Why Hasn’t the Year of the Linux Desktop Happened Yet?

[BulletDust]

Where is the option to turn off acceleration?

Where is the option to control the updater under Windows 10? Fuck acceleration, the low setting is perfect for me, I want control over the impotent aspects of the OS - Like the updater.

You see the fact that the updater is pure shit under Windows is perfect reasoning to completely write off the OS - Especially when tried and proven workarounds are being rendered useless with every buggy update, the fact that you need to enter xset m 00 in terminal is hardly a valid excuse to write off an entire OS over what you consider to be an issue most are not in the slightest bit sensitive to.

As someone stated earlier, you can even make a shell script to activate/deactivate acceleration - You know what scripts are don't you?

Of course, if you must use Windows, please, use Windows.

 

[GlacierNine]

Where is the option to turn off acceleration?

There isn't one. You can turn it down to the lowest the slider allows but that isn't actually "off".

The *only* way is through the command line.

There's also no convenient way to set raw input - in Windows it's 6/11 on the slider. In Ubuntu the slider isn't stepped, so even if you knew exactly where on it was 1:1 movement, you can't ever actually be sure you have it set exactly there.

Sure, you could use that simple command to turn it off if you want, or you could just go to the control panel and click on "mouse settings".

And before someone says "but but but but fragmentation!". Every desktop/distro that I have tried in the last 10 years has had this option in the same place. Ubuntu, CentOS, Fedora, MATE, Mint, Cinnamon, GNOME, Unity, etc. all have some kind of "Control Panel" in a very easy to access location.

That slider doesn't turn Accel off, it reduces it to a very small amount, but it is very much still turned on.

Secondly, the proliferation of distros is just another example of how inaccessible and pathetic Linux is as an ecosystem - For most people, and even most businesses, even if what is needed is very, very simple (basic web browsing), the sheer amount of choice on offer - and the permanent arguments between the people who use them, is a much larger issue.

You cannot say to someone "You should use linux, it's perfect for you" and leave them to it. You have to recommend them a distro, possibly several distros. The moment you do recommend them a distro someone will always be on hand to tell you why that particular distro sucks - particularly the Ubuntu based ones, which is ironic as the clear point of those distros is to be useful for non-power-users, and yet power-users are entirely oblivious to how good it is at that compared to their favourite distro, and will do stupid shit like recommend fucking Arch over Ubuntu for a daily-driver system for a non-computer-literate relative.

Linux hasn't received mass market acceptance purely because it is a fucking MESS of ideas all put together with no real consensus on which ideas are suitable for use by what people or in what circumstances. (Along with the other things mentioned, like the poor usability if you're not prepared to use terminal)

 

[GlacierNine]

Where is the option to control the updater under Windows 10? Fuck acceleration, the low setting is perfect for me, I want control over the impotent aspects of the OS - Like the updater.

You see the fact that the updater is pure shit under Windows is perfect reasoning to completely write off the OS - Especially when tried and proven workarounds are being rendered useless with every buggy update, the fact that you need to enter xset m 00 in terminal is hardly a valid excuse to write off an entire OS over what you consider to be an issue most are not in the slightest bit sensitive to.

As someone stated earlier, you can even make a shell script to activate/deactivate acceleration - You know what scripts are don't you?

"Wah wah someone pointed out that the option being discussed isn't actually in the screenshot I so smugly posted, I'm going to deflect from this discussion to a COMPLETELY UNRELATED PROBLEM in a competing product"

Your answer wasn't correct. Act like a fucking adult and own it.

 

[BulletDust]

There isn't one. You can turn it down to the lowest the slider allows but that isn't actually "off".

The *only* way is through the command line.

There's also no convenient way to set raw input - in Windows it's 6/11 on the slider. In Ubuntu the slider isn't stepped, so even if you knew exactly where on it was 1:1 movement, you can't ever actually be sure you have it set exactly there.




That slider doesn't turn Accel off, it reduces it to a very small amount, but it is very much still turned on.

Secondly, the proliferation of distros is just another example of how inaccessible and pathetic Linux is as an ecosystem - For most people, and even most businesses, even if what is needed is very, very simple (basic web browsing), the sheer amount of choice on offer - and the permanent arguments between the people who use them, is a much larger issue.

You cannot say to someone "You should use linux, it's perfect for you" and leave them to it. You have to recommend them a distro, possibly several distros. The moment you do recommend them a distro someone will always be on hand to tell you why that particular distro sucks - particularly the Ubuntu based ones, which is ironic as the clear point of those distros is to be useful for non-power-users, and yet power-users are entirely oblivious to how good it is at that compared to their favourite distro, and will do stupid shit like recommend fucking Arch over Ubuntu for a daily-driver system for a non-computer-literate relative.

Linux hasn't received mass market acceptance purely because it is a fucking MESS of ideas all put together with no real consensus on which ideas are suitable for use by what people or in what circumstances. (Along with the other things mentioned, like the poor usability if you're not prepared to use terminal)

This is total rubbish.

I've experienced the exact same issues convincing companies to switch from Windows 7 to Windows 10 while highlighting that they're going to have to upgrade all their tried and proven software in order to have it running reliably under Windows 10!

If you want no acceleration because you think you're hard ass, the terminal command is stupidly simple - Stupidly simple.

 

[pyr02k1]

So, In fair warning style, I'm sitting in a garage that is around freezing and I've had 4 beers in the matter of an hour after finishing my Santa duties for the evening.

Lack of support for applications and poorer performance in many cases. That's why I have not switched. There was a perfect opportunity with Vista, 8, and again with 10 (in some instances) for Linux to gain market share.

But the fragmentation is something I mentioned before. Rather than developers working together they are all split up making different distros with minor differences rather than trying to make only a few distros much better.

I'd like to think the performance is less the issue now than the fragmentation and application support. The issue with performance is really a torn one in that the number of cross platform applications is far fewer than it needs to be to properly judge. But the fragmentation is both a plus and a minus. I enjoy being able to switch distros as I please, but I also hate that I sometimes have to for one reason or another. In the past 5 years, I've been on Manjaro, Arch, Ubuntu, Fedora, CentOS, Debian and Linux Mint. Currently I have Manjaro on a laptop and Debian on my server with a few Ubuntu VMs. None of those options were because one was "better" than the other, but they all had a reason. I use Ubuntu VMs to run software that has dependencies that don't fill properly on Debian, and Manjaro because Arch has a horrible install process, and either of those because Mint didn't support my hardware at the time and Arch based was the only one who "easily" did. My general dislike of Redhat based package management was why Fedora and Centos didn't work for me outside of my work requirements. Fragmentation may work for Android to some point, but on the desktop or laptop, it doesn't. The applications is the large key in this case. I'd asked a few graphics people at my new job why they prefer Windows or Mac, and all of them have the same conclusion when talking to them, applications they know versus availability. All of them are aware of Linux, but their preferred application isn't available. Be that Photoshop or something else they just know, it isn't there so they can't even consider it in there mind. They don't seem against the idea of a seamless VM, but why do so when they have no detriment or cost to running Mac or Windows. Fragmentation and lack of application support will keep linux off the desktop in a prime fashion as it isn't viable to many.

1 word :
Games.

1 more, Applications. Graphics is a strong workflow to many, Word is what a ton of people know and love, the list does go on, but my drinking brain can't list them. Games is an important one for sure, and that's why I'm typing this on a Windows 10 PC in the garage... It's my gaming PC, and I happen to be in the garage. My last company forced excel, word and exchange down everyones throats, so my laptop was Linux with a VM running for those odd things I needed often. But yes, Games stops me now. My next rig is being designed with that in mind. I'll run a passthrough GPU to get my games while having my Linux OS as my main choice, but even then it'll be a PITA with Discord and the like. Being that I'm not the average user of a PC, it's not unusual that I'd jump through those hoops, but so long as people have to, Linux will never win.

As for the PC platform... Linux will win in the end when MS embraces it fully. Which will happen. Make no doubt MS isn't going to continue spending billions developing a full PC OS forever, when they can simply build out a Windows DE that runs on the Linux core. (ditto for a windows phone... a MS version of Android makes 1000% more sense from a $$ perspective) They can leave all the expensive to develop core stuff to the Project and its 1000s of other corp code contributors. MS has already started down this road, I don't expect they move fully next year or even the year after... but 5-6 year from now if MS is still running thier own kernel and non Nix core I would be pretty damn surprised. The industry is fully ready to switch driver wise ect at this point... with all the work they put in for Chrome/Android. MS switching their core makes a ton of sense for everyone, most of all MS who will save a ton of R&D dollars and likely be able to layoff 1000s of costly employees..

I hadn't even considered that possibility before this very moment. The idea that they'd do so seemed so long that it was impossible to consider. In truth, it makes sense. They've dipped their toes in it with Android launchers, Ubuntu in the Windows Store and other bits, but this is the first I'd considered it a possibility. Heck, their Windows 10 on ARM is a good example of them expanding into testing odds and ends. If they can figure an emulation method that makes WINE look like garbage, they've make Linux on the desktop a strong contender. They know their user base enough that they know Joe Schmo and others wouldn't even notice, and the devs that would shouldn't have any issue if they make it the norm and it works. Jeez, that's enlightening on Christmas Day when I'm 4 beers in after doing Santa things.

Two Words: Terrible community.

Literally one of the most toxic elitists communities out there to new users. I've been part of the linux community since the really early days and I find myself wanting less and less to do with it because frankly it makes 4chan look like a welcoming place at this point.

You're not entirely wrong. The community is a sore spot a lot of times. It's dependent on who you get to answer you, where and when. It sucks. On the Arch forums, they'll assume you know everything, on the Ubuntu Forums you'll either get a good answer or a jackass, with it being a good 50/50 to which you get, if you get an answer at all. The community problem is definitely a problem that comes with a mix of old timers and newcomers mixed with a much smaller install base as compared to windows. With windows, having a friendly user base is beneficial since there is so many places to get the information. With linux, the user base is so small that it doesn't help or hurt to have a dick mixed in for every nice and helpful person. I try to be the latter as much as I can, but the former will always stand out in the end.

Wrong. I just hate things that don't work well, and that includes desktop Linux.

In truth, it depends entirely on which distro you end up with, and that is the larger issue with this. One distro is not exactly the same as the other, and that brings the fragmentation problem to the forefront. For the most part, many just work nowadays, but when they don't, getting answers can suck.

Everyone, next time you see a toxic Linux poster, this is the excuse they are using for their behavior, remember that. On a different note, the Linux Desktop is too fragmented and it will never be the year of the Linux Desktop, unless that changes. The person who claimed that it does not matter is also the same person who was claiming the ChromeOS as the Year of the Linux Desktop.

You're entirely right on the fragmentation issue. And it sucks to see it. The tradeoff is that the software costs you nothing and you can benefit from it with a bit of willingness. The issue is that many don't have that willingness. This isn't the same as comparing the Android app store to the Amazon one to the FDroid one... thats a difference of normal users vs slightly advanced users vs power users. The fragmentation on linux distros means you need to be a power user to enjoy a distro, not to enjoy it more. It's unfortunate and, unfortunately, very unlikely to change.

Not really.

Ruthless marketing is the only reason Windows is a popular as it is - It's that simple.

Not being locked into one horrible UI is awesome.

Partly true for sure. They market to Schools and other entities with discounted prices. Knowing that a person is locked in to them at work increases the likelihood that they'll also be locked in at home. My daughters school has all Apple products as their main systems. Rare, but it still means that she's more likely to use an apple product in the future. It's unfortunate that Redhat doesn't push their way into that market some more and help gain traction. Encourage use of Fedora for the desktops with Redhat as the backend and they will do wonders. They don't do that unfortuately.

afaik the main reason why people prefer windows is because it's what they grew up with and/or what they learned to use at school.
Microsoft knows exactly why it gives all schools special deals on windows and office.
Most people don't care enough to want to "learn" a new OS.

Most linux distros I used the last 5 years where pretty easy to use, although once you want to do more advanced things the learning curve is a it of a bump.

That's entirely spot on. My reply to BulletDust explains my daugher wanting a macbook entirely. It's a what they know thing. She knows Android, so despite wanting a Macbook, she also wants an Android phone. All about gettting them hooke dearly.

Windows Documentation -

Step 1 - Click the Start Button.

Step 2 - Select...


Linux Documentation -

WTF do you want documentation for? We assume you are not a noob and have 10 years hardcore Linux experience plus it's not our job to teach you how to use it!

Step 24 (you knew steps 1 to 23 but if you don't then WTF are you doing here?) - Type @$??direct-sudo_appget more//arcane...bullshit@@means_sweet_FA%%WHYCANTIJUSTCLICKANICONTODOTHIS?//(2565434)~~??//"doesthislookintimidatingenoughtoyouyet?"

Maybe 10 years ago. In truth, this is definitely distro (DE) dependent, but most are intuitive nowadays. It does suck to have to admit that the occasional command line use may be needed. It's far less than 10 years ago, but it still exists, and it can be for some petty crap too.

It's the same problem that desktop Linux as always faced, lack of hardware and software support.

Hardware is much better now than in the past, but it still does suffer from being third in line. Software is really the key.

Turning off Mouse Acceleration in Windows - The first tickbox in this image:

Turning off Mouse Acceleration in Ubuntu:


You can make it nice and simple simply by running:

xset m 00

Which will completely turn off mouse acceleration.

!#/bin/bash
xset m 00

Save the file as a .sh script - make it executable with chmod +x filename, add it as a startup program in the Startup Applications program, and you're good to go!









WOW, LINUX SURE IS INTUITIVE AND EASY TO USE.

It hasnt' been that way in a long time. In Mint it was a nuisance a good few versions back, but that was solved. It's DE dependent for sure, but Ubuntu has had it as an option for a good while now and others as well. In fairness, a lot of petty crap still requires command line and may even require a startup script. I wish it weren't that way, but it does still exist. The fragmentation of DE to DE and Distro to Distro will keep linux down all on it's own. Add in lack of some applications that many devs use and it just keeps things down.

Have I missed it in my skin of this thread?

Linux is only free if your time is worthless.

I won't entirely disagree. 10 years ago, that was surely true. In the past few, it's become simplistic enough that many could switch easily. When you get in to Office, Exchange, Photoshop and the such, it becomes a pain and that does make what you say true. The time I spent configuring and using a VM for Office and other bits at my last job meant that not only was I losing time, but also battery life by having a VM in the background. My new company uses all cloud products, so I could use linux more easily, but my problem is still games (and I work for a VR company now, so it's rather important). I wish I could use Linux how I wanted, but fragmentation and support for games and applications will keep that out of reach for the foreseeable future.


Mmmk, the out of service and still drunk santa will be taking this chance to get a few hours of sleep until the children wake up. Apologies if I was rude or out of place at all... I love linux and I love what it makes available, but I wish I could use the applications I want and play the games I desire without the need for other hoops to go through. I can fully understand why a casual user wouldn't do those things, and I fully understand why linux hasn't had it's year, despite many chances to pull it off. Wish it weren't so, but it is. Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night! and if you don't celebrate christmas, I hope you have a wonderful day and that everything goes as you hope it will.

 

[BulletDust]

"Wah wah someone pointed out that the option being discussed isn't actually in the screenshot I so smugly posted, I'm going to deflect from this discussion to a COMPLETELY UNRELATED PROBLEM in a competing product"

Your answer wasn't correct. Act like a fucking adult and own it.

And here we have yet another Windows user posting proving, once again, why Windows users think Linux users have bad attitudes.

Grow up.

 

[Meeho]

Where is the option to control the updater under Windows 10? Fuck acceleration, the low setting is perfect for me, I want control over the impotent aspects of the OS - Like the updater.

You see the fact that the updater is pure shit under Windows is perfect reasoning to completely write off the OS - Especially when tried and proven workarounds are being rendered useless with every buggy update, the fact that you need to enter xset m 00 in terminal is hardly a valid excuse to write off an entire OS over what you consider to be an issue most are not in the slightest bit sensitive to.

As someone stated earlier, you can even make a shell script to activate/deactivate acceleration - You know what scripts are don't you?

Of course, if you must use Windows, please, use Windows.

So, what you're saying is there is no option?

 

[GlacierNine]

This is total rubbish.

I've experienced the exact same issues convincing companies to switch from Windows 7 to Windows 10 and upgrade all their tried ans proven software that will need upgrading to run under Windows 10!

If you want no acceleration because you think you're hard ass, the terminal command is stupidly simple - Stupidly simple.

I said nothing about updating software whatsoever.

I said that for ANY user, not just business, not just home, not just anywhere in between, it is a huge problem that "Linux" is hundreds of different Distros, all of which people will argue to the death about being better than the other.

For gods sake man, there are nine different versions of Ubuntu alone, not including derivatives like Mint.

As for accel - I want it because it keeps my mouse movement consistent with the movement I have set up in Dota for maximal control, and therefore doesn't feel weird when I switch between those apps. The fact Ubuntu doesn't have a proper GUI option to turn it off, turns a process of "finding a likely menu", into "trying to find a likely menu, not finding it, maybe trying an option that doesn't work as desired, googling a command, opening terminal, pasting the command and then running it". It objectively takes longer to do.

It doesn't matter how "simple" the script is. There will not be a "year of Linux on the desktop" until a script is not required to access the features in question - It's not even as if these features aren't commonly used. It's niche, sure, but it's a big niche - a majority of professional esport titles have communities that value these things. And this has been the case for years - I remember Starcraft 2 players back in 2010, setting mouse sensitivity to 51% ingame to get that kind of raw input. The Source Engine has a tickbox option for it and has for years. So does Source 2. Overwatch uses raw input by default so that it's always 1:1 with no accel regardless.

 

[Taco]

To completely, totally and utterly disable acceleration for raw input via the GUI? You can get very close, but for hard asses like yourself you may need to type a few letters or create a very simple shell script to make things even more convenient.

Hardly rocket science...Or is it?

If it is, sorry - I didn't mean to highlight your flaws as a [H] user. ;(

Here I was thinking we were talking about mass adoption, not the users on this site. Shell script, lol.

You are a parody of the problem.

 

[GlacierNine]

Update: Been fiddling in my own Ubuntu installation. Decided to install KDE Plasma and ended up reminding myself that this DE has terrible font rendering. Very low readability compared to vanilla ubuntu desktop.

 

[dandirk]

Windows has the install base. People are used to it, knows how it works. Vendors as well.

MacOS has the cool factor...

Linux has neither and I would completely agree fragmentation alone can be a big detractor. Android has the same issue imo, just documenting settings/howtos can be a nightmare when everyone decides to just do something simple like label everything differently. Does this mean its a crappy OS? Not at all it just will stay a niche product and not take over the "desktop" as we know it today.

Microsoft is trying to push their customers to the cloud but also get their OS to operate more like Linux/Andreoid and iOS with simpler update system, allowing a bit more agility and less fragmentation etc.

Everyone wants to complain about Windows 10 updates, personally I see it as an improvement with bumps in the road to get there. Sorta like Vista's driver issues at first, once vendors got their act together it was a perfectly serviceable OS (around sp1).

I had management all over me about "wannacry" and all I had to tell them was the fixed update was deployed 3 times over the last 3 months... Overkill but the point was made.

We are already seeing vendors who were always a problem/slower supporting new Win versions or dependencies like .Net. change their toon when we can't fall back on the "just don't install that update" option vendors would abuse all the time and were slow to fix their stuff.

 

[seanreisk]

In 1996, back when Linux was grossly unregulated, I did a presentation at a Linux conference .....

You basically lost me at 1996 and I'm looking through my distro trying to find this 'unorganization' and 'complexity' you talk about .....

Maybe 'unregulated' isn't the best word, but that's what it was like. In 1996, Linux distros were borrowing bits and pieces from Debian, BSD, GNU, etc. Most organizations were fine with that, but you also had people borrowing bits from AT&T, IBM, HP, Novell, Solaris and even NeXT, and those people were NOT happy. And then SCO got their horns in the fire and it looked like Linux might disappear from the enterprise space completely. There were things being ported and recompiled that were flagrantly commercial. There were other things that couldn't be ported properly, and I remember one night when I was trying to get an early version of the Apache web server working. I eventually found out that I needed to download and compile an object with a Debian installation, and then move the compiled object over to my Red Hat machine. That was a night of partitioning, downloading and installing Debian, figuring out how to get Debian to boot and connect to the network, to finally grab a piece of software from a server in Norway.

'Unregulated' isn't quite the right term, but I was trying to describe the crazy way Linux was being propagated.

 

[heatlesssun]

How many times have we been over this Heatlesssun? We're gonna clash again, I can assure you of it.

That's your opinion, sadly the fact that it is you opinion does not substantiate the fact that it's not bullshit. Are you going to crap on about VR again?

It's not an opinion, it's nearly 20 years of well document history. For two decades we have countless folks pointing out the ecosystem deficiencies with desktop Linux and time and there's just way around the issue when it has that much history. Of course there are plenty of Windows users that don't need or want all that the Windows ecosystem has to offer and I'm willing to say that's possibly most Windows users.

But good 3rd party support has an enormous halo effect. It's much better for the general perception of a platform to have more support than le

However I can fire up my Windows 10 machine as someone that's also a Windows user that doesn't blindly defend Microsoft and I can see two UI's, one aimed at the touch crowd and one aimed at the desktop crowd that adds bloat and doubles up on necessary functionality unnecessarily creating confusion to the end user.

With now over two years of Windows 10 in the field and day to day reports of using Windows 10, sure there's plenty of inconsistencies in the Windows 10 UI but as for it causing mass confusion? I get that you're a tech but I work in an large enterprise environment and we've started to roll out Windows 10 and what I've heard about the feedback from end user response has been positive. There's no mass confusion or frustrations that I've heard about. The update from Windows 7 can be SUPER slow I've heard with one guy telling me it took 9 hours to update his laptop but other than that he's been happy with it.

 

[Flapjack]

UEFI issues are the fault of MS, however I can assure you, you're pretty damn unlucky and if you got the installer to run your issue is obviously not related to UEFI issues. I install various distro's all the time on a magnitude of machines and rarely encounter any more issues than I have under Windows.

Not blaming the user, I believe you had issues - They just aren't widespread simply because you encountered them in one isolated case.

The UEFI and hang at login issues are separate, in case you didn't get that from my post. I even laid most of the blame on the UEFI issue at Windows' feet, in case you also missed that.

Regarding the login hang issue, it is far from an isolated incident. Just about any arch-based distro using KDE has the issue, and from what I have had time to gather.... it has to do with a font. A motherfucking font. How in God's name can a damned font cause a system-wide freeze?! Try replicating that in Windows (I'm betting you can't). Personally, as much as I'd like to have it, I don't have the time for Linux right now. My time is simply too valuable.

https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=123536

Why? Why is such a staement ignorant? Because it's not mindlessly supporting Microsoft?

FACT: Solus Linux is simple to install, simple to use, the terminal is no more necessary than the command line under Windows and you can install the latest and greatest software from the official repository via GUI - Effectively, it's easier to use than Windows.

In addition to the original statement being ig'nant, your defense of the original statement is also ig'nant. You're muddling your obvious breadth of experience with Linux with the lack of experience a typical Windows user has with Linux. Most of my Linux experience comes from working on Linux servers, yet I still struggle with desktop Linux. Congratulations. You found ONE Linux distro out of five hundred and fifty thousand that *you* think is easier to use than Windows. I've not personally used Solus, but I'm going to guess there are a lot of reasons I wouldn't. However, one look at their forums tells me not everyone feels it's "easy". Not to mention, it's obvious from the postings there that most of the OPs in problem threads have most definitely used Linux in the past. The one thing I can give Solus is that the replies seem to be pretty friendly, compared to the typical "RTFM, n00b" replies I see on most QA threads.

 

[GlacierNine]

I have a 128GB drive in my machine doing absolutely nothing important. I will install Solus tonight and report back here with any problems I encounter and any obvious deficiencies it has in comparison to windows.

Anyone willing to bet a dollar against me, you win if I find nothing to complain about?

 

[trparky]

The problem that I see in the Linux "community" is that there really is no community. I like to think of the Linux "community" as a real life Lord of the Flies (Wikipedia). Everyone wants to do their own thing, nobody wants to work together. There's constant infighting among both the users and developers which leads to unnecessary forks all because someone had the equivalent of a temper tantrum. "Oh... I don't like it this way so instead of being an adult about it and try to work within the 'community' I'm going to be a man-child about it and fork it! That'll teach them!" Meanwhile six months later and their fork has gone nowhere fast. Want proof? Look at Sourceforge and any other open source code repository and you'll find that they are absolutely littered with dead projects that haven't been touched in months, if not years.

As for choice, the Linux "community" champions the idea of choice but to the regular person on the street they couldn't give a rat's ass about choice, all they give a damn about is if they can sit down at a computer and just have it work. Security it another thing, security can't be a product; it must go hand-in-hand with the system because in the end the user doesn't care about security, all they care about is if their stuff works and doesn't get their data stolen.

 

[tetris42]

It's not an opinion, it's nearly 20 years of well document history. For two decades we have countless folks pointing out the ecosystem deficiencies with desktop Linux and time and there's just way around the issue when it has that much history. Of course there are plenty of Windows users that don't need or want all that the Windows ecosystem has to offer and I'm willing to say that's possibly most Windows users.

It's interesting how little has changed to the main arguments. I mean all the biggest stuff that keeps me off Linux still applies. From my perspective, the main things that have changed from now v. 10 or 20 years ago are the following:

-If you need to do basic things, assuming you don't run into problems, there's an argument to be made Linux is honestly easier than Windows now.
-Game support isn't completely anemic. It's still nowhere near good enough for enthusiasts, but it's not as Quixotic as it was.
-It is actually possible to edit videos on Linux now.

I'm pessimistic much will change on the situation another 10 years from now.

Power users are either on Linux already because it works for them, or else their needs are too specialized for Linux to be realistic for them. I don't see this dynamic changing much. People who just need "a computer" for basic things should be an ideal target for Linux, since it honestly is ready for them in many cases. The problem is Linux has no marketing, so getting that crucial foothold likely isn't going to happen either.

 

[trparky]

One word - MATE.

The strength of Linux is it's flexibility, the way you can completely customize it to suit yourself right down to the DE and therefore the UI used. It's your PC, set it up exactly how you like to use it and so called fragmentation is no longer an issue. I run a number of DE's and I've never had an issue adapting to any of them - But I by far prefer MATE because it's so customizable.

The end user doesn't give a rat's ass about that kind of stuff, all they want is to sit down at a computer anywhere in the world and know how to use it.

Linux community user: You can do all of these things, customize all of these things. You can do this, that, this, that... half an hour later, this and that and this and that.
End user: *eyes glazed over* You lost me about 25 minutes ago.
Linux community user: But don't you care about all of that customization?
End user: No, I just want things to work.
Linux community user: Heresy!

 

[GlacierNine]

UPDATE

I installed Solus Linux and took it for a spin. It took me less than an hour to subsequently make it unusably broken, and I didn't have to install a single program, or enter the command line. All I had to do was install all available updates and reboot!

Before that though, the other issues:

First issue - Installer demands username be in lowercase, but only tells the user that the name is invalid - does not state why, leading to annoying attempts at multiple username entries until one is acceptable.

Second Issue - First attempt after installing to set my monitor to it's correct refresh rate of 120Hz, resulted in two blank monitors and forced me to reboot the machine to regain a UI.

Third Issue - No Accel options in the menus whatsoever, exactly the same problem as in Ubuntu in order to resolve.

Fourth Issue - Doing the initial round of updates logged me out of my session without warning and closed all open programs in doing so. Would not want to use an OS as a daily driver if doing updates has a chance of randomly kicking me out of my session like that - particularly not in a work environment.

Fifth Issue - After Installing the OS, Installing Updates, and Rebooting, superkey+left/right no longer worked at all, and my desktop background was solid black, even after manually attempting to change it to one of the preinstalled backgrounds.

Sixth Issue - Again, after the first round of updates, superkey did not behave properly at all - it no longer opens the menu - although pressing it does close the menu, which makes me think superkey is now bound incorrectly. Update: Confirmed, Super+Space is now nonfunctional - even with multiple input languages enabled it will not cycle through them. Opening onscreen keyboard shows the key registering but nothing occurs in response.

Seventh Issue - I just pressed the button to pop out the notification menu (Raven). It has a power icon in it. I pressed this power icon to turn the machine off and nothing happened. I opened the menu again and went to press the button again, but each time I tried the menu closed itself immediately.

Eighth Issue - I am now trying to log into hardforum from this install. Even though I have selected the firefox window, it is not possible to log in - every time I type anything it types the letters into the text document I'm writing this post in. G fucking G Solus. You are now officially un-usable and it has taken me less than an hour since installing you, having done nothing but RUN YOUR OWN UPDATER.

 

[MDboyz]

Will be awhile, since Windows 10 will bring more Linux functions to Windows OS. Less and less people will need to switch over to Linux to use them.

 

[naib]

A motherfucking font. How in God's name can a damned font cause a system-wide freeze?! Try replicating that in Windows (I'm betting you can't)..

maybe... Maybe not BUT Microsoft so far are the only ones to royally fuck up font handling g that a MOTHERFUCKING font can cause a remote exploit . Just visiting a website had the potential to pwn your systen

People in glass houses should not throw stones

 

[Flogger23m]

I think the more interesting discussion would be when SteamOS and Steam boxes take off. There were numerous posters even on this very forum who just knew it would kill consoles and be the death of Windows. A few years later, SteamOS and Steam boxes are dead in the water like I had assumed.

 

[travm]

In a nutshell.
Using galliumOS on my chromebook. USB drive failed forced me to reinstall. The settings to enable the "right click zone" on the touchpad are buried in a config file. The website that originally told me where this was and the 10 lines of terminal code i had to put in to change it seems to have dissapeared. People online with similar issues are being told they don't know what they are talking about and its not an issue.
I use engineering software on my chromebook and want the simple right click on the touchpad, like i had before. But because i didnt write down the stupid terminal command, its lost. Also because i didnt write the program, I dont just bloody know where it is.
Linux is cheap, its not good, its not easy. I have dual booted multiple times, basically run linux for close to 10 years. Updates often break the system, or if your lucky just a few programs. And the response from more knowledgable people is always, oh you just dont know what your doing. Maybe so, but windows just fucking works (relatively, indeed, sometimes it doesnt either, but mostly it does).

 

[naib]

I think the more interesting discussion would be when SteamOS and Steam boxes take off. There were numerous posters even on this very forum who just knew it would kill consoles and be the death of Windows. A few years later, SteamOS and Steam boxes are dead in the water like I had assumed.

at the very least it is a nice insurance policy and it doesn't seem to be too much of a hassle for valve as they are keeping it up to date. As long as SteamOS exists any build can be made into a steambox.

PC sales are eclipsing consoles so you don't need steamOS to pressure consoles. Consoles are consoles worst enemy with their post-gen hardware, unique configurations, exclusives...

Also steamOS was to head off windows store NOT take on consoles

 

[Flogger23m]

at the very least it is a nice insurance policy and it doesn't seem to be too much of a hassle for valve as they are keeping it up to date. As long as SteamOS exists any build can be made into a steambox.

PC sales are eclipsing consoles so you don't need steamOS to pressure consoles. Consoles are consoles worst enemy with their post-gen hardware, unique configurations, exclusives...

Also steamOS was to head off windows store NOT take on consoles

When you include browser games or crappy (yes, really crappy) free to play games in China and Russia yes. Not when it comes to AAA games or games of good quality, which is what most of us actually care about. If we're going by that metric, mobile gaming is killing PC gaming.

As for SteamOS it was a reaction to the Win store, but the Steam box concept was thought (by some hardcore Valve fans at least) to be the end of console gaming and Windows gaming. Most of us knew it would be a flop. The only people who use a dedicated PC with SteamOS are Valve fans. Or people who really, really hate Microsoft. Recall all those posts about it offering the best of the PC gaming aspects and the best of the console aspects when in reality it offered the worst of each. The Valve fans were so sure it would be such a hit and so many console gamers would love to move to it. All I can say is "lol".

 

[DukenukemX]

Will be awhile, since Windows 10 will bring more Linux functions to Windows OS. Less and less people will need to switch over to Linux to use them.

That's not the incentive to use Linux. The functions that linux does is a bonus, but not the reason to use it. Those Linux features are so Microsoft can appeal to the server market. End users don't care. The server market uses Linux due to flexibility and being license free.

For end users the benefit of using Linux is freeing yourself from Microsofts monopoly. It does open up a world of difference when it comes to your daily PC use. Things like disabling mouse acceleration and being able to play Fallout 4 is something a gamer is concerned. Things like terminal commands in Windows is not one of them.

When you include browser games or crappy (yes, really crappy) free to play games in China and Russia yes. Not when it comes to AAA games or games of good quality, which is what most of us actually care about. If we're going by that metric, mobile gaming is killing PC gaming.

From what I've seen the sale of most PC games is either equal to the PS4 or surpassing it. Really depends on the game though, but generally the PC is doing equally to the PS4. Cuphead for example sold over 1 million on Steam alone, while the Xbox One version didn't do as well.

https://steamspy.com/search.php?s=cuphead

On the other hand I don't expect a game like Nier Automata to do well on PC, just cause that's not a very popular type of game on PC. 700,000 on PC compared to over 1 million on PS4.

https://steamspy.com/app/524220

MacOS has the cool factor...

Who considers using a Mac... cool?

Linux has neither and I would completely agree fragmentation alone can be a big detractor.

The fragmentation is a pro, not a con. When a Linux distro sucks, you just switch to another one. When a Windows OS sucks, you continue to use it or keep an older version. Like people did with Vista and Windows 8.

Fragmentation is only a problem when too many people are spread out evenly. The overwhelming majority use Mint, Debian, and Ubuntu with Manjaro thrown to the side. Other than Manjaro, the rest are all based on Debian.

Android has the same issue imo, just documenting settings/howtos can be a nightmare when everyone decides to just do something simple like label everything differently. Does this mean its a crappy OS? Not at all it just will stay a niche product and not take over the "desktop" as we know it today.

Yet Android dwarfs iOS. Yet iOS has more consistency than Android. Correlation does not equal causation here.

Microsoft is trying to push their customers to the cloud but also get their OS to operate more like Linux/Andreoid and iOS with simpler update system, allowing a bit more agility and less fragmentation etc.

Everyone wants to complain about Windows 10 updates, personally I see it as an improvement with bumps in the road to get there. Sorta like Vista's driver issues at first, once vendors got their act together it was a perfectly serviceable OS (around sp1).

Windows update to this day still forces me to reboot without giving me a warning. Just gives me a time to choose. There's no "I'll restart when I fucking feel like it".

 

[BulletDust]

First issue - Installer demands username be in lowercase, but only tells the user that the name is invalid - does not state why, leading to annoying attempts at multiple username entries until one is acceptable.

The username under any UNIX based OS is always lowercase, this isn't an issue so much as a lack of familiarity with anything but Windows. The name displayed can be a mix of uppercase and lowercase, but the username is always lowercase as UNIX operating systems are case sensitive.

Second Issue - First attempt after installing to set my monitor to it's correct refresh rate of 120Hz, resulted in two blank monitors and forced me to reboot the machine to regain a UI.

And did you achieve 120Hz on reboot? What graphics were you using? What drivers were you using? This issue may be what resuilted in your issues below - But it's impossible to know as you haven't provided any specifics and for all we know you're running Nvidia with Nouveau; Which is no different to Nvidia with the default Windows drivers under Windows 10.

Once again, unfamilarity is what you are experiencing here - There is no prerequesite for every OS to behave identically to Windows. The first time I installed Windows 10 I installed the Nvidia drivers and rebooted to a black screen with a blinking cursor.

Third Issue - No Accel options in the menus whatsoever, exactly the same problem as in Ubuntu in order to resolve.

First result in a Google search, no different to the numerous times you need to edit something under the Windows registry as effectively Linux uses a more logical approach to the registry called folders and plain text files. This is literally a 'piss easy' fix that I expect anyone on the [H] Forums to be able to handle and can all be done using a text editor via the GUI. Once again, no prerequisite to behave identically to Windows

https://solus-project.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2615

Fourth Issue - Doing the initial round of updates logged me out of my session without warning and closed all open programs in doing so. Would not want to use an OS as a daily driver if doing updates has a chance of randomly kicking me out of my session like that - particularly not in a work environment.

What?! By default Solus logs you out after 15 or so mins of inactivity when the screen turns itself off, I've never seen it close open applications once logged back in however and the updater is absoultely fantastic compared to that mess under Windows 10 - If you trust that abortion, you are a naive fool!

I installed Solus Budgie on my loaner PC (yes, I make people use Linux as I'm not paying for a Windows license for a loaner PC that people are just going to infect with every form of malware, viruses and PUP's they can find if running Windows as Windows is a literal cesspool and I want to see how people cope with Solus. No one's ever had any issue whatsoever, in fact they love it) I never encountered any of these issues. However I never installed Linux in order to deliberately find faults and take a dump on Linux. This is another reason Linux users get an attitude, Windows users that dump on Linux as newbies as it's not a Windows clone.

UPDATE

I installed Solus Linux and took it for a spin. It took me less than an hour to subsequently make it unusably broken, and I didn't have to install a single program, or enter the command line. All I had to do was install all available updates and reboot!

Before that though, the other issues:

First issue - Installer demands username be in lowercase, but only tells the user that the name is invalid - does not state why, leading to annoying attempts at multiple username entries until one is acceptable.

Second Issue - First attempt after installing to set my monitor to it's correct refresh rate of 120Hz, resulted in two blank monitors and forced me to reboot the machine to regain a UI.

Third Issue - No Accel options in the menus whatsoever, exactly the same problem as in Ubuntu in order to resolve.

Fourth Issue - Doing the initial round of updates logged me out of my session without warning and closed all open programs in doing so. Would not want to use an OS as a daily driver if doing updates has a chance of randomly kicking me out of my session like that - particularly not in a work environment.

Fifth Issue - After Installing the OS, Installing Updates, and Rebooting, superkey+left/right no longer worked at all, and my desktop background was solid black, even after manually attempting to change it to one of the preinstalled backgrounds.

Sixth Issue - Again, after the first round of updates, superkey did not behave properly at all - it no longer opens the menu - although pressing it does close the menu, which makes me think superkey is now bound incorrectly. Update: Confirmed, Super+Space is now nonfunctional - even with multiple input languages enabled it will not cycle through them. Opening onscreen keyboard shows the key registering but nothing occurs in response.

Seventh Issue - I just pressed the button to pop out the notification menu (Raven). It has a power icon in it. I pressed this power icon to turn the machine off and nothing happened. I opened the menu again and went to press the button again, but each time I tried the menu closed itself immediately.

Eighth Issue - I am now trying to log into hardforum from this install. Even though I have selected the firefox window, it is not possible to log in - every time I type anything it types the letters into the text document I'm writing this post in. G fucking G Solus. You are now officially un-usable and it has taken me less than an hour since installing you, having done nothing but RUN YOUR OWN UPDATER.

I have no idea just what you've done here. I can only assume you stuffed the updating process - Congratulations, that's literally impossible to do, at least I've never even got close to doing it. For the record, I'm an xbuntu user and I've still had no issues with Solus on the loaner.

I'm not blaming the user, I'm stating a lack of familiarity was your issue - Which stands to perfect reason. But don't install Linux with every intention of simply taking a dump on it, if that's all you want to do keep using Windows.

 

[ManofGod]

UPDATE

I installed Solus Linux and took it for a spin. It took me less than an hour to subsequently make it unusably broken, and I didn't have to install a single program, or enter the command line. All I had to do was install all available updates and reboot!

Before that though, the other issues:

First issue - Installer demands username be in lowercase, but only tells the user that the name is invalid - does not state why, leading to annoying attempts at multiple username entries until one is acceptable.

Second Issue - First attempt after installing to set my monitor to it's correct refresh rate of 120Hz, resulted in two blank monitors and forced me to reboot the machine to regain a UI.

Third Issue - No Accel options in the menus whatsoever, exactly the same problem as in Ubuntu in order to resolve.

Fourth Issue - Doing the initial round of updates logged me out of my session without warning and closed all open programs in doing so. Would not want to use an OS as a daily driver if doing updates has a chance of randomly kicking me out of my session like that - particularly not in a work environment.

Fifth Issue - After Installing the OS, Installing Updates, and Rebooting, superkey+left/right no longer worked at all, and my desktop background was solid black, even after manually attempting to change it to one of the preinstalled backgrounds.

Sixth Issue - Again, after the first round of updates, superkey did not behave properly at all - it no longer opens the menu - although pressing it does close the menu, which makes me think superkey is now bound incorrectly. Update: Confirmed, Super+Space is now nonfunctional - even with multiple input languages enabled it will not cycle through them. Opening onscreen keyboard shows the key registering but nothing occurs in response.

Seventh Issue - I just pressed the button to pop out the notification menu (Raven). It has a power icon in it. I pressed this power icon to turn the machine off and nothing happened. I opened the menu again and went to press the button again, but each time I tried the menu closed itself immediately.

Eighth Issue - I am now trying to log into hardforum from this install. Even though I have selected the firefox window, it is not possible to log in - every time I type anything it types the letters into the text document I'm writing this post in. G fucking G Solus. You are now officially un-usable and it has taken me less than an hour since installing you, having done nothing but RUN YOUR OWN UPDATER.

But, but, but.....NOOB! /joking Linux Desktop knows what it will take to fix it and the community refuses to hear it. When all a group of someone's do is blame and shift, nothing changes.

 

[BulletDust]

But, but, but.....NOOB! /joking Linux Desktop knows what it will take to fix it and the community refuses to hear it. When all a group of someone's do is blame and shift, nothing changes.

Who's shifting blame?

 

[naib]

The username under any UNIX based OS is always lowercase, this isn't an issue so much as a lack of familiarity with anything but Windows. The name displayed can be a mix of uppercase and lowercase, but the username is always lowercase as UNIX operating systems are case sensitive.

Not actually true. Shadowutils (the one that actually deals with username-passwd checking ) makes use of this regex for valid username..


[a-zA-Z0-9_.][a-zA-Z0-9_.-]{0,30}[a-zA-Z0-9_.$-]?

An uppercase username should be excepted. Which means a possible bug with shadow, bug in Solus or it is a systemd setup and pottering is dicking around with username again to hide a systemd bug...

I am not near my Gentoo box to try


--edit--
Checking shadowutils gitlog so it could be a version thing

- Usernames must start with a lower case letter or an underscore,
- followed by lower case letters, digits, underscores, or dashes.
- They can end with a dollar sign.
- In regular expression terms: [a-z_][a-z0-9_-]*[$]?


https://gist.github.com/bloerwald/a482791395114fa82636e2ab207cdb11

Debian and Debian derivatives follow bad rules which is lowercase only
([a-z_][a-z0-9_]{0,30})

 

[BulletDust]

Not actually true. Shadowutils (the one that actually deals with username-passwd checking ) makes use of this regex for valid username..


[a-zA-Z0-9_.][a-zA-Z0-9_.-]{0,30}[a-zA-Z0-9_.$-]?

An uppercase username should be excepted. Which means a possible bug with shadow, bug in Solus or it is a systemd setup and pottering is dicking around with username again to hide a systemd bug...

I am not near my Gentoo box to try

Every distro I've used insists on a lowercase username, every one. You can display a mix and have the option to do so, but as shown below the actual username must be lowercase under every distro I've used.

 

[niconx]

Lack of binary compatibility doesn't help. Commercial developers don't want to hand out their code so you can recompile it every time there is an update to dependencies.

 

[naib]

Every distro I've used insists on a lowercase username, every one. You can display a mix and have the option to do so, but as shown below the actual username must be lowercase under every distro I've used.

The usersdd script artificially restricts the creating rules. Adduser is wider.

Shadowutils accepts a very wide ruleset on usernames. POSIX equally has a wide set

A string that is used to identify a user; see also User Database. To be portable across systems conforming to POSIX.1-2008, the value is composed of characters from the portable filename character set. The <hyphen> character should not be used as the first character of a portable user name.

http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/basedefs/V1_chap03.html#tag_03_431

This is one area (and this type of thing) is valid criticism of Linux.. inconsistency across distro's creates artificial compatibility concerns.

Debian and derivatives have a very obnoxious policy of patching the fsck out of applications because they don't like something (removing short options from python . ). This is another example.

As I said, I am not near my Gentoo box and Gentoo uses upstream source directly and only patches when there are build issues

 

[naib]

Lack of binary compatibility doesn't help. Commercial developers don't want to hand out their code so you can recompile it every time there is an update to dependencies.

That is not as much of an issue as the FUD makes it sound. Windows has this issue and survives. Linux can be shipped with libraries if an incompatibility arrises... I have never had an issue with MATLAB and I run that on a work ubuntu box. Ubuntu is up to date but has R2017b and R14 and both run fine

 

[sadsteve]

Lack of support for applications and poorer performance in many cases. That's why I have not switched. There was a perfect opportunity with Vista, 8, and again with 10 (in some instances) for Linux to gain market share.

But the fragmentation is something I mentioned before. Rather than developers working together they are all split up making different distros with minor differences rather than trying to make only a few distros much better.

Hm, I don't notice poor performance under Linux (I dual boot Devuan Linux and Windows 10). In fact, my mail client (Thunderbird) loads much faster under Linux than it does under Windows 10. With Firefox Quantum, it appears to be a wash but that's more likely related to the internet connection and the speed of the target websites.

 

[sadsteve]

software isn't the issue it's much easier to get it, and plenty of startups would love to have first dip in a new software suit eco-system, and i wouldn't be surpised if microsoft is one of them, beside google is there already on linux sheet slide, drive,...etc
the one and only obstacle is gaming, if linux garbs all the new releases, it will will boost it's install base singnificantly and everything else will fall into place very quickly.


i installed win10 only last month, because i was forced to do so since i changed my rig to Ryzen, and within the first week i had the bug of the broken start menu, a bug that exists since 2015 and that is not yet fixed, i tried every tip i found, but the fix is temporary since i get it back after every reboot or so.
the compelling reason is to get rid of the monopoly, for ppl to have a choice of what OS they wanna use, so that companies doesn't force changes down your throat without giving a fak, so that the competition pushes them to really improve and fixe their products.

Just install Classic Shell and ignore the crappy Win 10 start menu.

 

[GlacierNine]

The username under any UNIX based OS is always lowercase, this isn't an issue so much as a lack of familiarity with anything but Windows. The name displayed can be a mix of uppercase and lowercase, but the username is always lowercase as UNIX operating systems are case sensitive.

I'm aware of why it requires lowercase, but this is objectively a UI failure - it says you have errored without providing any information as to what you need to do to fix the problem.

And did you achieve 120Hz on reboot? What graphics were you using? What drivers were you using? This issue may be what resuilted in your issues below - But it's impossible to know as you haven't provided any specifics and for all we know you're running Nvidia with Nouveau; Which is no different to Nvidia with the default Windows drivers under Windows 10.

Once again, unfamilarity is what you are experiencing here - There is no prerequesite for every OS to behave identically to Windows. The first time I installed Windows 10 I installed the Nvidia drivers and rebooted to a black screen with a blinking cursor.

No, the machine was set to 60Hz upon reboot. This was on the stock drivers, however the issue is that even in the event of this problem, under windows I would have waited 15 seconds, the mode would have reset without my input, and I would have been able to continue using the computer. Solus simply sets the mode then if it fails the user has no option but to reboot the machine completely. Windows solution is objectively better here.

First result in a Google search, no different to the numerous times you need to edit something under the Windows registry as effectively Linux uses a more logical approach to the registry called folders and plain text files. This is literally a 'piss easy' fix that I expect anyone on the [H] Forums to be able to handle and can all be done using a text editor via the GUI. Once again, no prerequisite to behave identically to Windows

https://solus-project.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2615

Except we're not talking about "Anyone on the [H] forums". We're talking about "The year of Linux on the Desktop", and we've already discussed why this attitude holds linux back from ever having a year on the desktop.

What?! By default Solus logs you out after 15 or so mins of inactivity when the screen turns itself off, I've never seen it close open applications once logged back in however and the updater is absoultely fantastic compared to that mess under Windows 10 - If you trust that abortion, you are a naive fool!

I installed Solus Budgie on my loaner PC (yes, I make people use Linux as I'm not paying for a Windows license for a loaner PC that people are just going to infect with every form of malware, viruses and PUP's they can find if running Windows as Windows is a literal cesspool and I want to see how people cope with Solus. No one's ever had any issue whatsoever, in fact they love it) I never encountered any of these issues. However I never installed Linux in order to deliberately find faults and take a dump on Linux. This is another reason Linux users get an attitude, Windows users that dump on Linux as newbies as it's not a Windows clone.

I installed Solus because you told everyone in this thread that it was simpler than Windows. I had a clean, brand new install, which I told to do updates while I did three things - 1 - Had a text file open 2 - Had Firefox open 3 - Looked in the settings menus.

What I got out of it was that Solus logged me out of my session and demanded my password again, then dumped me onto a black desktop with no background image, with the text file and firefox window closed, and with the superkey no longer working properly.

I have no idea just what you've done here. I can only assume you stuffed the updating process - Congratulations, that's literally impossible to do, at least I've never even got close to doing it. For the record, I'm an xbuntu user and I've still had no issues with Solus on the loaner.

I'm not blaming the user, I'm stating a lack of familiarity was your issue - Which stands to perfect reason. But don't install Linux with every intention of simply taking a dump on it, if that's all you want to do keep using Windows.

The thing is, on a mature OS worth giving any shits about, I'd have simply looked around and found some minor issues of no real importance, if Solus were as good as you say it is.

Instead of that however, I literally ended up with a broken install in less than an hour, having done nothing but web browse, poke around the mouse settings, and open/save a text file.

As far as I'm concerned, that means Solus is not ready to be considered a mature, stable OS.

 

[GlacierNine]

I'd also point out that the reason I was prepared to waste my time doing this is because there was never any doubt in my mind whatsoever that I would, within minutes of installing the distro, find at least some minor issues. Frankly considering my intention was to do so, I was just lucky that the OS literally nuked itself for no reason and gave me a much better argument than I could have hoped for.

 

[BulletDust]

I'd also point out that the reason I was prepared to waste my time doing this is because there was never any doubt in my mind whatsoever that I would, within minutes of installing the distro, find at least some minor issues. Frankly considering my intention was to do so, I was just lucky that the OS literally nuked itself for no reason and gave me a much better argument than I could have hoped for.

Exactly, you went out of your way to find issue with the OS - Of which there is none, in a blatant attempt to shit on Linux.

As for your complaint of the installer not telling you exactly why the text you entered was in error, like I said, this is inexperience with Linux. The username must be lowercase and as soon as you try to enter uppercase a cross appears letting you know that what you just entered is unacceptable.

I'm preparing screenshots now, going through the install process step by step - I bet I have no issues whatsoever.

I've had far, far more issues with Windows installs than Linux installs. Windows 10 updates are literally hopeless.

 

[GlacierNine]

Exactly, you went out of your way to find issue with the OS - Of which there is none

Except, you know, the fact it completely nuked itself because I had the audacity to run updates. That minor issue.

Also I'm sure you will have no issues installing it - I didn't either? The lack of clarity regarding case is a quality of life improvement the OS should have but doesn't. It was hardly something that stopped me in my tracks. What stopped me in my tracks was literally RUNNING THE INTEGRATED UPDATER.