhere else, including my current position, they are pretty OK.

That's not to say that I don't put in the extra hours when needed during crunch times, but I also expect that in exchange I'll have the flexibility to leave early when I need to go to the doctor, have an appointment to get my car serviced, or other life things happen.

 

[daglesj]

Yeah life throws up interesting choices at times. We all have coulda woulda shoulda moments.

 

[Demon10000]

I say scrap the 6 hour days and switch to a 9 day week where we get 4 day weekends.

 

[TwistedAegis]

I know plenty of people who would love to work a 6 hour day for 5 days a week here in the US.

However, with this "robust" /s recovery, they cannot even find a full time job to work 8 hours a day.

So much ignorance in this thread. Just like most threads...

So a 6 hour mandated work week would actually help those people you know, as it would require more bodies to fulfill the same number of hours.

I largely agree outside the get married part. Marriage does a lot of things, helping you build wealth isn't one of them.

Married people tend to be wealthier. Perhaps it is simply a bias for wealthy people to get married, or perhaps marriage does lead to more wealth; hard to measure that causation.


The US workforce largely stopped being paid for better productivity since 1970, which is why wages have stagnated since then. So now the only way to make more money is work longer hours - except now lower and lower positions are salaried.

I'd like to see a 6-hour workweek, remove welfare/foodstamps and bring in a minimum income level.

Think about it - the largest gains in moving humanity forward occurred each time leisure time increased. Free people up to learn, to experiment, to not simply grind out each day to make ends meet.

 

[hity645]

I would like to know this as well.


I work 8 hours + 1 hour of overtime every weekday. Being able to work just 6 a day and still be able to keep the same job would be nice.

And the same pay. Crappy for me though, it takes me anywhere from 2-6 hours to reach some of the locations I support.

 

[hity645]

There is no legal maternity/paternity leave in the U.S.

In the U.S. if you have children, you are on your own.

Some companies take it upon themselves to offer some limited paid maternity leave, but it is very rare. Usually if you are a working woman having a child, you have to use your vacation time (typically 2-3 weeks a year), and then have to choose to either drop out of the work force, or leave your 3 week old with their parents or some sort of daycare service, which are not subsidized and cost a bloody fortune here. $11,000 per year per child is about the average for daycare, but it can cost as much as $20,000 per year per child, depending on where you live.

It's a miracle we have the birth rate we do, considering how much easier they make it to have a family in Europe.

FMLA covers paternity leave but you have to use any entitlement if you want to get paid. One of my employees took four months off for FMLA. He would have taken more but he is the only bread winner.

 

[Skripka]

FMLA covers paternity leave but you have to use any entitlement if you want to get paid. One of my employees took four months off for FMLA. He would have taken more but he is the only bread winner.

If you are eligible. Just like with whistleblower laws...sure the protections exist but odds are if you have to ask then you are not eligible.

-Be employed by the employer at least 12 months
-Meet an hours worked requirement within that 12 months
-Be at a job site with at least 50 employees within 75 miles.

And further...all that gets you is 12 weeks of unpaid leave where you cannot be fired for taking the leave. Most people do not have enough money in tank, with or without a newborn, to take 12 weeks off to adjust to having a kid. And a newborn is insanely expensive, total medical care costs of birthing a kid can break $20,000USD if out-of-pocket.

 

[nightfly]

The more you are paid, generally, the more you are expected to work .

This of course does not apply to management or executives. For them, it's actually an inverse ratio. The more they make, the less they work.

Remember that we aren't even people anymore. Personnel was changed to 'human resources'; stuff to be ordered up as needed, used up, and discarded as soon as possible. By not thinking of us as people, it's much easier to throw us away like used up parts of a machine. Thank you to the MBA prick who thought this one up.

 

[Retronym]

How the real world works:

Short term: Announce reduced work hours to much applause.
Medium/Long term: Lose job to someone willing to work longer hours.

Go ahead and make it shorter.
I'll exploit the situation to my personal economic advantage.

I know it comforts people to be able to point fingers at the evil capitalists for the above, but it is simply human nature. This will not change.

 

[jtm55]

Hi All
When I was a Paramedic, I worked 24 hours with 48 hours off. When I enrolled in school, my Supervisor worked with me on my schedule where I was working 3 12 hour shifts a week with 4 days off, although never Sat or Sun.
Mind you, 12 and 24 hour shifts tend to offer the most cost effective and efficient ways for employers to provide coverage 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. However there is a penalty that is paid.The traditional rotating shifts make it difficult for Paramedics, especially students, to achieve a balance between work and life. Rotating schedules can wreak havoc on the body and immune system. The interruption to normal sleep cycles coupled with irregular meal schedules can contribute to health problems and burnout.

Now that I'm a Physical Therapist I work a 40 hour week and I'm much happier.

 

[Deleted member 184142]

What are your thoughts on getting rid of the standard 8-hour workday? Do you think we would ever adopt this due to our “workaholic culture” in the US?

8-hour day and "workaholic" together? That's funny.

A standard day for me is 12 hours, 14, 16 and even 18 are not all that uncommon. Should also note I work 6-7 days a week, can't remember the last time I had a check with less than 80hrs.

 

[Deleted member 184142]

This of course does not apply to management or executives. For them, it's actually an inverse ratio. The more they make, the less they work.

Sounds like you have never been in management or worked with them.

I have worked with upper management on projects where I was the go to, did I see them in the shop or around much? Hell no, and because of this people think they are doing whatever, when I worked with them on projects like this I would get calls and emails at 2-3 in the morning, after I spent all day with them trying to get everything sorted, this would go on for weeks or months at a time and then they were on another project. If you don't perform, big time in upper end, you are gone, end of story, you get away with far more as far as poor job performance is concerned in basic job roles than you do in management.

 

[Sandman]

Once again you are confusing 'Socialism' with 'Communism'.

A little bit of socialism doesn't hurt in a modern civilised society. It's one of the things that helps stop people just dying in the gutter and such.

You are giving into fears fed to you from ultra rich people that really don't give a damn about you. They just want to make it easier for them to pay you less and work you harder and toss you aside when you can't do it anymore.

No, he's not confusing the two.

I agree that "a little bit" of socialism doesn't hurt, but the US is well past that amount. As for the results of "more than a little" socialism, see Greece, 2015. It's coming around the world, this I promise.

And finally, some free life advice. Don't blame others for your problems. It shows laziness and nobody frankly cares. You have the power to run your own life (at least for now, govt wants that too).

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

And finally, some free life advice. Don't blame others for your problems. It shows laziness and nobody frankly cares. You have the power to run your own life (at least for now, govt wants that too).

Your assumption that all people (or even most people) have control of their surroundings, and the option to improve their lives on their own behest sounds childish at best.

The truth is, the overwhelming majority of people are stuck and have no power to get themselves out of their situations, and as time goes on, those with money carve out more sweetheart political and tax deals to preserve more and more of it for themselves, making more and more people stuck and unable improve their situations.

As John Steinbeck is reported to have said:

"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires."

As time goes on, and the privileged use their position to corrupt and improve their own situation at the cost of the under privileged, and as the "red scare" becomes a more and more distant memory, one day the flood gates will open, and this will all come crashing down.

It might be peacefully through political means, or we may return to the violence of workers revolts, but it is only a matter of time. The abused will only let themselves be abused with the promise of future reward for so long, until it becomes evident that the future reward is a lie.

 

[Exavior]

Sounds like you have never been in management or worked with them.

I have worked with upper management on projects where I was the go to, did I see them in the shop or around much? Hell no, and because of this people think they are doing whatever, when I worked with them on projects like this I would get calls and emails at 2-3 in the morning, after I spent all day with them trying to get everything sorted, this would go on for weeks or months at a time and then they were on another project. If you don't perform, big time in upper end, you are gone, end of story, you get away with far more as far as poor job performance is concerned in basic job roles than you do in management.

Depends on where you are at. That is true for SOME places. At others, not so much. I have watched management that have done almost no work, be off screwing around. And it isn't a "we think this is what they are doing" but actually a known this person isn't doing any actual work and get paid to fuck around. Once you get to a certain level at certain jobs you have people under you that you can offload work over to. If things don't get done, it is because of them not you.

A few examples. My sister works in the kitchen at a nursing home as the head cook. Above her is the assistant dietary manager and the dietary manager. On days that neither of them are around (and she is working) she is in charge. Previous manager (before being promoted to another position) spent most of his day in his office when he bothered to show up. However most days he would show up a few hours late and / or leave a few hours early. Stuff didn't get ordered like it should be. People would call of and he couldn't be bothered to help find a replacement. The assistant was supposed to help with some of that stuff, they didn't show up half the time either.

 

[MrGuvernment]

International media have gone crazy for the idea that Swedish employers are introducing a six-hour work day, but for those of us living in the Nordic nation, the hype has little to do with the reality, writes The Local's Editor Maddy Savage.

http://www.thelocal.se/20151001/why-sweden-is-a-long-way-from-six-hour-days

Just before lunchtime, I got a call from a major UK broadcaster asking if I could help out with a feature on what the producer described as "Sweden's new six-hour work day". He said he had "spotted a story about it in the Sydney Morning Herald".

I turned down the request politely. I usually love sharing my knowledge of Sweden and my experiences of living here when approached by global media. But on this occasion I was unable to. Because the idea that there's a been mass shift towards shorter days in my adopted home simply isn't true.

It may be factually accurate that Swedes work some of the shortest hours in Europe and savour and respect work-life balance. But among the 100 or so contacts I have built up in Stockholm over the past 13 months, not one of them works for an employer offering such compressed hours. From expats in the startup scene to Swedes with jobs in schools, media organizations or at major Nordic brands, I am unaware of anyone who gets to go home before their afternoon coffee break.

Yet, after reviewing the global press over the past few days, most people outside Sweden would, just like that British journalist, be easily forgiven for thinking that Swedes were clocking off en masse at 3pm.

According to the Sydney Morning Herald, "businesses across the Scandinavian country are implementing the change so workers can spend more time at home or doing the activities they enjoy".

Meanwhile the Science Alert website reported that "Sweden is moving towards a standard six-hour work day".

The UK-based Independent proclaimed that the entire nation was "moving to a six-hour working day in a bid to increase productivity and make people happier".

The list goes on.


For those of us reading these articles in Sweden, the few examples cited by the global press were old news.

Toyota centres in Gothenburg, Sweden’s second largest city, moved to shorter days 13 years ago. A district council in Kiruna, in Sweden's far north offered 250 staff a six-hour work day in the 1980s (scrapping the method in 2005).

The most high-profile case in recent months is of a retirement home in west Sweden which started trialling a six-hour day in February, following long discussions about the experiment. A hospital in Gothenburg followed suit.

Since then a few companies have announced that they are also testing the concept, including a number of startups quite obviously hoping to make a name for themselves. These include Filimundus, an app developer based in Stockholm which must be cracking open some Swedish 'snaps' this week after being quoted by media across the globe, and Background AB, a creative communication agency in Falun, Dalarna.

Most of those trialling the idea have reported a positive impact, from increased efficiency to better communication and fewer staff sick days. So, it makes sense that other companies could soon start taking up the mantle.

But, the idea that Swedish firms are currently queuing up to offer their staff even shorter contracts than they do now is quite simply wrong.

"I'm close to hitting the wall," sighed one Swedish media professional approached by The Local.

"I might leave the office at 5.30pm, but I am checking my emails during the evening and at weekends."

And as for our Australian contacts working here in the Swedish capital?

"Ha ha, I read that piece in the Sydney Morning Herald this morning over breakfast...and laughed," said Claudia Reiners, a sales manager from Melbourne who works for a fashion tech firm.

"I work probably 50 hours a week, which is more than the 40-hour work week most people have in Australia," she added.

Meanwhile an Australian-born lawyer told The Local it was "hard to be humourous" about the false buzz around working hours in Sweden, when she'd recently found herself "writing legal memos at 1am on a Friday".

She concluded: "There are stories of young lawyers sleeping under their desks at the big firms here just like in London or Sydney: the desks are just sleek Scandinavian ones."

 

[XvMMvX]

Wow so much ignorance in this thread. Typical [H] in that it is the big bad CEOs and wall street.

Also, this thread is full of lolpoors.

Lastly you are doing it wrong. What people fail to realize is to move up and get the mans money you have to actually produce for the man. Not build widgets that JR on the street can do tomorrow if you quit.

Full time salaried employee with an "actual" work day of M-F 8-5. When in actuality I probably work 35. I golf, drink, go to sports game, etc with clients. I close deals and get my shit done and not one cares. I have a phone and remote access if someone really needs me on a Friday afternoon at 4pm if I decided to jet.

The irony of this website is the hatred for the American capital system typed from everything made in China.

 

[Exavior]

International media have gone crazy for the idea that Swedish employers are introducing a six-hour work day, but for those of us living in the Nordic nation, the hype has little to do with the reality, writes The Local's Editor Maddy Savage.

http://www.thelocal.se/20151001/why-sweden-is-a-long-way-from-six-hour-days

Hurray for false media hype.

 

[Wierdo]

8-hour day and "workaholic" together? That's funny.

A standard day for me is 12 hours, 14, 16 and even 18 are not all that uncommon. Should also note I work 6-7 days a week, can't remember the last time I had a check with less than 80hrs.

>8 hours is not workaholic, it's slave labor.

 

[kbrickley]

>8 hours is not workaholic, it's slave labor.

No, it is the market ... unless you are one of the lucky few who has a skill that almost no one else has, then there are people lined up to take your job ... I would rather work 10 hour days and be employed than demand 8 hour days or less and be unemployed

 

[amdgamer]

I believe we should be working towards making humans do less work. That should always be our goal. Humans will naturally do other creative things if given the opportunity. The idea that poor people are lazy and that's what makes them poor is a fallacy.

You have never lived in ghetto poor neighborhoods or have even looked from your ivory tower, have you? You reap what you sow and I have seen why some poor people stay poor. I lived in bad neighborhoods and went to one of the worst schools in the country. Our family used to get our car broken into several times a year. Back in the old days, you could see those welfare recipients line up on their porch the first week of each month. Then you see them raiding the liquor store and buying stacks of lottery tickets. I go to the convenience store and see a raid on pop, chips, snacks using food stamps. The parents of the kids in my neighborhood would have nothing to do with holding their children responsible to study and learn, and then they act surprised when their kid calls them from Juvi after getting arrested for robbing someone.

 

[Exavior]

>8 hours is not workaholic, it's slave labor.

What do you consider workaholic then? somebody that does their job?

Workaholic is something that can't separate themselves from work. When home they are still checking emails, every time their phone dings they are rushing to see if it is something for work. They are still thinking through some project from that day sitting there at dinner... Doesn't even have to be that work requires it.

Take myself for interest. I will admit I am a workaholic. I am on the clock 40 hours a week, on call 24x7 with callout pay if I get called. That said I still on a regular basis will log in a night to check on things, read through emails, run some small updates, research information, try to do a little more work on some project I was working on... I am not forced to do that by work, I don't even get paid to do it as I am doing it myself off the clock. Just don't like having that nagging feeling that something isn't complete and is waiting on me to finish later.

 

[jtm55]

What do you consider workaholic then? somebody that does their job?

Workaholic is something that can't separate themselves from work. When home they are still checking emails, every time their phone dings they are rushing to see if it is something for work. They are still thinking through some project from that day sitting there at dinner... Doesn't even have to be that work requires it.

Take myself for interest. I will admit I am a workaholic. I am on the clock 40 hours a week, on call 24x7 with callout pay if I get called. That said I still on a regular basis will log in a night to check on things, read through emails, run some small updates, research information, try to do a little more work on some project I was working on... I am not forced to do that by work, I don't even get paid to do it as I am doing it myself off the clock. Just don't like having that nagging feeling that something isn't complete and is waiting on me to finish later.

If you're working to the exclusion of your family, your marriage, other relationships, and your life is out of balance, or your physical health is out of balance.When work takes an exclusive priority to everything else, that's the more extreme end of the spectrum where it becomes a problem,

 

[TwistedAegis]

You have never lived in ghetto poor neighborhoods or have even looked from your ivory tower, have you? You reap what you sow and I have seen why some poor people stay poor. I lived in bad neighborhoods and went to one of the worst schools in the country. Our family used to get our car broken into several times a year. Back in the old days, you could see those welfare recipients line up on their porch the first week of each month. Then you see them raiding the liquor store and buying stacks of lottery tickets. I go to the convenience store and see a raid on pop, chips, snacks using food stamps. The parents of the kids in my neighborhood would have nothing to do with holding their children responsible to study and learn, and then they act surprised when their kid calls them from Juvi after getting arrested for robbing someone.

42% of American's personal income is $25k or less. That's a huge amount of people to demonize in one broad brush.

And you know what, even if it is true - what is going on for that significant portion of America isn't working - how do we fix it.

 

[daglesj]

If you're working to the exclusion of your family, your marriage, other relationships, and your life is out of balance, or your physical health is out of balance.When work takes an exclusive priority to everything else, that's the more extreme end of the spectrum where it becomes a problem,

Yeah this whole thing of "I work super hard" to the detriment of everything else is just retarded.

You are not a good worker, You are either an idiot or you have some major major personal problems.

It really doesn't impress anyone. Even employers will just take advantage of you and toss you aside when you finally have a breakdown.

You don't win.

 

[Bootleg Usher]

Sounds like you have never been in management or worked with them.

I have worked with upper management on projects where I was the go to, did I see them in the shop or around much? Hell no, and because of this people think they are doing whatever, when I worked with them on projects like this I would get calls and emails at 2-3 in the morning, after I spent all day with them trying to get everything sorted, this would go on for weeks or months at a time and then they were on another project. If you don't perform, big time in upper end, you are gone, end of story, you get away with far more as far as poor job performance is concerned in basic job roles than you do in management.

You hit the nail on the head. Just because the CEO of Molly Maid isn't scrubbing toilets for 16 hours a day doesn't mean he isn't working his ass off.

 

[Old_Way]

The devil is in the details I guess. If hourly wages weren't 'adjusted up' to give those workers the same take-home pay as before, it could have some success. Otherwise, it's probably a recipe for fail as any non-service industry business would just move or outsource some of their workload to manage the increased employee costs.

 

[wirk]

It's a miracle we have the birth rate we do, considering how much easier they make it to have a family in Europe.

I think if you would count chlidren in poor immigrant families there would be not much difference (in Europe too poor immigrant families have more children). There is here problem of cultural/social norms.

The question from where the money comes for social support is relevent. US spends 5% of GDP on military, in EUrope it is 2%. 3% of GDP directed to other purposes makes huge difference. Then there is collosal difference in health-related expenses, something like 17% of the GDP in the US comparing to 8-10% in EUrope. The US level health expenses would be justified it there is phenomenal difference in the health of the population but there is nothing like that seen. Conclusion is that there is giant inefficiency built in the US health care. Together this is at least 10% of GDP which in the US is burned for purposes different than in the EU.