Why LCDs do not make great gaming monitors

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DocWonder

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The truth behind why refresh rates DO matter


Let's start with a few facts:

LCD

Response time: 4ms-30+ms

Refresh rates: 60-75hz


CRT

Response time: 2ms or less

Refresh rate: 60-160hz (depends on the quality of your monitor and resolution you're using)


Goal of this article: 1) To explain why LCD is limited in its capability at showing fast moving frames (ie. blurring and ghosting in first person shooter games) 2) Demonstrate a way people with CRT monitors can replicate LCD faults.


We'll begin with a discussion on how response times, refresh rates, and frames per second relate.
Response time is the measure of time for a pixel to change from grey to grey or black to white (depends on manufacturer's marketing department on which is the better number). In other words, response time tells you how fast the screen can show you a new image. Taking that into account, using a little math, we can calculate the maximum number of frames per second a given response time can handle. CRT monitors, for all intents and purposes, have a negligible response time, therefore allows a theoretical max fps of 500fps. This means that the response time will never be a bottleneck for the CRT monitor. LCDs on the otherhand are affected by slow response times and do play a factor in FPS output. For example, a theoretical 12ms response time is able to update the screen 83.333 times in 1 second.

Math: 1 second / .012 seconds = 83.3333 max frames per second


Refresh rate is the number of times a monitor draws or updates/refreshes the screen per second. Refresh rate is calculated in hertz. To put it simply, we can also consider refresh rate in terms of frames per second. Therefore, a refresh rate of 100hz will allow for a maximum 100 frames per second to be seen. And you can then follow a 60hz refresh rate means a maximum of 60 frames per second. The refresh rate is dictated by the type of graphics card you use but limited by the monitor in use. So if you set a refresh rate that the monitor doesn't support, the screen will go blank or you'll cause damage to the screen.

Math: 60hz = 60 max frames per second


Frames per second is the measure of frames being drawn per second. Usually this term is used in reference to video cards and games. Today's graphics cards can pump out frames per second in the hundreds for some game titles. The more frames per second potentiates a smoother appearance while playing a game. As you may have noted by now, three main factors affect the ultimate performance of how many frames you ACTUALLY observe... the response time, refresh rate, and the graphics card. So its easy to see how even though your graphics card may be reporting 300fps in a game, you're observed fps is actually a lot lower. The Observed frame per second is limited by the weakest of the three factors.


Now, we can appropriately discuss the LCD's weaknesses in fast pace games. When LCDs first came out for consumer use, it was common to see response times of 30+ms or greater... that calculates to a horrible 33.3 frames per second or less. Refresh rates were at 60hz and let's assume you had a video card that could push 100 fps with no problem. That means the response rate of the old lcds was the bottle neck. As any gamer knows, 33 frames per second is horrible to look at (for those of you who doubt this, we will replicate this on a crt monitor later in our discussion) So LCDs were not even an option for fast gaming then... but then...

Recently, the LCD market is being flooded with low reponse time monitors... 16ms, 12ms, 8ms... and yes even 4ms. Bare in mind these are all manufacturers BEST numbers, but for simplicity sake, we're gonna assume they truly perform that well.

Let's put down some figures: 16ms response time = 63 max frames per second
12ms response time = 83 max frames per second
8ms response time = 125 max frames per second
4ms response time = 250 max frames per second

Remember, we're assuming the manufacturer's have our best interest in mind and have advertised these numbers because they're true (cough, bs, cough).

If you have been following the discussion thus far, you will notice there is a HUGE discrepancy in response time and refresh rate. Yes, even though a 4ms response time will deliver a possible 250 frames per second, being capped with a refresh rate of 60 hz will limit your Observed frames per second to 60 frames per seond. Sure you're graphics card may be spittin out 250 frames/s, but the monitor is only asking for 60 of those frames... the rest of those frames your expensive graphics card spits out is wasted and ends up causing visual defects such as tearing (tearing is the phenomenon that occurs when the graphic cards out put exceeds the refresh rate of the monitor). Suggestions to fix tearing is to enable v-sync.... thereby limiting the graphics card output to match the refresh rate. In the case of a 60hz lcd, that means your monster graphics card is now outputtin 60 fps.

Bottom line is that the manufacturers have constantly improved the response times, but have not considered increasing the refresh rate. The improvement of response times serves more as a marketing tool, than actual performance gains. The 60hz refresh rate will limit any gains from response time... As far as I'm concerned, a LCD monitor that can deliver a mean 16ms response time will be able to perform optimally for a 60hz refresh rate... both will be able to deliver 60 frames per second.

At this time, some of you may be saying, "bah, refresh rate doesn't matter for lcd because there is no flickering. CRT's need higer refresh rates to counter flickering."

That is partly true... I agree. CRT's do need to achieve higer refresh rates to combat the potential flicker. CRT's phosphors light up and darken almost instantaneously... which results in flicker if the refresh rate is too low... at the same time this is CRT's advantage in response time. LCD's don't need to combat flicker, b/c it's pixels persist in an on state longer... they don't darken quickly... therefore no flicker. LCD pixels only change when told to do so. That's why using an LCD at 60hz has no flicker. LCDs are great for daily windows activities and stuff.

However when we get to fast pace games... LCDs fall apart. The limiting factor in many LCD panels today is the 60hz or 75hz refresh rate. The response time is become less and less of a factor in many cases. So many people disreguard the refresh rate, firmly believing that it just doesnt come to play in LCDs. And in most situations, that's true. But if you're a hardcore gamer, there is a difference between 60 fps, 85 fps, and 100 fps. Yes the eye can percieve greater than 30 fps... I'm not hear to argue that... you can google that yourself and find the truth. What I will do is allow some of you to replicate on a CRT how an LCD would look when playing your current games.

The setup:

Counter-strike 1.6 or CZ
Graphics card that can push an average 100 fps in CS
CRT monitor set at a refresh rate of 100 hz
Enable v-sync always on in display properties


1) Start CS
2) Go into console
3) enter the command fps_max 100 (this will set CS to allow a max of 100 fps)
4) enter the command net_graph 3 (this will allow you to see the fps)
5) Start playing, run around and move the mouse around... observer the fluidity of the movement.

6) now, enter the command fps_max 60 (this will simulate a refresh rate of 60hz of a LCD, your CRT monitor should still have a refresh rate of 100hz, meaning it will draw 100 frames per second on your screen... even if they're redundant frames due to a 60 hz cap)

7) You should immediately see a difference... it will appear blurry when you move. That's because now you're only updating at 60 frames per second, just like a LCD with 60 hz refresh rate. The 100hz of the crt monitor will ensure that there is no flickering... it essentially simulates the appearance of an LCD screens lack of flickering.


Well, that concludes this discussion. Hope this helps.
 
A waste of time even posting, IMO

I enjoy playing games, I usually play/have the current games. I own a Dell 2001FP, and I dont even think/nor worry/nor have any issues playing on it.

How many guys on here have newer LCD's and refuse to play games because they look like crap?!? Why sweat the small stuff, play your games and try not to focus on having every single bloody variable perfect, it never will be. My hands sweat too much when I play games, oh no, its not a perfect gaming experience.

:rolleyes:
 
Interesting... The last part with locking the vsync at 100hz but only running CS at 60fps doesn't quite make sense to me, but I'm sure it's me not quite wrapping my brain around it.

So really, even if your CRT is only refreshing at 100hz, then you're not going to be seeing your 200 fps either? So what we should really be doing is adjusting our graphics settings so that we are getting approximately the same fps as our refresh rate because any more are just wasted?

Personally, 60 fps is fine for me, but I wouldn't necessarily consider myself a hardcore gamer.
 
Lord Twilight said:
Interesting... The last part with locking the vsync at 100hz but only running CS at 60fps doesn't quite make sense to me, but I'm sure it's me not quite wrapping my brain around it.

So really, even if your CRT is only refreshing at 100hz, then you're not going to be seeing your 200 fps either? So what we should really be doing is adjusting our graphics settings so that we are getting approximately the same fps as our refresh rate because any more are just wasted?

Personally, 60 fps is fine for me, but I wouldn't necessarily consider myself a hardcore gamer.

i was under the impression this is exactly what Vsync does..

if you don't reach the 100fps of the 100hz refresh rate.. then it halfs your fps to 50.. the whole point of the Vsync i thought was to avoid the issues with being out of sync of the refresh rate.

an interesting thing would be to see if the same ghosting on the CRT is seen if you manually set the max referesh rate to 50 instead of 60..
 
yawn.. all my games play great for me on my 2005fpw and my vp191b. i have yet to notice any issue with either monitor playing games or for anything for that matter. if you are happy playing games on crts then more power to you. for me i will never go back to those big bulky 80s technology crap boxes.
 
docwonder good informative post... ignore these f4nb0ys

The problem comes into play here is... there are 2 kinds of gamers:

The kind that comes home from work or school and goes on the computer for a bit, loads up their favorite(at the time) game (may not even be an fps game) and plays it for a bit, doesnt take it too seriously and generally plays for fun nothing more.

Then there is the second type of gamer. The kind that generally has been playing fast paced action games, be it quake3 or counterstrike for years (yes even with outdated graphics) They play these games at the utmost garbage settings (lowest res or lower res) with everything and i mean absolutely everything turned off or to its lowest in order to ensure that the framerate remains at a constant and NEVER ever ever even considerers dropping below 125fps constant. ( you think im kidding but I'm not )

THe thing is to your first kind of gamer, they will never know why or even understand why there is a need to play a game at 125fps with your monitor at 125hz.
The main difference is the type 2 gamer doesnt care about pretty graphics... they play for the compeditiveness and well (the sportslike aspect) of playing these types of games. About the refresh rate.../mouse / fps thing... you either notice the difference or you dont. But denying that its not there is stupid and ignorant. for instance I visited my parents place today and went to use their computer to check some mail. I imediately noticed the 70hz response time of the CRT they were using - I upped it to 100hz and asked my mom if she noticed an improvment. She could not notice the difference. Anyway I think this is a very good informative post. And I can attest that its pretty much hitting the nail on the head as far as it goes for LCD's and CRT's for fast(very fast) paced games.

Generally for 90% of most games out there most wouldnt have an issue with the 60hz response times... its the really hardcore gamers that will notice and spend days even weeks tweaking their mouse settings in order to perform at the most optimal way possible.

Oh and by the way... I'm comming from a CRT point of view, and I have a dell 2405 on order ( will i be disappointed? probably not, i dont take first person shooter games as sersiously as I used to )
 
Old argument, subjective opinion. When I was a kid before I could afford a nice LCD I used to be the biggest proponent against their use. Now I never want to use a CRT again after owning a 2405. My next TV will be an LCD.
 
Love my Trinitron can't beat the graphics and durability, got it cheap too $55 with 6month warranty... :D
 
Love my G520P CRT and have a 24" Widescreen CRT (Sony FW900) on the way next week.

I had a 2001FP running next to my CRT for a few weeks and can tell you it could NOT compete with it as a gaming monitor ..also the black levels were a washed out mess, If I were wanting a display mainly for Text / Office work then I'd go LCD, but for Gaming & Movies nothing beats a high end CRT.
 
p1130 at home for games. 100 hz @ 1600x1200x32!!!
19" samsung LCD for work at the office for text and brightness.

Ultimately it's just the fast twitch games that need this. My dorm roommate played Cs at 640x480 with everything turned off on a 19in high end viewsonic CRT @120 hz.

He spent hours tuning his mouse and settings. He was really fucking good but he had become a machine, the fun had gone out of it for him. It was a lot of tuning for an ugly game that relied on being able to program your muscles to twitch.
 
DocWonder said:
The truth behind why refresh rates DO matter


Let's start with a few facts:

LCD

Response time: 4ms-30+ms

Refresh rates: 60-75hz


CRT

Response time: 2ms or less

Refresh rate: 60-160hz (depends on the quality of your monitor and resolution you're using)


Goal of this article: 1) To explain why LCD is limited in its capability at showing fast moving frames (ie. blurring and ghosting in first person shooter games) 2) Demonstrate a way people with CRT monitors can replicate LCD faults.


We'll begin with a discussion on how response times, refresh rates, and frames per second relate.
Response time is the measure of time for a pixel to change from grey to grey or black to white (depends on manufacturer's marketing department on which is the better number). In other words, response time tells you how fast the screen can show you a new image. Taking that into account, using a little math, we can calculate the maximum number of frames per second a given response time can handle. CRT monitors, for all intents and purposes, have a negligible response time, therefore allows a theoretical max fps of 500fps. This means that the response time will never be a bottleneck for the CRT monitor. LCDs on the otherhand are affected by slow response times and do play a factor in FPS output. For example, a theoretical 12ms response time is able to update the screen 83.333 times in 1 second.

Math: 1 second / .012 seconds = 83.3333 max frames per second


Refresh rate is the number of times a monitor draws or updates/refreshes the screen per second. Refresh rate is calculated in hertz. To put it simply, we can also consider refresh rate in terms of frames per second. Therefore, a refresh rate of 100hz will allow for a maximum 100 frames per second to be seen. And you can then follow a 60hz refresh rate means a maximum of 60 frames per second. The refresh rate is dictated by the type of graphics card you use but limited by the monitor in use. So if you set a refresh rate that the monitor doesn't support, the screen will go blank or you'll cause damage to the screen.

Math: 60hz = 60 max frames per second


Frames per second is the measure of frames being drawn per second. Usually this term is used in reference to video cards and games. Today's graphics cards can pump out frames per second in the hundreds for some game titles. The more frames per second potentiates a smoother appearance while playing a game. As you may have noted by now, three main factors affect the ultimate performance of how many frames you ACTUALLY observe... the response time, refresh rate, and the graphics card. So its easy to see how even though your graphics card may be reporting 300fps in a game, you're observed fps is actually a lot lower. The Observed frame per second is limited by the weakest of the three factors.


Now, we can appropriately discuss the LCD's weaknesses in fast pace games. When LCDs first came out for consumer use, it was common to see response times of 30+ms or greater... that calculates to a horrible 33.3 frames per second or less. Refresh rates were at 60hz and let's assume you had a video card that could push 100 fps with no problem. That means the response rate of the old lcds was the bottle neck. As any gamer knows, 33 frames per second is horrible to look at (for those of you who doubt this, we will replicate this on a crt monitor later in our discussion) So LCDs were not even an option for fast gaming then... but then...

Recently, the LCD market is being flooded with low reponse time monitors... 16ms, 12ms, 8ms... and yes even 4ms. Bare in mind these are all manufacturers BEST numbers, but for simplicity sake, we're gonna assume they truly perform that well.

Let's put down some figures: 16ms response time = 63 max frames per second
12ms response time = 83 max frames per second
8ms response time = 125 max frames per second
4ms response time = 250 max frames per second

Remember, we're assuming the manufacturer's have our best interest in mind and have advertised these numbers because they're true (cough, bs, cough).

If you have been following the discussion thus far, you will notice there is a HUGE discrepancy in response time and refresh rate. Yes, even though a 4ms response time will deliver a possible 250 frames per second, being capped with a refresh rate of 60 hz will limit your Observed frames per second to 60 frames per seond. Sure you're graphics card may be spittin out 250 frames/s, but the monitor is only asking for 60 of those frames... the rest of those frames your expensive graphics card spits out is wasted and ends up causing visual defects such as tearing (tearing is the phenomenon that occurs when the graphic cards out put exceeds the refresh rate of the monitor). Suggestions to fix tearing is to enable v-sync.... thereby limiting the graphics card output to match the refresh rate. In the case of a 60hz lcd, that means your monster graphics card is now outputtin 60 fps.

Bottom line is that the manufacturers have constantly improved the response times, but have not considered increasing the refresh rate. The improvement of response times serves more as a marketing tool, than actual performance gains. The 60hz refresh rate will limit any gains from response time... As far as I'm concerned, a LCD monitor that can deliver a mean 16ms response time will be able to perform optimally for a 60hz refresh rate... both will be able to deliver 60 frames per second.

At this time, some of you may be saying, "bah, refresh rate doesn't matter for lcd because there is no flickering. CRT's need higer refresh rates to counter flickering."

That is partly true... I agree. CRT's do need to achieve higer refresh rates to combat the potential flicker. CRT's phosphors light up and darken almost instantaneously... which results in flicker if the refresh rate is too low... at the same time this is CRT's advantage in response time. LCD's don't need to combat flicker, b/c it's pixels persist in an on state longer... they don't darken quickly... therefore no flicker. LCD pixels only change when told to do so. That's why using an LCD at 60hz has no flicker. LCDs are great for daily windows activities and stuff.

However when we get to fast pace games... LCDs fall apart. The limiting factor in many LCD panels today is the 60hz or 75hz refresh rate. The response time is become less and less of a factor in many cases. So many people disreguard the refresh rate, firmly believing that it just doesnt come to play in LCDs. And in most situations, that's true. But if you're a hardcore gamer, there is a difference between 60 fps, 85 fps, and 100 fps. Yes the eye can percieve greater than 30 fps... I'm not hear to argue that... you can google that yourself and find the truth. What I will do is allow some of you to replicate on a CRT how an LCD would look when playing your current games.

The setup:

Counter-strike 1.6 or CZ
Graphics card that can push an average 100 fps in CS
CRT monitor set at a refresh rate of 100 hz
Enable v-sync always on in display properties


1) Start CS
2) Go into console
3) enter the command fps_max 100 (this will set CS to allow a max of 100 fps)
4) enter the command net_graph 3 (this will allow you to see the fps)
5) Start playing, run around and move the mouse around... observer the fluidity of the movement.

6) now, enter the command fps_max 60 (this will simulate a refresh rate of 60hz of a LCD, your CRT monitor should still have a refresh rate of 100hz, meaning it will draw 100 frames per second on your screen... even if they're redundant frames due to a 60 hz cap)

7) You should immediately see a difference... it will appear blurry when you move. That's because now you're only updating at 60 frames per second, just like a LCD with 60 hz refresh rate. The 100hz of the crt monitor will ensure that there is no flickering... it essentially simulates the appearance of an LCD screens lack of flickering.


Well, that concludes this discussion. Hope this helps.

running a dell 2005fpw. and I'll still own you in CS:S.
 
Yup going from CRT > 2005fpw I definitely noticed ghosting. You are probably still bad in your fps games anyway with your beloved crt.
 
Yawn...what was all that about?
I love my sleek and sexy LCD. Sure there are some compromises, but I for one do not miss the days of hulking CRTs.
 
i dont care about CRT anymore.. i'm having fun w/ LCD and that's all it matters.. that's your opinion Doc... and my opinion is valid as much as yours.
 
Are you people 12 years old? Honestly..


Doc was not saying in his argument that lcds = crap. All he was doing was explaining the differences and current issues that plague any lcd display for certain groups of gamers and certain people who can and do notice these things. I thought it was good to take the time to write out a detailed explanation and comparison to help other people who dont know any better or aren't sure "why" crts are better for games. And please cut it out with the e-peen BS... that really shows your age.
 
i used to hate lcd's back in their humble beginnings since i had a new 15 inch lcd sony flat panel back in 2001 and the response was so freaking slow i almost gave up on the thought of ever going to lcd again, fast forward 4 years i have a 2005fpw and to my satisfaction it plays games fluidly and enough for me not to look back at a crt again since these things will replace crts sooner or later im thinking 4 more years and the response is about even with a monitor.
 
Doc you joined the fourm on Sept. 2005 to post this. :). Todays LCD monitor is the clear winner over the CRT in the long run.
 
computerdude said:
Love my Trinitron can't beat the graphics and durability, got it cheap too $55 with 6month warranty... :D

yep i got a nice sony g200. been using it for 5+ years now and i cant see it showing any sign of weakness yet. but god damn it weighs a tonne!
 
swerve said:
Are you people 12 years old? Honestly..


Doc was not saying in his argument that lcds = crap. All he was doing was explaining the differences and current issues that plague any lcd display for certain groups of gamers and certain people who can and do notice these things. I thought it was good to take the time to write out a detailed explanation and comparison to help other people who dont know any better or aren't sure "why" crts are better for games. And please cut it out with the e-peen BS... that really shows your age.

When you state the current issues that "plague" any lcd displays is a very opionated (SP?) statement and could be construed as saying that lcds = crap, at the very least it's stating in a very bias manner. So debating that LCD are just a good as CRT when it comes to gaming isn't showing anybody age, but what side of the fence they are on.
 
Are there in 30in CRTs that support 1080i/1080p/720p?

1900*1200? 2560*1600 (or w/e it is)?
 
I guess its a good thing that 75% of the time I don't play games on my computer. LCD is doing just fine for me.

Err..once I get it back from RMA that is. ;)
 
I really don't get it, why is it necessary go over lcd-vs-crt debate over, and over, and over again. I think it's quite clear for both sides of the argument that no reasons are good enough for switching. Why don't you ppl drop this issue already, it's much more a matter of taste rather than any 'tangible' difference in technology :D
 
Pepster64 said:
When you state the current issues that "plague" any lcd displays is a very opionated (SP?) statement and could be construed as saying that lcds = crap, at the very least it's stating in a very bias manner. So debating that LCD are just a good as CRT when it comes to gaming isn't showing anybody age, but what side of the fence they are on.


Plague is a strong word, but lets not be in denial here, to the hardcore gaming bunch there is a noticable difference be in in quake 3 or cs (insert fast paced fps) with the 2 types of monitors. Saying said person does not notice said difference or does not care about the difference doesn't change the fact that it still exists.

My statment is far from biased, it is honest and realistic. Let me remind you I have an LCD on order, I wouldnt have ordered it if I LCD's weren't "good".

As for debateing lcd vs crt for games, im not here to do that, and neither is the OP since that is very subjective. Instead scroll up and re-read his objective, might give you a better idea of what his intentions were. The age remark was aimed at the e-peen ego driven ahem.. well you get the idea.
 
I just switched today from a 21" Trinitron CRT (Compaq P1100) to a 19" LG LCD (L1980Q). I used my trusty trinitron for about 3 years. I was a hardcore CS player for quite some time, and this monitor definitely got the job done.

Today I took the plunge, because I got tired of only having a laptop at school. I didn't want to lug a 75lb monitor to my dorm, so I went shopping.

Let me say this... the pros of an LCD far outweigh the potential cons mentioned in this article. I've been playing CS for 5 years, so I know what the game is supposed to feel like. I hopped right into CS when I got home, and it was simply fantastic. Not only was the game crisper looking thanks to the DVI input, there was zero ghosting. The colors are also amazing compared to my old CRT. I used a 120hz refresh rate on my CRT for gaming, I'm now using 75hz. It honestly feels the same, but looks even better. I haven't tried any games with eye candy yet, I'm sure those are going to look even more amazing.

Simply put, I'm selling my 21" Trinitron with no regrets.

-Matt
 
i replaced a 19" trinitron (dell) monitor with a 2405fpw and i notice dragging far more in film than in actual gameplay. As far as im concerned whats gonna make a difference in cs is how good you aim not how good your monitor is, the most blurring is going to cause is you to miss by maybe a pixel and odds are if you are that close to missing 9 out of 10 times you are gonna miss anyways.

I think tis a big issue for sure and a couple years ago i probably would have agreed but being a person who uses an lcd for gaming pretty constantly the difference is minimal and although you can notice it the real world difference is pretty minimal.
 
wow, yeah that was pretty much a waste of time to read. I lost 7 minutes of my life reading all that. give them back. that was 7 minutes spent not looking at another more helpful thread. another 7 minutes lost not play BF2 or CSS. now I shall waste 15 minutes typing all this. I can understand that there are people who just love things to be extremely higher than something else, but this is just me.......and a couple of other 10,000,000 people who have LCDs.
think, sometimes you do not really need 100 frames per second on your pc, cause the human eye only sees 30 ON A MONITOR USING LIGHTED PIXELS. in real life the human eyes can actually see their phsical enviroment in more than 200 FPS, but its how its presented. I don't feel like going in depth on it.
then there is repsonse time to your CRTs, who sees that problem? that is so random to have to talk about that, you are not going to die because of a 5ms response time, you still can't see that. ghosting, ok, sometimes that will just barely get annoying, but LCDs make up for that by no haveing to bother with all the other things, CRTs are big and fat, and heavy and bulky, LCD's are slim and take up less real estate. there is no degaussing involved. they are way sharper than CRTs. tell me, if you want to mount a CRT to a wall, how much work is involved? damn, a huge wall mount stand, some support beams need to be found, alot of screws need to be used so theCRT doesn't come crashing down onto you. a big strap to hold the CRT in place, about $70 later and maybe an injury or 2 you're done. But when an LCD comes along, a small frame and 6 screws and $8 later there you go, a wall mounted LCD.
lets keep going. what about eye strain? did you know crts will put strain on your eyes, yet LCDs are almost perfect and leave no strain. CRT's give you headaches, when I used to work with CRT's I would get headaches. when I got my Veiwsonic LCD, no more for me. what about common problems? the only real problems you will ussually find on LCDs are dead pixels. and if you get too many warranty replaces, or you can use that little trick that does work to restore them CRTs however, can have so many problems. discoloration, incompatability, annoying lines, screwed up magnets, if they get too old they start getting darker. some CRTs tend to "vibrate" in the screen causing everything to look like shockwaves. CRTs and glare? light reflects off a CRT like a MOFO unless it's flatscreen, but even then there is still annoying light reflection. LCDs reflect nothing. Lets talk about power! damn, CRT's draw ALOT more power than LCDs. as long as LCDs can get some light and some a little spare electricity, it practically does the rest itself. A CRT practiacally has a powerplant working inside of it. hell if there were a way to use all that power stored in a CRT when its switched off I and unplugged I could power my sump pump. It has enough running through it to jumpstart a car.
CRT's are more likely to kill you than LCDs. think about all the things LCDs make up for that tiny unimportant response time you speak of, or that small but barely annoying ghosting.
 
what's the pt. of this thread? News Flash:

They don't make monitor in CRT bigger than 24" or 30". We'll all going to move to that size.

Even the Sony 24" CRT is only 22 - 23" in diagonal. Not to mention to position that monitor requires chiro. adjustment on your lower back the next day.

w/ a LCD, say a 23" to 30", once I'm done w/ it, I can swing it out w/ the robot arm, and watch the TV in front of me. Can you do that to a 24" CRT Sony monitor?

News Flash-- desktop real estate is getting expensive, that gigantic hockey plug is getting in the way :D
 
Matt126 said:
I just switched today from a 21" Trinitron CRT (Compaq P1100) to a 19" LG LCD (L1980Q). I used my trusty trinitron for about 3 years. I was a hardcore CS player for quite some time, and this monitor definitely got the job done.

Today I took the plunge, because I got tired of only having a laptop at school. I didn't want to lug a 75lb monitor to my dorm, so I went shopping.

Let me say this... the pros of an LCD far outweigh the potential cons mentioned in this article. I've been playing CS for 5 years, so I know what the game is supposed to feel like. I hopped right into CS when I got home, and it was simply fantastic. Not only was the game crisper looking thanks to the DVI input, there was zero ghosting. The colors are also amazing compared to my old CRT. I used a 120hz refresh rate on my CRT for gaming, I'm now using 75hz. It honestly feels the same, but looks even better. I haven't tried any games with eye candy yet, I'm sure those are going to look even more amazing.

Simply put, I'm selling my 21" Trinitron with no regrets.

-Matt


hi i'm using that same monitor as well, the p1100. its a great monitor but i was looking at getting the 2405fpw. i was worried about backlighting and ghosting. you really like your lcd better?
 
oh I forgot to mention, don't worry about how LCD's perform now, its how they are performing in the futer, you need to realize that LCD's are still a new thing compared to how long the CRT have hadtime to have R&D (research and development) done to them. LCDs are alway being released in new models with better quality. think about how much more LCDs will OWN CRTs in the future. because they are always improving them. and here they are starting to already go down in price. and also
Happy Hopping said:
They don't make monitor in CRT bigger than 24" or 30". We'll all going to move to that size.
my cousin has a 30" CRT, and it is so crappy, and it is HUGE, he had to get a another desk to put it on there. I think even 30" on an LCD I think is the limit then that means you need to start sitting farther back from it so you can see whats going on.
 
Sorry, but your CRT can't hold a candle to my 2405 bud.

My old Hyundai L90D+ vs Dell 2405FPW. Complete ownpage
compare228mr.jpg


Far Cry in Widescreen. Need I say more?
farcry5ru.jpg


Dell 2005 vs 2405
2005vs24055yk.jpg


BTW: Thats 21" Sony Trinitron monitor next to the 2405. End of discussion.
img03964bx.jpg
 
I think the main point of this thread was that CRT is better for gaming , this doesnt mean LCD is 'crappy' ... the person that posted the pic below has both the 24" Widescreen Sony CRT and 2405FPW and says he prefers gaming on the CRT. Kind of hard to argue the fact considering LCD's weaknesses vs. CRT.

2405-02s.JPG
 
A worthwhile post. Let me summarize my feelings:
I have a NEC 2141sb 22" crt
CRT -
Better for gaming - No question since you can adjust the resolution without ill effects. Also the response time is much faster giving the user a no blur with fast moving objects. There is not question in my mind about these facts.

LCD -
LCDs have a different look. They are brighter and give a bright crisper image. The look cool. They are not as heavy and fit on the desk much better. LCDs are limited because they look best at the default resolution. This means a more expensive graphics card may be needed. Lcds are not as good for dvds becuase of this issue too. Use for photography might not be as good either.

All that said I love my crt but I am thinking about getting an lcd because of the cool factor and the amount of real estate it takes up. There are advantages and disadvantages. It all depends on what the user wants.
 
xxBlackCrossxx said:
hi i'm using that same monitor as well, the p1100. its a great monitor but i was looking at getting the 2405fpw. i was worried about backlighting and ghosting. you really like your lcd better?

so far, yes. I have zero complaints about this LCD. It feels identical but looks so much better. I can't promise you it will be the same on any other LCD, afterall I did spend a pretty penny on this monitor.

-Matt
 
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