Why is the mac UI better?

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Frangible

Limp Gawd
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I've seen frequent posts about why the Mac UI is better, more effecient, and lets you work faster. Why? I've never heard anything to back this up.

I use Windows for file management and to launch programs. I can launch programs and manage files very quickly with it. You can even hotkey program launching if that's your thing. I don't find Windows to be hard to use. Hell, Windows XP hasn't even crashed on me. Ever.

So, help cure my PC ignorance. Exactly what is better about the Mac specifically and why?
 
Because you only have one mouse button, having two just confuses people and slows them down.. :p (Mac's actually can use many mouse buttons just fine, but the mouse they ship with only has one)

Actually, OSX is a very clean interface, quick to navigate and simple to use. Personally I am a Windows user, but when Grandpa or Auntie askes me what computer to buy, I recommend a Mac because I will never have to go over there to teach them how to use it. (it is simple enough that Apple feels it doesn't even need a tutorial)

==>Lazn
 
I always recommend Macs for my relatives actually... just because they can't/won't secure their box and do spyware/virus removal. I've seen what happens to a Windows box when the person doesn't care of it... shocking. Hook them up with a Mac and Firefox though and I don't think they'll be having any problems. (besides, I hate fixing people's computers :p )
 
Lazn_Work said:
(Mac's actually can use many mouse buttons just fine, but the mouse they ship with only has one)
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not true in my experience... os/10 running on an imac (1st release) and 3-button mouse. it would think you were clicking the same button no matter which you pressed. :LOL: it was kinda funny.
 
starhawk said:
not true in my experience... os/10 running on an imac (1st release) and 3-button mouse. it would think you were clicking the same button no matter which you pressed. :LOL: it was kinda funny.
Click to expand...

that is funny, but it's definintely fixed now. I use 10.2 with a logitech mx300 mouse (scroll, three buttons, optical) and it works just fine.
 
It's the small things that make the interface so much easier and more efficient in OS X. The fact that the menus are always in the same place, no matter what size the window is (think File, Edit, etc) Motor memory builds up so that you don't even have to look to click a menu, just throw the mouse in the general direction and by the time you look at it, you've already clicked. Things always work the same way, too. Think about all the different things click & drag does in Windows. In OS X, it does the same thing, no matter what app you're in. (Unless you're talking about the dock, but it's built more for the wow factor than the ease-of-use factor, IMO). Maximizing a window maximizes it to fit the data displayed in it, instead of just filling up the whole screen. Closing a document doesn't close the app the document is open in, which took some getting used to but really makes more sense. Lots of little things like that.

Check out Apple's HIG and you'll see a lot of the things they pay attention to. http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/index.html

Also, Expose is fantastic. It's amazing how much more efficient it makes you once you really start to use it, and how difficult it is to work without it in Windows.
 
i'll second expose, it's so intuitive, or small things like apple shift 4, the little stuff that winbloz doesn't offer because it doesn't cater to an audience that is prodimiantly college educated, wealthier and artsy fartsy. Go use a mac for a week and you'll understand.

-esr
 
It's all the little things. And a few major ones, too. I'm sure we all agree that drag-and-drop is an integral part of having a graphical user interface. Windows' support for it is almost laughable when you compare it to Mac OS X's. Apple actually have human interface guidelines, and most developers follow them to a some extent. The keyboard shortcuts do the same in most applications, and generally what you would expect them to do. Instead of utterly wasting keyboard space on a Windows key, it has a very logical system of controller and modifier keys. Etc etc etc.
 
People like the way the icons bounce in the dock........
The UI is pretty nice. It is clean cut and overall pretty easy to use.
 
esr2 said:
i'll second expose, it's so intuitive, or small things like apple shift 4, the little stuff that winbloz doesn't offer because it doesn't cater to an audience that is prodimiantly college educated, wealthier and artsy fartsy. Go use a mac for a week and you'll understand.

-esr
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that Windows is pretty much kicking ass in the corporate sector, which is FILLED with college-educated, wealthy people. I'm not gonna argue with the artsy-fartsy part.
 
Frangible said:
I've seen frequent posts about why the Mac UI is better, more effecient, and lets you work faster. Why? I've never heard anything to back this up.

I use Windows for file management and to launch programs. I can launch programs and manage files very quickly with it. You can even hotkey program launching if that's your thing. I don't find Windows to be hard to use. Hell, Windows XP hasn't even crashed on me. Ever.

So, help cure my PC ignorance. Exactly what is better about the Mac specifically and why?
Click to expand...
One word.


Opinion.

THe fact is.. - If you *really* want the mac UI, you can have it ON a windows machine. :)
 
Apple has been doing Human Interface research/work for over 25 years.

This work forms the basis of the
HIG (Human Interface Guidelines).

Here's some more info on HI stuff @ Apple.

http://home.san.rr.com/deans/lisagui.html
http://www.pliant.org/personal/Tom_Erickson/AHA.html
http://www.computerhistory.org/events/lectures/appleint_10281997/appleint_xscript.shtml
http://www.cs.trinity.edu/~jhowland/cs3394.hci/hci1/hci1.html
http://www.isii.com/ui_design.html

See this stuff isn't just eye candy fluff, it's a science.

Jakob Neilsen is one of the top user interfacer/usability experts on the planet. I was at a conference where he spoke. During the Q&A somebody asked him what computer he used - Apple Powerbook.

Of course in a society where everybody is going to use a computer anyway the value of it being simple is maybe questionable. I mean it's a necessary skill and like driving you wanna play the game you need to learn how it's done.
 
Laforge said:
THe fact is.. - If you *really* want the mac UI, you can have it ON a windows machine. :)
Click to expand...

I don't think a painfully slow emulation counts. ;)


Of course in a society where everybody is going to use a computer anyway the value of it being simple is maybe questionable. I mean it's a necessary skill and like driving you wanna play the game you need to learn how it's done.
Click to expand...

I'd say that makes it more important! And it's not only about it being, or easy for a beginner, it's about it being efficient for the experienced user. I'm fairly good with computers, and I have no problems using them. But the reason I prefer Mac is that the time I spend actually reading things online compared to the total time browsing is much greater than on, say, Windows, because the UI is more efficient, especially for somebody who's experienced. Less time organizing windows, less time finding the right one, less time finding the right tab, etc etc etc etc. Windows XP is actually fairly easy for the computer ignorant, since they have wizards for precisely everything (no, Paul Thurrot, wizards are not "intuitive," they're just fairly easy to understand for the novice). But it is so horribly inefficient. It gets in the way more than it helps.

Oh, and imagine that you're driving a car (oh dear, another car analogy...) and suddenly, without you even noticing at first, the steering wheel has been replaced with something else, sending you right off the road, or into somebody else. Just like dialog windows can just pop up and steal input focus from the primary window in Windows. I've had that happen plenty of times. I'm sitting there, typing away while looking at some printed document, and suddenly something wants something and pops up. I can no longer add text to Word without manually changing focus back to the Word document, and as soon as I hit space bar, I can actually accidentally tell the computer to do something I really didn't want it to. Argh. Give me a bouncing icon on the Dock any day of the week! ;)
 
Whta does Apple Shift 4 do? Haven't got my Powerbook to hand :)

Personally I like hitting shift and then F9 for expose in super slow mo!
 
adamfelker said:
Keep in mind that Windows is pretty much kicking ass in the corporate sector, which is FILLED with college-educated, wealthy people. I'm not gonna argue with the artsy-fartsy part.
Click to expand...

its kicking the corporate ass. god bless IT departments.
 
I'd have to go with opinion on this as well.

Personally, I find OS X to be a much friendlier interface compared to Windows. (And I've been on Windows for a very long time. pre-3.0 days I'm talking)
Though XP (and longhorn) is beginning to close that gap dramatically.

There is always room for improvement on either side of the fence.

For one, I can't stand the way either OS handles new windows.

Steal my focus? Sure, go right ahead. Never mind that I am typing a complex piece of code or trying to rail that n00b spawn camper.

They should at least be smart enough to detect UI activity in another window and gracefully open in the background, with a visual / audible notification that the window has completed its creation cycle and is ready to be used.
 
I use both all the time, and I actually prefer Windows. Just a matter of tastes I guess. I generally seem to go about things faster in Windows.

Heh, you know what one of my biggest gripes about Mac OS is?

Why the heck can I not resize windows from any side of the windows. Sometimes with Mac OS when I try getting my windows all in the places I want, I feel that I'm playing Tetris!

My other main gripe is no quick keyboard only way to launch some of the less used applications. I.E on windows if I want to run Calc I just hit "Windows+R", type calc, and hit enter. Very quick. I don't use them enough to warrent putting them on my quick launch tool bar, but I hate looking for them when I do.
On Mac OS I am unaware of a quick way to launch the calculator or the terminal. I either have to browse for it or do a find and type the name in.

Of course I am a weirdo in that I like tons of thing stored in a clear and organized heirarchy. (IE, I install my games at home on "G:\games\%type of game%\%developer%\%gametitle%, and I organized my Start/Programs menu similar to that).

Mac OS is a nice OS, and I wish it's multi user (I hate how nearly ever Windows application requires the user to have administrator or power user rights, Mac OS seems to have applications written to realize not everyone should be an admin) and font handling was as good in windows.

Just use both and decide which one you work best with.
 
^^^

download launchbar.

and with Windows it is a pain in the ass to get all your windows the way you want them, but with OSX, you dont need to waste time with all that garbage, just use expose.
 
What I do, in both OSX and Windows, is create a folder and put it on my dock and my start bar. I keep aliases/shortcuts to all of those programs that I use every once and a while, but not enough to clutter up my dock or quick launch bar. It works well, especially since I can do the same thing on both operating systems.
 
Garage81 said:
^^^

download launchbar.
Click to expand...

Or QuickSilver. You won't even have to launch the Terminal or Calculator then! ;)

Just hit cmd space (or whatever) and type (period) and the calculator or shell command, hit tab and type ca for calculate or sc for execute script. Get the results immediately. ;)
 
Black Morty Rackham said:
I don't think a painfully slow emulation counts. ;)
Click to expand...
I wouldn't call styleXP + objectdock a painfully slow emulation.

In fact, I'd call it a full speed operating environment

You assume I meant something ghey like "mac-in-windows" or something

I didn't say "if you want to run mac programs" I said "if you want a mac GUI"
 
thats not a mac gui. i wouldnt even call that a mac desktop.

gui's go deeper than the desktop dude,
 
esr2 said:
i'll second expose, it's so intuitive, or small things like apple shift 4, the little stuff that winbloz doesn't offer because it doesn't cater to an audience that is prodimiantly college educated, wealthier and artsy fartsy. Go use a mac for a week and you'll understand.

-esr
Click to expand...

lol

and people wonder why most mac users are looked upon as elitist pricks
 
TheGeneral said:
lol

and people wonder why most mac users are looked upon as elitist pricks
Click to expand...


People, keep it civil.

this is your ONLY warning.
 
Just to touch on why some Mac users are so pro Mac and Anti Windows. Not every Mac user for sure, but for some I read this article Overclockers.com that explained it to me: http://www.overclockers.com/tips00704/

"For PCers, a computer is a tool, an animated screwdriver. You don't have an "experience" with a screwdriver." (that's me for sure)

"For Macsters, it's just the opposite. The object is an extension of themselves just as much as their clothing or interior decoration, it's a part of them in a way a PC never is for a PCer."

"For such people, telling them that a Dell is cheaper and better is like telling them that Old Navy overalls are cheaper and last longer than Dolce & Gabbana jeans. When you do that, what they hear is, "Be a common pig like the rest of us" when the whole point of the purchase is to prove the opposite."

==>Lazn
 
TheGeneral said:
lol

and people wonder why most mac users are looked upon as elitist pricks
Click to expand...


...By a handful of pc users who have nothing better to do.
Honestly, most of the people I know could not care less what computer I use.
Funny, I guess we all are elitist if we use what works best for us.
I't will never be elitist to stay gray with the masses, so I guess I will always be elitist....
:D

CN
 
A computer is just a tool, and this is coming from a true-blooded Mac-nerd who has been that since 1991. However, it is the most complex tool in existance, and many of us spend hours each day using it. Many of us wouldn't even be able to work without a computer. So the way it works is important.

The "it's just a computer, there's nothing I can't do with a PC that I can do with a Mac" attitude seems a lot like the "it's just music, it doesn't matter that it's 96kbps MP3, you still hear the same music" attitude. ;)

If you really do prefer Windows, or whatever, go ahead and use that. But when people say it doesn't matter, of course Mac-nerds are going to get irritated. Just like I get irritated when people say it doesn't matter which red wine you buy, they all taste the same... ;)


Oh, and LaForge, a few skins and a Dock does not a Mac make.
 
Black Morty Rackham said:
A computer is just a tool, and this is coming from a true-blooded Mac-nerd who has been that since 1991. However, it is the most complex tool in existance, and many of us spend hours each day using it. Many of us wouldn't even be able to work without a computer. So the way it works is important.

The "it's just a computer, there's nothing I can't do with a PC that I can do with a Mac" attitude seems a lot like the "it's just music, it doesn't matter that it's 96kbps MP3, you still hear the same music" attitude. ;)

If you really do prefer Windows, or whatever, go ahead and use that. But when people say it doesn't matter, of course Mac-nerds are going to get irritated. Just like I get irritated when people say it doesn't matter which red wine you buy, they all taste the same... ;)


Oh, and LaForge, a few skins and a Dock does not a Mac make.
Click to expand...

Heck my job is keeping about 350 of them running + the network 6 servers and 11 T1's. All windows comptuers I must say (2000 or XP). We did have some Mac labs but phased them out.

Personally, I still just see a computer as a tool, it doesn't define who I am as a person, any more than what brand wrench I use to fix my car.

I don't have anything against either Macs or PC's, both do the job fine. And actually the newer PC's are more stable, more reliable, and easier to fix when things do break than the Mac's they replaced.. However the Macs were running 9.x not osX so it is no longer a valid comparison. (and this with 5-18 yr olds beating on them daily)

==>Lazn
 
The whole Mac vs PC thing is really annoying IMO. I prefer the Windows UI, but I don't look down on Mac users or any other platform users. They are just tools that work slightly different and in some cases one is better, and in another case the opposite is true.

Think of it as the difference between a Phillips head screw driver and Torx head screwdriver. They function the same, but do best when use for what they were designed for.

I tend to stay out of it since I admin Windows, Linux (on x86), Mac OS 10 (and OS9 on a legacy software support machine), Sun Solaris (UltraSparc), and previously Windows on Alpha. To me they all are computers. The idea of how one works carries over to the others. A couple of the Mac users sometimes try to start arguments with me about how superiour their Mac is, but I just ignore them. We use what is cheapest and easiest to make money with. That is the bottom line.
 
i use both daily......i dont own a MAC but i do alot of photoshop/illustrator/quark work at school and the MAC is definitley better for that...but for web browsing and gaming its the PC all the way for me....altough i LOVE the gui (just the dock, menu bar and that stuff....not much else)

its a toss up for me. id love to get a mac for my house but i want to keep my PC too...
 
One thing I noticed regarding applications like Quark, Photoshop, InDesign, PageMaker, and font management apps, is that many time it seems that Mac version has more features and is layed-out better. It is not much of a platform thing as an application thing. However, because of that, the Mac does usually work a bit better at those tasks. I probably wont ever have a Mac at home unless it becomes the primary platform that has all of the games and apps I use.

Really this extends beyond Mac vs. Windows. I've seen some Linux guys talk crap about both, and vis-a-versa. Of course I've seen smack talking between Unix and Linux guys before too.

If you take all of the comments and remove the technical details you could use it as a template for AMD vs. Intel, Ford vs. Chevy, or Import vs. Domestic, Democrat vs Republican, etc, etc, etc.

As for reliability I took a quick look at my logs for the last year:
Overall hardware was a tie, software the Mac was 4 trouble calls higher than Windows (with less than half the machines, but very similar actual hours of usage), and a tie on virus/spyware (no actual infections or problems, but a few calls each to investigate suspicious files).

Really outside of the CPU, Mobo, Software, there isn't much that differenciates the different platforms. The biggest hardware issue was hard drive failures.
 
pc for games, Mac for everything else.

tho I am a hair away from dumping my PC on ebay ( in parts ) games are not that interesting to me anymore. I'd like to try my hand at making some TV commercials for the 2006 and 2008 political races and as such need to learn FCP and Flash.

I still have to say a dual 2.5 G5 with a X800 or a 6800 would *practically speaking* take a back seat to no pc. Once you get above 100 or so fps, it's all semantics. A "my johnson is bigger than your johnson" argument.

All things considered, I'll take the G5 and have everything the environment offers me instead of a extra 100 fps in some game. I'm the winna in that bargain.
 
and people wonder why most mac users are looked upon as elitist pricks
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yay, ignorance, fun. well i'd rather be a prick then an ignorant fool. i do love though, how contributing to pc threads for years here, writing reviews of products for the pc which are linked directly from the likes of antec, and generally building pcs for a decade and beta testing back to the Chicago test are all overlooked simply because i own an apple (in addition to several pcs) and am tired of people ASKING to be converted. if you want to go to a different platform that's a PERSONAL choice which, gasp, may be most adequately realized through, drum roll here, PERSONAL experience.

elitest? no. but do continue to scorn us for buying quality merchandise, it's great. next we'll hop over in the car threads and bag on porsche... it's owners are elitist too, and therefor prics, because most are educated and wealthy.

hey, go take a few economics and marketing classes, you may learn that products which cater to more exclusive, educated, wealthy audicences recieve more engineering and thought. it's amazing, i know, but may account for why people that drive porsches dont just go pic up a ford festiva.

So yeah, i'll continue to assert that products pandered to people with higher standers will be built better. when i see the majority of recording studios switching from pro-tools G5 rigs to adobe audition on p4s, i'll give you a call.

-esr
 
Selecter said:
pc for games, Mac for everything else.

tho I am a hair away from dumping my PC on ebay ( in parts ) games are not that interesting to me anymore. I'd like to try my hand at making some TV commercials for the 2006 and 2008 political races and as such need to learn FCP and Flash.

I still have to say a dual 2.5 G5 with a X800 or a 6800 would *practically speaking* take a back seat to no pc. Once you get above 100 or so fps, it's all semantics. A "my johnson is bigger than your johnson" argument.

All things considered, I'll take the G5 and have everything the environment offers me instead of a extra 100 fps in some game. I'm the winna in that bargain.
Click to expand...

It is not the 100fps that bothers me, it is that a Mac only gets about 5-10% of the games ported over to it, and of those they are not necessarily the ones I would want, or if they are they come out 3 months after the PC release.

For gaming there is no comparison, PC wins hands down, but not because of perfomance.
(PC gaming is a 6 Billion dollar a year industry, aguably bigger than Hollywood.. Mac gaming works at breaking even)

==>Lazn
 
Selecter said:
pc for games, Mac for everything else.

tho I am a hair away from dumping my PC on ebay ( in parts ) games are not that interesting to me anymore.

I still have to say a dual 2.5 G5 with a X800 or a 6800 would *practically speaking* take a back seat to no pc.
Click to expand...

This sounds exactly like me and my recent thoughts. The only game I am playing on the PC is WoW and I could do that on the Mac. I do game some on the PC but the only game I've cared about on PC over the last couple of years that's NOT on the Mac is Half-Life 2 and I think I can live without it...

B
 
yeah, thats why I administrate over 15,000 windows machines at the University of Minnesota, because noone there has any college education, and has never seen a dollar bill larger than a 50.

:rolleyes:

esr2 said:
i'll second expose, it's so intuitive, or small things like apple shift 4, the little stuff that winbloz doesn't offer because it doesn't cater to an audience that is prodimiantly college educated, wealthier and artsy fartsy. Go use a mac for a week and you'll understand.

-esr
Click to expand...
 
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