"Why I’m uninstalling Windows 8" Article

There are definitely some things that could be confusing to users but setting up and installing software is something that's not exactly new to Windows 8. Windows 7 doesn't even come with a PDF viewer in the box. The thing is retail PCs are simply not going to be like a clean install. I would imagine that you'll see a lot on traditional laptops and desktops come with the same desktop default applications that have always been setup on these machines.
 
Biznatch said:
You make it sound like everything you do with the OS creates more work for you.
Click to expand...

That's because it does. And it will be 10x worse for users who don't know how to configure default apps. Look, I actually love the Win8 Desktop, don't mind it at all, except when the expectation bubble suddenly bursts and I'm popped into Metro then having to pop out and back to the Desktop again.
 
I would recommend everyone avoid Windows 8 because of it's interface... EXCEPT, people are so bizarre and stupid that I have no idea what people really want. The Windows 7 default taskbar is absolutely idiotic, yet many people like it. MS has found enough people to like the metro to put it on Windows 8.

The metro interface is just the natural evolution of the Windows 7 taskbar. Turning the taskbar into an app launcher might make some sense on a tablet, but not on a PC operating system.
 
Last edited:
heatlesssun said:
I have no idea why people think that that thing that's in the RTM installer is the thing that most users are going to see. Windows 8 GA is still almost two months away and my guess is that these tutorials are going to tailored to the machine and OEM as well there being plenty of online guides and materials.
Click to expand...

Why won't people see it? The RTM image is fixed, a lot of customers and enterprises will use it. If someone goes and buys Win 8 retail, they get the RTM image. I don't care if an OEM adds something better - its not a given, and MS is now depending on OEM's to educate people about their biggest OS release? The fact that MS included that tutorial is inexcusable.
 
Stone Cold said:
Turning the taskbar into an app launcher might make some sense on a tablet, but not on a PC operating system.
Click to expand...

Why doesn't think make sense on a desktop? It does help a LOT of touch on the desktop I would agree. But it's worked perfectly for me with a keyboard and mouse as well.
 
Stone Cold said:
I would recommend everyone avoid Windows 8 because of it's interface... EXCEPT, people are so bizarre stupid that I have no idea what people really want. The Windows 7 default taskbar to be absolutely idiotic, yet many people like it. MS has found enough people to like the metro to put it on Windows 8.

The metro interface is just the natural evolution of the Windows 7 taskbar. Turning the taskbar into an app launcher might make some sense on a tablet, but not on a PC operating system.
Click to expand...

You must be insane. The windows 7 task bar is a huge improvement compared to pretty much every Windows version before it.
 
MrCrispy said:
Why won't people see it? The RTM image is fixed, a lot of customers and enterprises will use it. If someone goes and buys Win 8 retail, they get the RTM image. I don't care if an OEM adds something better - its not a given, and MS is now depending on OEM's to educate people about their biggest OS release? The fact that MS included that tutorial is inexcusable.
Click to expand...

Yes the RTM is done but that tutorial was probably just a place holder. I guarantee the upgrade install will be different and that OEM hardware will do different things. The full retail version of Windows 8 doesn't really exist, its System builder now.
 
chinesepiratefood said:
My god that article is a disaster. Pretty much everything he ranted about is total FUD.
Click to expand...

You're calling everything in that article wrong? When its mostly facts. You don't have to agree, but its not FUD.

heatlesssun said:
Yes the RTM is done but that tutorial was probably just a place holder. I guarantee the upgrade install will be different and that OEM hardware will do different things. The full retail version of Windows 8 doesn't really exist, its System builder now.
Click to expand...

Its not a place holder if its done. If I walk into a store, buy Win 8, and install it (upgrade or not), how exactly will I see a different tutorial? I won't. Or are you saying the image in retail boxes will be different? And neither will any business user when IT installs it on their machines.
 
heatlesssun said:
Why doesn't think make sense on a desktop? It does help a LOT of touch on the desktop I would agree. But it's worked perfectly for me with a keyboard and mouse as well.
Click to expand...

The Windows 7 default taskbar...

What TF is the benefit of wasting so much space on the taskbar (launch icons don't use much space)?
What TF is the benefit of not identifying by name what's opened on the taskbar?
What TF is the benefit of making it take twice as long to switch between programs?
What TF is the benefit of relying on tiny screen images for people to decide which of several near-identical looking images they want to switch to?

Which is why the Windows 7 taskbar is more suitable for Tablets, small devices that aren't really friendly to running more than one thing at a time, just like Windows 8 Metro. Windows Vista is the apex of the PC-centric GUI.

I'm sure Windows 7 works perfectly for people who don't' venture beyond opening one instance of the browser, like my Grandma.
 
daglesj said:
But this is a temporary situation. Like all new versions of Windows we learn the usual tweaks and changes we make with every new install.

With Windows 8 we'll just have to add some new ones such as changing the metro apps to the desktop ones as default.
Click to expand...

Yes, but "out of the box" metro simply gets in your way, a LOT.
And again, most people have no clue how to change default apps, so their day to day experience with Windows 8 will be Metro constantly getting in the way of them trying to get work done. Just think how disruptive it will be if some applications open in a regular window, but then others open in full-screen Metro.
 
Last edited:
maw said:
Yes, but "out of the box" metro simply gets in your way, a LOT.
And again, most people have no clue how to change default apps, so their day to day experience with Windows 8 will be Metro constantly getting in the way of them trying to get work done. Just think how disruptive it will be if some applications open in a regular window, but then others open in full-screen Metro.
Click to expand...

Exactly. All the defenders will say 'change the defaults' or 'use alt-tab' or 'dock it to the side'. The point is the new behaviors in Win 8 have zero benefit on a non-touch device.

Win 8 is like buying a race car for daily use - yes, you can go shopping in it, and you can say it does everything a car does, but it wasn't really built for you.
 
daglesj said:
But this is a temporary situation. Like all new versions of Windows we learn the usual tweaks and changes we make with every new install.
Click to expand...

The trouble with defaults is when we're not using our own computer. Places of work often don't let people tweak their computers. When friends and neighbors call for computer help, they'll be using the defaults.
 
Stone Cold said:
What TF is the benefit of wasting so much space on the taskbar (launch icons don't use much space)?
Click to expand...

I have no idea what you're saying here. The icons are too big?

What TF is the benefit of not identifying by name what's opened on the taskbar?
Click to expand...
Because icons are proven to be faster for this kind of thing than text. See also complaints about Civ 4's UI moving to icons. The aero-preview shows you text if you want it anyway.

What TF is the benefit of making it take twice as long to switch between programs?
Click to expand...

I find it much more manageable to do click-pick window in Aero preview-click than tabbing through 5 different WinXP-style windows to figure out which one is which.

What TF is the benefit of relying on tiny screen images for people to decide which of several near-identical looking images they want to switch to?
Click to expand...
Aero previews work better for multiple windows of the same thing. I'll give you this for an internet browser or something with a labeled taskbar - you've saved a click and a second or so vs Aero previews - but for everything else it's annoying. Click- is that the right one? Click-is that the right one? Etc.

I had the same reaction at first - dislike - but after about a week or two of using it I got used to it, and I'm way faster now (less click-wrong window-click-wrong window). Plus I don't have to use a double or triple-size taskbar like I did in XP - that used a lot of screen real estate.
 
MrCrispy said:
3. the tutorial is awful and doesn't mention it
Click to expand...
You got a tutorial? I got an animation indicating that I could go to any corner for the Charms Bar. Which isn't even correct.

Is there an additional tutorial?
 
MrCrispy said:
You're calling everything in that article wrong? When its mostly facts. You don't have to agree, but its not FUD.
Click to expand...

Yeah like the fact that you have to go to the desktop to launch Steam. That is such a fundamentally incorrect statement its hand to take much of it seriously.

MrCrispy said:
Its not a place holder if its done. If I walk into a store, buy Win 8, and install it (upgrade or not), how exactly will I see a different tutorial? I won't. Or are you saying the image in retail boxes will be different? And neither will any business user when IT installs it on their machines.
Click to expand...

Windows machines have been coming with startup tutorials for years that are included by the OEM. RTM doesn't mean the entire image is in stone. And retail images aren't complete yet.
 
wonderfield said:
You got a tutorial? I got an animation indicating that I could go to any corner for the Charms Bar. Which isn't even correct.
Click to expand...

It does not say this. The text at the top says "Move your mouse into any corner" while displaying an animation of positioning the mouse into the top right corner, and ONLY the top right corner, which reveals the Charms Bar and there's no mention of what moving the mouse into the other corners does.

There are no other animations other than this one for mouse only users. There is another sequence for touch devices but I think you have to install Windows 8 on a touch device to see that one.

So this material is incomplete but what is there is correct.
 
Stone Cold said:
I'm sure Windows 7 works perfectly for people who don't' venture beyond opening one instance of the browser, like my Grandma.
Click to expand...

Sure, I only have about 25 desktop IE 10 browsers running and having no problem switching between then. If someone doesn't like something that's fine, but to assume that people can't perform some task easily is over doing it at bit. One thing I like about the Windows 7 task bar is the ability to switch between instances of a single program buy using the Windows+Number of the position of the app in the task bar.
 
You know what? When I first saw the start screen screenshots online, I hated it. I thought "WTF?!!!!" But it does make sense for a touch interface, which I'll be using on my upcoming Surface tablet. Soooo...Whatever.

I had a lot of doubts about Win8 until 5 days ago. I installed the Enterprise Evaluation...ATM, I only use the desktop. I've switched all the defaults to the desktops versions. It really does work just like Win7 did.

The only thing that is different is the lack of transparent windows. It's an ugly throw back to Win2k's "classic grey" look. YUCK !!!! C'mon M$, make Win8 pretty like Win7 was. For those of you who say that it's better like this, WTF? And if you're saying that it's faster like this, get out from under your rock and buy new hardware you cheap ass bastard. Anything remotely modern is more than fast enough for transparent borders.
[/rant]

Will I be uninstalling Win8? Yes, when I format to install Win8 Pro retail. After a mere 5 days, I like it. It's as fast as Win7 was and just as M$ has designed it to be a bridge between platforms, I will be using it as that in the very near future.
 
MrCrispy said:
You're calling everything in that article wrong? When its mostly facts. You don't have to agree, but its not FUD.
Click to expand...

Facts? First of all, almost everything in that article is OPINION. Secondly, he is uninstalling an operating system because he doesn't like the way a few apps look and work? That is laughable and just plain retarded.

As I have said a MILLION times, why do all these people who hate Metro INSIST on using it? Metro was added for touch devices, nobody can argue that. But if you are not a complete idiot than W8 can be just as good or better in many cases than W7.

It took him 30 minutes to turn off his computer? What a dumb fuck. (him, not you)
 
wonderfield said:
It's an opinion piece, but there are also numerous bits of factual information in it.
Click to expand...

Hard to find the bits of fact for all of the glaring inaccuracies or poor explanation.

Metro apps don’t have any window controls. If you want to swap between apps, you have to make a convoluted mouse gesture - move the mouse to the top left of the screen, and then down to select the window. You can’t minimise the app, and there’s no on-screen preview of what’s running to help you quickly switch between programs.
Click to expand...

So he goes on to talk about the convoluted mouse gesture which when performed shows previews of the whole desktop and individual Modern UI apps but there are no on-screen previews? True there are no on screen previews of individual desktop apps but there's Alt-TAB which shows every individual program as a thumbnail, both desktop and Modern.

People writing this stuff are too concerned about stating their opinion than just stating what's actually there.
 
heatlesssun said:
Hard to find the bits of fact for all of the glaring inaccuracies or poor explanation.



So he goes on to talk about the convoluted mouse gesture which when performed shows previews of the whole desktop and individual Modern UI apps but there are no on-screen previews? True there are no on screen previews of individual desktop apps but there's Alt-TAB which shows every individual program as a thumbnail, both desktop and Modern.

People writing this stuff are too concerned about stating their opinion than just stating what's actually there.
Click to expand...

Have you ever watched an average user? Most are Mouse centric, you tell about keyboard shortcuts its hilarious to watch. Shit most people haven't grasped Tab Let alone Alt-Tab. There is a idiom goes something as "You can't teach an old dog new tricks"

I am still puting my money on the market telling Microsoft their fucking bat shit insane with 8.Ultimatley the market will decide and the stock price will reflect that.
 
E^vol said:
You know what? When I first saw the start screen screenshots online, I hated it. I thought "WTF?!!!!" But it does make sense for a touch interface, which I'll be using on my upcoming Surface tablet. Soooo...Whatever.

I had a lot of doubts about Win8 until 5 days ago. I installed the Enterprise Evaluation...ATM, I only use the desktop. I've switched all the defaults to the desktops versions. It really does work just like Win7 did.

The only thing that is different is the lack of transparent windows. It's an ugly throw back to Win2k's "classic grey" look. YUCK !!!! C'mon M$, make Win8 pretty like Win7 was. For those of you who say that it's better like this, WTF? And if you're saying that it's faster like this, get out from under your rock and buy new hardware you cheap ass bastard. Anything remotely modern is more than fast enough for transparent borders.
[/rant]

Will I be uninstalling Win8? Yes, when I format to install Win8 Pro retail. After a mere 5 days, I like it. It's as fast as Win7 was and just as M$ has designed it to be a bridge between platforms, I will be using it as that in the very near future.
Click to expand...

+1

Well said!
 
Wrench00 said:
Have you ever watched an average user? Most are Mouse centric, you tell about keyboard shortcuts its hilarious to watch. Shit most people haven't grasped Tab Let alone Alt-Tab. There is a idiom goes something as "You can't teach an old dog new tricks".
Click to expand...

Yup, this is pretty much my wife. I installed Windows 8 on her PC a few days ago and all she does is whip the mouse around frantically looking for familiar behavior. Even after I've shown her numerous times how things work with Windows keys and hot corners, she still cannot break the old mouse habit and gets very frustrated. She absolutely HATES when a Metro app hijacks something she's doing because it means she has to remember how to close the damn thing again. I can tell every time she gets hijacked by Metro, because I can hear her screaming at the computer.

She curses me every day, but I'll continue this experiment for a few more weeks to see if she eventually gets used to it or manages to figure out workarounds by herself.

See, we tend to think that since it's easy for us to remember keyboard shortcuts and to learn new behaviors that it will be just as easy for everyone else. Trust me, it's not.
 
maw said:
See, we tend to think that since it's easy for us to remember keyboard shortcuts and to learn new behaviors that it will be just as easy for everyone else. Trust me, it's not.
Click to expand...

I don't think that anyone has ever said that some people wouldn't have a hard time with this. Some obviously will have a harder time than other. I've said many times that Windows 8 will not be as well received on traditional PC hardware as it will new hardware with touch and enhanced track pads and so forth. I'm not telling anyone to upgrade conventional hardware to 8 unless they are will to spend some time figuring some things out. I put it on a convertible tablet PC that I gave to my sister-in-law a few weeks ago and thus far she's told me she's been happy with it. But again, a touch device, she has an iPad and she digs the touch screen actually.

It can take some time to figure it out and adjust but there's plenty of people that have said that in time they did.
 
heatlesssun said:
I don't think that anyone has ever said that some people wouldn't have a hard time with this. Some obviously will have a harder time than other. I've said many times that Windows 8 will not be as well received on traditional PC hardware as it will new hardware with touch and enhanced track pads and so forth. I'm not telling anyone to upgrade conventional hardware to 8 unless they are will to spend some time figuring some things out. I put it on a convertible tablet PC that I gave to my sister-in-law a few weeks ago and thus far she's told me she's been happy with it. But again, a touch device, she has an iPad and she digs the touch screen actually.

It can take some time to figure it out and adjust but there's plenty of people that have said that in time they did.
Click to expand...

Your just describing the Majority of PC users. Everyone will have a hard time with this, the problem is that MS will not give you a god damn choice they will start selling Windows 8 and pull 7.

You can't unteach 17 years of conditioning and familiarity, that ms has ingrained into pc users.
Metro or modern ui is going to be as popular as MS Bob was.

Its like telling some one to drive a car with a two joysticks and no steering wheel or pedals.
 
Stone Cold said:
The trouble with defaults is when we're not using our own computer. Places of work often don't let people tweak their computers. When friends and neighbors call for computer help, they'll be using the defaults.
Click to expand...

Yep and that's why any corporate IT team will create a build that locks out the Metro side as much as possible. Especially the app store.

If they know what they are doing that should be the plan.

However, I think we can all agree Windows 8 in the enterprise is going to be pretty low. Small business users don't usually have locked down builds.
 
Wrench00 said:
You can't unteach 17 years of conditioning and familiarity, that ms has ingrained into pc users.
Click to expand...

So Windows cannot change. It must for always and forever remain the same? If that's the case the Metro is the least of Windows' problems.

Wrench00 said:
Metro or modern ui is going to be as popular as MS Bob was..
Click to expand...

Considering that neither one of us has seen much in the way of Metro apps or new hardware it's a difficult proposition to determine Windows 8's success at this point.

Wrench00 said:
Its like telling some one to drive a car with a two joysticks and no steering wheel or pedals.
Click to expand...

Its nothing anywhere near this difficult.
 
Wrench00 said:
Its like telling some one to drive a car with a two joysticks and no steering wheel or pedals.
Click to expand...

Negative. It's like putting somebody in a car that has the stick shift between the seats instead of out of the steering column and the ignition is a button on the other side. Everything else is the same. If they want to bitch about it so much that they just sit there in the driveway then maybe it's for the best, one less car in traffic. :D
 
Numan said:
Negative. It's like putting somebody in a car that has the stick shift between the seats instead of out of the steering column and the ignition is a button on the other side. Everything else is the same. If they want to bitch about it so much that they just sit there in the driveway then maybe it's for the best, one less car in traffic. :D
Click to expand...

I sometimes wish the end all argument would be "Windows 8 as is, customize it to oblivion, or GTFO" but a lot of people have issues with it even though they have EVERY right to utilize XP, 7, OS X, Linux, BSD or any other OS to their liking INSTEAD of Windows 8. Regardless we're stuck with infinitesimal bitching about.
 
heatlesssun said:
If Windows 8 does fail, then where does the Windows 8 PC go?
Click to expand...
The same place Vista went....nowhere. We wait until something better comes along, because right now, for desktop, Win8 does nothing better than Win7. Increased boot times aside.

One thing that Windows 8 opponents seemed to ignore is just how flat the PC market is right now and there's simply no indication that if Windows was the great desktop and keyboard and mouse only driven OS ever created that that would solve the problem because it looks like people are moving more and more to tablet devices.
Click to expand...
This is a market saturation issue, not a "we need a new tablet OS shoved on a desktop to drive more hardware sales" issue. And why is this a problem to be solved? Why do we continually need to buy newer and better computers when the ones we have are 100 times more capable then we need? Do we really need to replace our PC's and OS's every 3 years? Our cell phones every one or two? CONSUME CONSUME CONSUME

At any rate, one thing that'll be nice to see is something besides and endless flood of crappy clamshell laptops. Retail PC hardware has become totally uninspired and mundane, there's nothing exciting in the space. At least now there's going to be totally new form factors and devices that no one has ever seen, that aren't at all Mac clones.
Click to expand...
I wish Microsoft well in this space. They just need to keep their shitty tablet OS off our beloved PC's.
 
heatlesssun said:
So Windows cannot change. It must for always and forever remain the same? If that's the case the Metro is the least of Windows' problems.
Click to expand...

Actually it's best it doesn't. It isn't a game or a facebook application. Look at serious programs like for example Photoshop. The GUI hasn't really changed since forever, why? So people can sit down with the new version and just use it, instead of having to learn a new way of working which wastes time (and money), especially if they are "learning' new stuff. There are new features, but they are handled in the same structure, because the look of the GUI isn't the most important thing. Getting shit done is.

Anyway, it still does the exact same stuff. Why is a new, slow, worse GUI needed? Or the "old" one not optional for those who don't want to run phone applications?

If you are the worlds largest and most established pumpkin farmer, you don't rip up 90% of your crops to start selling carrots and give all the people who wanted pumpkins carrots instead. You make a separate carrot farm. :p
 
chinesepiratefood said:
It took him 30 minutes to turn off his computer? What a dumb fuck. (him, not you)
Click to expand...

After 10 minutes of looking I actually had to google how to do that and I have been a programmer (who has written over 1 million lines of C++ code in windows) and have used all sorts of computers / OSs since the early 1980s. I have even built a computer and I am talking about with individual chips / programming eproms ... not about the 200 or so PCs that I have assembled.

The same place Vista went....nowhere. We wait until something better comes along, because right now, for desktop, Win8 does nothing better than Win7. Increased boot times aside.
Click to expand...

At work (although I can not speak for all departments) we skipped Vista completely with the XP downgrade option. I expect the same to happen for Windows 8 unless Microsoft offers a way to bring Aero back and disable Metro completely.

The only thing that is different is the lack of transparent windows. It's an ugly throw back to Win2k's "classic grey" look. YUCK !!!! C'mon M$, make Win8 pretty like Win7 was. For those of you who say that it's better like this, WTF?
Click to expand...

It is shockingly ugly with all the Square windows and no transparency.
 
Last edited:
DeathPrincess said:
Anyway, it still does the exact same stuff. Why is a new, slow, worse GUI needed? Or the "old" one not optional for those who don't want to run phone applications?
Click to expand...

It's not slow though. And the 'old' one runs the same if not better . I'm beyond the, "starting to wonder" point of people telling me how I cannot use my mouse to click tiles and how everything is running horribly yet they are not. I'm not an enigma, just lots of cranky people that want those kids to get off their lawn...
 
Less stuff on screen, more steps = slow.

It is strange how nobody sane says "hey this Windows 8 GUI is better!" it's all "It's just as good as 7". Then why bother at all?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top