Why doesn't Nokia - Windows Phone uses retina display?

[Thuleman]

WP7 and 8 will do just fine. They took what Apple did right and made it their own. Locked hardware specs encourage app development because the app will look/feel/work the same on all hardware.

Whenever there's talk about Android the fragmentation issue comes up. When the fragmentation issue comes up lots of people jump in to state that it isn't a problem. However, then there is reality and reality has proven time and again that fragmentation is a HUGE issue. In fact it is so huge that Google got fed up enough with it to just go out and buy Motorola so that Google gains some control over the hardware.

The modern WP7 and 8 phones will appeal to corporate clients, just like Office, Exchange, and Visual Studio does. Once those phones make it into the corporate world the users will become marketers. In the end it will all work out.

 

[kllrnohj]

If WP7 shipped on time, it would have killed Android off.

Nope, not if it shipped the same way anyway. WP7 didn't support CDMA at launch, and Verizon is what put Android in millions of phones.

And OEMs love Android, so even if WP7 had shipped back when Android hadn't taken off yet, and it supported CDMA, it still might not have been a clean kill.

It does multitask, at least, in the same sense that iOS multitasks. On a phone, I much prefer how iOS and Windows Phone 7 handle multitasking.

Yes, which would be not at all.

I hate, hate, HATE how Android and Windows Mobile handle multitasking. I don't like dealing with it on a phone, not at all.

Android doesn't do multitasking like WinMo did.

I wear glasses, just got the prescription updated, but I'm NEAR SIGHTED. A phone in my hand is just fine, with or without glasses...

Congrats? I can see the difference between 240 dpi and 320 dpi quite easily, as can many others.

And I'm not sure I understand your argument about "not having demanding apps." Isn't that a good thing? Our apps, with full functionality, don't suck up as many resources. Seems like a good deal to me.

Except they *aren't* full functionality compared to the competition's apps, that's the problem. They don't just magically use less resources because they are WP7, they just aren't doing as much. I gave you several examples, feel free to point out WP7 apps that come close.

Huh? I see Windows Phone's being sold all the time. Nokia has been selling the Lumia 800 like hotcakes over in Europe. WP7 phones are consistently rated highly on carrier's websites. The top-three highest rated phones on Amazon.com are all Windows Phone 7 handsets with a total of 6 Windows Phone 7 handsets in their top-10.

Oh, and the Lumia 900 ran out of pre-orders on AT&T rather quickly... Edit: since posting this, the Nokia Lumia 900 has shot up the Best Seller charts at Amazon.com, making it the #5 and #6 best selling phone on Amazon. It's also now the top-selling phone in the AT&T category.

Yeah, they're not selling, sure

1) How many Lumia 900s did they have for those pre-orders? Selling out of, say, 100,000 phones is hardly impressive. Selling out tells you nothing unless you know how many there were

2) High rating != high volume

At 1.5 years out, Windows phone 7 has a faster-growing marketplace than Android did at 1.5 years out. I'm not seeing the lack of developer support here when we're going to break 100,000 apps in less than 2 years...

Quantity isn't quality, and it doesn't matter that WP7 today has more apps than Android did 2 years ago, it needs to compete with Android today.

Nokia has gone all-in on Windows Phone 7, so they're certainly a major friend as far as OEMs are concerned.

Yup, it is, and MS paid a boatload of cash for it - we'll see if it works out for them.

AT&T used to list the iPhone as their "hero phone," meaning it was their flagship and employees could have one free of charge if they traded in their current phone. AT&T just dumped the iPhone from hero-phone status and replaced it with the Nokia Lumia 900. All the employees at my local AT&T store now have Lumia 900's, they're happy to explain them to customers and were pushing for pre-orders rather hard.

Sure, because the iPhone is no longer an AT&T exclusive. We'll see how long AT&T pushes the Lumia 900, and whether or not consumers actually go for it.

Although with that said if you go look at AT&T's wireless home page you'll see a promo for an Android phone, and none of the random phones shown on the page are WP7.

 

[kllrnohj]

Whenever there's talk about Android the fragmentation issue comes up. When the fragmentation issue comes up lots of people jump in to state that it isn't a problem. However, then there is reality and reality has proven time and again that fragmentation is a HUGE issue. In fact it is so huge that Google got fed up enough with it to just go out and buy Motorola so that Google gains some control over the hardware.

Google bought Motorola for the patents. And when has fragmentation been proven to be a HUGE issue?

But I don't get why anyone would root for a single chipset, form factor, and specs. That is just not a world I want to live in - one with zero competition and drastically less innovation, where a single company controls *everything*. If WP replaces Android (and let's be honest, that's a huge fucking if right now) and still only supports a single chipset, that would *suuuuucccckkk*. It would be *terrible*. Imagine if we only had Intel and Nvidia - we'd all be rocking shitty hardware.

 

[Unknown-One]

Yes, which would be not at all.

What iOS and WP7 do as far as multitasking is concerned is perfectly fine for most people (look at how popular the iPhone is). You might want to check you facts, because these OS's do allow real background operation of applications if certain conditions are met, and they provide services for applications that have been suspended to disk so that they can still do a specific subset of tasks. 1st party apps can multitask in the true sense, the background services manager multitasks in the true sense, 3rd party apps are allowed to continue running in the background for an limited period of time (controlled by the OS) so they can finish up tasks (after which point they have to use the background services manager to carry out a smaller subset of tasks while not in the foreground).

It works, it works well, and I don't have to worry about managing it, ever. It "just works"

Like I said, I like how iOS and WP7 do it. On a phone, I'll take that form of "multitasking" any day over what Android does.

I deal with multiplatform mobile development frameworks at work dear sir. Just a quick check on the private support forum users at work indicate at least 5 times as many BlackBerry apps in development. While a good chunk of them must certainly be apps for the corporate world, it still gives a fairly good impression of where WP7 is right now.

So the private forum for one particular workplace == the entire world of developers? That sample size is so small and easily slanted that it's ridiculous.

Also what about even big mobile developers like Rovio not interested in porting new iOS apps to WP7?

What are you talking about? Rovio just announced Angry Birds Space for Windows Phone 7

Except they *aren't* full functionality compared to the competition's apps, that's the problem. They don't just magically use less resources because they are WP7, they just aren't doing as much. I gave you several examples, feel free to point out WP7 apps that come close.

They seem fully functional to me on my phone... I backscrolled real quick and I didn't really see any specific apps you made examples of. Can you clarify? WP7 apps that come close to what?

And yes, apps CAN use fewer resources by virtue of being on WP7 because of the coding requirements. Everything on Windows Phone 7 is C# (Silverlight and XNA) which I've consistently found produces less resource-hungry applications than writing equivalent functionality for Android in Java/Dalvik...

2) High rating != high volume

I pointed out high ratings AND high volume. The Lumia 900 has been bouncing up and down the "best seller" list on Amazon all day, charting as high as #5.

The best-seller list is based on sales, not ratings.

Quantity isn't quality, and it doesn't matter that WP7 today has more apps than Android did 2 years ago. it needs to compete with Android today.

I have no trouble finding quality apps for my Windows Phone...

Also, how does rate-of-growth not matter? WP7 started from zero, so faster developer adoption is welcomed. The rate at which apps are submitted has been increasing steadily since launch, meaning the platform has been picking up more and more active developer support as time goes by. I already have more than enough apps installed on my phone, meeting all of my needs. What am I missing?

And WP7 can compete with Android just fine, in the same way that iOS competes with Android while being less fully-featured and less open. Some people (like myself) simply don't like how Android works, and prefer iOS or Windows Phone 7.

And like I said in my previous post, if Microsoft wants to take market share from anyone, it's iOS, not Android.

Sure, because the iPhone is no longer an AT&T exclusive. We'll see how long AT&T pushes the Lumia 900, and whether or not consumers actually go for it.

Although with that said if you go look at AT&T's wireless home page you'll see a promo for an Android phone, and none of the random phones shown on the page are WP7.

Uh...this was the first thing I saw when I went to att.com

A massive ad for the Lumia 900...

And if you go to Shop > Wireless > Smartphones... first phone listed is the Lumia 900 (ahead of the iPhones): http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/cell-phones/pda-phones-smartphones.jsp

But I don't get why anyone would root for a single chipset, form factor, and specs. That is just not a world I want to live in - one with zero competition and drastically less innovation, where a single company controls *everything*. If WP replaces Android (and let's be honest, that's a huge fucking if right now) and still only supports a single chipset, that would *suuuuucccckkk*. It would be *terrible*. Imagine if we only had Intel and Nvidia - we'd all be rocking shitty hardware.

It's already pretty clear that Windows Phone 8 will support more chipsets, being that it's based directly on Windows 8, which is being shipped on ARM tablets with mutliple chipsets

Also, zero competition? You're acting like the only ponies in this race are Android and WP7 (and you seem to think WP7 has to come to some weird level of whatever you consider "equivalence" with Android in order to be competitive)... what about iOS?

 

[yujie]

Sure, I am waiting for my 4D holographic display head unit

 

[Worminater]

Wow; fanboys unite. As soon as WP7 has the better display; the same people will claim how much better it is.

WP7 is nice. It's great that it runs well on lower specc'd hardware. That doesn't mean applications written for the platform couldn't take advantage of higher specs. Just look at any of the newer Rage engine games for a solid example of something that would get 2fps on any current WP7 device. To say any different is just silly.

Any noticing a difference between higher resolution screens? Of course it looks better. Is 800x480 good? Yes; I use that resolution all day (Nexus One), and don't have a problem with it. Would higher be better? Definitely; I did a test drive of a Galaxy Nexus for 2 weeks (4.6/720p) and it was * markedly* better. It does make a huge difference; and to claim else wise is also silly.

You're on [H]. People here pay twice the price for 10% higher performance (and normally more for less) constantly without getting ragged for it. Phones aren't *that* different than PC's at this point, there are definitely app's that I run that would benefit greatly from a dual core processor and i'm sure whenever I upgrade i'll get dual or maybe quad.

Is it necessary? No. I could get by with an or an original G1 if needed(Or any WP7 device i'm sure if app support was there). But that's not [H], and that constitutes trolling here imho.

'Good Enough' just isn't when your competing with a 3 year disadvantage.

 

[Zorachus]

I think the Nokia phone to rule all phones will be the next gen Windows-8 based phones, they will have 720P screen...multi cores...more apps...and all the upgraded features in the next version of Windows-8. I think these are expected out in Fall/Winter.

 

[Thuleman]

WP7 is nice. It's great that it runs well on lower specc'd hardware. That doesn't mean applications written for the platform couldn't take advantage of higher specs. Just look at any of the newer Rage engine games for a solid example of something that would get 2fps on any current WP7 device. To say any different is just silly.

It's also a matter of purpose though. If you want to game on a phone, then don't buy the 900. It's a productivity tool. It will have very board appeal to professionals who work in a Windows environment. The ability to connect with Exchange, Office (Sharepoint) etc. and the extremely low price for a 4G LTE phone are attractive to people who's primary use of the phone is productivity rather than entertainment.

Phones aren't *that* different than PC's at this point, there are definitely app's that I run that would benefit greatly from a dual core processor and i'm sure whenever I upgrade i'll get dual or maybe quad.

I would be curious to hear which apps would benefit from more than one core (games excluded). To me battery life is hugely important. Stuff running on two, or more, cores means it sucks up more power but completes 1/100th of a second faster. I'll take the battery life over miniscule time savings.

'Good Enough' just isn't when your competing with a 3 year disadvantage.

I suppose reality will prove one side of the argument right in the coming months.
The fact is that the economy is still in the crapper and no recovery is in sight. Spending between 0 and 100 dollars on a 4G LTE phone that has 'good enough' specs will be very attractive to many consumers. As long as the phone does what people want it to do they will buy it.

Why do people buy 4 cylinder cars when 6 is "more better". Why do they buy KIA when there's Mercedes?

Tons of people at Nokia and Microsoft (ATT really has no horse in this, they will benefit if the 900 sells well but don't lose anything if it doesn't) sat around and thought about how to gain market share in the US. They decided that the 900 is the way to go. Frankly, I do have just a little more trust in what they came up with over what folks on [H] have to say about it.

 

[Worminater]

I would be curious to hear which apps would benefit from more than one core (games excluded). To me battery life is hugely important. Stuff running on two, or more, cores means it sucks up more power but completes 1/100th of a second faster. I'll take the battery life over miniscule time savings.

I noticed something interesting as I moved from single core to dual; power usage went down as rather than pegging my single core for an extended period (video encoding), 2 cores worked in tandem and finished much faster; lowering total power usage.same work load; much shorter time; lower draw. Also; as far as tegra 3's quad core; it has a 5th slower core to handle the mundane tasks; only powering up the main cores when something needs the power; which then completes nice and fast before entering low power mode again. Specious argument at best without looking at current market; you should keep an open mind rather than arguing a single talking point regardless.

And sometimes you can even have your cake an eat it to... Razr Maxx. 1.2ghz dual core processor, 3300 mah battery, 4g lte, 540 x 960 resolution. but i digress.

 

[Thuleman]

Specious argument at best without looking at current market; you should keep an open mind rather than arguing a single talking point regardless.

I do keep an open mind, but even with it I can't quite fathom that performing video encoding on a phone will be a main stream feature requirement. I occasionally work with Adobe Premiere and tbh I'd probably quit my job if they would ask me to encode video on a phone. Just because something can be done (i.e. I can build a house with nothing more than having an axe, a forest, and time) doesn't mean that the majority of the users will need that functionality.

That's actually the main point of any of the phone discussions, whether it's about iOS, Android, or WP7 phones.

Another good example is Photoshop, which I also use at work at times, let's say that Photoshop can do 100% of what can be done in terms of image processing, creation, and manipulation. My need when I work with photos is to crop them, resize them, and on occasion use a clone stamp or some similar tool. I use 1% of Photoshop's capabilities. To me it is irrelevant that there are all these other things that I don't use, in fact, I could easily use a different (cheaper) product altogether and experience no loss in functionality.

Similarly with phones it doesn't matter to me that there are dual or quad core phones out there. It could have 50 cores and I wouldn't care because I use my smartphone for calls, email, VPN, RDP, CNN (app) and some very light web browsing. That is my need. The Lumia 900 fits my need, and it does so better than any other phone out there even though it only has one core and no 'retina' display.

 

[Worminater]

And i haven't said at all that the Lumia 900 won't work well for you. But wouldn't it be nice if you could see more of your desktop @ higher resolution while rdp'ing over to your desktop, and you had just a touch less lag while doing it? I'm getting mean now; my apologies.

 

[Thuleman]

And i haven't said at all that the Lumia 900 won't work well for you. But wouldn't it be nice if you could see more of your desktop @ higher resolution while rdp'ing over to your desktop, and you had just a touch less lag while doing it? I'm getting mean now; my apologies.

LOL
My point is that many smartphone users have a very limited set of requirements. Why do you think they sell 300MB data plans? Because many many users don't actually need more data. I have used 116 MB on a 3G connection in March, that's with RDP, and I have not used the WiFi mode on my current phone at all, ever.

I am currently using an HTC Hero at 320x480 on a 3.2" screen and it works fine for RDP. It has a 538 Mhz CPU. I use Wyse Pocketcloud which is excellently designed for operating large resolution RDP on small phone screens. My only beef is that it actually doesn't work anymore because my OS is 2.1 and they coded it for 2.3 or whatever and ever since they updated the software it stopped working. That's the power of Android fragmentation for you. I don't experience lag when using a single core 528 Mhz, and I don't foresee experiencing lag on the new single core 1.4 Ghz.

My smartphone usage is similar to many of my RL friends and colleagues usage. We don't play FPS games on the phone, we don't watch movies, we don't perform any kind of serious work on it. It's a tool to stay in touch and keep tabs on things. It's not the primary, or secondary, computing tool and it never will be due to its small size and lack of production quality input devices.

 

[yimingwuzere]

So the private forum for one particular workplace == the entire world of developers? That sample size is so small and easily slanted that it's ridiculous.

What are you talking about? Rovio just announced Angry Birds Space for Windows Phone 7

I only read the original article quoting some guy at Rovio saying they aren't porting it over to WP7, thanks for posting the follow up though.

A sample size of a particular workplace for a development framework used by RIM, Cisco, EA, Facebook and many many more is small? Uh, what?

 

[YeuEmMaiMai]

I have WM 6.5 and WP 7 is a huge step backwards in many respects.....

1. Hardly any customization options
2. No USB thumbdrive support (great for carrying files to and from work as needed or sharing items with your friends without the need to load clunky software on PC)
3. No *REAL* multitasking like you can with previous OS

These limiations are pretty significant when you compare it to iOS and 'droid

4. Limited to Single Core
5. Locked at 800*480

If WP8 gives me high res and thunb drive, I am good to go...

 

[wonSR4]

Wish the 900 was on Verizon, I would totally get it

 

[Silverghost]

I would like to chime in and say screens do make a big difference too some. After using my Galaxy Nexus for a couple months now, the screen on my co workers iPhone4 is so incredibly inferior I am amazed every time they show me something on their phone. The GN screen has spoiled my eyes. It's not much different than people who have 30" monitors, they'll never go back.

 

[BDV]

1. Hardly any customization options
2. No USB thumbdrive support (great for carrying files to and from work as needed or sharing items with your friends without the need to load clunky software on PC)
3. No *REAL* multitasking like you can with previous OS

These limiations are pretty significant when you compare it to iOS and 'droid.

Umm.

iOS is check on ALL 3.

 

[YeuEmMaiMai]

Umm.

iOS is check on ALL 3.

Did they remove the ability to use your phone as a thumb drive in ios.....if so, that sucks

I thought iOS could run apps in the background?

 

[Worminater]

http://www.cocoanetics.com/2010/07/understanding-ios-4-backgrounding-and-delegate-messaging/

 

[MorgothPl]

First of all, after playing with LG 4X sample a bit, I can see large differences between crap screen and a proper HD-IPS screen, that beats S-Amoled by far. In web browsing/gaming/watching movies HD-IPS just smokes any other screens. Same as iPad screen owns other tablets.

The other thing is, why I ain't going for WIndows Phone
1) No folders - I will not scroll down the phone menu to find app I want, as I can't make my own folders

2) Things like ACTA-SMS, that will be used to erase your phone, when you watch the content that will be against Microsoft/Nokia policies

3) Lack of apps I use - Kindle is not aviable for most Europe - apart Germany/UK - you can't get it in Poland, Norway, Sweden or other countries.

4) Absolutely lack of "wow" factor on any windows phone handset - they have nothing, that will put a spotlight on them. Just bunch of mundane, boring phones

5) It's fast, but... it's dying system. Windows 8 will be in fall. Noone knows, if you will e able to upgrade the handsets, so it's buying phone for 3 months, then to use new apps and new system you'll have to throw it out, as you won't be able to root the phone, like you can root Android, to get it to ICS.

 

[Thuleman]

I always hear the "omg the screen is so much better for watching movies!!1!!!1!eleven!!!!".
Different people have different needs, but I have nothing but pity for those who watch movies on a 4-ish inch screen with shitty sound. Let's say that the average movie is 90 minutes. Where exactly do you have 90 minutes available on a regular basis where your only viable entertainment option is to expose yourself to a tiny screen and shitty sound to watch some movie. I watch movies on my 52" at home with great surround sound and I feel that even 52" is getting too small. That's not even talking about battery life and more importantly that your data plan doesn't support you streaming a whole lot of media on a regular basis regardless.

Maybe I am not as smart as I think I am but I don't believe I can make folders on my Android. I can however place shortcuts to the apps on the home screen and that's really all I need. I expect that's the same for all phone OSes.

ACTA-SMS is just FUD.

WOW factor? When you go to a hardware store, does any particular hammer WOW you? It's a hammer, you use it to drive nails into stuff. The Lumia 900 is unibody, color all the way through, Nokia clear black display, not enough to WOW you? What do you want it to do, make icecream or cook you lunch?

There's been a thread about whether the phones will be upgradable to WP8. See: Lumia 900 (and like phones) upgradable to WP8? and the general consensus is that it will be upgradable.

Apart from that WP7 phones can essentially be rooted as well (registry modification) to receive updates directly from MS or a different provider.

 

[Digital Viper-X-]

If you bother to look, WP7 just hit 80k apps, 10k more than BB, on top of that, look at the trend

Wp7 marketplace hit 80K apps today, 70k apps 2 weeks ago, 60k apps a month before that. etcetc... apps are coming in faster and faster for WP7, at this rate it should close the gap considerably this year.

I've started developing an app for both android and WP7, as far as development goes, I prefer WP7, MS has made it very easy to get into and work with the platform.

 

[MorgothPl]

I always hear the "omg the screen is so much better for watching movies!!1!!!1!eleven!!!!".
Different people have different needs, but I have nothing but pity for those who watch movies on a 4-ish inch screen with shitty sound. Let's say that the average movie is 90 minutes. Where exactly do you have 90 minutes available on a regular basis where your only viable entertainment option is to expose yourself to a tiny screen and shitty sound to watch some movie. I watch movies on my 52" at home with great surround sound and I feel that even 52" is getting too small. That's not even talking about battery life and more importantly that your data plan doesn't support you streaming a whole lot of media on a regular basis regardless.

Maybe I am not as smart as I think I am but I don't believe I can make folders on my Android. I can however place shortcuts to the apps on the home screen and that's really all I need. I expect that's the same for all phone OSes.

ACTA-SMS is just FUD.

WOW factor? When you go to a hardware store, does any particular hammer WOW you? It's a hammer, you use it to drive nails into stuff. The Lumia 900 is unibody, color all the way through, Nokia clear black display, not enough to WOW you? What do you want it to do, make icecream or cook you lunch?

There's been a thread about whether the phones will be upgradable to WP8. See: Lumia 900 (and like phones) upgradable to WP8? and the general consensus is that it will be upgradable.

Apart from that WP7 phones can essentially be rooted as well (registry modification) to receive updates directly from MS or a different provider.

I commute by train every day to work, so I have enough time to watch an episode of tv series, and phone in train is more handy then tablet, so the 4"3 screen is just perfect thing for me. Then I can charge phone at work, so battery life ain't issue. Also, with ability of android phone to actually use a memory card, and not use the skydive to waste the data plan to transfer large files from cloud to phone, I can stack up 32 gb of movies/ music/ apps on the card and that's enough things for month of commuting

And making folders on android is same way as you do it on iPhone - you drag one app to the other, and it should make a folder. Very convenient thing to group your apps / games in as few screens as you could

Now to the wow factor. I like my gadgets and other things I use be well designed. I can't for example stand lg Optimus 7, or I don't like htc designs. It matters for me. Same as with clothes, cars, whatever else.

 

[GreenMonkey]

LOL
My point is that many smartphone users have a very limited set of requirements. Why do you think they sell 300MB data plans? Because many many users don't actually need more data. I have used 116 MB on a 3G connection in March, that's with RDP, and I have not used the WiFi mode on my current phone at all, ever.

I am currently using an HTC Hero at 320x480 on a 3.2" screen and it works fine for RDP. It has a 538 Mhz CPU. I use Wyse Pocketcloud which is excellently designed for operating large resolution RDP on small phone screens. My only beef is that it actually doesn't work anymore because my OS is 2.1 and they coded it for 2.3 or whatever and ever since they updated the software it stopped working. That's the power of Android fragmentation for you. I don't experience lag when using a single core 528 Mhz, and I don't foresee experiencing lag on the new single core 1.4 Ghz.

My smartphone usage is similar to many of my RL friends and colleagues usage. We don't play FPS games on the phone, we don't watch movies, we don't perform any kind of serious work on it. It's a tool to stay in touch and keep tabs on things. It's not the primary, or secondary, computing tool and it never will be due to its small size and lack of production quality input devices.

I get by on my Optimus V (600mhz) on Virgin Mobile fine. I doubt I use more than a couple of hundred MB a month.

I feel the same way. Generally if I have time to kill somewhere I have my e-ink Nook and I read a book. I don't really game on it at all. I tend to use the Amazon/Ebay apps, the browser, and once in a while the Goodreads app...Facebook app once in a while...that's mostly it.

I like more power on my tablet. I use my Thrive for NES and SNES emulation around the house. But I don't need it on a phone. I guess I don't care about the internet that bad. I'd rather game at home on the plasma, PC, or maybe on my DS (which I rarely use)...or on my Thrive once in a while.

I like the look of WP7. Wish they had 'em on prepaid...I'd probably get one.

I don't watch TV or movies on a phone. That's crazy. I sit down in front of the plasma.

 

[Unknown-One]

1) No folders - I will not scroll down the phone menu to find app I want, as I can't make my own folders

I have folders on Windows Phone 7...I usually don't use them though because navigation is so seamless. I'm not sure why you'd need to scroll all the way down the phone since:
- You can pin your most frequently used apps to the home screen.
- You can launch apps with your voice.
- The full app list to the right of the home screen is searchable (tap the magnifying glass icon and then type a few letters to filter).
- The full app list has alphabetical delimiters, allowing you to jump to any point in the app list instantly with a tap:

- The built in hubs (Music, Games, Pictures, etc) sort of act as folders already, they each have an "apps" section in them that shows installed apps in the relevant category. This is a shot from the "Music + Videos" hub:

Anyway, I went ahead and threw some stuff into a folder. Happy now?

(edit: Aug, imgur murdered the image quality)

3) Lack of apps I use - Kindle is not aviable for most Europe - apart Germany/UK - you can't get it in Poland, Norway, Sweden or other countries.

There is an official Amazon Kindle app for Windows Phone, though... I wonder why Amazon chose not to make it available in all markets.

5) It's fast, but... it's dying system. Windows 8 will be in fall. Noone knows, if you will e able to upgrade the handsets, so it's buying phone for 3 months, then to use new apps and new system you'll have to throw it out, as you won't be able to root the phone, like you can root Android, to get it to ICS.

Microsoft has stated on-record that all Windows Phone 7 apps will work on Windows Phone 8. You won't have to "throw out" anything...
As a previous post mentioned, it's expected that pretty much all current Windows Phone 7 handsets will be upgraded to Windows Phone 8 (the Lumia 710, 800, and 900 are pretty much guaranteed to get Windows Phone 8).

Edit: You CAN root WP7, I've done it to my handset. I can pop open WP7 Root Tools and give any app I want full root privledges:

You can also debrand the phone using WP7 Root Tools' registry editor (which will force it to get updates directly from Microsoft), or go as far as flashing a new/custom ROM (though that's not really necessary if you just want the latest version of the OS).

 

[YeuEmMaiMai]

If you bother to look, WP7 just hit 80k apps, 10k more than BB, on top of that, look at the trend

Wp7 marketplace hit 80K apps today, 70k apps 2 weeks ago, 60k apps a month before that. etcetc... apps are coming in faster and faster for WP7, at this rate it should close the gap considerably this year.

I've started developing an app for both android and WP7, as far as development goes, I prefer WP7, MS has made it very easy to get into and work with the platform.

did you miss crackberry.com?

 

[YeuEmMaiMai]

I always hear the "omg the screen is so much better for watching movies!!1!!!1!eleven!!!!".
Different people have different needs, but I have nothing but pity for those who watch movies on a 4-ish inch screen with shitty sound. Let's say that the average movie is 90 minutes. Where exactly do you have 90 minutes available on a regular basis where your only viable entertainment option is to expose yourself to a tiny screen and shitty sound to watch some movie. I watch movies on my 52" at home with great surround sound and I feel that even 52" is getting too small. That's not even talking about battery life and more importantly that your data plan doesn't support you streaming a whole lot of media on a regular basis regardless.

Maybe I am not as smart as I think I am but I don't believe I can make folders on my Android. I can however place shortcuts to the apps on the home screen and that's really all I need. I expect that's the same for all phone OSes.

ACTA-SMS is just FUD.

WOW factor? When you go to a hardware store, does any particular hammer WOW you? It's a hammer, you use it to drive nails into stuff. The Lumia 900 is unibody, color all the way through, Nokia clear black display, not enough to WOW you? What do you want it to do, make icecream or cook you lunch?

There's been a thread about whether the phones will be upgradable to WP8. See: Lumia 900 (and like phones) upgradable to WP8? and the general consensus is that it will be upgradable.

Apart from that WP7 phones can essentially be rooted as well (registry modification) to receive updates directly from MS or a different provider.

you must not fly much.......

 

[wilsonrdfl]

you must not fly much.......

Well, I do...and I use my tablet for that. It would suck to have to watch a 4" screen for 2 hours. I guess if you were doing that 720p may be handy. Even then I'm not so sure. I haven't watched any movies on my Titan, but on my old Galaxy S, the preloaded Avatar looked great and it only ran at 800x480. Though I used it more for a demo of how great SAMOLED looked and never actually sat through the whole movie.

 

[Thuleman]

you must not fly much.......

I fly frequently as living in Alaska you basically have to if you want to go anywhere else. I'll spare you the details but I either use the 8" DigEplayer on Alaska Airlines or on international flights I use the in-flight entertainment system or my MacBook Air (work paid for it, would never spend my own money on Apple products).

In the end it comes down to this; If you are using your phone to frequently watch movies then the screen size and resolution will be a major determining factor for you when it comes to which phone to buy. If you are not using your phone to frequently watch movies then the screen size and resolution are no longer a major factor in your purchasing decision.

 

[oldpablo]

Asking everyone in general, if you are using your phone to watch movies are you ripping Blu-ray quality movies to your phone? This is a trick question because if you are then that's the dumbest thing I've heard. If you aren't then why not because more pixels/quality/whatever means better movie experience on your tiny screen right (comparative to a laptop/TV/Tablet)!

 

[Zorachus]

Why are we even discussing this new Nokia phone ? Seriously who the fuck would buy this ? If you are on ATT, you have two very good and very different phones to choose from, that blow this out of the water, the HTC One X or iPhone4S, either of these are much better, I prefer the One X, but would still take the 4S over the Nokia.

Windows-Mango still sucks, now call me back once Nokia releases their next gen Windows8 based phone, that will be bad ass, with 720p HD screen...Quad Core...more apps...Majorly revised OS...etc

How could not want this, over the Nokia ? I am serious, would honestly like to know.
http://www.theverge.com/2012/4/2/2919202/htc-one-x-review

 

[oldpablo]

Easy, it's not Windows Phone.

 

[danman]

And it's HTC. They've gone way downhill in the past 2 years.

 

[Zorachus]

I think Windows8 based phones will be a million times better. Too bad Nokia is calling this their flagship phone for the U.S. Just saying if I was on ATT I find the new HTC One X to be a much better buy, heck I hate Apple, but would even pick the iPhone4S over his Nokia.

But the Nokia phone based off Windows8 if rumors are true, would be a very top notch high quality device. Windows-Mango compared to Android 4 ICS or iOS5 just seems lacking, and the hardware mainly the low res screen seems outdated for a flagship device in 2012. When are the Windows8 based phones due out ? Fall or Winter ? And at that time they will be competing against the Nexus-Four with Android 5 Jellybean, and iPhone5 running iOS6. But I will keep an open mind, and still think Windows8 phones will finally be very competitive and great phones.

 

[Thuleman]

I think Windows8 based phones will be a million times better. Too bad Nokia is calling this their flagship phone for the U.S. Just saying if I was on ATT I find the new HTC One X to be a much better buy, heck I hate Apple, but would even pick the iPhone4S over his Nokia.

Can't decide whether you are just trolling (higher probability) or you don't understand how stuff works (also possible, but lower probability), or it's a combination of the two.

There are two kinds of people, those who buy phones primarily based on hype and peer pressure and those who buy phones based on real world usage requirements.

If I want a WP7 phone now, then I will buy a Lumia 900. Since you previously wrote that you have no idea why anyone would want to buy one you are either inept or you are trolling, I'll go with the later.

WP8 phones will be better than WP7 phones. Well there's an argument that we haven't heard before! How about this; I see your WP8 phone and I raise you a WP9 phone which will be better than the WP8 phone. Your point?

Purchasing decisions have to be made with currently available technology in mind. If I want/need a phone right now, today, then it doesn't matter that WP8 coming out in the fall will be better. That doesn't help me today. Even if I were not set on buying a WP7 phone the HTC One X/iPhone5/Galaxy3 isn't out today, so what is the point of bringing them up?

However, today's WP7 phones will run WP8. Let's assume that they don't, so what, trade it in for a WP8 phone when the time comes. Big deal.

 

[oldpablo]

I don't know why people buy 1920x1080 or 1920x1200 LCDs when 2048 resolutions have been available for a long time now, clearly everyone needs 2048 because its a higher number. Even on a 19" monitor.

It's just not necessary for the average and even most non-average people. I'm sorry it blows minds but it should be a testament to how good WP7 actually is minus "cutting edge" specs that are perceived as necessary to get through the day with self esteem in tact. I spent a penny to try it and then left Android in the dust. Give it a shot, you might just find your priorities shifting.

 

[Zorachus]

Not trolling. Ok I get your point the Windows8 Nokia phone is 6+ months away, so no point discussing that now, sorry. Same with the Galaxy S3 and iPhone-next, all months away still.

But the HTC One X is very close, I thought ATT selling it end of April / early May, that is just a few weeks off, some people already bought the international version to work on ATT.
http://forums.androidcentral.com/htc-one-x/165768-just-got-one-x-usa-impressions-hands.html

But if you are not into Android, and hate the iPhone, then yes, this Nokia 900 is your best option I guess.

 

[BDV]

One X is awesome. If I didn't have the 900 I'd be using it.

900 is also awesome. For 99$ it can't be beat.

 

[oldpablo]

Something else just occurred to me, wouldn't it require more power to render a higher resolution meaning less battery life? Won't the GPU be working harder?

 

[danman]

I'm sure you are just fine with your 800x480 screen but for me, after using a 720p and now an 800p screen I could never go back to such low a resolution.