Why is any game or movie I try to play in 3D limited to 12FPS?

[Cyber Akuma]

I built a gaming PC for my cousin a few months ago, it should be more than capable of running nearly any game at 60FPS with high and/or ultra setting, it's an i7 4790k with a superclocked GTX 770 4GB card.

It's connected by HDMI 1.4 through a receiver to a projector, a BenQ W1070.

I know that with HDMI 1.4 we would be limited to 60FPS... and for 3D video or gameplay 30FPS-per-eye to total 60 since it uses active 3D, and that's fine.

Problem is, that's not what we are getting. Since we are not using a monitor we have to use Nvidia's 3D Play application in order to run in 3D mode. This seems to limit us to 24FPS at 1080p. For some reason, it refuses to run at any higher refresh rate in 1080p.

Very annoying, 24fps would be noticeably laggy during gameplay, so we decided to see at least how a movie would look since most are shot in 24fps anyway..... except, it doesn't run in 24FPS "per eye" but 24FPS total.... meaning 12FPS per eye in 3D mode.

This.... this is absurd, as you can imagine such a low framerate in games makes it feel like you are dialup-levels of input lag, and even movies played like garbage, very clear and obvious jitter in between frames whenever there was any motion in CyberLink PowerDVD. I used FRAPS to verify this, and I was right. Both games and Blu-Ray movies were running capped at a ridiculous 12FPS in 1080p 3D, with 3D Play disabled most games far exceeded 60FPS and in many cases even 100FPS even though the projector could not display beyond 60.

The HDMI 1.4 connection should be fully capable of 60FPS at 1080p, so it should definitely be able to do at least 24FPS per eye in 3D mode, much less 30. Yet, it's giving us 24FPS total, meaning 12FPS per eye.

Attempts to Google this were fruitless, a few messageboard posts from several years ago of people that had the same issue that went nowhere. Everything seems to point to the Nvidia 3D Play software being the culprit, artificially limiting the system to 24hz output when set to 1080p, which makes absolutely zero sense whatsoever since an app designed with outputting 3D over HDMI in mind should know this means it will be further limited to 12FPS in active 3D. If it was a bug or an outdated issue with older software... then it should have been fixed by now considering people were having this issue years ago, yet, we have the exact same issue I saw people on forums having nearly five years ago.

Am I somehow just running it or have it somehow set wrong? Or is there any other way to get this working properly? There is no reason the system can't output 3D content at 60FPS (again, at 30FPS per eye) at 1080p, especially since standalone Blu-Ray players and game consoles connected through the same HDMI cable can and have no trouble displaying 3D content, and it outputs 2D content at 60FPS just fine.

 

[Odellus]

in windows it lists the refresh rate as 24 Hz?

p.s. a 670 is not anywhere near enough to run any game at those settings at 60 fps, let alone in 3d.

 

[Cyber Akuma]

Oops, that was supposed to be GTX 770, not 670. It's a 4GB overclocked model.

And actually, it requires me to manually set the refresh rate to 24, if I don't it instead tosses up a message that I need to be in 24hz refresh rate if I am at 1080p and stays in 2D mode.

 

[Odellus]

after looking around it seems you can only do 60 Hz at 720p. have you looked at this thread? https://forums.geforce.com/default/...q-w1070-3dtv-ready-i-cannot-pass-the-setup/1/

a 770 is still too little unless you turn the settings way down. even the 780 Ti struggles with 3D in games that aren't even that demanding.

 

[cybereality]

Nvidia 3DTV Play is limited to 24Hz at 1080. It can do 60Hz at 720P.

This is not the same as fps, though typically V-Sync is forced on in 3D mode, resulting in 24fps or 60fps. It is not "cut in half" because there are two eyes. Each eye is getting it's own view at 24Hz/fps (in your case).

If you are wondering, the 24Hz cap was a limitation of the original HDMI 1.4a chipsets when it first came out. Now many modern GPUs and TVs can support HDMI 2.0 (which does have the bandwidth for 1080 @ 60Hz 3D) but it seems Nvidia never chose to support this. Not sure what their plans are at this point.

 

[Dark12]

Try using a Dual-link DVI cable or DisplayPort

 

[suiken_2mieu]

You could try the tridef software, or something similar. Seems like an arbitrary limitation to me.

 

[Cyber Akuma]

Nvidia 3DTV Play is limited to 24Hz at 1080. It can do 60Hz at 720P.

What? Why? Is that just a false limitation of the 3DTV Play software?

It can't be a limitation of the projector or HDMI connection, since consoles and stand-alone Blu-Ray players have no problems running games and movies at a decent framerate in 1080p on it. The receiver and projector are 1.4, as are the consoles and standalone Blu-Ray players.

This is not the same as fps, though typically V-Sync is forced on in 3D mode, resulting in 24fps or 60fps. It is not "cut in half" because there are two eyes. Each eye is getting it's own view at 24Hz/fps (in your case).

But it's not, that's the problem. Framerate measuring apps show that software is running in 12FPS when it's enabled, because it forces me to set the display's refresh rate to 24HZ when the resolution is 1080p.

Try using a Dual-link DVI cable or DisplayPort

Not possible, it's connected to a projector through a 7.1 receiver. You better believe I would be using Dual-Link DVI or Displayport if it was an option.

 

[cyclone3d]

What? Why? Is that just a false limitation of the 3DTV Play software?

It can't be a limitation of the projector or HDMI connection, since consoles and stand-alone Blu-Ray players have no problems running games and movies at a decent framerate in 1080p on it. The receiver and projector are 1.4, as are the consoles and standalone Blu-Ray players.



But it's not, that's the problem. Framerate measuring apps show that software is running in 12FPS when it's enabled, because it forces me to set the display's refresh rate to 24HZ when the resolution is 1080p.




Not possible, it's connected to a projector through a 7.1 receiver. You better believe I would be using Dual-Link DVI or Displayport if it was an option.

What is the HDMI version on the receiver?

 

[Cyber Akuma]

What is the HDMI version on the receiver?

It was actually pretty hard to find information on that, but it has to be at least 1.4, very very likely 1.4 as even though it's about a year or so old, it's not very expensive so I doubt it's 2.0, they likely would have advertised that.

 

[Armenius]

Only HDMI 1.4b supports 3D frame packing for 1080p/60 Hz. HDMI 1.4a only supports 24 Hz for frame packing at 1080p. AFAIK only the AMD Radeon R9 and R7 series has HDMI 1.4b outputs, while NVIDIA Kepler cards have 1.4a.

 

[cybereality]

What? Why? Is that just a false limitation of the 3DTV Play software?

No, it's not a "false" limitation, but maybe outdated.

Originally back when HDMI 1.4a 3D first came out the bandwidth on the transmission chipsets could not handle full 1080P @ 60Hz. So they only supported 1080P@24Hz (for Blu-Ray 3D movies) and then 720P@60Hz for games.

The spec allowed for 1080P60, but it was optional and never really implemented.

It can't be a limitation of the projector or HDMI connection, since consoles and stand-alone Blu-Ray players have no problems running games and movies at a decent framerate in 1080p on it. The receiver and projector are 1.4, as are the consoles and standalone Blu-Ray players.

Well Blu-Ray movies only run at 24Hz, so that's why they work. The cable is also OK. The issue was with the chips that transmit the signal (both on the video card end and on the display end, both need to work).

Newer video cards and some TVs do have the bandwidth now, but there hasn't seemed to be much action with implementing better 3D modes.

But it's not, that's the problem. Framerate measuring apps show that software is running in 12FPS when it's enabled, because it forces me to set the display's refresh rate to 24HZ when the resolution is 1080p.

Honestly, not sure about this one. It shouldn't be 12fps. Even at 24Hz, you should get the full 24Hz. Internally the glasses will flicker (usually) at 120Hz and just duplicate frames. So you should still be seeing 24 frames for each eye per second (though they will repeat 5 in a row really fast you can't notice). I mean, if you play a game does it look like 12fps? Cause that would be completely unplayable. At least at 24Hz you can maybe try to play (badly).

Not possible, it's connected to a projector through a 7.1 receiver. You better believe I would be using Dual-Link DVI or Displayport if it was an option.

Well you clearly can't use an HDMI 3D format if you don't use an HDMI signal. You can, however, use a DVI-to-HDMI adapter (so you can output from the DVI port on the video card over an HDMI cable) but this shouldn't make a difference.

 

[Cyber Akuma]

No, it's not a "false" limitation, but maybe outdated.

Originally back when HDMI 1.4a 3D first came out the bandwidth on the transmission chipsets could not handle full 1080P @ 60Hz. So they only supported 1080P@24Hz (for Blu-Ray 3D movies) and then 720P@60Hz for games.

The spec allowed for 1080P60, but it was optional and never really implemented.

But the card does output in 1080p60 through HDMI, only when I have 3D enabled does it force me to manually set the refresh rate to 24, which of course means 12FPS in 3D since it has to split that between the left and right eye.

I mean, if you play a game does it look like 12fps? Cause that would be completely unplayable. At least at 24Hz you can maybe try to play (badly).

Yes, there is MASSIVE lag when trying to play it like that... offline, and FRAPS records the game running at 12FPS. Portal 2 isn't exactly something that would push an overclocked 4GB GTX 770 to it's limit even at 1080p, but trying to play it in 3D 1080p felt like I was running it on a toaster.

 

[CrazyRob]

But the card does output in 1080p60 through HDMI, only when I have 3D enabled does it force me to manually set the refresh rate to 24, which of course means 12FPS in 3D since it has to split that between the left and right eye.



Yes, there is MASSIVE lag when trying to play it like that... offline, and FRAPS records the game running at 12FPS. Portal 2 isn't exactly something that would push an overclocked 4GB GTX 770 to it's limit even at 1080p, but trying to play it in 3D 1080p felt like I was running it on a toaster.

He was referring to 3D resolutions. It's easiest to think of each stereo frame as two separate 2d frames (left eye and right eye). Thus twice as much bandwidth is required for 3D (for example, 1080p 24hz in 3D is roughly equivalent to 1080p 48hz in 2D). To do 1080p 60hz in 3D, it would need the bandwidth to handle 1080P 120hz in 2D, which the HDMI 1.x variants just don't have.

For blu-rays, this isn't a problem because films are recorded at 24fps (motion blur recorded in the film makes it look smooth). Gaming, which inherently doesn't have motion blur without latency inducing post-processing, requires a much higher framerate to look smooth.

The best thing you can do in your case is to drop the resolution to 720p. A few projectors do support 1080p 3D over DVI, but you would need to find a different means of getting audio to your receiver.

 

[Cyber Akuma]

He was referring to 3D resolutions. It's easiest to think of each stereo frame as two separate 2d frames (left eye and right eye). Thus twice as much bandwidth is required for 3D (for example, 1080p 24hz in 3D is roughly equivalent to 1080p 48hz in 2D). To do 1080p 60hz in 3D, it would need the bandwidth to handle 1080P 120hz in 2D, which the HDMI 1.x variants just don't have.

Yes, I am well aware of that. I actually know all that and talked about it in my initial post, I was asking that since it's capable of 2D 1080p at 60hz, and 3D needs twice the bandwidth, how come it can't do 3D 1080p at 30FPS, or hell, even allowing me to set the refresh rate to 48hz so I can get 24fps in each eye.

As it is now, even Blu-Ray movies are unplayable in 3D, because I get the same problems. Since I have to set my display to 24hz in 1080p, that means each left and right eye frame is displayed at 12fpz, not 24!

It would need me to set the refresh rate to 48hz, not 24, if I am supposed to get 24FPS in 3D even if just for Blu-Ray movies. But it only allows me to set the refresh rate to 24hz when 3D is running, any higher in 1080p and it just complains the refresh rate is too high and stays in 2D mode. If the entire setup can do 60HZ, then it should be able to do 48HZ too, this giving you 24FPS per eye in 3D mode shouldn't it?

 

[cybereality]

The framerate does not get cut in half and, if that happens, it's a bug with your system and not intended functionality. With HDMI 1.4a 3D, if you set your 2D refresh rate to 24Hz, the 3D refresh rate (in terms of unique images to each eye) is also 24Hz. Both left and right images are bundled into a single frame (called "frame-packing") at the same refresh rate as your settings. You can think of it as an over/under combination of two images. The refresh rate is *NOT* cut in half. In addition, the 3D glasses will flicker at their own refresh rate (typically 120Hz) regardless of what you set on the computer.

It may be that the frame-monitoring apps aren't supporting 3D and are mis-reporting the fps. Or, there is something wrong with your setup. But the take-away should be that if you want to game you need to use 720P. Sorry.

 

[Cyber Akuma]

Well yeah, that's the issue, that the framerate is clearly at 12FPS and not 24. Games are completely unplayable with how slow they run and even movies have a lot of jitter whenever there is any motion whatsoever.

 

[EdZ]

According to the specs for your projector:

It will support frame-packing 3D at 1080p at 24fps only. For higher refresh rates, you will either need to drop down to 720p with frame-packing, or use 1080i with SBS (effective resolution per field per eye would be 960x540). Nvidia's 3D Vision software will also support these formats (all within HDMI 1.4a spec). Neither will support 1080p30 or 1080p25 with frame-packing stereo.

If you are truly getting 12fps, and not simply the FRAPS not coping with stereo 3D, then it is possible you have a custom resolution set up which is interfering with stereo 3D.

 

[The Mac]

Turning vsync on without triple buffering will halve your refresh if it doesnt hit the target 24 fps.