Why so excited for the iPhone X ? It's the same old thing running boring iOS

Discussion in 'Smart Phones and Devices' started by Zorachus, Sep 10, 2017.

  1. Trimlock

    Trimlock [H]ardForum Junkie

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    If I needed a new phone I'd get the X easy. With the price reduction im tempted to sell my 6S+ and get the 7+ for the water resistance.
     
  2. CHANG3D

    CHANG3D [H]ardness Supreme

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    I'm looking forward to see the carrier pricing or deals. I'm also praying that the Pixel 2 doesn't have some carrier store exclusivity.
     
  3. Omerta

    Omerta [H]ard|Gawd

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    Lol. It's a good thing zorchawowow or whatever the op's username is doesn't run apple. He's not very bright.
     
  4. Nebell

    Nebell Gawd

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    This thing is more expensive than Note 8 and Note 8 is much bigger and has a Wacom pen o_O
    It's the best looking iPhone to date but it's still quite ugly. And I can't stand iOS.
     
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  5. Aurelius

    Aurelius 2[H]4U

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    That last part is one reason why I don't mind getting iPhones, whatever you think about iOS or Apple at large. The Note 8 is a great phone hardware-wise, and of course Android is more flexible, but you know what I don't miss? OS installs that degrade in performance within months because the OEMs are just that bad at programming. System updates that show up half a year after the OS creator released them. Basically, that sense that Samsung (and to a lesser extent, other vendors) only cares about software support for long enough to clinch the sale.
     
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  6. Zorachus

    Zorachus [H]ardness Supreme

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    That's true for non Google phones, but to me in the smartphone world there's only two lines to chose from, the iPhone Plus model or Pixel XL phone.

    - Apple = I'm really not a fan of the iPhone, but with the Apple phones, you are guaranteed updates for years and always great support, even if your phone is 2 or 3 years old, Apple still supports you, and you get the update just like the newest iPhone would, immediate and right away.

    - Google phones = Nexus and now Pixel phones are pretty similar to Apple support with the iPhone, with the Pixel you get supported first and right away on updates. And for 2 yrs you are fully supported nonstop. Plus the Pixel line runs stock Android, an no argument it's the smoothest most lag free of Android phones.

    - Other Android phones = Samsung, LG, HTC, etc...to be honest I see zero need for these today, Samsung's Lagwiz still has hiccups, and slight micro stutters. I owned the Galaxy S8+, and my old Nexus 6P was night and day smoother than the S8+ FACT, not made up, I had both phones sides by side for a week, and the 6P was smoother overall. Yeah the S8+ was faster, no doubt about it, and the hardware and display on the S8+ was amazing, but the 6P was a more lag free phone. And don't get em started on Samsung's OS updates, they can be 4 to 6 months behind when Google releases a new Android update. That's unacceptable. I could understand 4 to 6 weeks behind official releases, but 6 months !!! Come on. And when a Samsung phone is 2 to 3 yrs old, LOL good luck on timely support.
     
  7. Tiberian

    Tiberian Finger Me

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    But there's always OnePlus as well who makes some damned fine - and damned well priced - flagship-level hardware as well and out of the box those are basically "factory ready" for custom ROMs based on the very latest version of Android, whatever it happens to be. Typically there will be a lot of community support ready to go before whatever the latest version of a OnePlus device even hits the market for sale, actually, and as noted the pricing on the devices is pretty much always going to be less than comparable hardware by the big 4 (Samsung, LG, Lenovo/Motorola, and HTC) and all the other smaller manufacturers as well and yes I know Xiaomi is gaining traction worldwide nowadays as well.

    But the whole idea of the OnePlus devices is giving the end user the ability to customize effectively everything - they're still the only manufacturer that I'm aware of that is completely OK with unlocking the bootloader of their devices and even covers a "brick" situation (from a failed flashing process) under warranty which is pretty awesome. The fact that they do all of that while also providing a significantly lower price is something that cannot be dismissed out of hand.

    So, with Pixel devices being so absurdly expensive nowadays and lacking in some features that people are actually wanting, OnePlus is still a very capable and worthy alternative. Their stock OxygenOS ROMs are damned fast and smooth, minimal bloat of any kind, almost pure Android really with a lot more customization possible than stock Android has ever offered so, definitely something to always consider as a device.
     
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  8. Zorachus

    Zorachus [H]ardness Supreme

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    Good point on the OnePlus line, they took the spot of the Nexus line in my opinion. My brother has the 3T replaced his broken Nexus 5X, and man that 3T is super fast. And is lightweight in the hand.
     
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  9. CHANG3D

    CHANG3D [H]ardness Supreme

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    I would not trust OnePlus after two years of devices that get a single year of updates. For Android, it's Pixel or bust.

    On OEM skins, I think you have to make an exception for HTC. HTC sense UI is actually smooth and arguably better than stock/pixel UI. To bunch HTC up with Samsung is an insult to logic.

    And did you guys see the latest speed test for Essential? Goddamn that phones lagged like crazy when the memory is loaded. Pretty disappointing from Andy Rubin.
     
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  10. radeon962

    radeon962 Gawd

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    Having bought and owned every OnePlus phone since the original One and through the 5, I can say OnePlus makes great hardware (except the camera seems to always be an Achilles Heel).

    Fast performance and physically well built.

    Software is still a work in progress if you don't root and run custom ROM's. For the buy and use crowd, it may or may not provide a great experience as OnePlus has a tendency to release an update that fixes some things but screws up something else and they seem to determine what they will update and for how long on the fly as Carl said that they did not promise anything when the whole Thunderclap campaign was going on to try and get OnePlus to listen to the original supporters who bought the One and Two.

    I gave my OnePlus 5 to my son to replace my old OnePlus One that he had been using. He has been happy with it but has had the occasional issue with wifi and Bluetooth disconnecs. Sounds like OnePlus is working on it but software updates are still not on the Apple/Google level.

    Camera is the biggest area where you notice that corners were cut and has been that way since the One. I don't know if it's hardware, software or a combination of both but the 5 camera improved on previous phones but still can't hold a candle to the S8, Pixel or 7.

    My son does not take a lot of pictures but does game on his phone so it is a great fit for him.

    After purchase support is still questionable and obviously not up to Google/Apple levels and most likely will never be.
     
  11. Tiberian

    Tiberian Finger Me

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    And again I say that doesn't matter at all given the huge community of support behind OnePlus devices - even the OnePlus One will have Android 8 soon if it doesn't have it already and that won't be coming from OnePlus obviously who has long since let that phone drift into obsolescence when it obviously isn't obsolescent, and that Snapdragon 801 SoC in it, unbelievably relevant to this day, really.

    I learned a long time ago as an Android enthusiast to not give a fuck about manufacturer support for given devices and to focus on buying those that have communities around them with lots of custom ROM support and other aspects that go far beyond what any manufacturer - even OnePlus - will do for their devices once they hit that 18-24 month age point and typically just fall off the radar as far the companies are concerned.

    Even with the one or two Nexus devices that I owned in the past I didn't care about when Google would get around to pushing out the next version or build of Android for those devices because I knew someone out there in the community would have it done and potentially improve on it in various ways and I was rarely if ever let down in that respect.
     
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  12. Zorachus

    Zorachus [H]ardness Supreme

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    Totally agree on OPO support. I have the original OnePlus One as a backup device, I just flashed Lineage 15 ROM, and phone works like a champ. Just smooth and nice.

    Who gives a crap about support on a developer friendly phone, designed to be rooted and ROM'd.

    Who would buy a OPO and just run it plain Jane stock out of the box ? That's not who these phones are for
     
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  13. NamelessPFG

    NamelessPFG Limp Gawd

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    Yeah, it's annoying, but I figure that's why the XDA-developers community exists. Too bad Samsung seems hellbent on bootloader-locking their North American variants lately. LG doesn't sound much better; I figure both of them need to take a page from OnePlus here.

    As for OS performance degradation, I recall that one of my local friends was still rocking an iPhone 4 of some sort, running a fairly modern iOS version (past iOS 7 for sure), and it was SLOW. That thing clearly didn't age well.

    Almost reminds me of the various OS discussions I've read on how people will intentionally install older Mac OS versions to make things easier on older Macs (for instance, System 6 instead of 7 on 16 MHz 68030s, System 7.5.5/Mac OS 7.6.1 instead of Mac OS 9 on pre-G3 Power Macs, OS X Tiger instead of OS X Leopard on G4 systems that don't need installer hacks for Leopard) because they felt that the later versions, for all their speed increases, felt sluggish on older hardware.

    Conversely, OS X/macOS had a ridiculous rate of planned obsolescence going on, which is kinda funny when people use iOS software support as an iPhone selling point.

    Any version before 10.4 Tiger (or maybe 10.3 Panther) was effectively useless from a third-party software standpoint even a decade ago, like "you're better off running Mac OS 9.2.2" bad. Tiger itself cut out systems which didn't have built-in FireWire (conspicuously including all those 350 MHz slot-loading iMac G3s). Earlier versions cut out 604e-powered beasts like the Power Mac 9600 despite being capable of running OS X during development. Leopard cut off all G3s and G4s before 867 MHz (the latter can be worked around), and killed the Classic environment for PowerPC systems. Snow Leopard axed PowerPC support entirely. Lion axed the Rosetta emulation layer for PowerPC apps. At least every version since Mavericks is a free upgrade instead of some kind of paid service pack if you're running an Intel Mac, though finding PowerPC software is a complete pain these days because I keep pulling up later, Intel-only versions hosted by developers without any regard for older systems like the ones I maintain.

    Yeah, I got carried away there, but long story short, Apple does not care one bit about backwards compatibility or providing lasting software support in all cases (just ask those suckers who bought a Core Solo Mac mini that doesn't have 64-bit support). If anything, it's surprising that they don't use the same tactics to push iPhone sales like they do Mac sales.
     
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  14. UnknownSouljer

    UnknownSouljer [H]ardness Supreme

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    The hardware and software of a lot of platforms experienced growing pains in the late 2000s and early 2010s.
    However as the hardware itself has matured the 'obsolescence' through software as you call it has declined, rapidly.
    The big reason for the drop off I think is primarily due to how fast hardware was accelerating and how software was also changing rapidly to utilize this new found speed. Now however there has been diminishing returns on how much faster fast hardware is in compared to how much processing power new software needs to run.

    Need examples?: Well, High Sierra as an OS basically covers every Mac since 2010. The update will be free. And every piece of hardware that is supported by it will operate just fine. I'm not at all concerned about running it on my 2011 iMac.
    http://osxdaily.com/2017/06/06/macos-high-sierra-compatibility-list/
    The iOS side is also extensive for iOS 11.
    https://www.macrumors.com/2017/06/06/ios-11-compatible-iphone-ipad-ipod-models/

    Now, I would be wary of running iOS 11 on a 5s, but the 6 and on will be more than fast enough. That's 4 years worth of devices that will more than likely run the software without issue (although there will probably be growing pains like there usually is... it will probably be several point releases in, before iOS 11 is properly optimized for older hardware).
    And like I mentioned before, yeah there has been slow downs of using new iOS versions on older iOS devices. But this goes back into what I was saying above: the drastic increases in hardware versus the slower increase in hardware capability needed to run the software makes this an entirely different time. On balance the same issue(s) has taken place on the Android side as well. Early devices really couldn't take too many updates before being entirely obsolete, but now Android could probably support devices 4 years old (if their partners would actually bother to do it).

    ===

    I can't speak too much to the times of the PPC Mac, but in terms of the original Intel Core and things of that nature, most of that hardware dropped off on every other platform too. Everyone on Windows and Linux got just as screwed if they wanted to run a 64 bit OS with the Original Core. Each platform can only exist so long, but with the nature of hardware these days, it's less and less of an issue. I know you're annoyed that PPC isn't really covered anymore, but Mac has been Intel since 2006. The cutoff had to happen in order for software development to stop using legacy based coding.

    As great as Windows is with compatibility, it has also forced them to continue to support things that bog down the OS. It's a tradeoff for sure, but considering most people don't use a computer for more than 6 years on the outside, I think Apple has done more than a reasonable job with how and when things are rotated into obsolescence. Which I would hardly call 'planned obsolesence' more like 6 years in, whatever hardware you're on is just plain old. That's hardly Apple's fault, that's just the pace of technology. I wouldn't want to be on a PC from 2005 or earlier either. I'm not sure how you can fault Apple for the same thing on PPC.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  15. Aurelius

    Aurelius 2[H]4U

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    I have to disagree: Apple does care about backward compatibility, it just tends to be fairly ruthless when it decides to cut things off -- and for a while, it was particularly bad about maintaining performance on the oldest hardware.

    One big shift it did in the past couple of years, at least for iOS, was to re-prioritize how it developed for older phones. Before, it would target newer hardware with iOS and remove features until the software could run on the oldest hardware they wanted to support. Now, it's more of a holistic approach where it thinks about the older hardware from the start. Apple is helped by hardware getting progressively more capable, of course.

    And like Unknown said, High Sierra should support many Macs that are several years old... now, they probably won't run it as well as on a newer Mac, but my parents' base-level 2007 iMac always ran macOS well up until Apple slashed support. I'll definitely agree that macOS / OS X upgrades tended to be rough earlier on, if just because the hardware differences were much more conspicuous between generations.

    Besides, I'd still rather choose long-but-flawed support over what Samsung and most non-Google vendors do. If my phone gets 5 years of OS updates, that's 5 years of security fixes, 5 years of getting the latest app versions, 5 years of compatibility with key features. Yes, you can use ROMs to work around that, but I see that as a bit of a cop-out: it's like buying a 15MPG car but saying you can get 30MPG if you rip out all the seats. You have a better case on the desktop, but still... several years of largely elegant support these days.
     
  16. NamelessPFG

    NamelessPFG Limp Gawd

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    That's good to know. I'm not sure what the obsolescence rate is on modern versions of macOS, other than that El Capitan requires SSE4 and will thus not run on 65nm Core 2 CPUs. However, Core 2-based systems had a 32-bit EFI related issue that cut them off officially several years earlier; it reminds me a lot of the "32-bit dirty" ROM issue with earlier Macintosh II models and the SE/30 that cut them off from Mac OS 7.6.1 or so without a 32-bit clean ROM SIMM and some OS-side hacks (and earlier versions needed Mode32 to actually run in 32-bit mode).

    I also forgot to mention on the iOS side that my little bro has an iPod touch 4th-gen that is forever stuck on iOS 6, but having looked up the specs, there's no way that thing has the chops for iOS 7 and later. Too little RAM, for starters! And now the iPod touch line is effectively retired since at this point, the market is saturated with so many second-hand iPhones that you can just use one of those without phone service. Shoot, you can get an iPhone SE starting at $350 brand new now, which is roughly the same price you would've had to pay for a new iPod touch back in the day.

    Also, I do have to admit, as someone put in in the Top 5 Best CPUs thread: Core 2 was like the CPU equivalent of discovering FTL travel. Sure, there were Pentium D and Athlon 64 X2 to keep in mind, but most people were still running single-core CPUs or PowerPC at the time, at which point a CPU like the Q6600 could be as much as eight times faster, maybe more!

    I do understand why Apple dropped PowerPC; IBM basically NetBursted themselves with the 970/G5. Too hot and power-inefficient for the sake of high clocks, and the dual-core versions needed closed-loop liquid cooling, to boot. It wasn't exactly doing Apple any favors when their PowerBook and iBook lines were still stuck on G4s for those reasons. Intel finally got their act together, and the rest is history. It really was the move that Apple needed to make for the Mac line, even if it meant eating lots of crow after many years of proclaiming PowerPC supremacy. Times changed fast back then, that's for sure.

    However, their disregard for backwards compatibility has been a real pain when it comes to maintaining this fleet of vintage Macs I picked up from some neighbors (IIcx, 6500, 2000 iMac G3 350, iBook G4 1.42, and also one I didn't get from them - a dual 1.42 GHz MDD FW800), to the point that I recall reading about how recent macOS versions aren't too friendly with HFS-formatted media (not HFS+, obviously, given that APFS is a very recent addition). Most data recovery efforts often involve jumping between a series of vintage Macs, particularly if 400K/800K floppies are involved.

    On the iOS side of things, I think iOS 11 is going to be a long-overdue update, largely because we finally have the first attempt at proper file management officially baked into the OS. Keep in mind that I thought the original iPhone was a major letdown for omitting things like multitasking (something Windows Mobile already had), cut/copy/paste (c'mon, Palm OS and even the classic Mac OS had that!), and any form of installing third-party apps (App Store came in the first major firmware update IIRC), but all of those were added over the years to the point that people forget that iOS originally couldn't do any of that.

    Needless to say, a lot of that missing functionality is why I never considered iOS without the possibility of jailbreaking in the past. Things are just starting to turn around as of late.

    Five years of support is already three and a half more years than most Android manufacturers will provide - yes, even Google themselves. That's some serious dedication, so long as the 5-year-old devices aren't screwed over in terms of optimization.

    It's also about five years more support than Wacom ever gave Cintiq Companion Hybrid owners, and no, I'm not going to stop ragging on them for releasing a $1,300+ MSRP Android tablet that's forever stuck on 4.2.1 Jelly Bean because they don't know how to do OS support post-release (and, in fact, I was told they outsourced the whole Android implementation), or release kernel sources and make clear that the bootloader's unlocked so the community can do it for them. Perfect example of hardware that's hobbled by lack of software support, and we're already getting to that point where the latest Android apps won't even run on it due to lack of API support. Oh, and because it's basically a very lightly modified AOSP distribution, it lacks any form of multi-window that would make a 13.3" screen much more palatable to use.

    Alas, like I said above, iOS was a tough sell because of all the missing functionality I took for granted in pretty much every other OS - functionality that had to be slowly added by those updates one by one, to the point that I wouldn't have taken it seriously prior to iOS 7. Now iOS 11 makes it even clearer that I would expect no less from a modern OS, particularly regarding file management.

    With all that said, I do have to admit that even if the iPhones are very much underwhelming, the 2017 iPad Pros are some seriously tempting pieces of hardware, if not for the price tags putting them in Windows Tablet PC range (plus another $100 for the Pencil). Nice and portable, excellent screen quality, pen input that scared the crap out of Wacom if the selling points on the MobileStudio Pro and Cintiq Pro are any indication, 120 Hz refresh rate (hot damn, I never thought I'd see that outside of a PC gaming monitor!), the possibility to use one as a quasi-Cintiq with ASTROPAD (but only with a Mac, sadly), and most of all, the assurance that you're getting tablet-optimized apps instead of smartphone apps expanded into a total waste of space. For as much crap as I give Apple regarding software support and basic functionality, they do tend to inspire developers to actually take up their new APIs and functionality, putting them to good use.
     
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  17. Trimlock

    Trimlock [H]ardForum Junkie

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    The only phone Apple killed with a "speed" update was the 4. It was the last phone at the time to get upgraded, but the software was a completely fresh iOS, one that had dual core capabilities baked into the OS and the 4 was single core.

    It was stupid to let the hacked version still go to the 4. I commend Apple for sticking to their guns and committing to try to make it work. They did allow phones to revert back, something they've never done.

    Still a much better track record for pretty much every Android phone outside of the Nexus.
     
  18. radeon962

    radeon962 Gawd

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    For the crowd that wants to root and ROM that's fine.

    For the buy and use, not so much.
     
  19. Tup3x

    Tup3x [H]ard|Gawd

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  20. st4rk

    st4rk Gawd

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    When I traveled 90% for my job I tried Windows Phone, Android, and iPhone. The fact that the iPhone "just worked" is why I liked it so much. I get extremely frustrated with phones when simple things like checking your schedule, making a call, sending/synching email, etc. are glitchy or feel like a pain in the ass. The iPhone is just incredibly easy to use and never glitches out on me. Super important when you're constantly on the run.

    With that said, all my iPhones seem to slow down after a year or so. Not sure if I get used to the speed or if I'm just adding too much crap on it.
     
  21. bpizzle1

    bpizzle1 2[H]4U

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    Not terribly surprising, but they could have least defaulted to black bars to save some power with the oled lol.
     
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  22. CHANG3D

    CHANG3D [H]ardness Supreme

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  23. Tup3x

    Tup3x [H]ard|Gawd

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    In my opinion fingerprint scanner is just way more user friendly and convenient than face detection and/or iris scanners. I just love fingerprint scanners - those actually just work and aren't gimmicks that are hard to use.
     
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  24. DRJ1014

    DRJ1014 [H]ardness Supreme

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    I wish they would have some how incorporated the fingerprint scanner into the X. They say the facial rec is fast but just looking at the demonstration I think the fingerprint is still faster.
     
  25. UnknownSouljer

    UnknownSouljer [H]ardness Supreme

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    That is completely dependent on implementation.

    If all that is required to unlock the phone is picking it up. Then it will be a significantly easier unlock method than using a finger print scanner. (In case youre not getting it, the act of picking up the phone could activate any internal gyros, and the camera could easily be wide enough to detect the face from any angle unlocking the phone).

    I wouldn't look at other companies implementation as a benchmark. Apple has consistently been later to uptake tech with a better implementation. That includes finger print scanners. Which they didn't pioneer, but had the first version that actually worked properly. I expect more of the same.
     
  26. rive22

    rive22 [H]ardness Supreme

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    It's Apple. So no I'm not excited.
     
  27. Zorachus

    Zorachus [H]ardness Supreme

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    Really not a fan of this dude, and I think he used to be a super iFan, but man he trashes the UI on the iPhone X, and makes some good points here. It's a long video, but the parts he digs into start at 17:00 and go for about five minutes.
     
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  28. Zorachus

    Zorachus [H]ardness Supreme

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  29. NIZMOZ

    NIZMOZ [H]ard|Gawd

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    My Note 8 has no lag or stutters. My S7 Edge does every once in a while. Much less now after I reset it after a year. But the Note 8 kills my Iphone 7 plus I just sold. Sorry, but the iPhone X is just a waste of money for tech that has been out for 3 years.
     
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  30. Zorachus

    Zorachus [H]ardness Supreme

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    Marques just nails it here, his 5 points are truly great questions and comments.

    Really you must watch this 8min video.
     
  31. Tiberian

    Tiberian Finger Me

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    Most important question Marques presented: "The iPhone X - what does it do for $1,000 that the cheaper new iPhone 8/8+ doesn't do?" and in my own opinion I would say the changed physical design, the OLED display with that horrid cutout (my opinion, remember), and the various other virtually identical aspects between the models does not justify another $300. I know there will be people - just as Marques so rightly points out - that will buy the iPhone X just to own one and have that "Look what I've got..." aspect (come on, there are people that buy the most expensive <whatever> gadgets for that and we all damned well know it).

    It's somewhat amazing to me the price differential here, when they were announcing the iPhone 8/8+ pricing I was thinking, ok, maybe $899 tops for the base model iPhone X, surely they won't go to $999 and higher..." and obviously I was off on that one because that's what happened. I figure when the actual raw component price breakdown ends up being published (as they always do) we'll see the iPhone X having about $350-400 worth of components in it and raking in mad sick bloated profits once more for Apple on the backs of people that just can't seem to realize how mad sick bloated those prices happen to be. :)

    And for the record: no, I don't believe the Note8 is worth the asking price either, not by $250-300 so, basically the same bloated pricing there too but Samsung is doing it to make up for losses with the Note7 fiasco in my opinion.

    If this trend of flagships crossing the $800+ price points continues, well shit, I'll be buying used phones from now on - I've never actually purchased a brand new smartphone for more than $200 tops, ain't got no plans to do it now with this kind of skyrocketing prices for sure.
     
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  32. Trimlock

    Trimlock [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Literal white lines are better than metaphorical white lines.

    Just saying...
     
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  33. Tiberian

    Tiberian Finger Me

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    But but but... with an OLED display that's literally a waste of power. ;)
     
  34. realworld

    realworld Limp Gawd

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    Smart phones in general have hit a wall. Only thing they can do now is improve the apps. Say what!? They're still the same crappy shovelwares that already plague the App Store and Play Store.
     
  35. CHANG3D

    CHANG3D [H]ardness Supreme

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    From what I read, the notch lines could be changed to black. And videos do not go into the notch.
     
  36. bastage

    bastage Pics of your wife?

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    That is what I've seen as well.. in a way this is just going to move some of the normal on screen things off the screen. Almost like the 2nd display on the v10/v20 but more useful.
     
  37. Zorachus

    Zorachus [H]ardness Supreme

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  38. Tiberian

    Tiberian Finger Me

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    Feb 12, 2012
    Just gotta remember to keep your eyes closed, apparently, because that renders Face ID useless according to Apple's presented info. But it is a pretty nasty side effect of using that kind of device unlock - now I suppose we'll see yet another court case come along like the one previously related to unlocking devices with fingerprints, who knows.
     
  39. mls1995

    mls1995 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,162
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    oh no another Zorachus ADHD phone thread! Just let Android people do the Android thing and let iPhone people do the IPhone thing.

    Zorachus if you only can like a JB iPhone then you really don't like the iPhone. Just get an Android Pixel where you can do whatever you want with it.
     
    dan1 likes this.
  40. CHANG3D

    CHANG3D [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,318
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2010
    Cops could also force open your hands, take your fingers potentially breaking them, and unlock your phone with touch ID...

    Lesson of this is, if you truly have something to hide, use passcode/password lock.

    But on the other side, I do wish Apple would build in re-authentication on an app based level. For example, require a passcode lock when opening WhatsApp or Facebook Messenger.