Why do you hate Apple? (intelligent discussion)

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dr.stevil

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[Seriously... since every thread about it seems to devolve into, what an outsider would perceive as, a bunch teenage girls arguing about consumer electronics, I wanted to start a thread away from the front page with some actual rational discussion. Be completely honest, I have a lot more respect for someone that hates them 'just because' than using some fake moral line in the sand.

It really interests me because I used to be a really really hardcore "PC or nothing" "Apple is a POS" guy when I was younger. To this day, I still have friends and family that refuse to use an Apple product based on my previous convictions. I was confrontational (a douche bag) with people that preferred Apple over another product, when 9 times out of 10, they really didn't care what I thought or used and usually took me asking to even know what they used a Mac in the first place. It really makes me cringe now that I'm a little older. In the grand scheme of things, who gives a shit if someone doesn't like the same brand?

It's a little long winded, but necessary (IMO) to get across my thought process.

What made me despise them was their hardware and interface (which I can now appreciate what they were trying to go for, even though it missed the mark). Back when I first got into computers, I had a hand-me-down 8086 that no one really knew how to use (I'm eternally grateful that my father used computers to a small degree before and knew some of the basics that he taught me) . Around that time, I think the 286 had recently made it's way into a lot of home computers. I (as did most people here I'm sure) grew up using a command line interface. As I learned commands and switches, I began to explore the rest of what DOS had to offer. I can't describe how psyched I was as an 8 or 9 year old kid learning, what I thought were, the deep fundamentals of computing when I discovered how to use diskspace. With some software and trial and error, I was able to get my 5MB hard drive to store 10MB worth of data.

Books about computers were really hard to come by as a child and 'grownups' didn't generally know a whole lot about them back then. Most everything you had to teach yourself or learn from friends. For years, the command line was a source of entertainment. I used to get a kick out of writing batch files and then re-writing them again to make it as elaborate as possible with as few lines as possible or calling BBS systems with the hand-me-down fax modem my dad was able to get with some other spare parts. When windows 3.1 become mainstream, I felt like a badass in the classroom and I was able to really get away with quite a bit due to my time with DOS (since windows was just a shell). I used to drive my teachers insane :D

Anyway, so when I made it to middle-school, I had my first real experience with a mac. I used to spend my study halls in the school library, using one of the only two computers in the building (both identical) trying to learn on it the same way I learned a PC. To my horror, it was incredibly locked down. I couldn't access the command line/console, I couldn't write native mac "batch" files, I couldn't manually configure the start up sequence and I didn't understand at that time why it wouldn't read my FAT floppy disks. I honestly thought that it was the biggest POS on the planet, despite it's user interface. That's not even addressing the instability issues (random lockups), memory errors and incompatibility with hardware and peripherals that I already owned for a PC.

From that point forward, I swore off Apple forever. I gave it an honest chance with absolutely no preconceived notions about Apple or a Mac and I found the whole experience infuriating. I was forced to use them here and there throughout college for graphic design classes, which I gave my professor a really hard time about, and experienced the same old issues that initially turned me off (the pinwheel of death and losing work). I thought that they were god awfully ugly as well with really crappy build quality (those old plastic G4 all-in-ones).

So I harbored that opinion of Apple for quite a long time and refused to use ANY Apple product. Around 6 months before the Uni-Body macs came out I remember betting a friend, who was fond of Apple, that "there's no way they're using a chassis milled out of a solid piece of aluminum". My reasoning was A. they didn't need to, as nobody else was and B. it would be god awfully expensive to do (as at this time, I got a job doing product design and engineering), despite rumors otherwise. A few months later, I had egg all over my face. The design REALLY impressed me, but I wasn't going to 'go to the darkside' just because they made a nice looking laptop.

Around that time, Apple released the iPhone. Shortly after, and mocking the people buying them (while anticipating the rumors of a Google phone), said friend that I bet above had purchased one. My friends and I were all heading over to his house that evening for a poker game. It took a lot of convincing for him to let me mess around with it, as he probably though I was going to break it lol, but I was absolutely blown away.

The concept of a FULL web browser, email, google maps and other functions available at a consumer level was pretty revolutionary. The biggest thing before it, at the consumer level, was probably the Sidekick or the Motorolla Razor. You needed a clunky enterprise device that used pretty crappy technology in general (resistive touch screen and stylus's we're still better than the blackberry 'ball' though lol) if you wanted similar functionality on a phone. It had an amazing touchscreen and was incredibly responsive. It felt like you were holding a full fledged computer in your hands that was fully connected to an unlimited data stream. Nothing I had ever used, that was that small and thin, had performed that well.

I was sold. The very next day I went to Cingular (I think the store hadn't changed yet at the time) and purchased an iPhone. To this day, I can't help but appreciate the design decisions that they make and the ease of use that they strive for (although often messing it up). I do think that a lot of my opinion was based on the way that I wanted their products to work, versus how they were designed to work (except the pinwheel of death)

I'm still a power user and advocate using and building PC's (I'm a technology fanboy... if it uses new tech, I'm generally interested in it), but after realizing how I was potentially missing out on things that might make my life easier or work better for a particular situation, I try to keep a more open mind about stuff like that. I guess I just wonder how many other people, that hold Apple in a similar light as I did, held/hold the same opinion for the same reasons. I can't help but notice how particularly strong people's opinion of Apple is... more so than most any other electronics company. It's bizarre, but I can certainly relate to it... even though I no longer hold that opinion.

I don't buy the corrupt/money hungry/etc excuse that a lot of people use though. Apple has only become successful in recent years (which is pretty remarkable in itself IMO) and the hatred of Apple from PC users is much much older/deeper than that. Steve Jobs wasn't always the polarizing/controversial figure that he is today either (unless you worked for him) So, with all that said, why do you hate Apple as much as you do?
 
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Magnus

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I've used macs at school and liked them, However, I would never buy one for home use because they're just too expensive. Any added value of software or OS is completely lost due to obscene costs.
 

Terpfen

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Sorry, but no thread that asks why someone feels an emotion ("why do you hate?") as opposed to asking for an intellectual position ("why do you dislike?") will ever be an intelligent discussion by definition.
 

AQ_OC

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I like apple more and more each day. Seriously, the more work I have to get done, the more apple products appeal to me. I'll never be an only apple guy, but I'm getting closer every day.
 

dr.stevil

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Sorry, but no thread that asks why someone feels an emotion ("why do you hate?") as opposed to asking for an intellectual position ("why do you dislike?") will ever be an intelligent discussion by definition.

perhaps you're right, I figured the more 'severe' moderating of the apple forum would keep people in line. Besides, it's not like sugar coating the words is going to change anyones opinion :D. I was trying to set the example by giving a detailed reasoning. I'm not really looking to start a discussion as much as I am just genuinely curious why people dislike Apple as much as they do and if their story is similar to mine.

When I ask my friends, who I probably turned off to Apple forever, why they dislike apple as much as they do, they generally can't come up with a reason. They just do (and fair enough, I'm not fond of the color teal lol)
 

blackhand1001

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I Dislike them because they are an anti-competitive force in the market that convinces people they invented things they did not. All the lawsuits they are filing are completely out of hand. They apply for patents for things they didn't invent and take advantage of how poor the screening process for accepting patents is. Most of these patents end up getting thrown out when they are reviewed in court. They also cut support for my not even 4 year old macbook in the newest OS. Windows 7/8 runs on old pentium 4's from 2001 (even pentium 3's if your crazy). I have a 2003 dell (prescott 3.2) that I got free that it runs great on. Mountain Lion won't even run on a 2008 white/black macbook. Theres no reason for this, the hardware is more than capable of running the OS. They simply want people to spend another 1300 on a new machine. They also spit on their suppliers with threats. They start patenting things related to touchscreens and they don't even make those touchscreens. Someone else does. By limiting other companies from using features of touchscreens they are hurting their supplier. If Steve Jobs could have taken his money with him to the grave, he would have. (It was pretty much his only friend) Not even his co-founder of Apple Wozniak was good friends with him.
 

BigJayDogg3

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I'll likely never buy a Mac, but I wouldn't mind building a Hackintosh to get the OSX experience for a much more reasonable price.

Price is the main factor. Compared to PCs, Macs have been, spec for spec, more expensive than PCs for a long, long time.
 

Shalafi

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I don't dislike Apple, I use Apple products and enjoy my iPad. I actually use it as an ebook reader, and enjoy it for that purpose.

I don't get why people hate a company like Apple, cause no company is perfect, but it seems pretty extreme to hate a company. Hate is such a strong word, I can understand disliking a company, as in you may not like their products or their business practices, their logo, their design choices, or Steve Job's balding head, whatever, but hate? Hate is a much stronger emotion than simply disliking something.

If you actively HATE a company like Apple, then there's something wrong with you. Save your hate for something else that actually matters in this world and life.
 

Formula.350

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I Dislike them because they are an anti-competitive force in the market that convinces people they invented things they did not. All the lawsuits they are filing are completely out of hand. They apply for patents for things they didn't invent and take advantage of how poor the screening process for accepting patents is. Most of these patents end up getting thrown out when they are reviewed in court. They also cut support for my not even 4 year old macbook in the newest OS. Windows 7/8 runs on old pentium 4's from 2001 (even pentium 3's if your crazy). I have a 2003 dell (prescott 3.2) that I got free that it runs great on. Mountain Lion won't even run on a 2008 white/black macbook. Theres no reason for this, the hardware is more than capable of running the OS. They simply want people to spend another 1300 on a new machine. They also spit on their suppliers with threats. They start patenting things related to touchscreens and they don't even make those touchscreens. Someone else does. By limiting other companies from using features of touchscreens they are hurting their supplier. If Steve Jobs could have taken his money with him to the grave, he would have. (It was pretty much his only friend) Not even his co-founder of Apple Wozniak was good friends with him.

Yea that pretty much sums it up for me. Console players can be a little snobby on occasion, but Apple users are always snobby, plus elitist! For so long it was "We've got superior hardware", nothing I ever saw proven, and oh look... They run PC hardware now ;) Now word is they want to go ARM :confused: Not sure how their customers who actually think they are good, and use them for audio mixing or photo processing, are going to continue doing that if they do drop using the hardware capable of it.

Drop the high-horse attitude, you are the same people with the same hardware. You don't have as much software and upgrade support though unless you go with Boot Camp and install... *gasp* WINDOWS :eek: lol

Drop the insane price tag! $800 more for an OS, not worth it! Same with iPods, iPhones or iPads when there are plenty of equal/better alternatives for 1/2 that.

DON'T BE SO DAMN SUE-HAPPY! Don't like competition? Offer a better product! Accept that Phones look like Phones, TVs look like TVs and Laptops like Laptops ;)

etc etc etc.

Don't mean to come across a tad harsh if I had, just been dealing with the whole "We are superior" thing for many years (since 1995) when there are never any results backing it up :\

BTW: I have used Macs many many times, as I had a Machead friend, who finally saw the light and never went back ;) I love Maelstrom and Escape Velocity, two games that didn't come to PC for a LONG LONG time, especially Maelstrom (woohoo!!)
 

Grazehell

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I use an Apple laptop and a Windows 7 workstation.
I like both but I just love the way Win7 handles windows. I hated the lack of full screen button on the Mac that full screen feature in Lion sucks till, at least they implement a cut and paste(move option again) and Finder is a complete joke compared to Windows Explorer.
I hate how controlled and closed off my mac feels where as with my PC I feel freer, though this is just an illusion since Microsoft is moving in the same lack of user control, direction with Vista and Win7. I have to go through hoops to install a driver that were written by a non corporate entity on Vista and Win7
 
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I'm neutral with the argument. I use both platforms equally for freelancing and games. I do enjoy pc gaming yet I like to stay some what connected to the design world with my mac. Different people I work with have one or the other so it helps to know both in my opinion. I'll be a happy camper with both platforms for a few more years, until the inevitable happens when Microsoft buys out Adobe...
 

Nicterys

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Drop the insane price tag! $800 more for an OS, not worth it! Same with iPods, iPhones or iPads when there are plenty of equal/better alternatives for 1/2 that.
Apple will drop the price tag once Mercedes-Benz, Lexus, BMW, Tag Heuer, Ralph Lauren, Nike, Mont Blanc, Movado, Burberry, etc do the same with the plenty of equal/better alternatives for a fraction of the "insane" prices that their products cost.
 

maverick786us

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I like Apple products, despite the fact its products are overpriced. What I dislike about the Apple is some of its policies.

Example: Apple launched 4 different versions of iPad 2. They purposely didn't implement Memory card slots so that they can push the user into buying the 64GB version of iPad 2. This is something I dislike about Apple policy makers
 

lamboman

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Yea that pretty much sums it up for me. Console players can be a little snobby on occasion, but Apple users are always snobby, plus elitist! For so long it was "We've got superior hardware", nothing I ever saw proven, and oh look... They run PC hardware now ;) Now word is they want to go ARM :confused: Not sure how their customers who actually think they are good, and use them for audio mixing or photo processing, are going to continue doing that if they do drop using the hardware capable of it.

Drop the high-horse attitude, you are the same people with the same hardware. You don't have as much software and upgrade support though unless you go with Boot Camp and install... *gasp* WINDOWS :eek: lol

Drop the insane price tag! $800 more for an OS, not worth it! Same with iPods, iPhones or iPads when there are plenty of equal/better alternatives for 1/2 that.

DON'T BE SO DAMN SUE-HAPPY! Don't like competition? Offer a better product! Accept that Phones look like Phones, TVs look like TVs and Laptops like Laptops ;)

etc etc etc.

Don't mean to come across a tad harsh if I had, just been dealing with the whole "We are superior" thing for many years (since 1995) when there are never any results backing it up :\

BTW: I have used Macs many many times, as I had a Machead friend, who finally saw the light and never went back ;) I love Maelstrom and Escape Velocity, two games that didn't come to PC for a LONG LONG time, especially Maelstrom (woohoo!!)

Just as an opposing perspective, I have seen more people who are high-horse and anti-Mac than the other way round, all of which cannot prove that their Windows systems are "superior", as such.

I personally keep it simple...you prefer what you prefer, and you buy what you can afford. The Mac vs PC argument is one that will never die, and it's always for the same, boring, tired reasons...!
 

1000

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I can add some value to this discussion. I was a PC owner for 20 years. A few years ago, I kinda stopped playing PC games and since the Macs were now intel based, making them far more useful I decided to go for an iMac 27" as my main computer. At first I dual booted Windows XP and OSX, eventually dropping Windows altogether. I stayed a Mac only user for 4 years solid. I now use both, having been lured back in via MMO gaming and the need for a PC to supplement the type of work I do.

WHat I've learned to hate about Apple is it's staunch arrogance in not making certain products useful and user friendly, rather, opting to sticking with certain things just because some bell-end in the company thinks it's cool. Example - the Magic Mouse. Totally fucking useless peripheral... 90% of the population thinks so, yet its remained totally useless for 7 years or so. On the same subject, the OSX mouse acceleration curve.. completly impractical and really hard to win a PC fan after years of WindowsXP/7. Wireless keyboards that are VASTLY inferior to the company's own wired model.

Lack of a decent GPU to drive big resolutions. They fit a lovely 27" display and yet leave it to a 4850 GPU with 512mb of VRAM to run... like strapping a VW engine to a Ferarri.

Failure to adopt technologies because they have their own very expensive ones. Case in point, USB3.. it's been on the market for 3 years, walk into a store and there are 50 different brands of external HDD supporting it... Apple opt to go for Thunderbolt which is, by my prediction a stillborn technology. Not only that, but they drop a bunch of TB ports on the back of the iMac but yet I can't boot from a thunderbolt device such as an SSD drive in a TB enclosure - one of the most useful things I could hope to do with it.. crippled.

Another example is Bluray.. great tech but Apple would rather you stream so no Bluray drive dispite having beautiful displays to compliment it.

Apple TV - useless without the capability to play AVI, MKV etc. I hacked all mine...they play everything and stream my AVI collection. Why the hell should I have to convert all my AVI stuff to some stupid codec just because Apple thinks theirs is cool?

Failure to offer any form of practial upgrade path. Replacing a HDD in an iMac ? Not for the faint hearted and now they use priopritary cables making it impossible. It would be easy for such engineering genuis to enable the rear of the iMac to be opened, like a latch of similar to swap out a HDD, or a port in the bottom of the display. No, you need suction cups to get into the computer via the most fragile part of the whole unit.. the LCD display... and don't get dust in it if you take it off because after 2 weeks a piece of dust or fingerprint can kill the LCD.

Their gear is too expensive. They will NEVER lure any form of enthusiast over to Apple with gear that costs 100% more than a PC equivilent. I put together an i7 2600k, 16GB, GTX580, SSD and a 120hz 27" LCD for around $600 less than Apple's entry level "high performance' iMac 27". And I can plug a USB 3 drive into it !!!!!!!!!!! And watch Blurays on it. And just about anything else.

Don't get me wrong, this is not an "anti apple" rant. I use an iMac every day, but after using both Apple products and PC products for a LONG time, the whole "it just works" concept simply does not wash.

1000
 

!@#$%^&*()

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Just as an opposing perspective, I have seen more people who are high-horse and anti-Mac than the other way round, all of which cannot prove that their Windows systems are "superior", as such.

I personally keep it simple...you prefer what you prefer, and you buy what you can afford. The Mac vs PC argument is one that will never die, and it's always for the same, boring, tired reasons...!

+1

I've never encountered an elitist Apple person. Not once.

If anything, it's been the other way around -- I run into diehard Android or diehard pc people who are ultra anti-Apple. They usually go on about how terrible Apple is and how superior their stuff is.

Then they complain about how elitist Apple people are.

Yea, ok.
 

EPOQ

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I worked at the store for a few months inbetween IT jobs. 'Nuff said.
 

RW2112

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My biggest complaint is their policy of "locking" down their hardware and dictating how users are supposed to use their hardware. No flash on the iPhone and iPad, only their "approved" apps, no upgradability of memory on the iPad, etc...

I do own an apple TV, iPhone and iPad 2. And I have jailbroken each of them so I can install apps to address their shortcomings in my opinion. However I will not ever purchase one of their computers due to their high cost and lack of being able to tweak / upgrade their components. I am a hardware junkie and enjoy working on my boxes too much. :D
 

jordan12

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I can say that I am in awe of the Apple hardware. The Ipad, laptops, and monitors. Especially the monitors.

And I love the Ipads. But I wont get one because I don't want to install Itunes on anything of mine.

I want to plug it into my machine, transfer files and move on. No Itunes crap..

They fix that, and I will have an Ipad
 

shoota

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I can say that I am in awe of the Apple hardware. The Ipad, laptops, and monitors. Especially the monitors.

And I love the Ipads. But I wont get one because I don't want to install Itunes on anything of mine.

I want to plug it into my machine, transfer files and move on. No Itunes crap..

They fix that, and I will have an Ipad

Whats wrong with itunes? It's much better on a mac than a pc..
 

auspexd

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Meh, I don't hate on apple or pc's as long as the consumer makes an informed choice and knows what they are buying and why. The "haters gonna hate" when it comes to rabid fanboyism. Personally, I think as you get older, the time, money and energy to care graph reverses itself. I have more money but less time and energy so I find myself not caring about what people think of me or I of them vis a vis identity as seen through the lens of the computer I happen to be using at the moment.

I rock out a thinkpad, air and droid for work and use a pc and iphone at home. As long as it works for the task at hand, I can't spare the time and energy to rage about it. My $2
 

AQ_OC

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Meh, I don't hate on apple or pc's as long as the consumer makes an informed choice and knows what they are buying and why. The "haters gonna hate" when it comes to rabid fanboyism. Personally, I think as you get older, the time, money and energy to care graph reverses itself. I have more money but less time and energy so I find myself not caring about what people think of me or I of them vis a vis identity as seen through the lens of the computer I happen to be using at the moment.

I rock out a thinkpad, air and droid for work and use a pc and iphone at home. As long as it works for the task at hand, I can't spare the time and energy to rage about it. My $2

+1. The fact of the matter is all of this tech is good enough to get the job done...so no matter which way you go, within limits, things work. I plan to have stuff that runs Windows, stuff that runs iOS, and stuff that runs android. I have no problems switching among them.
 
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Meh, I don't hate on apple or pc's as long as the consumer makes an informed choice and knows what they are buying and why. The "haters gonna hate" when it comes to rabid fanboyism. Personally, I think as you get older, the time, money and energy to care graph reverses itself. I have more money but less time and energy so I find myself not caring about what people think of me or I of them vis a vis identity as seen through the lens of the computer I happen to be using at the moment.

I rock out a thinkpad, air and droid for work and use a pc and iphone at home. As long as it works for the task at hand, I can't spare the time and energy to rage about it. My $2

This really, as long as it works, and does what I want it to do, really.



It is my own personality that damn near requires me to point out incorrect and untruthful statements (it's the side effect of being a scientist I'm afraid, the idiotic and irrational belief in facts and evidence) that causes me to get embroiled in as many Mac/PC arguments as I get into.

As long as the individual consumer makes informed decisions, I don't care what their decision is. When they are being misled, either deliberately or accidently, that I have issues. (The repeated stated, and just-as-repeatedly-proven wrong, statements about apples "costing more" is a good example, from a raw price standpoint, they cost more then some options, and less then others, it depends on if you actually look at the full spec sheet, not just CPU/RAM/HDD. Or on the other side, that Mac's are immune to virii/etc. )

And the rabid fanboyism on both sides (though on the [H] forums it is rabidly anti-apple) cause most of this misdirection.

Mac's/iOS have advantages and disadvantages, as does Android, Windows, and Linux. Recognizing the advantages and disadvantages of each, and making an informed decision is crucial.
 

/usr/home

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1. The interface on OS X I do not like at all. When I maximize something, I like it full screen, and not just full window. After using Windows for so long, I find the UI annoying and frustrating.

2. They lock you down and want you to do things their way.

3. Shady business practices. "Magical" iPads. Yeah.... Claiming their technology is new and innovative when other companies have had it for a while. Apple likes to deny things and then once enough people bitch, they will finally admit their screw ups. (iPhone 4 antennae debacle among others)

4. Slightly overpriced for what you get. Granted, a well-built nice Thinkpad goes for almost the same price. Macs, not the Macbooks, are just a ripoff IMO.

5. iTunes, Safari, and Quicktime on Windows all blows chunks.

That said, iPhones and iPods I like. I hate using iTunes, but so be it to have an iPod. I'm seriously contemplating getting an iPhone next. I think they did right with iOS, just their desktop OS is crummy.

A few of my opinions.
 

MaxBurn

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Trackr

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I don't like them because they attract the type of retarded fans that follow them like a cult, and they actually view themselves as cult leaders, all the while they're suing everyone they can in the most greedy of ways because their fans are too stupid to care.

But they made the iPhone 4, so I guess it's okay.
 

eggrock

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I don't like them because they attract the type of retarded fans that follow them like a cult, and they actually view themselves as cult leaders, all the while they're suing everyone they can in the most greedy of ways because their fans are too stupid to care.

So you also hate Intel/AMD and nVidia/ATI? :p

I don't hate Apple but I hate how overly proprietary they can be. It nearly killed them in the '90s and it's not a great idea now, imho.

I'm thinking of things like the chips they put in earphones with volume controls, the inability out of the box to install OS X on x86 hardware and the odd (but not necessarily proprietary) connectors they use.

There are some other gripes, like converting .aac to .mp3, which was possible for awhile in iTunes but eventually phased out (and perhaps phased back in--I haven't checked for awhile.) Or moving tunes from an iPod back to your computer. Seems like once you get outside of 'The User Experience', things get messy and obtuse. However, 'The User Experience' itself can be pretty nice and I love the elegance and simplicity in their UIs.
 

Trackr

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So you also hate Intel/AMD and nVidia/ATI? :p

I don't hate Apple but I hate how overly proprietary they can be. It nearly killed them in the '90s and it's not a great idea now, imho.

I'm thinking of things like the chips they put in earphones with volume controls, the inability out of the box to install OS X on x86 hardware and the odd (but not necessarily proprietary) connectors they use.

There are some other gripes, like converting .aac to .mp3, which was possible for awhile in iTunes but eventually phased out (and perhaps phased back in--I haven't checked for awhile.) Or moving tunes from an iPod back to your computer. Seems like once you get outside of 'The User Experience', things get messy and obtuse. However, 'The User Experience' itself can be pretty nice and I love the elegance and simplicity in their UIs.

I don't see how it is valid to compare hardware enthusiasts to iDiots.

But yes, I agree - their user interface (except on Mac OX) is fantastic. Couldn't use an Android if I tried.
 

UnknownSouljer

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Well I'll put in my 2 cents as a counterpoint to your views. I'll state up front that I'm not really trying to change your mind but really just vocalize a few things from the other side of the fence.

1. The interface on OS X I do not like at all. When I maximize something, I like it full screen, and not just full window. After using Windows for so long, I find the UI annoying and frustrating.

This is valid. But really the behavior is preference and design. It's (of course) perfectly okay to not like the way something is programmed interface wise. But wanting that behavior could just be because you've used it that way for so long and just don't want/like any form of change. This isn't just true of you, we're all that way from one degree to another.

2. They lock you down and want you to do things their way.

I'm not quite sure what you mean here. I've heard this argument come up a lot of different times, but if we examine the alternatives there isn't one. OSX allows the running of any application, just the same as Windows. iOS does have a process for acceptance into their store, but if anything that has made the quality of applications go up, and time to find something worthwhile go down. The Android store has suffered because the only real way to find the best programs is word of mouth (like websites, or friends, etc.) or endless searching, and their method (between also having inconsistent hardware and Android versions) has fractured their market. If you believe that opening the flood gates on everything is the best/only way to do things rather than having structure, then I suppose that is something we will just fundamentally disagree on. However to say that the Apple model is flawed in-and-of-itself is simply not true.

3. Shady business practices. "Magical" iPads. Yeah.... Claiming their technology is new and innovative when other companies have had it for a while. Apple likes to deny things and then once enough people bitch, they will finally admit their screw ups. (iPhone 4 antennae debacle among others)

This is just called "selling." EVERY fortune 500 business does this. I dare you to name an organization does not. How many covers ups have you seen from: Facebook, Intel, ATi, nVidia, Toyota, Honda, Ford, Chevy, Google, etc. I can name a list as long as my arm for everyone of those companies that have claimed innovation, denied fault, and passed the buck. Targeting Apple over any other company for doing that seems silly to me. You shouldn't hate them any more (or I suppose any less) than any other company. The truth is: they all make "sellers claims, they all make mistakes, and they all try to mitigate those mistakes. Having an irrational dislike of them doesn't help.

4. Slightly overpriced for what you get. Granted, a well-built nice Thinkpad goes for almost the same price. Macs, not the Macbooks, are just a ripoff IMO.

Well, there are tons of discussions on this in this very forum. Suffice it to say, you may not agree with their pricing, but it IS in fact competitive. Their iMac line is and has been unbeatable. A 27" IPS monitor with a quad core i5, decent mid-range video card, ram, and HDD, in the small foot print that it provides for $2k is unbeatable. Sony and HP have tried and they can't do it for less. Additionally there are a lot of satisfaction based things that come with Mac that you simply don't get with PC's. In marketing terms, they call them "intangibles."

5. iTunes, Safari, and Quicktime on Windows all blows chunks.

Well if you don't like any of them, you have the choice to use none of them. Apple has been developing iOS so that it does not require a computer to start them up (as in register etc.), update them, put apps on them, sync them, or get media on them. As a result of that, there is no reason to have to use iTunes. The other two, I would have to ask why you use anyway? Safari is a browser, I do use it, but I use Firefox primarily. Quicktime doesn't even need to be installed anymore, people use VLC. Okay so I understand you don't like some of their software, fair enough, but there are plenty of excellent alternatives even in OSX for all of them.

That said, iPhones and iPods I like. I hate using iTunes, but so be it to have an iPod. I'm seriously contemplating getting an iPhone next. I think they did right with iOS, just their desktop OS is crummy.

iOS is excellent, and I'm glad you like that OS. OSX is simply different than Windows. If you have an appreciation for Unix or Linux, I think you might like OSX more. It has all of the stability and structure of Unix with a nice looking GUI on top of it. I suppose the aesthetics aren't for everyone, but I really believe the mechanics of it all (if you will) are quite excellent. I wouldn't say you have to believe that OSX comes out with 500 truly new additions per update or whatever, but it is clear that with every iteration they are striving to hone the OS to greater heights of usability. Their team clearly does not make decisions arbitrarily, nor do they take them lightly.

I was primarily a Windows user for over a decade, and after about 6 months of use in OSX I was able to complete all of the same tasks in OSX faster than in Windows. This is due to things like hotkeys and Quicksilver as well as things that the interface has like Spaces & Exposé (which are now combined into Mission Control) and the Dashboard. These are all things Windows doesn't have although Windows 7 made changes to become more Mac like. It will be interesting to see what 8 is like since they are now trying to head their own direction rather than being followers, which is something I appreciate.

A few of my opinions.

Thanks for them.
 

Cheetoz

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Mar 3, 2003
Messages
1,972
funny, I can totally see this thread in ubuntu forums, except replace OSX with Windows and Windows with Linux and the comments are about the same.
 

naninani

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 14, 2010
Messages
350
I don't hate them, I just don't need them.
If anything, I can respect how the iOS ecology has, in a way, revolutionized the perception of user interaction.
On the flip side, I'm a control freak and I cannot rationalize spending more to sacrifice control over my general computing.
 

TeeJayHoward

Limpness Supreme
Joined
Feb 8, 2005
Messages
11,245
Why do folks hate Apple? They seem to think that they're overpriced pieces of crap for elitist hipsters.

Overpriced. Well, Dell doesn't have a decent laptop line these days. Their Vostros are something I wouldn't wish on my enemies, so let's go with their entry-level business class laptops, the Latitude. They're the closest I could find for competition with Apple's MacBook Pro line.
Code:
                Dell E6320                  Apple  MBP 13"              Winner
Processor:      [b]i5 2.5Ghz[/b]                   i5 2.4Ghz                 Dell
RAM:            2x2GB DDR3 1333             2x2GB DDR3 1333           Tied
HDD:            250GB 5400RPM               [b]500GB 5400RPM[/b]             Apple
Case:           Aluminum/Magnesium          Aluminum/Magnesium        Tied
Display:        [b]1366x768, 13.3", 117PPI[/b]     1280x800, 13.3", 113.4PPI Dell
Graphics:       Intel HD 3000               Intel HD 3000             Tied
Batt. Life:     6 hours (Upgraded battery)  [b]8 hours[/b]                   Apple
Weight:         4.6lbs (60WH battery)       [b]4.5lbs[/b]                    Apple 
Cost:           $1,353 ($1,808)             [b]$1,199[/b]                    Apple

As you can see, the cost is comparable, maybe even favoring the Apple. The Dell does include broadband support - I was unable to locate a different laptop with similar specs and build quality without it. The Dell is always "on sale" for about $1350, and you can get the Apple for $999-$1099 if you're a student.

Elitist. Not all Apple users are fanboys. My entire household and that of my immediate family all use iPhones. I considered a droid setup when I switched from a 1st gen iPhone to a 4S, but the UI and my existing purchases convinced me to stick with Apple. I have a PC at home, and use a Mac for school. My roomie was a die-hard "Apple sucks!" guy until he used my mac laptop after his Toshiba died. He bought the same one I have a few days later. He's got a desktop PC as well, and will probably continue to build computers instead of buying a new Mac. Neither of us think we're "better" than anyone else because we have the "superior" machine.

Crap. I've experienced no issues on my mac that I would not have experienced on a similar PC laptop. My iPhone may not be built as well as a Nokia from the 90s, but I've dropped it while running and it held up just fine. My MBP's been thrown onto a desk a time or two, and it still functions just fine. Everything boots quickly, crashes seldom, and generally works the way it should. In my opinion, the MBP case is far, FAR more solid than any other non-ruggedized laptop I've used in the past. My little brother's got a Dell who's keyboard is falling apart. The spacebar is missing entirely. I've got thousands of hours on my Macs without a single hardware issue, which I can't say of a certain ASUS laptop I used to own. I'd go as far as to say that Apple's product quality is slightly above the average I've seen.

Hipsters. Some are, some aren't. Can't comment beyond that.


I'm a control freak and I cannot rationalize spending more to sacrifice control over my general computing.
OS X just doesn't have a pretty GUI for everything like Windows does. There's nothing a Windows box can do (OS-wise) that a Mac can't.


1. The interface on OS X I do not like at all. When I maximize something, I like it full screen, and not just full window. After using Windows for so long, I find the UI annoying and frustrating.
Personal preference. If you count the pixels, you'll see that the actual "usable screen size" is comparable between the two, perhaps even favoring the OS X side.

2. They lock you down and want you to do things their way.
True of their phones, not of their computers.

3. Shady business practices. "Magical" iPads. Yeah.... Claiming their technology is new and innovative when other companies have had it for a while. Apple likes to deny things and then once enough people bitch, they will finally admit their screw ups. (iPhone 4 antennae debacle among others)
This is an issue that EVERY company has. DFI? OCZ? ASUS? Anyone?

4. Slightly overpriced for what you get. Granted, a well-built nice Thinkpad goes for almost the same price. Macs, not the Macbooks, are just a ripoff IMO.
iMacs are comparable. Nobody with half a brain buys the Mac Pros.

5. iTunes, Safari, and Quicktime on Windows all blows chunks.
Windows Media Player, Internet Explorer, and Windows Media Player all blow chunks, too. You don't have to use them.

That said, iPhones and iPods I like. I hate using iTunes, but so be it to have an iPod. I'm seriously contemplating getting an iPhone next. I think they did right with iOS, just their desktop OS is crummy.
Personal opinion, once again. Personally, I love OS X. I also love iOS. I'm NOT loving Windows 8's "Metro" interface, but I AM loving the new Powershell. It ALMOST brings command-line utility up to what OS X has had since it's release.
 
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RW2112

Gawd
Joined
May 17, 2002
Messages
728
I can say that I am in awe of the Apple hardware. The Ipad, laptops, and monitors. Especially the monitors.

And I love the Ipads. But I wont get one because I don't want to install Itunes on anything of mine.

I want to plug it into my machine, transfer files and move on. No Itunes crap..

They fix that, and I will have an Ipad


ImTOO ipad to pc transfer. Check it out... :D
 

eggrock

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Dec 1, 2003
Messages
4,102
I don't see how it is valid to compare hardware enthusiasts to iDiots.

*shrug* Fanboys are fanboys, and the rhetoric around here seems to scale up in the CPU and GPU subforums. Hell, the Displays subforum has a warning about flaming. :eek:

There are some things about OS X I don't like so far, but for now I'm attributing that to being unfamiliar with the OS, with some user error thrown in.

Case in point - I ran Migration Asst. to pull over some data, and it moved the data all right--to a new user account that I couldn't access! Hopefully that's user error because it seems kind of counterintuitive.

I wound up enabling root and moving things using the terminal, which was nice because I was able to set my environment up there. :cool: <-we need an icon for "I just got wood" :D
 

investinwaffles

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 26, 2010
Messages
495
I hate apple because:

1. Itunes FUCKING sucks. Absolutely horrible program that I dont want to be chained to. Slow, clunky, and it used to dump my 60+gb library every other week. Also I fucking hate iTunes.

2. So locked down, everything is more "simple" for the masses, which makes it INFINITELY more complex for someone even halfway technologically competent. It takes me 10 times longer to do the most simple things because they are buried within menu after menu.

3. They are so homogenous, and everyone has apple products. They all (EVERYTHING THEY MAKE) looks the fucking same and I hate that. Samsung's shit looks the same but it looks GOOD for some reason (maybe I'm biased though).

4. They charge out the ass because the retarded masses still lap it up and I absolutely disagree with that, though their prices have been less insane in recent times.

5. They seemingly withhold technology to increase future profits. This is one of the most hard and fast apple traits IMO and the thing I hate most about Apple though this also seems to be a reversing trend (probably after nutjobs passed away)

6. Fucking adapters. So many fucking adapters for the most simple things. Who the FUCK actually uses micro-mini-vgadisplayportdvi or whatever the fuck they think in their deluded minds. Oh wait, all they think about is profits - I forgot.

They cater to the masses, who are mostly ignorant. I am not the masses, nor am I ignorant of technology so I guess thats where most of my gripes originate.
 
Last edited:

blackhand1001

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 13, 2009
Messages
382
Why do folks hate Apple? They seem to think that they're overpriced pieces of crap for elitist hipsters.

Overpriced. Well, Dell doesn't have a decent laptop line these days. Their Vostros are something I wouldn't wish on my enemies, so let's go with their entry-level business class laptops, the Latitude. They're the closest I could find for competition with Apple's MacBook Pro line.
Code:
                Dell E6320                  Apple  MBP 13"              Winner
Processor:      [b]i5 2.5Ghz[/b]                   i5 2.4Ghz                 Dell
RAM:            2x2GB DDR3 1333             2x2GB DDR3 1333           Tied
HDD:            250GB 5400RPM               [b]500GB 5400RPM[/b]             Apple
Case:           Plastic                     [b]Aluminum/Magnesium[/b]        Apple
Display:        [b]1366x768, 13.3", 117PPI[/b]     1280x800, 13.3", 113.4PPI Dell
Graphics:       Intel HD 3000               Intel HD 3000             Tied
Batt. Life:     6 hours (Upgraded battery)  [b]8 hours[/b]                   Apple
Weight:         4.6lbs (60WH battery)       [b]4.5lbs[/b]                    Apple 
Cost:           $1,353 ($1,808)             [b]$1,199[/b]                    Apple

As you can see, the cost is comparable, maybe even favoring the Apple. The Dell does include broadband support - I was unable to locate a different laptop with similar specs and build quality without it. The Dell is always "on sale" for about $1350, and you can get the Apple for $999-$1099 if you're a student.

Elitist. Not all Apple users are fanboys. My entire household and that of my immediate family all use iPhones. I considered a droid setup when I switched from a 1st gen iPhone to a 4S, but the UI and my existing purchases convinced me to stick with Apple. I have a PC at home, and use a Mac for school. My roomie was a die-hard "Apple sucks!" guy until he used my mac laptop after his Toshiba died. He bought the same one I have a few days later. He's got a desktop PC as well, and will probably continue to build computers instead of buying a new Mac. Neither of us think we're "better" than anyone else because we have the "superior" machine.

Crap. I've experienced no issues on my mac that I would not have experienced on a similar PC laptop. My iPhone may not be built as well as a Nokia from the 90s, but I've dropped it while running and it held up just fine. My MBP's been thrown onto a desk a time or two, and it still functions just fine. Everything boots quickly, crashes seldom, and generally works the way it should. In my opinion, the MBP case is far, FAR more solid than any other non-ruggedized laptop I've used in the past. My little brother's got a Dell who's keyboard is falling apart. The spacebar is missing entirely. I've got thousands of hours on my Macs without a single hardware issue, which I can't say of a certain ASUS laptop I used to own. I'd go as far as to say that Apple's product quality is slightly above the average I've seen.

Hipsters. Some are, some aren't. Can't comment beyond that.



OS X just doesn't have a pretty GUI for everything like Windows does. There's nothing a Windows box can do (OS-wise) that a Mac can't.


Personal preference. If you count the pixels, you'll see that the actual "usable screen size" is comparable between the two, perhaps even favoring the OS X side.

True of their phones, not of their computers.

This is an issue that EVERY company has. DFI? OCZ? ASUS? Anyone?

iMacs are comparable. Nobody with half a brain buys the Mac Pros.


Windows Media Player, Internet Explorer, and Windows Media Player all blow chunks, too. You don't have to use them.


Personal opinion, once again. Personally, I love OS X. I also love iOS. I'm NOT loving Windows 8's "Metro" interface, but I AM loving the new Powershell. It ALMOST brings command-line utility up to what OS X has had since it's release.

That dell your compairing the macbook pro 13 to is an ultraportable. Its not a fair comparison at all. It weighs a full pound less than the macbook. (3.5 vs 4.5) The e6420 is the model thats most similar to the 13 inch macbook pro. (same weight and general size)

For $939 you can get a Intel® Core&#8482; i5-2430M 2.4ghz, win 7 pro, 4gb of ddr3 1333mhz, 500gb 7200rpm, intel hd 3000, 3 year on site warranty (something apple doesn't even offer) apple gives your a one year limited warranty where you have to ship it out or go to an apple store. And the build quality on latitudes is very good (they feel very solid), as far as durability is a step above the aluminum encasing on the macbook.

TO match the dell on the macbook pro you'd have to add in 3 year apple care, and get a 7200rpm drive.

delllatitude.png


Its pretty clear you went to dells website looking for a specific model that would cost more than Apples. You pick a machine that isn't the same class. And If you knew how dell, hp, lenovo, sony, and others work they are always on sale. The retail value thing is just there to make you think theres a good deal.

A 14.0 inch 16x9 is roughly the same size as a 16x10 13.3 inch, just a little wider.
Screen size
12.21x6.86 -latitude
11.28x7.05 -macbook
The base macbook pro with the 3 year apple care costs $1,448.00. There is no option to add a 7200rpm on the 13 inch model. There's also no fingerprint reader, onsite service. No hdmi, vga, esata, only 2 usb vs 4, no pc card slot, or docking connector. The latitude is also not made of plastic. Its a steel casing, magnesium alloy frame, with an aluminum display back. The website confirms this as do my own personal experience holding one of these machines does. Its clearly not plastic.
 
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auspexd

Gawd
Joined
Jan 23, 2002
Messages
806
I love that apple is one of the only companies that inspire palatable hatred more for how their fans act and not the quality of their merchandise. It would be an interesting experiment if you gave a diehard apple hater the option of being given a fully loaded to the gills top of the line macbook pro with the caveat that they had to use it as their primary laptop and for not less than 50% of their total computing time for let's say six months. You could run similar test with linux and windows.
 
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