HardOCP News
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Wired seems to think that file sharing will save Hollywood and the music industry, regardless what the RIAA and MPAA would have you believe.
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Why File Sharing Will Save Hollywood, Music
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MrLonghair
[H]ard|Gawd
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Wonder what Wired thinks "file sharing" (snort, laugh) will do to indie labels and small game developer houses.
you almost make it sound as if people are ants lol, but on a side note file sharing will allow companies to find out if they made a flop or a sale.
Lol this is like when Snoop was saying if your song wasn't being downloaded, you're in trouble.
That is bullshit.
#1 they have no way of knowing that
#2 nothing was really stolen
#3 they wouldn't have bought the game anyways
#4 blah blah blah
/end sarcasim
1. Yes they do, it's quite simple. Even TRIBES established these metrics.
2. Depends if you were the one paying for the bandwidth on both ends.
3. Depends on the games retail price. If it's super easy to pirate and you and friends are getting away with it, why bother to buy?
4. blah blah blah.
That can be blamed in-part to the fact that they released no demo for the game.
For some people, morals are not part of the equation... especially when the whole "it doesn't cost them anything" logic comes into play.
sfsuphysics
[H]F Junkie
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They didn't have a unique CD key or something to prevent this?
No matter what anyone thinks it should be, it IS illegal. I would hope most people's moral beliefs would include not breaking the law, but clearly that is not that case. It is only to not break the law when it is convient.
So what happens when cable / fiber speeds are fast enough to download a blu ray in five minutes.
The way I see it the only thing saving Hollywood is file size. Music fell first because downloading even uncompressed audio was trivial even ten years ago.
If the situation had been flipped and hypothetically video didn't have the same space requirements do you think Hollywood would be the same as it is today.
If Hollywood was smart movie theaters would become a thing of the past and they would have every single release " film " available to watch. Charge five bucks a movie, extend this to as many households as possible. Do the opposite of what the music industry did. If they just wait and file lawsuits they are going to lose control of the situation.
The way I see it the only thing saving Hollywood is file size. Music fell first because downloading even uncompressed audio was trivial even ten years ago.
If the situation had been flipped and hypothetically video didn't have the same space requirements do you think Hollywood would be the same as it is today.
If Hollywood was smart movie theaters would become a thing of the past and they would have every single release " film " available to watch. Charge five bucks a movie, extend this to as many households as possible. Do the opposite of what the music industry did. If they just wait and file lawsuits they are going to lose control of the situation.
KingPariah777
[H]ard|Gawd
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Media is free nowadays, whether you want to bloviate about "morals" or law, the reality of the situation is that media is free.
The only CD I have bought in the last 10 years is AC/DC's latest album, and that's because it was reasonably priced and I knew I would enjoy the entire work.
This is one area where the record companies and MPAA have to drastically alter their business model, because the status quo ISN'T WORKING.
The only CD I have bought in the last 10 years is AC/DC's latest album, and that's because it was reasonably priced and I knew I would enjoy the entire work.
This is one area where the record companies and MPAA have to drastically alter their business model, because the status quo ISN'T WORKING.
Shotglass01
[H]ard|Gawd
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The business model needs to change. I do think that artists and content creators need to be paid. But, they can't continue trying to do business as if it were 1980 when we all bought CD's. Those days are never coming back. And the same can be said of movies. I'm certain DVD's and even blue ray will be just as obsolete as CD's are today.
This is also an interesting article:
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2345526,00.asp
This is also an interesting article:
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2345526,00.asp
MrLonghair
[H]ard|Gawd
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Demigod has CD keys and a CD key check. The game calls home to verify, and 18k were legit. Most of the people I see asking for Demigod multiplayer rounds on various forums, as if by magic, want to arrange it via Hamachi only.
Not only did they not release a demo, as brought up,, but they also screwed something up so that Europes releasedate of Demigod was set into.. hell I don't know, "later". That's a great way to ask for people to pirate your game, I remember Doom 3 in prticular was out two weeks after the US release here, claiming issues in pressing enough discs or whatever it was.
I don't recall that game being translated for European releases. I would sails the seven seas with Wii games if I had mine chipped because fuck waiting over half a year for three little countries too precious and sensitive to learn a few English words to get everything subbed and dubbed into their own little languages and fuck region "protection" on consoles.
Not only did they not release a demo, as brought up,, but they also screwed something up so that Europes releasedate of Demigod was set into.. hell I don't know, "later". That's a great way to ask for people to pirate your game, I remember Doom 3 in prticular was out two weeks after the US release here, claiming issues in pressing enough discs or whatever it was.
I don't recall that game being translated for European releases. I would sails the seven seas with Wii games if I had mine chipped because fuck waiting over half a year for three little countries too precious and sensitive to learn a few English words to get everything subbed and dubbed into their own little languages and fuck region "protection" on consoles.
Lets just hope Law catches up with reality sometime this century.
/tangent
As a tangent, this, along with many other "old business models" are reason enough, I believe, to include a top-end age limit in politics and Law. There is already a low-end age limit, so I don't think it's unreasonable to say "you are too old to continue making laws and decisions for a country that has progressed past your ideals" and should be forced into retirement. Or at least forced out of Law and politics.
/endtangent
/tangent
As a tangent, this, along with many other "old business models" are reason enough, I believe, to include a top-end age limit in politics and Law. There is already a low-end age limit, so I don't think it's unreasonable to say "you are too old to continue making laws and decisions for a country that has progressed past your ideals" and should be forced into retirement. Or at least forced out of Law and politics.
/endtangent
If it is a game I like I'll buy it after trying it.
Same for TV show. I rarely watch a show when it comes on. I'll DL'ed it and keep that copy until the DVD comes out and then buy the DVD set. Am I stealing if I have a DL copy from a torrent site and the DVD?
Increase their exposure for legit sales in a way that was all but impossible only a few years ago?
2DBoy wins that fight with 90% on World of Goo, and still came out against DRM.
Also, here's what Stardock has to say about the number of Demigod copies being pirated:
"Brad Wardell, CEO of Stardock: We know that piracy exists in massive levels. We don't put any copy protection on our retail CDs. We do know, because our games connect to our servers, how many people are playing the pirated version. It's huge. I mean HUGE.
Demigod may be the most popular[my note: illegally downloaded] game in a very long time based on the numbers we're seeing. That said, our position has been that 98 percent of those people would never have bought the game. I don't want to do anything that inconveniences our legitimate customers because even if I stop all piracy, I don't agree that it would noticably increase our sales.
Piracy is more of an annoying thing. It's an ego thing. You put your heart and soul into a game and you see someone playing it online who stole it. It pisses you off. You're just really mad. You have to take a step back and say, "if you had stopped them from pirating it, would they have bought it?" The answer is probably no. "
DukenukemX
Supreme [H]ardness
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What piracy has shown is that corporations have to eventually learn to compete with it, rather then stopping it. For ever time they fight piracy it only makes things worse.
For example Hulu got the right idea by streaming TV shows for free. There are lots of people who illegally download TV shows they missed, don't have in their country, or just can't afford it. The only real alternative was Bit Torrent, but Hulu might just be a better alternative all together.
The worst is yet to come, for every time companies tried to fight piracy then something worse would pop up. Downfall of P2P like Kazaa and Napster lead to bit torrent, which now accounts for ~50% of internet traffic.
The next big thing in P2P would have to be Anonymous P2P and encryption.
For example Hulu got the right idea by streaming TV shows for free. There are lots of people who illegally download TV shows they missed, don't have in their country, or just can't afford it. The only real alternative was Bit Torrent, but Hulu might just be a better alternative all together.
The worst is yet to come, for every time companies tried to fight piracy then something worse would pop up. Downfall of P2P like Kazaa and Napster lead to bit torrent, which now accounts for ~50% of internet traffic.
The next big thing in P2P would have to be Anonymous P2P and encryption.
sfsuphysics
[H]F Junkie
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So the "pirates" were not using any resources outside of their own to play multiplayer? Sounds like there's not that large of a loss to them then.
PS could be the game sucks too and that's the real reason no one is buying it.. *shrug*
The game auto check for an update. Which is all the pirated copies did. They werent playing online, just choking the servers, launching the game and it tried to update. At least thats what I read about it.
//[T.0.P]//
Limp Gawd
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Maybe, companies are thinking, "Sales are good as usual, but for the people who pirate our merchandise, what if we made money off them too? Think of the profits!". So it's now a very big issue. Dunno. Just a thought.
However, especially with music and games: Seems like most people like settling for less. A pirated game that could of been compiled by a third party or with music, downloading lossy mp3s. With music, though, most people are near deaf to quality. So saying mp3 sounds just as good as an uncompressed wav is not unusual.
However, especially with music and games: Seems like most people like settling for less. A pirated game that could of been compiled by a third party or with music, downloading lossy mp3s. With music, though, most people are near deaf to quality. So saying mp3 sounds just as good as an uncompressed wav is not unusual.
I gotta ask you guys.
How many games can you guys afford per month ?
I cant afford one anymore, HOW should i be able to afford it ?
Students are the kind of people who download more than any other type of persons, except hobby downloaders with 20 TB.
How should theese afford a game ?
A HD4770 will cost the same as a game in norway.... to put things into perspective, Steam had a great offer, but they just made games more expensive than the shops.. ROFL!
They changed to euro in norway, and it got expensive, lol.
Change prices, then we buy, i havnt seen this happen... EVER!
Music, 1 dollar per song is still expensive, i dont even know of a music store where i live, i have to travel 2 hours to get to a good music store who even have metal.
So, i want premium quality, like flac, noone have it, good thing spotify exists, not in usa yet.
Its gonna be a filesharing killer i dont download much music anymore.
So, they cant fill the demand for material people wants, nor prices, nor avaibility.
So why do they complain about piracy then, we simply made something that they havnt created.
How many games can you guys afford per month ?
I cant afford one anymore, HOW should i be able to afford it ?
Students are the kind of people who download more than any other type of persons, except hobby downloaders with 20 TB.
How should theese afford a game ?
A HD4770 will cost the same as a game in norway.... to put things into perspective, Steam had a great offer, but they just made games more expensive than the shops.. ROFL!
They changed to euro in norway, and it got expensive, lol.
Change prices, then we buy, i havnt seen this happen... EVER!
Music, 1 dollar per song is still expensive, i dont even know of a music store where i live, i have to travel 2 hours to get to a good music store who even have metal.
So, i want premium quality, like flac, noone have it, good thing spotify exists, not in usa yet.
Its gonna be a filesharing killer
i dont download much music anymore.So, they cant fill the demand for material people wants, nor prices, nor avaibility.
So why do they complain about piracy then, we simply made something that they havnt created.
KayossZero
Limp Gawd
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- Mar 8, 2003
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- 420
Precisely, I suppose ISP's have a greater call to anger because so much bandwidth is used on P2P but honestly when douche bag companies advertise as unlimited internet but have hidden caps I don't give a fuck, also saying in a ToS it's illegal for me to host a server for my friends is another spiel I couldn't care less about.
clarkkent57
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2007
- Messages
- 467
Doubtful anyone will read this, but here goes...
There's no "complete" solution to piracy, and the MPAA and RIAA need to accept this. There IS however, an easy way to curtail the problem, the best they can, and that is to embrace current and future technology and realistically compete. Until they overhaul their own business, they've got no legitimate complaint.
To make "pay for view / listen" work, they need to make what people want as easily accessible and inexpensive as possible.
Accessibility isn't a problem; as we've seen with so many products available through links, it definitely pays to pay a small fee to the link providers to promote/advertise a product.
Cost, however, is often a limiting factor. For example, if a 12 song CD is available for purchase for $12.00, then I can purchase the CD for $1.00 per song, but I am also paying for the cost to manufacture and distribute (shipping, stocking, etc) the CD, and, the fact is, I probably don't want all the songs on the CD. (Unless, it's an album on par with, say, Abbey Road or The Dark Side Of The Moon, in which "whole album integrity" is crucial to the whole listening experience.)
However, there is no end to the number of entities that will make me pay .99 to 1.99 for the specific songs I want, in digital form, though the cost of manufacture is nil, and the cost to distribute has been severely reduced to ALMOST nothing. (Case in point: When CDs/DVDs were first realeased, why did they cost more than tapes, when they were cheaper to produce and package?)
If the entertainment industry wants to compete, then they need to reduce the cost of the product to the point where they recoup the same amount of profit per song as they would through CD sales, eliminating the jacked-up overhead costs that don't exist with a digital downloadable product.
They also need to increase accessibility through legitimate, easy-to-access sites that promote this music, and genuine recommendations based upon the users' choices. Of course, it also helps their sales by allowing the prospective buyer to listen to sample bytes of songs as well, samples which contain enough of the "hooks" of the songs. (For movies/TV programs, there's no need for sampling.) Record shops of the 40's through 60's prove this approach works.
From the artists' end (and I'm a published songwriter), they'd still get their share of royalties, but they'd also be more inspired to write less "filler" material, and put more effort into their released songs as well. (I mean, if you look at a lot of commercially available music these days, many established bands could never be a able to "break in" with the music they're currently producing.) For actual songwriters looking to break into the emergent business, this would be a real boon, as established, signed artists would look for genuinely good music to record from a (still) relatively untapped resource. (Also bear in mind that signed bands usually make more from their concert tours than the record contracts and sales.)
The same principle applies with film. If Hollywood would severely curtail the amount of drivel they release in the form of formulaic and over-hyped movies, we'd be more likely to digitally rent or buy the wares they hawk.
When you really don't know what you're going to get when you are going to get in the way of entertainment, or worse, relatively assured that most of it is sub-standard, you're likely to be more inspired to try to get it for free. (Using this approach, it's still quite likely you'd buy something you find that you love.)
Lastly, if the MPAA and RIAA are going to publicize this as if it's "forbidden fruit," then people will be even more desirous of "beating the system" as well. NOTHING inpspires people more to be told that they can't do something when, in fact, there are little chances (if any) of getting caught and punished. Don't believe me? Keep your eyes out for people who do stupid, selfish things in traffic when there aren't any police around.)
(Hey, for what it's worth I've got undergrad degrees in digital media and clinical psychology (both with honors from a top university) as well as a PhD in Public Relations.)
There's no "complete" solution to piracy, and the MPAA and RIAA need to accept this. There IS however, an easy way to curtail the problem, the best they can, and that is to embrace current and future technology and realistically compete. Until they overhaul their own business, they've got no legitimate complaint.
To make "pay for view / listen" work, they need to make what people want as easily accessible and inexpensive as possible.
Accessibility isn't a problem; as we've seen with so many products available through links, it definitely pays to pay a small fee to the link providers to promote/advertise a product.
Cost, however, is often a limiting factor. For example, if a 12 song CD is available for purchase for $12.00, then I can purchase the CD for $1.00 per song, but I am also paying for the cost to manufacture and distribute (shipping, stocking, etc) the CD, and, the fact is, I probably don't want all the songs on the CD. (Unless, it's an album on par with, say, Abbey Road or The Dark Side Of The Moon, in which "whole album integrity" is crucial to the whole listening experience.)
However, there is no end to the number of entities that will make me pay .99 to 1.99 for the specific songs I want, in digital form, though the cost of manufacture is nil, and the cost to distribute has been severely reduced to ALMOST nothing. (Case in point: When CDs/DVDs were first realeased, why did they cost more than tapes, when they were cheaper to produce and package?)
If the entertainment industry wants to compete, then they need to reduce the cost of the product to the point where they recoup the same amount of profit per song as they would through CD sales, eliminating the jacked-up overhead costs that don't exist with a digital downloadable product.
They also need to increase accessibility through legitimate, easy-to-access sites that promote this music, and genuine recommendations based upon the users' choices. Of course, it also helps their sales by allowing the prospective buyer to listen to sample bytes of songs as well, samples which contain enough of the "hooks" of the songs. (For movies/TV programs, there's no need for sampling.) Record shops of the 40's through 60's prove this approach works.
From the artists' end (and I'm a published songwriter), they'd still get their share of royalties, but they'd also be more inspired to write less "filler" material, and put more effort into their released songs as well. (I mean, if you look at a lot of commercially available music these days, many established bands could never be a able to "break in" with the music they're currently producing.) For actual songwriters looking to break into the emergent business, this would be a real boon, as established, signed artists would look for genuinely good music to record from a (still) relatively untapped resource. (Also bear in mind that signed bands usually make more from their concert tours than the record contracts and sales.)
The same principle applies with film. If Hollywood would severely curtail the amount of drivel they release in the form of formulaic and over-hyped movies, we'd be more likely to digitally rent or buy the wares they hawk.
When you really don't know what you're going to get when you are going to get in the way of entertainment, or worse, relatively assured that most of it is sub-standard, you're likely to be more inspired to try to get it for free. (Using this approach, it's still quite likely you'd buy something you find that you love.)
Lastly, if the MPAA and RIAA are going to publicize this as if it's "forbidden fruit," then people will be even more desirous of "beating the system" as well. NOTHING inpspires people more to be told that they can't do something when, in fact, there are little chances (if any) of getting caught and punished. Don't believe me? Keep your eyes out for people who do stupid, selfish things in traffic when there aren't any police around.)
(Hey, for what it's worth I've got undergrad degrees in digital media and clinical psychology (both with honors from a top university) as well as a PhD in Public Relations.)