Why do you hate Apple? (intelligent discussion)

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eggrock

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I love that apple is one of the only companies that inspire palatable hatred more for how their fans act and not the quality of their merchandise. It would be an interesting experiment if you gave a diehard apple hater the option of being given a fully loaded to the gills top of the line macbook pro with the caveat that they had to use it as their primary laptop and for not less than 50% of their total computing time for let's say six months. You could run similar test with linux and windows.

I suspect that familiarity would breed appreciation, not contempt. I used to hate Windows when I worked primarily with Macs, but not it's my preferred OS. Didn't have an opinion about Unix/Linux until I used it, and I love (no-GUI) Unix.

That only leaves me with about 248 flavors of Linux to 'hate'. And AS400 users, they're all bastards! ;)
 

dr.stevil

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I'm surprised this hasn't turned into a flame war. I didn't think it was possible to have a rational discussion about Apple on here.

Thanks for contributing and keep 'em coming.
 

cheenou77

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Honestly, I just hate their mouses. lol. I just can't stand them no matter how man design changes they are going to make.
 

auspexd

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I suspect that familiarity would breed appreciation, not contempt. I used to hate Windows when I worked primarily with Macs, but not it's my preferred OS. Didn't have an opinion about Unix/Linux until I used it, and I love (no-GUI) Unix.

That only leaves me with about 248 flavors of Linux to 'hate'. And AS400 users, they're all bastards! ;)

Nah, AS400 users are alright, most of them are just cranky because they have worn out their semicolon key. You really have to watch out for those BeOS users... now that is a weird bunch of folks.
 

Snowdog

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+1

I've never encountered an elitist Apple person. Not once.

If anything, it's been the other way around -- I run into diehard Android or diehard pc people who are ultra anti-Apple. They usually go on about how terrible Apple is and how superior their stuff is.

Then they complain about how elitist Apple people are.

Yea, ok.

Same here.

I often find myself defending Apple (and users) for precisely this reason, in spite of the fact that I have never owned a single Apple product in my life (so far).

I don't think I have ever seen Apple users engage in the kind of blanket insults that generic Apple-Haters engage in. A common refrain among these Haters is that the only reason Apple products sells is that users are all brainwashed morons (usually accompanied by words like iSheep, iDiots etc..). This is nothing but a baseless, unfair insult to millions of people who buy Apple products.

Then you have the Spec Sheet Nerds. Who seem to simply think that best spec sheet = best product (or spec sheet/price), while failing utterly to take detail execution into account.

And don't forget the hard core "Open" crowd who hate walled gardens with a strange passion, in spite of the fact that on balance they do more good than harm, and that Macs aren't even in a walled garden.

I think a lot of this Hater nonsense stems from a childish need to "prove" that their purchase decision was best.

People should be able to look at the success of thing they didn't choose without getting wound up about it.

There are a lot of reasons I never bought an Apple product ( No Mid Tower Mac, itunes vs drag and drop) but I still recognize that Apple does fantastic work, has moved the industry forward and can be a downright smart buying choice.

I have zero need to insult everyone who merely chooses a different product than me, and I wish more of my fellow Windows users felt the same.
 
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DarkStarr

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I was forced to use them here and there throughout college for graphic design classes, which I gave my professor a really hard time about, and experienced the same old issues that initially turned me off (the pinwheel of death and losing work). I thought that they were god awfully ugly as well with really crappy build quality (those old plastic G4 all-in-ones).

I've used macs at school and liked them, However, I would never buy one for home use because they're just too expensive. Any added value of software or OS is completely lost due to obscene costs.

I had to use them in a graphics design class and it sucked because they were OLD. Most were Power Mac G4s, some were Power Mac G5s and only 1 row (1 row = ~10 PCs) was newer. They were Mac Pros, which were 2x Dual core Xeons (luckily I worked on one of these) but they were so horribly slow due to..... 1gb of ram.... The sad thing was, it was fairly recent too and they were going to have to upgrade for Adobe CS5 because the hardware was too old. (Evidently 06 and earlier) Not to mention the hilarious crash that only happened once during the class, I inserted my flash drive and BOOM instant kernel panic reboot, I just stared t it for about 5 minutes before attempting to reinsert my flash drive. Before the class started I built a newer PC and spent about $900 at the time for the entire thing with a quad core AMD chip and 4gb of ram and 5750. That was why I ended up doing most of the work on my home PC, go Adobe trials. Anyways another thing was THE MOUSE!!! Goodness I hated that thing, I tried right clicking in Illustrator and every time I moved a point it took the computer 30/45 seconds to recalculate the effects applied to the image. On my home PC, it was almost instant. The most major point is, I like working on my PC, I like upgrading, dual GPUs, SLI/CFX just working on them and customizing them in general, you can't really do that to Macs. The last reason is cost, not just because of the high cost but because its just unnecessarily expensive since I could build a comparable PC for less. (Mac Pro vs PC, but I also wouldn't get a AIO (of ANY brand) due to the fact of customization and higher heat and reduced performance, iMacs are basically deskbound laptops)

I like the OS OK, it had a few cool features but nothing amazing IMHO, I did love the dock bar however so I added one to my PC and have used it since, it has helped clean up my desktop so much and add quicker access to programs I use a lot.

I Dislike them because they are an anti-competitive force in the market that convinces people they invented things they did not. All the lawsuits they are filing are completely out of hand. They apply for patents for things they didn't invent and take advantage of how poor the screening process for accepting patents is. Most of these patents end up getting thrown out when they are reviewed in court. They also cut support for my not even 4 year old macbook in the newest OS. Windows 7/8 runs on old pentium 4's from 2001 (even pentium 3's if your crazy). I have a 2003 dell (prescott 3.2) that I got free that it runs great on. Mountain Lion won't even run on a 2008 white/black macbook. Theres no reason for this, the hardware is more than capable of running the OS. They simply want people to spend another 1300 on a new machine. They also spit on their suppliers with threats. They start patenting things related to touchscreens and they don't even make those touchscreens. Someone else does. By limiting other companies from using features of touchscreens they are hurting their supplier. If Steve Jobs could have taken his money with him to the grave, he would have. (It was pretty much his only friend) Not even his co-founder of Apple Wozniak was good friends with him.

I agree its nuts, that why I wouldn't buy their hardware, since you have to constantly update your hardware to get the latest software, I mean even the iPods/iPhones are the same way, the 1st Gen Touch could only go to 3.1.3, 2nd Gen Touch was 4.2.1 3rd Gen Touch hasn't had its last update yet but I am sure it won't be much longer till it gets the same treatment. I mean I like the touches but I was annoyed by the fact they didn't update the touch line this last time, I mean come on a white touch is the "major" update. WHO CARES, that and the 4th Gens are a bit slim to me, I would have liked a newer model with the A5 and a similar size of the iPhone 4 but obviously larger battery since the touch doesn't have the phone circuitry. Anyways if its not updated this year then they are killing it.

I agree with the patents though they have just been going overboard lately.

EDIT: Can someone PLEASE tell me what is so horrible about iTunes (on windows I guess)?
 
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wonderfield

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iTunes for Windows tends to become unresponsive during some operations. People also dislike iTunes because the installer will install other Apple services, like Bonjour, unless you opt out.

These are perfectly reasonable criticisms. Other criticisms against iTunes tend not to be so reasonable.
 

TeeJayHoward

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TO match the dell on the macbook pro you'd have to add in 3 year apple care, and get a 7200rpm drive.

Its pretty clear you went to dells website looking for a specific model that would cost more than Apples.
Not really, I just went looking for something that fit the requirements. The E6420 didn't show up in my search for some reason. You do need to add a 9-cell battery to compete with Apple's 8-10 hour battery life, which increases the weight of the laptop to 6.9lbs, and adds $80 to the price. Aside from that, it does seem very evenly matched. And thanks for pointing out my flaw in the casing. I looked at the picture and assumed. I'll go back and change my post.

I also can't seem to find the 500GB HDD as an option:
storages.png


So, final total:
$1,018 Dell (weighs more, lower PPI on screen, less HDD?)
$999-1099 Mac (less warranty)

I'd still say the prices are comparable.

And If you knew how dell, hp, lenovo, sony, and others work they are always on sale.
That's just mean. What did I do to indicate that I was unaware of how dell.com works?
 
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DarkStarr

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iTunes for Windows tends to become unresponsive during some operations. People also dislike iTunes because the installer will install other Apple services, like Bonjour, unless you opt out.

These are perfectly reasonable criticisms. Other criticisms against iTunes tend not to be so reasonable.


Hmm, don't seem to have any "responsiveness" issues and I use it almost exclusively for music, WMP w/ Mega Codec Pack for ALL video. iTunes due to the iPod but less complicated than having multiple players for crap.
 

Formula.350

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Apple will drop the price tag once Mercedes-Benz, Lexus, BMW, Tag Heuer, Ralph Lauren, Nike, Mont Blanc, Movado, Burberry, etc do the same with the plenty of equal/better alternatives for a fraction of the "insane" prices that their products cost.

That's not a very good comparison if you're trying to say what I think you are (which means you are against what I've said). Those are, for the most part, high quality and quality made products. Apple products are only differing in case design essentially. Yea, some of their hardware is made for them based on certain specs that Apple has came up with, but tear that apart and it's not exactly that special either. MacBook (or whatever they're calling them now?) even can end up with a rather crippled Core i7 (capped speed for heat), just because they wanted a slightly thinner model laptop o_0 So you pay $1300, for a 1-3mm thinner laptop, and a crippled processor :rolleyes: lol

Or are you agreeing with me, and saying essentially "Well, how else are they going to pay for their pompus cars and clothes unless they 2x the premium!"? :D


Just as an opposing perspective, I have seen more people who are high-horse and anti-Mac than the other way round, all of which cannot prove that their Windows systems are "superior", as such.

+1

I've never encountered an elitist Apple person. Not once.

If anything, it's been the other way around -- I run into diehard Android or diehard pc people who are ultra anti-Apple. They usually go on about how terrible Apple is and how superior their stuff is.

Then they complain about how elitist Apple people are.

Yea, ok.



Most of the people I've came across in real life, say when out with friends, you'll hear someone talking about phones and it migrates to something like this (which is not an isolated incident, mind you):
Person A: "Got myself a new smartphone this week, with <specs/features>, I really like it."
Person B:"Oh, yea I got the iPhone, I just can't imagine using something like that <model of Person A's phone>

It gets really bad if you're reading the comments about the all the damn lawsuits APPLE started ;) Yea, there are equally attitude-rich people backing up the company/ies being sued, but then most of the time (I shat you not) the Apple fanbois come in and say something short on the order of "If you can't see the similarities between <product A> and <product B> then you're either blind or ignorant, or both!" And then you see no retort when they're called out on it, and others including many logical and reasonable ways it is not violating any patent designs. How much of the kool-aid do you have to drink to blindly believe the suits to not even backup what you say in the comments in response to someone else :rolleyes: lol
 

GeekTech

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iTunes for Windows tends to become unresponsive during some operations. People also dislike iTunes because the installer will install other Apple services, like Bonjour, unless you opt out.

These are perfectly reasonable criticisms. Other criticisms against iTunes tend not to be so reasonable.

I loathe iTunes, it's a bloated piece of whale excrement. If you have anything resembling a large library it will hang during even basic operations. If I try loading my entire library (102,000 tracks give or take) into it, it becomes worthless. Not too mention, there is no reason it should be such a memory hog. This isn't 2005.
 

DarkStarr

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....... Why is your library so MASSIVE? I have just about all of the music I like in mine and its tiny, only a few thousand.
 

Snowdog

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I loathe iTunes, it's a bloated piece of whale excrement. If you have anything resembling a large library it will hang during even basic operations. If I try loading my entire library (102,000 tracks give or take) into it, it becomes worthless. Not too mention, there is no reason it should be such a memory hog. This isn't 2005.

I never really had to use iTunes, but I thought I would just give it a shot and I have to agree that iTunes on Windows is very bloated/slow. Apple really should be embarrassed about iTunes on Windows IMO. I am sure it's poor functioning costs them sales.

As necessary software for managing iPhones/iPods/iPads, Apple should hire a team of great Windows Developers and completely re-write iTunes into something that people would actually want to use. They have near 100 Billion dollars in the bank that they aren't sure what to do with.

Hell hire the folks who did Foobar/Winamp etc to fix iTunes.
 

GeekTech

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....... Why is your library so MASSIVE? I have just about all of the music I like in mine and its tiny, only a few thousand.

I dunno, lol. I love music, and soak it up any chance I can. I download dozens of discographies a day, sometimes much more.

Here is my current library loaded in Spotify (which handles it excellent btw).

e0PTI.jpg


I never really had to use iTunes, but I thought I would just give it a shot and I have to agree that iTunes on Windows is very bloated/slow. Apple really should be embarrassed about iTunes on Windows IMO. I am sure it's poor functioning costs them sales.

As necessary software for managing iPhones/iPods/iPads, Apple should hire a team of great Windows Developers and completely re-write iTunes into something that people would actually want to use. They have near 100 Billion dollars in the bank that they aren't sure what to do with.

Hell hire the folks who did Foobar/Winamp etc to fix iTunes.

I completely agree. They should totally abandon iTunes on Windows and hand it over to the former Zune team.
 
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GreenMonkey

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I don't have a lot against Macs (except the prices), if you don't want to play games.

But I loathe the iPad and to a lesser extent, the iPhone. I had an ipod touch for a year - but man, so glad to replace it with a (slower) Optimus V Android phone.

The iPad should have been a tech geek's greatest dream. Instead we get no expansion ports, the disgusting walled garden of apps, no USB, no video out, etc.

I like to do fun stuff - like getting Maniac Mansion running under Android/ScummVM for the wife. Playing NES on a USB NES controller. And less fun stuff - like simply pulling photos from the camera SD card.

Plus, I loathe itunes - I don't get why it is well liked - I find it very unintuitive and cripplingly incapable of doing useful things. Something as simple as getting pdfs onto the iPad for class had my wife doing all sorts of stupid stuff. Drag and drop transfer is a necessity to me. USB ports and memory card slots are necessities to me. And being able to run whatever I want on it - not whatever Apple wants - is a necessity for a computing device to me.
 

Snowdog

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Plus, I loathe itunes - I don't get why it is well liked

I suspect it is better on Macs.

On Windows, I think Apple tries to duplicate too many OSX subsystems, rather than using native windows systems, resulting in a ridiculous 200MB + install.

Where something like Foobar is 9MB, fast and slick.
 

dr.stevil

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I don't have a lot against Macs (except the prices), if you don't want to play games.

But I loathe the iPad and to a lesser extent, the iPhone. I had an ipod touch for a year - but man, so glad to replace it with a (slower) Optimus V Android phone.

The iPad should have been a tech geek's greatest dream. Instead we get no expansion ports, the disgusting walled garden of apps, no USB, no video out, etc.

I like to do fun stuff - like getting Maniac Mansion running under Android/ScummVM for the wife. Playing NES on a USB NES controller. And less fun stuff - like simply pulling photos from the camera SD card.

Plus, I loathe itunes - I don't get why it is well liked - I find it very unintuitive and cripplingly incapable of doing useful things. Something as simple as getting pdfs onto the iPad for class had my wife doing all sorts of stupid stuff. Drag and drop transfer is a necessity to me. USB ports and memory card slots are necessities to me. And being able to run whatever I want on it - not whatever Apple wants - is a necessity for a computing device to me.

Next time your wife needs PDF's transfered, just email them to herself as an attachment. When you open said attachment in mail.app, it will ask you if you want to add them to ibooks (or any other reader app you have installed). From that point forward, it will always be in that library until you delete it.

Also, if you want drag and drop functionality (I really hate itunes aswell), just use iFunBox. It's faster, easier and more convenient than having to 'sync' anytime you want to add media to the device. You don't even have to be jailbroken to use it... although, if you want 'geek' control over one, I highly suggest looking into it.
 

wonderfield

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But I loathe the iPad and to a lesser extent, the iPhone. I had an ipod touch for a year - but man, so glad to replace it with a (slower) Optimus V Android phone. The iPad should have been a tech geek's greatest dream. Instead we get no expansion ports, the disgusting walled garden of apps, no USB, no video out, etc.
That's a bit akin to saying that you find simple two-seater cars disgusting because they don't have four seats and satellite navigation.

I mean, are you genuinely disgusted by a product you have no use for? Or would it be more appropriate to say that you simply have no interest in it?
 

jojo69

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I have always found appl products to be solid, if overpriced, stuff that just works. My only hatred is for the mixture of arrogance and cluelessness in their user base.
 

Snowdog

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I have always found appl products to be solid, if overpriced, stuff that just works. My only hatred is for the mixture of arrogance and cluelessness in their user base.

As said before where? We have a whole forum here with lots of arguments about Apple for years.

I see much more arrogance coming from my fellow Windows users (and lately Android users) than I ever have from Apple users. It isn't even close, not like 60:40, it is more like 1000:1.

And the irrational outright seething hatred, that is more like 1000000:1.
 

Nicterys

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That's not a very good comparison if you're trying to say what I think you are (which means you are against what I've said). Those are, for the most part, high quality and quality made products.
Burberry, Nike, and Ralph Lauren all manufacture in China. Mercedes-Benz and BMW's are made in the same assembly line process as cheaper cars and the Japanese luxury brands in the same price range as MB/BMW build their entry and mid-level cars on the exact or similar platforms as their primary brand vehicles and change exterior/interior styling, the badge on the car, and add luxury amenities. For example, at home we have a Lexus GX which is based on the Toyota 4Runner.

If Apple came back to the U.S. and built their products in the same way as a Tag Heuer/Movado watch or Mont Blanc's pens, I'm certain that you wouldn't give them that same pass and keep focusing solely on the price they charge for hardware.
 

Empty_Quarter

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I came to this thread late, so I skimmed it, excuse if this has been mentioned, but here are my two cents worth.

There are many reasons why I don’t favor apple. I don’t hate them per se, but if put on a balancing scale, I always favor the alternatives.

One thing about apple that really bothers me is its proprietary nature, both hardware, and software. There are workarounds of course, but it’s not as simple as a PC. Excellent software examples is itunes (which I loathe), and iphoto (even more so). Apple really has this attitude of “you do it our way, or no way”. Sure, there are workarounds, like picasa instead of iphoto (I really dispise iphoto, you have ZERO control over the pics organization). When I used iphoto, it crossed all sorts of lines with me, you can organize my music, but you cannot organize my photos for me, fuck that. To those who say that itunes on a mac is smoother, lies, its not, I tried.

I am a control freak, needless to say, I like being in control of something, I don’t like the computer telling me how to do thing, I want my stuff organized the way I want to. Apple, unfortunately, will not give me that flexibility. Their rigidness is very obvious in their computer line-up, you have a mediocre all-in-one packages, which is very limited as far hardware goes, to the full blown solution of the mac pro, which is ridiculously priced for what you get. There is no middle ground between the imac, and the mac pro. Don’t get me wrong, I think the imac offers incredible value as an all-in-one, and considered it multiple times, but… where do I put my TBs of HDDs? Even if I do get the mac pro, I still don’t even have enough HDD slots. This is where the macs gets stupid expensive.

Then you have all the arguments pro OSX, really, this is an invalid argument nowadays. It was fair to assume that OSX was far superior and stable when compared to XP/Vista, but I have found Windows 7 to be very usable, very stable, and far more productive than OSX. I for example really like the fact that you can snap windows to one half of a screen (on windows).

I do however have an open mind. So… I did buy a mac. Last year, I walked into the apple store, and purchased the mac mini, keen to see what all the hype was about (as far as software went, if I liked it, I’d get the imac). I went home with excitement, plugged it in, figured it out in a day or so, and after that, I hated it. I felt I could do more, and be more organized, and have more control with windows. I felt trapped, the same sort of feeling when you sign a three year contract at your wireless service provider, I wasn’t pleased, there was nothing at all to justify the hype, so I returned it for a full refund a week later.

I don’t really get the “it’s a mac bro, it just works” attitude. Ever since windows 7 came along, I have had NO issues whatsoever with reliability, both on my desktops and laptops, they too just work! If you get a windows 7 machine similar, if not better spec’d than a mbp (because you can for the $), and have “problems”, you’re doing it wrong.

And then of course, there’s the price… It’s no secret that macs are way too fucking expensive, on every regard, there’s nothing that’s reasonably priced, if the machine can be justified, their accessories too are highly priced. Some have better value than others, but at the end of the day, for what you get (and don’t get), it's costly. I’d rather get my own tailored solution that would fit my needs better for the price of a mac. I see many justify the cost of an imac because it comes with a $1000 panel. Well… what if I don’t care for the panel? It’s still an overpriced machine, and the specs are horrid. When looking for a workstation laptop a few years ago, the Lenovo W500 had far better hardware for a $1000 less (there are sales + god bless Lenovo coupon codes) the MBP 15 was selling at. I just went to lenovo.ca, matched the W520 to the MBP spec wise, and the W520 is $500 cheaper, AND the W520 has better VGA and CPU to boot at stock. I can get significant upgrades for $500. (Check for yourself, canadian websites)

Case in point: Apple does have its moments, the iphone and ipad are indeed excellent value, and were revolutionary for its time, there was nothing else that the competition had that could compete with. Sure, there were phones with better hardware, but as an overall package, the iphone was better. Now though, android has the upper hand, apple is playing catch up, and whatever the next iphone will feature will be based on the newer android phones (LTE, bigger screen, higher res, etc… same ol’ schpiel) . Ipad still rules the tablet market. Not to mention, now that I switched to an android, OMFG am I enjoying the flexibility, I can do anything, I can access the directory and move stuff around like a computer, I DON’T NEED ITUNES! To top it off android market is matured enough that it pretty much competes with the appstore.

The one thing apple is great for is providing an OVERALL PACKAGE. If you want a little bit of everything, and you want everything to be compatible with the other, then yes, sure, it works. Its great for my mom who doesn’t know the first thing about computers, because the computer does all the work for you. But I don’t want a little bit of everything, I know what I want, and I know what I do not want. I don’t want a “package” of a computer that doesn’t meet what I need (whether its hardware or software), and this is why I do not have, nor prefer a mac.

And the apple elitist/hipster/buying because its trendy, has some truth to it. I’ve typed too much.
 

wrxdrunkie

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My biggest problem has always just been the OS.

I grew up with macs in elementary. It seemed like every action began with clicking the HDD icon that was always on the desktop with macs.

I then bought my first mac about 5 years ago in college; a black macbook. I used it for about a year or two and upgraded to the unibody macbook pro. Used the unibody macbook for a while along with my windows desktop.

I worked at apple doing tech support for a while also so I was using a mac desktop like 8 hours a day.

At the end of the day I switched back for a few main reasons:

1) window management was just too hard for me, sometimes windows would be stuck in the bottom corners and I'm opening programs that I didn't want to open. Or I can't even bring a window I had open back to the front of the screen. I would have to use a keyboard shortcut a lot of the time just to find the window I am looking for.

2) The file system. After years of working with a mac I still don't know quite how the file system works. Adding music to iTunes was weird, I would end up with all of these duplicated. iPhoto and the pictures folder interaction was just weird. Duplicate songs, ! songs, moving files, copying files. I was slower at all of this and didn't really understand how the OS was using the file system.

Those are really the two main things that are keeping me from macs.
I am also a PC gamer and love the xbox so the connectivity their is nice.


The technology enthusiast in me was still in line for the original iPhone day 1 as well as the iPad and I loved em both, it was a big reason why I wanted to try out macs in the first place, but I just couldn't stand the window management or the file system.
 

Adzsask

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Looks are, well feminine to say it nicely, cost is 3X anyone else, heat issues, get viruses (come on apple is impenetrable!) resale value is comical, I could go on for a long long time.
 

!@#$%^&*()

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I never understood people who complain about MBP's "costing so much more"


They're comparable to equally built/specced machines from Dell and Lenovo. In some cases, even cheaper.

I can't stand people who sit down next to me in lecture with their giant 15" plastic Dell jet engine and tell me how it has the same specs as my mbp and was half the price.

Then about 2 hours into the lecture they're fumbling around looking for a place to plug in, lol.
 

valve1138

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I have always found appl products to be solid, if overpriced, stuff that just works. My only hatred is for the mixture of arrogance and cluelessness in their user base.

General statements like that just show your ignorance.
 

wonderfield

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Looks are, well feminine to say it nicely, cost is 3X anyone else, heat issues, get viruses (come on apple is impenetrable!) resale value is comical, I could go on for a long long time.
Re-read the topic title. Note that it's a call for intelligent discussion.
 

viralcow

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I don't know how you think Macbook pro's are competitvely priced. I go check right now. HP DV6Z QUAD with A8-3550MX and 7690M gpu is ~$650. This isn't from resellers nor is it using some 30% coupon.

Cheapest Macbook Pro on the Apple website or MacMall = over $1000 with Intel HD 3000 and i5.
And these days, PCs are becoming less bulky and more eye-pleasing.

Not that I dislike Macs. I love my iPad.
 

scaarbelly

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They have the best thin a light notebooks, however, I would be willing to pay a little more for that. Not $1000 more. Also for me personally, I want freedom with every aspect of my pc, for both software and hardware, Apple is a one size fits all product.
 

!@#$%^&*()

Limp Gawd
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I don't know how you think Macbook pro's are competitvely priced. I go check right now. HP DV6Z QUAD with A8-3550MX and 7690M gpu is ~$650. This isn't from resellers nor is it using some 30% coupon.

Cheapest Macbook Pro on the Apple website or MacMall = over $1000 with Intel HD 3000 and i5.
And these days, PCs are becoming less bulky and more eye-pleasing.

Not that I dislike Macs. I love my iPad.

You just proved my point

you're comparing a plastic jet engine to a business class laptop that are not even remotely close in form factor (13.3" vs 15.6")

Go look at the HP Envy Spectre 14" for a far better comparison.

edit: apparently HP stopped using aluminum for their casings in the envy line
 
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Serpico

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Their gear is too expensive. They will NEVER lure any form of enthusiast over to Apple with gear that costs 100% more than a PC equivilent. I put together an i7 2600k, 16GB, GTX580, SSD and a 120hz 27" LCD for around $600 less than Apple's entry level "high performance' iMac 27".

There is a big difference in price between the 2560x1440 IPS display in the iMac and a 1920x1080p 120hz TN display that you're talking about. The iMac's monitor alone costs $1000+ from other manufacturers (Dell, NEC, etc). There's also a problem comparing a DIY tower PC build and an all-in-one seeing as they are both engineered differently have have different thermal restrictions. It is like comparing a desktop tower PC with a laptop, it isn't exactly a 1:1 price:spec comparison. I have both an iMac and a tower PC, and there are advantages and disadvantages to both. Everyone should evaluate what their needs are and base their purchase after that.
 

Serpico

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You just proved my point

you're comparing a plastic jet engine to a business class laptop that are not even remotely close in form factor (13.3" vs 15.6")

Go look at the HP Envy Spectre 14" for a far better comparison.

edit: apparently HP stopped using aluminum for their casings in the envy line

Chassis aside, they are also ignoring the differences in display quality (huge), keyboard, and trackpad.

The HP Elitebooks are the better comparison, not only in terms of specs but in terms of the kind of customer service the product qualifies for (business vs HP's garbage tech support for consumers).
 

!@#$%^&*()

Limp Gawd
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There is a big difference in price between the 2560x1440 IPS display in the iMac and a 1920x1080p 120hz TN display that you're talking about. The iMac's monitor alone costs $1000+ from other manufacturers (Dell, NEC, etc). There's also a problem comparing a DIY tower PC build and an all-in-one seeing as they are both engineered differently have have different thermal restrictions. It is like comparing a desktop tower PC with a laptop, it isn't exactly a 1:1 price:spec comparison. I have both an iMac and a tower PC, and there are advantages and disadvantages to both. Everyone should evaluate what their needs are and base their purchase after that.

Furthermore hasn't it been common knowledge for YEARS that building anything with parts is generally going to be cheaper than purchasing a pre-made?

I mean.. come on now people. Apple haters seem to just pull this shit out of their ass.

"Hey guys I put together a system from parts on Newegg and its cheaper than the Apple desktop!"

Well, ok, no shit. Same could be said for any of the high-end gaming desktop manufacturers?
 

Serpico

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+1

I've never encountered an elitist Apple person. Not once.

If anything, it's been the other way around -- I run into diehard Android or diehard pc people who are ultra anti-Apple. They usually go on about how terrible Apple is and how superior their stuff is.

Then they complain about how elitist Apple people are.

Yea, ok.

It is probably because I mainly hang in PC forums but I agree, the amount of vitriol and arrogance I see is far worse coming from the PC elitist side than the Mac side. If you are like me and happily use both you are still a fanboy in their eyes, it is pretty funny.
 

scaarbelly

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Furthermore hasn't it been common knowledge for YEARS that building anything with parts is generally going to be cheaper than purchasing a pre-made?

I mean.. come on now people. Apple haters seem to just pull this shit out of their ass.

"Hey guys I put together a system from parts on Newegg and its cheaper than the Apple desktop!"

Well, ok, no shit. Same could be said for any of the high-end gaming desktop manufacturers?

The same could be said about HP, Dell, etc. But building your own is only a small amount cheaper, but with much better components. Apple uses the same crappy components but add $1000 for OSx. The touchpad is better on an Apple but not $500 better, neither is the display for that matter.

It is probably because I mainly hang in PC forums but I agree, the amount of vitriol and arrogance I see is far worse coming from the PC elitist side than the Mac side. If you are like me and happily use both you are still a fanboy in their eyes, it is pretty funny.

I would agree here because 99% of the mac users I know don't know jack shit about technology to give a crap to be a fanboy. They just heard a mac was what they needed to buy and therefore bought one.
 
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