Why don't PC cases have 5.25" external drive bays anymore?

LukeTbk

Weaksauce
Joined
Sep 10, 2020
Messages
70
Anti-Physical Media rhetoric is simply a way to make sure companies benefit from all sales so that used sales disappear.
I am not sure of that, the movie and music industry revenues peak was by a good amount during the CD and DVD craze of their respective era and I imagine they would have loved for it to never end, they had just no choice to compete with competition offering it (like pirated content) to offer something even more convenient than simply pirating and at an extremely low price. That it is possible to control resseling (and really they have no choice to control it a bit, considering just how much a digital resel market could look like totally open) is a side effect, I think they were forced into post physical media, not something they embraced at all, they even resisted it as much as they could because of just giant money the CD and DVD eras where, it is not like people in the industry like that people now expect only agree to pay a small spotify fee for all the music in the world instead of buying CD or Netflix instead of Dvds, they just do not have any choice.
 

sphinx99

Gawd
Joined
Dec 23, 2006
Messages
837
I love this grand new era of music on demand. My only wish is for a mechanism to purchase persistence. For example, let's say I had my $10/month unlimited music streaming subscription. (Spotify, Apple, etc.) If for say $0.05 I could tag a song to stay with me for x devices in perpetuity, as insurance against that song disappearing as a result of licensing or other issues, I'd call that a screaming bargain.

As to 5.25" bays I must be one of the few remaining true believers although my motivations are a bit different. I've found burners to be useful for the following purposes:
- burning important data to m-disc to toss in a safety deposit box
- creating discs to facilitate having fun with vintage / retro hardware
- creating basic DVDs for elderly in-laws... in particular, I've been digitizing my wife's family video tapes (quite a mix: beta, VHS, video2000, video8 and Hi8...) and DVD video is precisely the format they want to hold onto these with. Zero chance that they would be comfortable with family videos "in the cloud"
 

merid14

Weaksauce
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
107
Thought this was an interesting post as I discovered Recently that most cases didn’t have 5.25 drives. Apparently it’s for better air flow and sleeker looks. I’m completely fine with this because I can’t tell you the last time I actually used the drive. I have an external already... that I’ve never used.
 

lopoetve

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 11, 2001
Messages
30,132
I love this grand new era of music on demand. My only wish is for a mechanism to purchase persistence. For example, let's say I had my $10/month unlimited music streaming subscription. (Spotify, Apple, etc.) If for say $0.05 I could tag a song to stay with me for x devices in perpetuity, as insurance against that song disappearing as a result of licensing or other issues, I'd call that a screaming bargain.

As to 5.25" bays I must be one of the few remaining true believers although my motivations are a bit different. I've found burners to be useful for the following purposes:
- burning important data to m-disc to toss in a safety deposit box
- creating discs to facilitate having fun with vintage / retro hardware
- creating basic DVDs for elderly in-laws... in particular, I've been digitizing my wife's family video tapes (quite a mix: beta, VHS, video2000, video8 and Hi8...) and DVD video is precisely the format they want to hold onto these with. Zero chance that they would be comfortable with family videos "in the cloud"
Careful, CDR and DVDR don’t last that long. They’re not long term stable media.
 

SmokeRngs

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - April 2008
Joined
Aug 9, 2001
Messages
16,671
Jesus, I feel like it's 1988 all over again. BTW, this song ordering shit really only matters on tapes. For digital storage like CD's, we've always been able to skip ahead or even go directly to numbered tracks. I disagree about the last part. Though few people I know carefully order tracks with any layout in mind the same as people probably didn't do it as often as you think they did. Stuff probably got added to many mixtapes when things came to mind, not in any particular order.
I disagree strongly here. While I have anecdotal evidence only, I do have evidence otherwise.

The reason most people don't seem to care about track order is because they simply toss a bunch of songs in a playlist and don't bother to order them in any way. I do the exact opposite and always have. There should be a flow to music from track to track and I'll spend the time to make that happen. Additionally I typically build a playlist/CD as a sort of theme or subject and orient the track order to mesh properly. It takes extra time to do so but the results are quite superior. I've lost count of the number of people over the years who compliment me on my selection of tracks and track order on mix CDs I've made. I simply tell them what I said here. I come up with a theme or subject for the CD, choose songs which fit and then order them in a way that one song flows to the next. Sometimes that flow will be song subject matter or just simply that the tempo or sound of one song flows into the next. The flow from one song to the next doesn't always mean the transition is smooth but instead startling.

An example of subject is one I ran into by accident. Two country songs from the 90s by different artists tell what sounds like two sides of the same story. Neither song actually has anything to do with the other but the subject matter makes is sound as if it is. Confederate Railroad's Queen of Memphis and Pam Tillis' Maybe It Was Memphis. I've gotten quite a few comments over the years about having those two songs back to back.

An example of a startling transition I've used a couple of times is The Who's Who Are You. I have a habit of putting that song just after another song which tends to end sedately or quietly with a long, slow, quiet finish. When Who Are You comes on and the volume is turned up a bit it can startle people and produces a positive reaction.

The problem nowadays is that people simply throw a ton of tracks into a playlist and hit random or shuffle and that's all they're used to. There's no attempt at any sort of track order because it's random and you miss some experience when listening. What this amounts to in most cases is that people tend to skip song after song until they finally find something else in the playlist they want to listen to, at least when they're paying attention to the music.

I finally upgraded the head unit I've been using for over twenty years and which has been in three different vehicles. The current one has BT and USB connections so I can have my phone connected for Spotify, Pandora, phone playlists or simply a USB stick. Since I don't subscribe to any music services it's useless to use them since I can't skip tracks very often which mostly leaves me with the USB stick option for that. What I find myself doing is skipping tracks more often than I listen to tracks; much of the reason being a lousy flow from one track to the next. It's why I didn't get the cheaper version of the head unit without CD because I knew this would happen as the same thing happens on my computer when I have a large playlist on shuffle. I still listen to CDs I've made because it's a better listening experience.

This is also one of the reasons I stick to having 5.25 bays in my computer. I still burn CDs. I still rip DVDs and use DVDs for backup purposes.
Careful, CDR and DVDR don’t last that long. They’re not long term stable media.
Depends on what you mean by last long. I have some burned CDs more than 20 years old which still play perfectly. I don't remember when I got my first DVD burner but I know I've been doing backups with quality DVDs since at least 2006 and they all still work fine as I go through them occasionally to make sure they're still good.

It probably won't be too long before I also get a Bluray burner simply to redo all my backups and to make it easier to handle larger files for backup purposes.
 

matt167

Gawd
Joined
Dec 18, 2016
Messages
930
When I built my Ryzen 3600 system that is my current system, it was my first custom build since 2013. I HAD to have a case that had a 5.25" drive bay for a burner.. Now, the burner which was one out of one of my older computers quit working a while ago probably from not being used. I have ~6 working burners that I could swap one in but I have just not needed or wanted to yet
 

TheSlySyl

Gawd
Joined
May 30, 2018
Messages
571
I disagree strongly here. While I have anecdotal evidence only, I do have evidence otherwise.

The reason most people don't seem to care about track order is because they simply toss a bunch of songs in a playlist and don't bother to order them in any way. I do the exact opposite and always have. There should be a flow to music from track to track and I'll spend the time to make that happen. Additionally I typically build a playlist/CD as a sort of theme or subject and orient the track order to mesh properly. It takes extra time to do so but the results are quite superior. I've lost count of the number of people over the years who compliment me on my selection of tracks and track order on mix CDs I've made. I simply tell them what I said here. I come up with a theme or subject for the CD, choose songs which fit and then order them in a way that one song flows to the next. Sometimes that flow will be song subject matter or just simply that the tempo or sound of one song flows into the next. The flow from one song to the next doesn't always mean the transition is smooth but instead startling.

An example of subject is one I ran into by accident. Two country songs from the 90s by different artists tell what sounds like two sides of the same story. Neither song actually has anything to do with the other but the subject matter makes is sound as if it is. Confederate Railroad's Queen of Memphis and Pam Tillis' Maybe It Was Memphis. I've gotten quite a few comments over the years about having those two songs back to back.

An example of a startling transition I've used a couple of times is The Who's Who Are You. I have a habit of putting that song just after another song which tends to end sedately or quietly with a long, slow, quiet finish. When Who Are You comes on and the volume is turned up a bit it can startle people and produces a positive reaction.

The problem nowadays is that people simply throw a ton of tracks into a playlist and hit random or shuffle and that's all they're used to. There's no attempt at any sort of track order because it's random and you miss some experience when listening. What this amounts to in most cases is that people tend to skip song after song until they finally find something else in the playlist they want to listen to, at least when they're paying attention to the music.

I finally upgraded the head unit I've been using for over twenty years and which has been in three different vehicles. The current one has BT and USB connections so I can have my phone connected for Spotify, Pandora, phone playlists or simply a USB stick. Since I don't subscribe to any music services it's useless to use them since I can't skip tracks very often which mostly leaves me with the USB stick option for that. What I find myself doing is skipping tracks more often than I listen to tracks; much of the reason being a lousy flow from one track to the next. It's why I didn't get the cheaper version of the head unit without CD because I knew this would happen as the same thing happens on my computer when I have a large playlist on shuffle. I still listen to CDs I've made because it's a better listening experience.

This is also one of the reasons I stick to having 5.25 bays in my computer. I still burn CDs. I still rip DVDs and use DVDs for backup purposes.

Depends on what you mean by last long. I have some burned CDs more than 20 years old which still play perfectly. I don't remember when I got my first DVD burner but I know I've been doing backups with quality DVDs since at least 2006 and they all still work fine as I go through them occasionally to make sure they're still good.

It probably won't be too long before I also get a Bluray burner simply to redo all my backups and to make it easier to handle larger files for backup purposes.
Sounds like you need to invest in a personal media server. I've been using PLEX for years,I spent $70 on a lifelong plex pass like 5 years ago and it's been more than wonderful.

Love mine. I can do whatever the fuck I want with all of my own music and ripped movies/tv shows. Takes up less physical space than stacks of dvds, and I can have as much curated music (and audiobooks!) Set in either playlists or shuffle on my phone at any time. Also I can stream every single bit of media, regardless of what it is, to any device, anywhere, at any time.

My main thing is that I listen to music that won't ever be on music services. (Super small garage bands from my Punk days, lots of oldschool chip tune soundtracks, etc.) So I need my *own* streaming service. I have 500GB of music at this point.
(And 40TB of video)
 

Nobu

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
4,743
Fwiw, you can add playlists to usb sticks and cds (if they're formatted correctly) and some players will read and recognize them. Your head unit may not, but you can check the documentation to be sure.
 

compcons

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 25, 2006
Messages
152
Sounds like you need to invest in a personal media server. I've been using PLEX for years,I spent $70 on a lifelong plex pass like 5 years ago and it's been more than wonderful.

Love mine. I can do whatever the fuck I want with all of my own music and ripped movies/tv shows. Takes up less physical space than stacks of dvds, and I can have as much curated music (and audiobooks!) Set in either playlists or shuffle on my phone at any time. Also I can stream every single bit of media, regardless of what it is, to any device, anywhere, at any time.

My main thing is that I listen to music that won't ever be on music services. (Super small garage bands from my Punk days, lots of oldschool chip tune soundtracks, etc.) So I need my *own* streaming service. I have 500GB of music at this point.
(And 40TB of video)
This. Blu-ray movies ripped in full, stored in the NAS and watched through streaming software. No broadband required. The real value of the rip for me has been easily bringing a small library of 50-60 movies on an external USB drive along with a Roku while traveling so we have content to watch at night (or during storms). Broadband in hotels is usually pretty poor for streaming movies. Just bring the drive, Roku (don't forget the f__king remote!), and an HDMI cable. Good for work travel too but I usually have a laptop to connect to the TV.
 

lopoetve

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 11, 2001
Messages
30,132
This. Blu-ray movies ripped in full, stored in the NAS and watched through streaming software. No broadband required. The real value of the rip for me has been easily bringing a small library of 50-60 movies on an external USB drive along with a Roku while traveling so we have content to watch at night (or during storms). Broadband in hotels is usually pretty poor for streaming movies. Just bring the drive, Roku (don't forget the f__king remote!), and an HDMI cable. Good for work travel too but I usually have a laptop to connect to the TV.
Or a chrome cast and use your laptop to cast to it. Also works well
 

lopoetve

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 11, 2001
Messages
30,132
Doesn't that require the craprastic hotel wifi?

A lot of times that's still fine, since it's direct to the TV and not going to the web (cast from your laptop -> chromecast). Some you can connect direct to also. Bit smaller than carrying the Roku.
 

Dan_D

Extremely [H]
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
57,022
I disagree strongly here. While I have anecdotal evidence only, I do have evidence otherwise.

The reason most people don't seem to care about track order is because they simply toss a bunch of songs in a playlist and don't bother to order them in any way. I do the exact opposite and always have. There should be a flow to music from track to track and I'll spend the time to make that happen. Additionally I typically build a playlist/CD as a sort of theme or subject and orient the track order to mesh properly. It takes extra time to do so but the results are quite superior. I've lost count of the number of people over the years who compliment me on my selection of tracks and track order on mix CDs I've made. I simply tell them what I said here. I come up with a theme or subject for the CD, choose songs which fit and then order them in a way that one song flows to the next. Sometimes that flow will be song subject matter or just simply that the tempo or sound of one song flows into the next. The flow from one song to the next doesn't always mean the transition is smooth but instead startling.

Anecdotes aren't evidence. Simply put, while this is something that can be done, it's entirely optional and with digital media, we could always avoid it by skipping around the disc. More over, I disagree that this can't be done with a Spotify playlist, because people literally do this every day. These can be shared via streaming services like Spotify and I've been sent plenty of playlists that I can play in my car through Android Auto. It works no differently than if someone had sent me a CD they made with a collection of songs. If anything, its more convenient and the troubles with a car's player disliking certain media brands and things like that are gone.
An example of subject is one I ran into by accident. Two country songs from the 90s by different artists tell what sounds like two sides of the same story. Neither song actually has anything to do with the other but the subject matter makes is sound as if it is. Confederate Railroad's Queen of Memphis and Pam Tillis' Maybe It Was Memphis. I've gotten quite a few comments over the years about having those two songs back to back.

An example of a startling transition I've used a couple of times is The Who's Who Are You. I have a habit of putting that song just after another song which tends to end sedately or quietly with a long, slow, quiet finish. When Who Are You comes on and the volume is turned up a bit it can startle people and produces a positive reaction.

The problem nowadays is that people simply throw a ton of tracks into a playlist and hit random or shuffle and that's all they're used to. There's no attempt at any sort of track order because it's random and you miss some experience when listening. What this amounts to in most cases is that people tend to skip song after song until they finally find something else in the playlist they want to listen to, at least when they're paying attention to the music.

I have news for you, people who made mix tapes and what not back in the day often threw songs onto them with no thought beyond "I liked that song so I included it."

I finally upgraded the head unit I've been using for over twenty years and which has been in three different vehicles. The current one has BT and USB connections so I can have my phone connected for Spotify, Pandora, phone playlists or simply a USB stick. Since I don't subscribe to any music services it's useless to use them since I can't skip tracks very often which mostly leaves me with the USB stick option for that. What I find myself doing is skipping tracks more often than I listen to tracks; much of the reason being a lousy flow from one track to the next. It's why I didn't get the cheaper version of the head unit without CD because I knew this would happen as the same thing happens on my computer when I have a large playlist on shuffle. I still listen to CDs I've made because it's a better listening experience.

Well that's on you. If you subscribed to one of the services you'd find that you can skip whatever you wanted. You can put your own playlists together and the more you use the service, the better it gets at recommending music for you to listen to. As for the flow thing, you can pick genres etc. and it can stick to a specific genre or certain kind of sound but it's not perfect. Even so, I've literally never met anyone who really gave as much of a shit about this as you do. You have fully given these services a chance, so you don't really know what your talking about when you say that listening to CD's is a better listening experience. Nothing you are doing on these CD's is exclusive to the CD's. You can download the tracks so they stay on your phone or media device and so that they are available if you are driving cross country and lose data access. Essentially, other than the monthly cost to avoid ads and limitations on skipping tracks there are no downsides to it. You can share music without sending someone a disc or meeting them in person to exchange music etc.

While I agree with everything about censorship and changing media after the fact being bad, I disagree with the experience or your take on streaming services. I made more than my share of mix CD's and tapes back in the day and the streaming services are essentially better in every way as they have fewer limitations. Any music you can think of is nearly always at your fingertips without having to track down an album, download it from somewhere etc. and then make CD's like its 1999.

This is also one of the reasons I stick to having 5.25 bays in my computer. I still burn CDs. I still rip DVDs and use DVDs for backup purposes.

Depends on what you mean by last long. I have some burned CDs more than 20 years old which still play perfectly. I don't remember when I got my first DVD burner but I know I've been doing backups with quality DVDs since at least 2006 and they all still work fine as I go through them occasionally to make sure they're still good.

It probably won't be too long before I also get a Bluray burner simply to redo all my backups and to make it easier to handle larger files for backup purposes.

I haven't had an optical drive in my computer for years. I've got one in my hardware cabinet in case I need it for some reason. My case still has 5 1/4" bays, but now I use that space for fans and radiators. I have a Blu-Ray burner and used to use it for backup purposes but I find flash drives and online backups a much better option.
 

swingdjted

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
255
I think that both sides of this have good points, and it's not my place to say which is right or wrong for anyone else but myself, even though my earlier posts were strongly worded as though it should be true for all. I just don't want people who want the older formats to lose that option.

I think the 5.25 bay is an excellent way to personalize a case. At one time there were many options for a bay of that size or a combination of bays. I like the option to improve/change/add/personalize the functions of the front of a computer tower. One poster had a great idea saying he/she would like the front I/O to be on a bay so that when new connections become available (like newer USB formats, or whatever), old cases can still be used with the latest in front connectivity. Many have loved hotswap bays on the front or drawers for dongles, or card readers or whatever they need. There was even a cassette bay a while ago. Some loved having physical fan control knobs or temperature displays. Who's to say newer technolgogies couldn't still make use of a 5.25 bay? It's just a sensible way to keep the case able to be personalized and extra functional up front.

My CM Stacker has 12 total front 5.25 bays (if you count the removable power/reset audio/USB2/1394 thing that came with it), which is insane overkill, but I was hoping that I could just buy a newer I/O thing with power/reset every so many years to fit in one of those to make the case last for decades. Some of those are internal hard drive fan cages that can be moved up or down, some just filtered vents for fans, some are optical drives, and one is a card reader. I think that cases should keep the concept so that companies can make items that keep case fronts versatile. Those that still like huge radiators could still attach there if they wanted, or just mount up top.

On the topic of ordering songs, I won't argue with the great composers when they ordered the movements within their symphonies centuries ago, and I still think there should be room for that in mondern day music for those that like the effect.
 
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