Why does Ryzen 7 1800X performs so poorly in games?

Presbytier

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 21, 2016
Messages
1,058
Don't feel like looking too hard or wasting time on it but this is what is on INTELs own site:
Saying it can do something is not the same thing as marketing to a specific market segment like AMD did with gamers and Ryzen
 

tangoseal

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Dec 18, 2010
Messages
9,362
I was gaming more tonight on my Crosshair VI @ DDR4-3200 speed and 3.8ghz Air OC and I was getting rediculous performance.

just throwing it out there since these chips are pure concentrated shit for gaming apparently.

My Oculus Rift is running Flawless with my touch controllers on my 980ti and 1700X OC with fast ram.
 

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
Staff member
Joined
May 18, 1997
Messages
52,961
I was gaming more tonight on my Crosshair VI @ DDR4-3200 speed and 3.8ghz Air OC and I was getting rediculous performance.

just throwing it out there since these chips are pure concentrated shit for gaming apparently.

My Oculus Rift is running Flawless with my touch controllers on my 980ti and 1700X OC with fast ram.
Played Robo Recall for a good while last night on my Ryzen 1700 at 3.966GHz without a hitch. :)
 

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
Staff member
Joined
May 18, 1997
Messages
52,961
Kyle, A Ryzen 1800X demo machine at my local Micro Center smashed the world record for single and multicore performance for CPUZ. He is also running a whole string of benchmarks that will soon be posted on-line. Jim , the sales tech in the cpu area , has been configuring the machine with hardware specified by AMD. 32 GB of DDR4 3200 Dominator Platinum, Nvidia GTX 1080 etc. I believe the Motherboard is ROG Crosshair VI Hero. The cpu is overclocked to 4.05 GHZ and cooled right now with a Kracken 60. That may change as additional hardware s to be added and replace certain items. I will try to keep you posted. Perhaps he can upload some results to my flash drive so I can post it here on the site.
Jim is confident that within a couple months enough gamin otimizations plus better bios stability and memory speeds will neate most of the less than impressive gaming results seen at launch. He said the bios issues hurt oerformance a great deal with added latencies, He expects major windows scheduler revisions to be completed in a few months.
Well, I guess Jim is a lot better connected than all the engineers I talk to at AMD. :) Because I am not hearing that much confidence from inside AMD. That all said, we will tell you what is happening now, and if things change in the future, we will surely tell you then as well.
 

cybereality

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
8,789
I see now why Ryzen is performing so poorly. Look at that clock speed...

NegOne.JPG
 

Dan_D

Extremely [H]
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
60,280
Kyle, A Ryzen 1800X demo machine at my local Micro Center smashed the world record for single and multicore performance for CPUZ. He is also running a whole string of benchmarks that will soon be posted on-line. Jim , the sales tech in the cpu area , has been configuring the machine with hardware specified by AMD. 32 GB of DDR4 3200 Dominator Platinum, Nvidia GTX 1080 etc. I believe the Motherboard is ROG Crosshair VI Hero. The cpu is overclocked to 4.05 GHZ and cooled right now with a Kracken 60. That may change as additional hardware s to be added and replace certain items. I will try to keep you posted. Perhaps he can upload some results to my flash drive so I can post it here on the site.
Jim is confident that within a couple months enough gamin otimizations plus better bios stability and memory speeds will neate most of the less than impressive gaming results seen at launch. He said the bios issues hurt oerformance a great deal with added latencies, He expects major windows scheduler revisions to be completed in a few months.

That RAM recommendation is hilarious given that Ryzen can't clock RAM that high right now. Either this "Jim" is super well connected as Kyle said, or he's talking out his ass.
 

razor1

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Messages
10,120
Kyle, A Ryzen 1800X demo machine at my local Micro Center smashed the world record for single and multicore performance for CPUZ. He is also running a whole string of benchmarks that will soon be posted on-line. Jim , the sales tech in the cpu area , has been configuring the machine with hardware specified by AMD. 32 GB of DDR4 3200 Dominator Platinum, Nvidia GTX 1080 etc. I believe the Motherboard is ROG Crosshair VI Hero. The cpu is overclocked to 4.05 GHZ and cooled right now with a Kracken 60. That may change as additional hardware s to be added and replace certain items. I will try to keep you posted. Perhaps he can upload some results to my flash drive so I can post it here on the site.
Jim is confident that within a couple months enough gamin otimizations plus better bios stability and memory speeds will neate most of the less than impressive gaming results seen at launch. He said the bios issues hurt oerformance a great deal with added latencies, He expects major windows scheduler revisions to be completed in a few months.


Dude the guys a sales men, they tell people their shoe is a phone to sell it lol. GET SMART!

Ah was watching a couple episodes of a great tv show last night :)
 

ecmaster76

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Messages
1,150

Dan_D

Extremely [H]
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
60,280

tangoseal

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Dec 18, 2010
Messages
9,362
That RAM recommendation is hilarious given that Ryzen can't clock RAM that high right now. Either this "Jim" is super well connected as Kyle said, or he's talking out his ass.

Im running my 3200 LPX at 3029 or something like that right now. Id have to check but its def stable and verifiable. Crosshair VI using ram off the QVL.
 

OrangeKhrush

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
1,673
Im running my 3200 LPX at 3029 or something like that right now. Id have to check but its def stable and verifiable. Crosshair VI using ram off the QVL.
I have a new rig up for testing with trident Z 3200 rgb, works a charm
 

Dan_D

Extremely [H]
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
60,280
Im running my 3200 LPX at 3029 or something like that right now. Id have to check but its def stable and verifiable. Crosshair VI using ram off the QVL.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that an ASUS motherboard could do it when no other one will. ASUS is routinely first with finalizing its UEFI. ASUS often has something in the secret sauce with its UEFI BIOS. We saw that with the benchmarks on the Z170 motherboards. ASUS lead the pack in almost all cases. Real world performance is another matter though.
 

OrangeKhrush

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
1,673
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that an ASUS motherboard could do it when no other one will. ASUS is routinely first with finalizing its UEFI. ASUS often has something in the secret sauce with its UEFI BIOS. We saw that with the benchmarks on the Z170 motherboards. ASUS lead the pack in almost all cases. Real world performance is another matter though.
Asus is good but the Aorus 5 is better
 

lolfail9001

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
May 31, 2016
Messages
1,496
The geek bench one?
The Witcher 3 one. Geekbench may be legit, but ya'll forgetting that it has 3 memory subtests that obviously scale up with memory.
I did my own testing using CS:GO on low 720p.
292fps with ddr4 2133
312fps with ddr4 3000
Uhm... Just in case, timings on both were C15 or something similar, right? Because that's... way worse scaling that one would expect.

Anyways, Ryzen apparently performs poorly in Adobe's software too (granted, Broadwell-E performs poorly there too), but just saying.
 

buttons

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Messages
2,114
The Witcher 3 one. Geekbench may be legit, but ya'll forgetting that it has 3 memory subtests that obviously scale up with memory.

Uhm... Just in case, timings on both were C15 or something similar, right? Because that's... way worse scaling that one would expect.

Anyways, Ryzen apparently performs poorly in Adobe's software too (granted, Broadwell-E performs poorly there too), but just saying.

its CL15 3000 -- i didnt check the timings at 2133 -- only installed windows and one pass at stock settings. then i updated bios and set the profile, re-ran benchmark
 

SighTurtle

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
1,410
Isn't Adobe's stuff still more relying on single threaded than more cores, threads, etc?
 

juanrga

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 22, 2017
Messages
2,804
That RAM recommendation is hilarious given that Ryzen can't clock RAM that high right now. Either this "Jim" is super well connected as Kyle said, or he's talking out his ass.

I guess his surname is "Keller" and is telling him supersecret stuff no one else know still. :whistle:
 

Wshmaster0

2[H]4U
Joined
Jul 11, 2007
Messages
3,630
Isn't Adobe's stuff still more relying on single threaded than more cores, threads, etc?

Both After Effects and Premiere benefit from multi c/t (from v 2014 CC and up), there was diminishing returns for higher core counts past 6 and depending on the rendering engine or use of GPU enabled CUDA cores, the last few iterations (esp 2017) is still not fully optimized to use 8 c / t for simultaneous multi frame rendering.

However as a 3D artist my 3D applications will absolutely eat every core and thread I have lol... but if you're a graphic designer or "photographer" that only uses LR/PS, then you're not going to get much out of it.
 

lolfail9001

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
May 31, 2016
Messages
1,496
That RAM recommendation is hilarious given that Ryzen can't clock RAM that high right now. Either this "Jim" is super well connected as Kyle said, or he's talking out his ass.
I mean, according to G.Skill it can. All you need to do is run modified BCLK, Samsung B-die and appropriately chosen die. But the trick here is that i do not remember Corsair using B-die in their stuff :p
its CL15 3000 -- i didnt check the timings at 2133 -- only installed windows and one pass at stock settings. then i updated bios and set the profile, re-ran benchmark
Yeah, so both C15... Weird as hell.
 

OrangeKhrush

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
1,673
Also of note is the fact there are still GPU limited games even at 1080. The division is clearly hitting a GPU bottleneck there no other explanation as to why all the games are at the exact same frames even the Pentium is not far off.

Most games sit on the GPU, no game really scales beyond 4 threads with great efficiency. I think the issue with the few anomaly titles is that they conflict with Ryzen and how the CPU gets to its peak performance
 

Presbytier

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 21, 2016
Messages
1,058
Most games sit on the GPU, no game really scales beyond 4 threads with great efficiency. I think the issue with the few anomaly titles is that they conflict with Ryzen and how the CPU gets to its peak performance
Right. The Division looks like a GPU bottleneck though. Hitman and ROTR is odd because they scale fine on Broadwell E, so it probably has something to do with a conflict specific to Ryzen's architecture.
 

juanrga

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 22, 2017
Messages
2,804
But that again isn't how it works. Ryzen isn't losing because the game puts a bigger demand on the CPU at this point. All it does it is cause the GPU to ask the CPU for page refreshes as fast as it can handle them and for the most part no processor in these tests are sitting at 99%. The fact is more CPU stressful games are asking the system for more actual work to get done. When that happens it's usually a developer actually leveraging MT tasks to increase CPU processing to handle things like Physics, AI, and other CPU used tasks. When those things happen (like BF MP) the Ryzen shines.

On top of all that. Outside uber competitive CSgo (pro) players, all most everyone keeps the GPU as the bottleneck (for looks). That shift keeps moving and as long as the CPU can send the workload needed for GPU, then there isn't an issue, and these again have for some reason I don't understand actually have Ryzen very very very slightly ahead (normal variance if it wasn't so wide spread). That 2 FPS at 1440 high probably matters more than 20 FPS at 1080p low.

I hope this article clarifies my point and that of reviewers

http://www.techspot.com/news/68407-...ottlenecking-cpu-gaming-benchmarks-using.html
 
Top