Why doesn't anyone bring back the complexities of the original Rainbow 6 game?!

capt_cope

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So it's been 21 years, but I really miss that level of immersion that the original game brought to the table. The idea that having one of your operators killed on a mission was a permanent thing was also pretty damn cool and WAY ahead of its time. Why are all the new "tactical" shooters so much less tactical than the original? Why can't they just remaster the original - better graphics and a reasonable AI would make a game better than the latest COD and Battlefield combined.

I'ma go drink the rest of this bourbon. Don't mind me.
 

Flogger23m

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Because a game like Ghost Recon Wildlands or Rainbow Six Siege makes more money than a tactical shooter, which is a niche mil-sim genre.

Ready or Not is coming next year which is very much an unofficial sequel to SWAT 3/4 though:

 

capt_cope

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Because a game like Ghost Recon Wildlands or Rainbow Six Siege makes more money than a tactical shooter, which is a niche mil-sim genre.

Ready or Not is coming next year which is very much an unofficial sequel to SWAT 3/4 though:


Man now I'm missing SWAT. Another classic (does Sierra even exist anymore?)
 

termite

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I do not think the average gamer at this point has the patience to actually sit and plan the missions, and then sit through portions of the missions while your other operatives carry out thier objectives.

With maybe the exception of the ARMA games, current "tactical shooters" are just plain FPS with avatars in tactical gear. Sure there are mods here and there but the core games are still just run and gun.

The Original couple of RB6 games were pretty awesome though. It was hugely rewarding when a mission actually worked out as planned.

The SWAT games were also pretty amazing.

Wildlands would have been great if you had the option of giving your AI operatives the granular planning details available in RB6.
 

Denpepe

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Pretty sure Sierra is part of the EA family.

Sierra as a game maker has been dead since 1999 orso, the company still exists as a Publisher owned by Vivendi since 2002 and Activision is also named as a companyu that they work under since 2014.

Not sure how it all is exactly as the company has been sold and changed names a nr of times.
If you want to know some more, you can watch this
 

gamerk2

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Sierra as a game maker has been dead since 1999 orso, the company still exists as a Publisher owned by Vivendi since 2002 and Activision is also named as a companyu that they work under since 2014.

Not sure how it all is exactly as the company has been sold and changed names a nr of times.
If you want to know some more, you can watch this


You are absolutely right; I forgot they were acquired by Vivendi ages ago.
 

Flogger23m

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Have you ever played the original RB6?

Indeed. Rainbow 6 switched genres after Raven Shield. Lockdown was actually a watered down game that somewhat tried to be a tactical shooter but was horribly buggy. For Ghost Recon on the PC side GRAW 1/2 were decent enough. I never played the original but GRAW 1/2 was watered down a lot, but still had a lot of realism and required some tactics. The console versions of those games were more well known and entirely different, those were 3rd person action shooters.

Everything else since then was been a pure action, mainstream game. Ghost Recon Future Soldier - bland 3rd person shooter. Ghost Recon Wildlands - bland 3rd person open world shooter. Rainbow Six Vegas 1/2 - action shooters but fun for what they were. Rainbow Six Siege - Counter Strike mixed with Team Fortress 2. SWAT 5 - thankfully doesn't exist, better to let the series die with dignity.

Replaying SWAT 4 currently. Holds up okay still because there is no game that comes close to offering the same gameplay. Raven Shield is a bit too old for me these days.
 

TheToE!

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So it's been 21 years, but I really miss that level of immersion that the original game brought to the table. The idea that having one of your operators killed on a mission was a permanent thing was also pretty damn cool and WAY ahead of its time. Why are all the new "tactical" shooters so much less tactical than the original? Why can't they just remaster the original - better graphics and a reasonable AI would make a game better than the latest COD and Battlefield combined.

I'ma go drink the rest of this bourbon. Don't mind me.

Jesus, has it really been 21 years? I'm old as fuck.
 

capt_cope

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Jesus, has it really been 21 years? I'm old as fuck.
I know the feeling. Oddly enough I think about that game any time I hear Clair De Lune - I always had a CD with that track in the CD-Rom drive playing in the background when I played the game, not sure why none of the other tracks "stuck" but that song makes me think of R6 EVERY time. And before you scoff, go ahead and play these two videos at the same time (watch the R6 one... ;) ) it just WORKS.

 

MavericK

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I think if they took the engine/concepts from Siege and made a full-fledged RB6 remake/sequel/whatever, it could be really cool. Just add in the planning and stuff from the original game, it already has janky AI (let's face it, original RB6 AI was janky, too) and a lot of "gadgets" and stuff.
 

Flogger23m

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I think if they took the engine/concepts from Siege and made a full-fledged RB6 remake/sequel/whatever, it could be really cool. Just add in the planning and stuff from the original game, it already has janky AI (let's face it, original RB6 AI was janky, too) and a lot of "gadgets" and stuff.

That would still be fairly underwhelming. And for AI, I would hope it is notably better than what we had circa 2003-2005. In these games NPCs do matter because you tend to only have 7-15 on a map so they better be deadly, dynamic and/or unpredictable with the animations to go along with it.

So far Ready or Not is looking good, and really is an updated SWAT game with modern features like aiming down sights and more detailed less lethal effects. Right down to the red & blue team name tags and whatnot. We'll have to wait and see next year, but it looks like it is on track to become a proper tactical shooter.

Edit: Speaking of Ready or Not and AI, a new update is out for RoN.

c47aae146f.png


Still has about a year left of development but is the only thing on the horizon that fills this niche.

You can buy in and get alpha access for $120 but after Take Down Red Sabre I'll wait for release. But if you love these games and don't mind throwing money at the developers with the inherent risks involved, feel free to do so.
 
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J3RK

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I didn't play the original. However, I do miss some complexity in some types of games, and then pure skill in others. The big problem now though, is that people like games to play themselves for them. :D That means, no more Rainbow 6, no more Quake 3 Arena, no more Syndicate, no more Strike Commander...
 

Viper87227

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Keep an eye on Ready or Not. I've been playing the alpha, and while I don't want to give details as its under NDA, suffice it to say that between what's there now and what is planned, it should make for an excellent spiritual successor to SWAT 4.
 

Flogger23m

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Keep an eye on Ready or Not. I've been playing the alpha, and while I don't want to give details as its under NDA, suffice it to say that between what's there now and what is planned, it should make for an excellent spiritual successor to SWAT 4.

Still annoyed they mentioned 2018, then got pushed to 2020 and asked for $120 for the early access. I understand missing goals but by two years? Oh well, at least they only started taking money after they announced 2020 for release. Looking forward to more gameplay videos.

Replayed SWAT 4 with the SEF mod (the lead developer is working on Ready or Not) over the past week.
 

Viper87227

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Replayed SWAT 4 with the SEF mod (the lead developer is working on Ready or Not) over the past week.

I did that over the summer. SEF is great. It really gets me how well SWAT 4 still holds up today. Graphics obviously aren't great and shooting mechanics have changed a lot since then, but its a solid game.
 

Flogger23m

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I did that over the summer. SEF is great. It really gets me how well SWAT 4 still holds up today. Graphics obviously aren't great and shooting mechanics have changed a lot since then, but its a solid game.

I find that the squad AI is a bit more finicky in SEF as sometimes they don't respond to commands, but some of the other changes are nice. The instantly killing of hostage in the Mt. Threshold mission was a nice change but probably not a good idea for a mission with lots of body armor, guys and the amount of small doors to run in and out of. Took me about 10 or more tries and I essentially had to start killing as soon as I spotted as suspect. I found squad AI better in the vanilla game and Sheriff's Special Forces.

Hopefully RoN can make that all a bit smoother as I expect better in 2020.
 

DFenz

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The best Rainbow Six game I played was Raven Shield IMO, but I haven't played any of the more recent ones. The first 4 games were pretty good at their time.

Ready or Not actually looks pretty damn good, I hope it doesn't disappoint. Never saw it til this thread.
 

noxqzs

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I remember Raven Shield. That game was so much fun.

The thing I miss from the first Rainbow6 title is how you could plan your mission and set all the waypoints for your teammates
 
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