Why is Comcast set top box (non-X1) taking DAYS to reload the program guide? Coincidence that I just changed my cable modem?

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philb2

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In this recent thread, I discussed my experience with my new Arris T25 cable modem, including the fact that Internet download performance has improved. https://hardforum.com/threads/my-ne...h-loose-metal-inside.2018214/#post-1045307417

However, however, however, it is now about 41 hours since that new modem was activated, yet the the set top box program guide is still mostly incomplete. It used to take 3-4 hours to repopulate fully the program guide if I had to power down the set top box to fix a problem, when I had the old cable modem in service. With the new cable modem, with 8X the download speed, you might think that the program guide would get populated faster. It also took over 24 hours before Comcast On Demand (channel 1) would work.

If it matters, the old Motorola set top box failed about a month ago, and Comcast gave me a replacement Xfinity-branded RNG200N Motorola box. That box was working fine once installed, until the modem changeout a few days ago. Tp be clear I don't have X1 service, and I'm not really interested in getting it.

What is my next step? Does anyone have an unpublished phone number for Comcast second-level cable service support? So far, Comcast tech support has not helped very much. Too busy reading off scripts, I guess.
 
Have you tried rebooting the set top box? Maybe it's using the old routes from the old modem.
 
Yeah try rebooting everything to see if that resets it. I know when my mom got the new box, I had to reset it multiple times along with the modem to finally get everything working correctly.
 
Starfalcon

So far I have rebooted the cable modem and then the set-top box, but no improvement yet. It's been about six hours now and the Program Guide is most not populated with actual listings.

My wife is telling me to re-install the old, 100 Mbps cable modem. :confused:
 
philb2 said:
Starfalcon

So far I have rebooted the cable modem and then the set-top box, but no improvement yet. It's been about six hours now and the Program Guide is most not populated with actual listings.

My wife is telling me to re-install the old, 100 Mbps cable modem. :confused:
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Hmmm...well, your wife isn't wrong that it might solve the issue, which would be good to know because we know then it is something with the new setup. And if you install the old one and it doesn't work, that tells us something too and that it might not be anything to do with the modems, but something at the isp. I'd say, listen to your wife. :D
 
OK, after several reboots I (no choice) had to call Comcast again. As usual, the support person wasted my time with the same "resets" that don't seem to actually reset my set top box. So, I have a technician visit scheduled for Wednesday PM.

The support person felt that I needed an account credit to compensate me, a long time customer. Anyone care to guess the amount?
 
Probably a bad box, it happens. We've had tons of issues over the years - audio that occasionally quits, not loading the programming guide, not registering properly...

Surprised they didn't push you to use the app instead, the app is rough to navigate BTW
 
rhkcommander959 said:
Probably a bad box, it happens. We've had tons of issues over the years - audio that occasionally quits, not loading the programming guide, not registering properly...

Surprised they didn't push you to use the app instead, the app is rough to navigate BTW
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Agree about the app.

Funny thing is, the set top box was replaced about a month ago, when the old box failed. And, until the modem swapout, it worked fine. Go figure. (I had to explain to my wife that transferring her recordings would have required hacking both the old box and the new one, something that would take lots of time and would void any sort of warranty or right of exchange.)

I'll post again after the technician visit on Wednesday.
 
philb2 said:
Agree about the app.

Funny thing is, the set top box was replaced about a month ago, when the old box failed. And, until the modem swapout, it worked fine. Go figure. (I had to explain to my wife that transferring her recordings would have required hacking both the old box and the new one, something that would take lots of time and would void any sort of warranty or right of exchange.)

I'll post again after the technician visit on Wednesday.
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Good luck, ask the tech if they have a direct number you can call.

On the business side the techs don't like you to call the terrible comcast phone system because it logs issues in their districts, so they like to work more directly with the end customer because any issues logged count against them somehow. I don't know if it applies to residential, but it could save you a TON of time if the first tech visit doesn't resolve the issue.
 
Well, this saga never seems to end. Yesterday I got a voicemail asking me to call a Comcast number I didn't recognize. Turns out to second-level cable TV support. Two different techs (I got disconnected the first time) put me through the same BS with resetting the set top box remotely, powering it down, etc. They were apparently trying to avoid a truck roll. Finally I got really steamed and demanded that their technician come out to my house per my appointment. Again I was told that the set top box was "very old," and it almost sounded like a threat.

All this call accomplished was to make my wife really sore that the program guide has to be reloaded once again, and it's going slower than ever.

So I cleared my calendar for tomorrow in case the tech comes early or stays past 2 pm.
 
Doesn't the STB run on a separate band from the modem? Only time I had issues with the STB was when there was an issue upstream or...actually, I think that's it. Aside from that there's the usual suspects: bad splitters, unused ports that aren't terminated properly, a bad band pass filter, damaged cable/connector, or the box itself.
 
Nobu said:
Doesn't the STB run on a separate band from the modem?
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I believe you are right. I set up my cabling network years ago and I had think back about the details of splitters.

Nobu said:
Only time I had issues with the STB was when there was an issue upstream or...actually, I think that's it. Aside from that there's the usual suspects: bad splitters, unused ports that aren't terminated properly, a bad band pass filter, damaged cable/connector, or the box itself.
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All possible. Maybe it's a huge coincidence that the replacement STB started crapping out only when I replaced the cable modem and changed my service plan.

Tomorrow by this time I should be able to post something more specific, according to what the Comcast tech says and does.
 
If the tech visit doesn't fix the problem, call them back and have the problem ticket escalated to a Supervisor. That usually lights a fire under them to get the problem resolved quickly.

I would also call and have them check the billing codes on your account. It's quite possible that when you replaced the modem and changed your service plan your account was updated for X1 service. Just had this happen to my father-in-law. He added internet service to his plan (via the website) and was upgraded to a X1 set top box. He had a non-X1 STB previously that worked fine without internet service. My understanding is STBs use dedicated channels and don't use modems.

Your STB is very old. I would bite the bullet and move to X1. It's really not that much different than what you have now. Why do you require non-X1 equipment? X1 is their direction going forward. That may be why the technical support reps are unable to resolve the problem.
 
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AgrFan said:
If the tech visit doesn't fix the problem, call them back and have the problem ticket escalated to a Supervisor. That usually lights a fire under them to get the problem resolved quickly.

I would also call and have them check the billing codes on your account. It's quite possible that when you replaced the modem and changed your service plan your account was updated for X1 service. Just had this happen to my father-in-law. He added internet service to his plan (via the website) and was upgraded to a X1 set top box. He had a non-X1 STB previously that worked fine without internet service. My understanding is STBs use dedicated channels and don't use modems.
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Full report on the tech visit below. One comment he made was that we have features not available with X1, and they were working.

AgrFan said:
Your STB is very old. I would bite the bullet and move to X1. It's really not that much different than what you have now. Why do you require non-X1 equipment? X1 is their direction going forward. That may be why the technical support reps are unable to resolve the problem.
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The tech also said that. I don't like the idea that if the Internet goes down, we can't watched recorded programs. Also, I'm worried that we will incur extra charges for going beyond the default data limit each month.

OK, so the tech was here about 1 hour, 45 minutes. Very friendly, very knowledgeable. When he left, he gave me a card with the email address of his boss, so we could schedule another visit without going through the infernal call system.

First he replaced a short cable from the wall outlet to the upstairs cable box. Then he replaced the cable from a link point outside the house to the main comcast box on a telephone poll. That cable is at least 35 years old, and he found some jitter on that line. However, there was absolutely no issue with the cable plant from that link point to inside the house.

After he finished the cable installs, we turned on the set top box, which was reloading the program guide. On Demand was available. no delay in changing channels. He said to wait a few hours to see if the entire Program Guide loaded.

Update: 2 hours after the tech left, the Program Guide was still loading just as slowly as before his visit. I've got a very bad feeling about this issue.
 
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philb2 said:
Update: 2 hours after the tech left, the Program Guide was still loading just as slowly as before his visit. I've got a very bad feeling about this issue.
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Time to send that email...
 
I imagine they'd like to start getting rid of traditional QAM video to free up spectrum, although I don't think comcast would be pushing to get rid of their DSG yet, although it clearly is going to be a thing. I'm assuming you have OFDM channels for your new cable service, and I doubt they'd have configured their guard bands wrong messing your service, but I suppose you never really know depending on what systems they moved to (virtualizing a lot of their stuff currently and getting rid of traditional CMTS/CCAPs) .
 
SamirD said:
Time to send that email...
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Well, 3 days on and the Program Guide is mostly filled in. Goes out about 8 days. Supposedly the max is 10. But within that 8 days, there are still "To Be Announced" entries. I'm sick and tired of having to deal with Comcast, and I have lots of other things to take care of.

I did go to the Comcast web site and tried to figure out what an X1 service would cost but it's frustrating. And I couldn't find any info on a price discount for using my own modem/router. So if my wife is happy with the state of the Program Guide, then I'm also happy.

:whistle:
 
Balkroth said:
I imagine they'd like to start getting rid of traditional QAM video to free up spectrum, although I don't think comcast would be pushing to get rid of their DSG yet, although it clearly is going to be a thing. I'm assuming you have OFDM channels for your new cable service, and I doubt they'd have configured their guard bands wrong messing your service, but I suppose you never really know depending on what systems they moved to (virtualizing a lot of their stuff currently and getting rid of traditional CMTS/CCAPs) .
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Balkroth I had to look up all those acronyms and I could not find anything for DSG and CCAP. But no matter. I think what you're saving is that my old non-X1 box uses different Layer 1 (and 2?) protocols than the newer X1 boxes and they want to stop supporting those old protocols. Well, that's good. What will Comcast * pay me * to switch.
 
philb2 said:
I did go to the Comcast web site and tried to figure out what an X1 service would cost but it's frustrating. And I couldn't find any info on a price discount for using my own modem/router. So if my wife is happy with the state of the Program Guide, then I'm also happy.
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Call their Retention Department and have them review your package. They should be able to tell you what your bill would be with X1 service. I called them recently to review my bill and they were amazingly easy to deal with.

I have the 'Standard +More' package (X1, 300/10, Voice) and rent a modem ($14). My bill is $197 per month. I could drop Voice but I kind of like having a landline.

I'm located outside Philly ... basically in their back yard.
 
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philb2 said:
Balkroth I had to look up all those acronyms and I could not find anything for DSG and CCAP. But no matter. I think what you're saving is that my old non-X1 box uses different Layer 1 (and 2?) protocols than the newer X1 boxes and they want to stop supporting those old protocols. Well, that's good. What will Comcast * pay me * to switch.
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DSG = DOCSIS Set-Top Gateway , basically to provide the video/out of band data to your Set top box. No OOB = Program Guide Issues . Without going too deep in the weeds on DOCSIS fun, if services were changed (They wouldn't just drop it, so I'd assume by accident) and/or the provisioning is a mismatch, it won't work as expected, as it probably doesn't seen the OOB signaling (theoretically could be diplexer issues as well I suppose but I doubt it) to retrieve the information.

CCAP = Converged Cable Access Platform , basically Combines the traditional CMTS with Video and Voice instead of separate platforms essentially. Comcast uses a form of Harmonic Cable OS for their vCCAP, and IIRC Arris (CommScope now) E6000 as their standard CCAP.

If they brought out a Protocol/Spectrum Analyzer I feel they could figure out if the OOB signal was missing in a hurry.
 
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Balkroth said:
DSG = DOCSIS Set-Top Gateway , basically to provide the video/out of band data to your Set top box. No OOB = Program Guide Issues . Without going too deep in the weeds on DOCSIS fun, if services were changed (They wouldn't just drop it, so I'd assume by accident) and/or the provisioning is a mismatch, it won't work as expected, as it probably doesn't seen the OOB signaling (theoretically could be diplexer issues as well I suppose but I doubt it) to retrieve the information.

CCAP = Converged Cable Access Platform , basically Combines the traditional CMTS with Video and Voice instead of separate platforms essentially. Comcast uses a form of Harmonic Cable OS for their vCCAP, and IIRC Arris (CommScope now) E6000 as their standard CCAP.

If they brought out a Protocol/Spectrum Analyzer I feel they could figure out if the OOB signal was missing in a hurry.
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Thanks for the protocol acronym explanations. Back in the day, I worked in data communications between systems, and I became something of an "expert" on the OSI stack, TCP/IP and even SNA. But I'm dating myself, and that was a B2B, not consumer stuff.

That said, when the comcast tech came out, I was sort of hoping that he would bring out a spectrum analyzer or packet decoder. All he brought out was a signal strength tester.
 
AgrFan said:
Call their Retention Department and have them review your package. They should be able to tell you what your bill would be with X1 service. I called them recently to review my bill and they were amazingly easy to deal with.
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That's really good to know and I'm going to put in a calendar reminder to call them. But at this point (1) after 4 days, the Program Guide has mostly reloaded, and (2) I'm fed up with Comcast and want to work on other more important, even if less urgent, stuff. My wife is OK now, and that means I'm OK also.
AgrFan said:
I have the 'Standard +More' package (X1, 300/10, Voice) and rent a modem ($14). My bill is $197 per month. I could drop Voice but I kind of like having a landline.
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I'm on the opposite end of the country.
 
OK guys, another update in the sorry, sad story of the slow to load Comcast Program Guide. :sick:

So finally, finally, after about 4 days (!!) the Program Guide is mostly loaded. And all the settings for future recordings are back again. I really like AgrFan's idea of calling the customer retention department. Not to price out a switch to X1, but to demand more compensation for all this unnecessary agony.
 
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