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Why doesn't Apple make a full on tablet PC
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I dream of the Ipad with the full OSX (or Win 7) on it were you can have a full computer functioning at your fingertips.
The Ipads lockdown on apps has me shying away from it. I want to be able to try anything I want on it, and a tablet PC would do that.
The Ipads lockdown on apps has me shying away from it. I want to be able to try anything I want on it, and a tablet PC would do that.
heatlesssun
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This already exists on Windows 7. Got it in my hands now, convertible, and there's a cool slate that should be available by 3rd quarter:http://www.exopc.com/
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heatlesssun
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Sure its niche but there's a lot of people that make these devices, have been for nearly a decade now and they year after year continue to make new ones, so they aren't unprofitable.
Apple could probably do even better in this market than most PC OEM if they wanted because they would ACTUALLY run an add. Almost a decade after they came out I still take my convertiable tablets and people are like "OMG!". Many simply haven't seen anything like, let alone that such things exist.
What brand/model do you have?
Also, the exo pc looks cool, but there are no shots of just the desktop with start menus. From the way the say things you would still have to buy apps for it, so if somebody doesn't port an app of what I want then then I am fooked.
While I love my iPhone, I just can't get excited about the iPad. I already have a pretty portable tablet PC (4.5lb 12.1" dual core with built in burner), but battery life is pretty poor.
The spec table hasn't been updated from "GMA 500"... guess it had a Z500 series chip in it originally. The battery life is somewhat disappointing at "5 hours" since that could mean while reading ebooks at 60% brightness or something. Obviously what's being done in those 5 hours is nothing to brag about.
Bluetooth (not locked to very restricted devices), high quality video out, built in camera, SDHC card reader and USB are perfect additions (cough). Who would ever think of putting such things in a tablet? It probably supports true multi-tasking and comes pre-jailbroken too.
Mmmm GMA 3150 graphics.
The spec table hasn't been updated from "GMA 500"... guess it had a Z500 series chip in it originally. The battery life is somewhat disappointing at "5 hours" since that could mean while reading ebooks at 60% brightness or something. Obviously what's being done in those 5 hours is nothing to brag about.Bluetooth (not locked to very restricted devices), high quality video out, built in camera, SDHC card reader and USB are perfect additions (cough). Who would ever think of putting such things in a tablet? It probably supports true multi-tasking and comes pre-jailbroken too.
It sounds like they have a custom shell on top of Win7, not that you can only run "ExoPC UI Layer Development Kit" apps. 32GB is a small amount of space for a Win7 system, so I wonder if it uses an embedded or Starter (ugh, probably) edition.
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Michaelius
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Because then people wouldn't need to spend a grand or two on macbooks
heatlesssun
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That's just Exo's custom UI on top of Windows 7. This guy runs Windows 7 Home Premium, it'll run any Windows app.
Currently have a tm2, great machine, has a lot of options. HP is getting ready to refresh it next month to the i3 for the base model and i5 and possibly i7, all of the ULV category. Slower than the standard parts but MUCH cooler and better on battery and it's REALLY important that a TabletPC run cool.
heatlesssun
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While I love my iPhone, I just can't get excited about the iPad. I already have a pretty portable tablet PC (4.5lb 12.1" dual core with built in burner), but battery life is pretty poor.
Mmmm GMA 3150 graphics.
When coupled with the Crystal chip I hear the setup isn't half bad. This device will for instance actually support true on screen HD playback at 720p.
Yes, battery life in a device at the two pound mark will always be a problem for these types of devices, but with ports, camera, the ability to print to any printer, etc. it's a tradeoff. You give up a lot for the long battery life of an iPad versus a full function computer so it's all about what you want and need. 10 hours of battery life doesn't do you any good if the device can't to the job.
Mmmm GMA 3150 graphics.
The other problem is that its touchscreen isn't as responsive as the iPad's, there is a visible touchscreen layer that keeps the display from being as clear as it could be, the display is TN, etc. On top of hardware, there's also the problem that Windows 7 just isn't a good touchscreen OS. It is great for a mouse and keyboard interface but it treats the touchscreen as a second class input peripheral instead of having the entire interface built around touch. Aside from that even things like OSK implementation is poor compared to what is on the iPad. Its all really halfass and IMO needs tightening and tweaking pretty much everywhere to make it work well.
While a tablet running the desktop version of OS X would be cool (and rumor is that the Macbook Air started off as a tablet before they threw a keyboard on), the fact of the matter is that for devices with such a simple input mechanism and with such limited screen space, abstracting filesystem navigation away from the user is actually a net positive. Use applications to manage and navigate your assets, not something like Finder/Windows Explorer, that or apps like Goodreader.
The proof is in the fact that everyone (and I mean EVERYONE) is following the iPad's lead. HP canned Windows 7 and went with WebOS for their slate, Android slates are coming in a few months, and I guarantee that Microsoft will release a slate OS based on Windows Mobile 7, no question in my mind.
My personal preference is a real 15" notebook for "real" work as well as an iPad (or similar tablet whenever those come out). As it stands there is little I can't get done on an iPad; on two recent recent LAX to JFK trips I used it with the in-flight wifi to write work emails, IM, browse, etc, for the job I was on. Plus side is that it took up no space and my battery was at 65% by the end of the flight. If I was so inclined I would use Bento or Evernote for project notes a la OneNote, but as it stands I can't even be bothered to do that on my notebook.
The only thing its missing for me is an Adobe Lightroom style app, and that's just a matter of time.Rumor is that the Macbook Air was originally a tablet, then they decided to use the iPhone style UI for it and ended up slapping a keyboard on the MBA. The benefit is that they managed to get a fast and responsive UI with loads of battery life by using a mobile OS and hardware instead of resorting to a more expensive and power hungry Core2Duo. The MBA still has only about four hours of battery life, less than half of any Macbook Pro or iPad, and that is a product of the CPU and the size battery that can fit in the case.
I suspect that a tablet Macbook would be expensive, have poor battery life, and without serious OS modification be running a UI that is not well suited to touch interface. Much like tablet PCs over the last decade, nobody would buy it. :/
I know since I use Win 7 on my 12.1" tablet. Win 7 has a ton of room for UI improvements as a tablet OS. It doesn't even seem like MS has been making a tablet OS since 2002 ("XP Tablet PC Edition") with the lack of effort it seem to get.
The price of the iPad is probably the biggest reason it sells so well. Many people don't have demanding tasks they need to run. The form factor and screen are really nice, despite the relatively low resolution. I would want something like the Exo tablet if it either: had much better battery life -or- 5 hours and much better specs. Either way it needs more in battery bulk, which is still acceptable to me. A MacPad would be much more expensive/bulky and probably wouldn't compete well with the iPad.
There's a company that converts Macbook Pros into touchscreen tablets. Bit of a hacky solution IMO since the OS hasn't been made expressly for touch, but it exists (and boy does it cost money, hahah).
Not necessarily. Sometimes products are produced because a given company feels that the product will be the next big thing in a few generations. I'm not saying that this is the case now, but as I recall tablet PC sales have fallen well below expected sales numbers. I believe that market is showing growth so it could be a long term gamble on the part of all the companies producing tablet PCs today. Apple may not do so because they don't project significant enough profit margin to be worth the time or the development costs. They may feel that such a niche market isn't worth the investment now and choose to spend their capital elsewhere.
heatlesssun
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True, TPCs have never had big numbers, that said they seem to have been fairly consistent and given the fact that ZERO is put into marketing these devices its suprising that ANYONE knows aboout them. And as I said before I really doubt companies like HP, Toshiba, Lenovo, and Fujitsu would have been making the devices for EIGHT years if they were doing something for the bottom line. These devices are VERY unique, particularly convertibles, nothing else does what these devices can do.
As far as Windows 7 being a good touch screen OS, try it out for yourself. It's MUCH better than most realize or understand. The OS itself supports touch rather deeply, its really the applications and for the few that are geared from the ground up, like the stuff in the Microsoft Touch Pack, the touch UI experience is just as smooth as anything on an iPad.
But beyond the pure UI touch interface considerations there are issues of performance and functionality. Office 2010 is actually very touch friendly, maybe not as nice as iWorks but when you add up the pluses on the features side, at lot of folks would rather use the less touch optimized interface of Office than the touch optimized nature of iWorks. And performance, IE 8 works very well as touch broswser (the others are slowly getting there and IE 9 will have the same support for touch at minimum as IE 8), once again not as nice on the UI, but the performance is MUCH better on a something like a tm2 than an iPad and of course there's no compromise on any web technology of broswer plug in or for that browser you want to use.
Then of course there are pens to consider with tablets, something the iPad's not optimized for and while people will debate the merits of pens, they have their uses that can't be replaces by a mouse, keyboard or even touch.
As far as hardware, there are even better screens on certain TPCs than iPads, but those tend to be very expensive devices, for instance there are outdoor screens on TPCs, VERY nice screens that work much better than iPads outside.
So you simply have to consider these things, UI, screen, functionality, weight and battery life and determine what suits YOUR need, not mine or anyone else's. It's not a easy thing to answer for some people. If you can get by doing consumptive tasks with your slate, and iPad is a fine choice. But when it comes to productive tasks, TPCs will win that one, it's a full function PC afterall. Indeed you might want both.
As far as touch screen capability goes from someone who has been doing this on Windows 7 since the beta came out 18 months ago, I web surf, read eBooks, play media and use Office all day long on my tm2 with touch and it just works, its not flashy but its fast and efficient. It wouldn't work faster on an iPad, would look better but it would also be less functional. That's the theme usually, and iPad trades functionality for weight, ease of use (though something like iWork might actually be harder to use than Office 2010 on a touch screen if you know Office well) and battery life for functionality.
CKMorpheus
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heatlesssun
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Yeah these have been around for awhile, they tried to sell these as complete systems but you know Apple wasn't happy.
This. End thread.
RDF lulz.
heatlesssun
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So just because not a lot of people use it means its not useful? Plus even though TPCs have been around for 8 years, how many technologies took even long than that to gain traction in numbers?
Bottom line, the devices are unique, especially convertiables and there are plenty of students and professionals that use them every day. Niche or no, they're not going anywhere and we'll just keep seeing new ones. Part of the reason they are niche is because no one promotes them and few understand what they can do or even exist. In fact the iPad has done more to promote TPCs than anyone making them. I've talked to a fair number of new TPC owners that sae the iPad but the iPad didn't fir their needs and they looked around and discovered Tablet PCs which they bought.
InorganicMatter
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I haven't used my convertible tablet since graduating. Unless you're a student, or in a very specialized line of work, there's no huge demand for convertibles.
I am very much considering getting rid of my little tablet and big notebook, and buying a traditional 13-14" notebook. Tablet's just don't have the "everyday convenience" factor for the masses that Apple caters to.
I am very much considering getting rid of my little tablet and big notebook, and buying a traditional 13-14" notebook. Tablet's just don't have the "everyday convenience" factor for the masses that Apple caters to.
This is why I didn't buy it as well.
I like being able to open non-standard file formats like .mkv and run programs of my choosing like ChemOffice.
Guess I'm stuck with a Netbook for now to stick in my backpack.
CrimandEvil
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Apple did make a tablet.
What Apple didn't do is make a MacTablet running a full blown copy of OSX because it knows it will never sell enough to be anything other then a niche product which is exactly what it is in the PC world. The problem with a tablet Mac or a PC is in running a full desktop oriented OS while trying to make it touch friendly. All you end up with is nothing more then a niche product that only a select few will bother with.
Apple did what the PC world should have done years ago.
Because a full blown desktop OS sucks for touch input. That's why everyone else is now making Android and WP7 based tablets now.
What Apple didn't do is make a MacTablet running a full blown copy of OSX because it knows it will never sell enough to be anything other then a niche product which is exactly what it is in the PC world. The problem with a tablet Mac or a PC is in running a full desktop oriented OS while trying to make it touch friendly. All you end up with is nothing more then a niche product that only a select few will bother with.
Apple did what the PC world should have done years ago.
Complete bullshit. When you have Bill Gates trying to popularise them a few years back and even recently Steve Ballmer showing off HP's Slate during his keynote and MS investing in Courier how can you say with a straight face that no one has promoted them? HP killed the Slate for the same reason MS killed Courier: It will never sell enough to justify it's existence. When Bill Gates publicity declares that the future of PCs is in Tablets and yet Tablet PC sales plummet over the next couple of years you have to wonder why?
Because a full blown desktop OS sucks for touch input. That's why everyone else is now making Android and WP7 based tablets now.
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heatlesssun
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As Mac fans love to say quality as nothing to do with quantity.
As for all those that say that Windows 7 doesn't work well with touch screens, plenty disagree: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBtEhQqS1dw
As for all those that say that Windows 7 doesn't work well with touch screens, plenty disagree: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBtEhQqS1dw
CrimandEvil
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Wow. That makes it look so damn annoying and pointless... Yeah, I'm totally sold now on using a desktop OS for a tablet.
Wow, that video is exactly what I would show people as an example why Win7 is not a good touchscreen OS. There are so many things that need to be tweaked and improved.
Windows 7, great for mouse and keyboard, not so hot for touch! Sorry, using the same UI paradigms for a different physical interface doesn't work, nor do silly things like a resizable keyboard (wtf were they thinking?). Nail in the coffin is putting it on unresponsive hardware, lord.
Windows 7, great for mouse and keyboard, not so hot for touch! Sorry, using the same UI paradigms for a different physical interface doesn't work, nor do silly things like a resizable keyboard (wtf were they thinking?). Nail in the coffin is putting it on unresponsive hardware, lord.
heatlesssun
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Unresponsive hardware? A tm2 plays games like MW2, StarCraft 2, etc. very well with a dedicated GPU. It's not the hardware, its that simply most current Windows desktop apps don't have the UI sugar to do resizing. The apps that are built like that are as smooth as an iPad. Resizeable keyboard? Okay, now your getting into personal preferences, some peoples hands are bigger than others, one size DEFINITELY doesn't fit all.
You don't like it, and that's cool, but for people that like it and get it its just as easy, and in some cases easier than an iPad. And it's nice being to switching back and forth between programs with the tap of a finger.
There are plenty of advantages of a full OS compared to an iPad. If all you focus on is the UI sure the iPad wins. Scratch beneath the surface and the iPad shows its weaknesses.
For instance, you've never wanted to put two browser windows of say a browser and word processor window side by side?
The window dragging looks fairly laggy in that video. I would imagine this would have severe implications on complex touch interactivity if there is a noticeable delay in response time. It seems fine for tapping and so forth, though.
You realize that doesn't make any sense, right?
heatlesssun
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Perhaps, I don't know what the specs of his machine are, he might have the base model, I drag stuff around all the time on mine but I have the fastest CPU and dedicated GPU currently avilable for the tme 2 and it sure my sig rig is faster but its not laggy. But this really isn't an activity that you'd do a lot to be honest and you're not dragging windows around on an iPad like this, no analog really so a comparison on this is difficult. The tm2 is getting an i Series CPU and possibly a dedicated GPU upgrade as well so in a few weeks this experience will be faster.
I mentioned above that I have an HP tablet and I am running Win 7. I use it. It's definitely not all that and a stylus.
Win 7's tablet interface is better than the one in Vista and XP TE 2005, but it's hardly anywhere near good for general use (i.e. replace a KB + mouse). It is fine as a kiosk-type touch interface though, which the video demonstrated.
But still, I do prefer this "bulky" 4.5lb 12.1" full featured tablet over something totally gimped like an iPad. It's not that the iPad is a bad device, it's just pretty worthless for my particular usage.
The video made me lul from the mis- and multiple taps I caught when some didn't register right and it completely glossed over the problems using 99% of apps (or even selecting the small sub-items in the Office ribbon interface). The band aid of check boxes on icons in Explorer is priceless.
Win 7's tablet interface is better than the one in Vista and XP TE 2005, but it's hardly anywhere near good for general use (i.e. replace a KB + mouse). It is fine as a kiosk-type touch interface though, which the video demonstrated.
But still, I do prefer this "bulky" 4.5lb 12.1" full featured tablet over something totally gimped like an iPad. It's not that the iPad is a bad device, it's just pretty worthless for my particular usage.
pcx - I've played with the tm2 several times and the unresponsive touch interface and hardware, on top of a UI that needs to be overhauled and tailored specifically towards touch, really turned me off. It isn't one problem, it is many problems. Proof is in the fact that HP, Microsoft's tablet partner at CES, went ahead and bought Palm for WebOS. The video does not help my opinion any, and it is no wonder why mass consumers with less technical savvy and patience than me have rejected the platform.
I personally lean towards just getting a similarly priced "real" notebook with more power, but that's just me.
What's your usage, if I might ask? I have to say that the proliferation of apps over the last two months has added significantly to the iPad's functionality.
I personally lean towards just getting a similarly priced "real" notebook with more power, but that's just me.
What's your usage, if I might ask? I have to say that the proliferation of apps over the last two months has added significantly to the iPad's functionality.
heatlesssun
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The biggest function for me now to put it in simple terms is note taking, really more like information taking, anything, and I meant anything that I think I might even remotely won't to keep in a database, I can. Web pages, text notes, ink notes, scanned images, you name it, it put it OneNote and boy it starts to be REALLY useful. How did I have those settings, how do I make that drink. Yeah its like Goggle but it's suit for YOU since you set it up. Just a fantastic way to keep up with bits of knowledge. And the tablet with it's ink adds icing to the cake. Joy down a date of a phone number and its all searchable with solid results on the ink accuracy on a well trained system. Just very practical if you just don't want to forget things.
Not so great on the go because of its size, there's a very primitive app on Windows mobile that will get text info OneNote put that's about it for now.
Plus all the software I like does it's job, got a lot of games that play well on this thing. It's just versatile.
Not so great on the go because of its size, there's a very primitive app on Windows mobile that will get text info OneNote put that's about it for now.
Plus all the software I like does it's job, got a lot of games that play well on this thing. It's just versatile.
Yeah, the iPad wasn't made with the intention of having being a fully-functional OS that is the same, or similar to OSX.