Why do you buy Apple products?

For their notebooks it comes down to size/weight to performance ratio, battery life, display quality, the keyboard, and the multitouch trackpad. Being able to run both OS X and Windows is a plus, ditto customer service should something go wrong. The OS X UI is also very well tuned to work on laptops and displays of a limited size, between things like window layouts and workspace management features like Expose and Spaces (which can also be triggered via multitouch gestures).

The only other notebook I'd consider getting is a Lenovo, those also have good keyboards and build quality. Most notebooks are garbage, but they are also priced accordingly.

I started using OS X in 2002 when OS 10.2 came out, and I used it only as a Final Cut Pro machine for cutting my demo reels. I became a huge fan when OS 10.4 came out and was head and shoulders better than Windows XP. Like, it wasn't even close, there was this tremendous gap in operating system quality going for a few years. Vista came out and addressed most of the issues XP had, even though it took a couple months for the issues to get shaken out of it, and things like Windows Search were not nearly as good as Spotlight. By the time SP1 came out it was fine. Windows 7 (aka - Vista SP3) is really good and I'm happy jumping back and forth between them both. The only thing that really needs fixing IMHO is streamlining the preferences tabs, submenus, and the control panel. The big difference I'd say is that OS X is fantastic right out of the box, whereas with Windows I need to run Ninite and customize the crap out of things before I'm happy with it. No big deal, I was just reminded of that when I did a Windows 7 install on a new machine last month.

Anyway, my main work machine is an iMac, and it also doubles as a monitor for my gaming PC. Given that those 27" 2560x1440 IPS displays start at $1000 by themselves, I'm pretty happy with the deal. If you don't want to spend on a Mac and can put together a good PC by yourself, by all means. If you can afford a Mac and the advantages make sense to you, by all means. Of the non-100% Mac people I know, I know quite a few who have PC desktops and Mac laptops and it works out well for them.

Like everything else, look at the pros and cons, just don't assume that the pros are the result of RDF. Believe it or not, there are many well informed and technical users (far more technical than I am, especially web devs and *nix nerds) who actually use OS X for legit reasons.
 
I really want to know where the OMG SO MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE is coming from when you compare apples to apples. Everyone parrots it but no one gives examples.
It's not true anymore.
 
Anyway, singing the praises of a touchpad because of gestures? I can program a PC touchpad with any gestures I like. But, even the best touchpad is no match for a mouse.

I only bring out a mouse on my laptop if I'm gaming with it. Otherwise you want a good trackpad if you're just taking it out. Do people really want to set up every single time they pull out a notebook? How about if I'm using it on a plane? Navigating windows and workspaces and such is actually very fast with trackpad gestures, in some ways more intuitive than programming those same functions to a multibutton mouse. It is why I got a Magic Trackpad as an input option to go along with my mouse on my desktop, works great.
 
I've never owned an apple computer (outside of an old and tired, used, G5 desktop... that I sold to friend soon after buying it), but if I ever purchased a laptop, it would probably be an apple. I'll explain below.

I used to be the anti-apple, PC or nothing, guy... I LOATHED apple. I went to school for graphic design and was forced to use one for a few of my classes... I always felt like it was fighting me every step of the way. I think that had more to do with my unfamiliarity with the OS and it's functions than the system itself (expect for that frustrating pinwheel of death... that wasn't my doing). At that point, I'd been using microsoft opperating systems my entire life.

Anyway, in 2007 when apple launched the iphone, I felt the way that many of the android and PC guys do today. What was the point of it? Who would be stupid enough to buy an apple phone? They're all sheep. You're getting scammed out of your money. (rinse and repeat). I was VERY closed minded.

A good friend of mine ended up buying one (he'd been using apples for quite a while at that point and I would let him know it any chance I got :D) and about a week later, at our weekly poker game, I finally got my hands on it and was blown away by it. I had never used a phone that had that large of a screen, was able to get access to the full internet and the countless other features that were a first (or the first time someone got the feature 'right' atleast) for a cellphone.

A week later, I decided to ditch my current phone at the time and went to AT&T to sign up for a new iphone. Once jailbreaking hit the scene, I started learning (by choice and by necessity) more about the file system, OS's and apples software in general. Since I couldn't stand to use itunes on my windows PC, I dual booted OSx86 so I could run iTunes inside of OSX (and sync my phone that way). After using it for a while (and many many frustrating hours re-learning how to do things that we're second nature in Windows/DOS) I started to understand why some people liked the interface and the company in general. Some of the choices that the designers and engineers felt very well thought out and intuitive. It was a lot more simplified... but in a good way. I didn't feel like I was needlessly jumping through hoops to do basic stuff (something that windows 7 really improved upon).

It's now 2011... I've been using iOS (and OSx to some extent) for close to 4 years. I would never buy a mac desktop machine as I enjoy putting computers together myself, but I'm also a LOT more open minded than I used to be. Apple electronics are honestly some of the best built gadgets that's I've ever owned or used. The fit & finish, build quality and materials really is second to none and that is the reason why I would buy apple over another computer manufacturer (dell, hp, emachines, etc)... the price difference is worth what you're getting out of it IMO.

What an open-minded post, how rare on a hardware forum of any leaning.

IMHO they all have their pluses and minuses, and the pluses are enough where I'm happy buying all of them. Same reason I bought all three consoles instead of just one (even though I've hardly touched them in the last six months...)
 
I really want to know where the OMG SO MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE is coming from when you compare apples to apples. Everyone parrots it but no one gives examples.
It's not true anymore.

Looking at the IPads I can see where some are getting the omg price difference.
 
just a heads up for you, you wont be able to use accelerated hardware under a virtual machine of macOS. If you want to get the most out of it, I highly suggest using an old HDD and booting the OS nativly with an EFI emulator

Thanks for the heads up, I have a spare drive sitting around, Ill give it a go on that one.
 
Another reason is speed and stability. Without a doubt there are faster graphics chips, sure, and I would never claim that Mac's were good for gaming (though Valve is doing a great job with optimization). But in pure raw speed and stability, you can't beat OS X. I work as a tech assistant in a premier video production company in the heart of NYC. We have an entire room of about 15 Mac Pro's connected over fiber optics via a TerraBlock, our server is an Xserve, etc. These machines are pumping out 2k and 4k renders nearly 24/7.

We have 4 edit rooms that used to run Avid on PCs from HP that were officially offered and supported by Avid. To say they crashed was an understatement. They were the cause of about 70-80 percent of our trouble tickets last year. Crashes, fiber channel issues, etc, it was a disaster. We finally switched them out for Mac Pro's and I can't think of one reason I'd be in the edit rooms for anything other than applying a patch (which I can do from Apple's phenomenal Remote Desktop software).

Back in 2007 I was still seeing Avid suites running Dual-G4 Powermacs. Damn things were workhorses, they just fucking worked and did their job.

Same with Mac Pros, I was on a shoot last week with the Arri Alexa, I'd say the best digital camera system out right now. The camera support cart had a Mac Pro that was simultaneously downloading footage from the cards (uncompressed files were around 30GB per 10 minutes shot), applying a Rec-709 color profile to the ARRIRAW files, and compressing/encoding footage for the offline editor. Everything went off without a hitch all day. Never had to worry about a thing and everything came out great.
 
I've been in the computer business since 1992. I once roller bladed up and down 5th avenue at midnight in Manhattan (NYC) wearing a life sized software box to promote the launch of Windows 95 for CompUSA (those were the days). I've dealt with tons of different hardware, software, operating systems, support centers etc. and to this day I'm amazed at the evolution of this business.

Discussing the benefits of Apple products vs Windows based hardware is difficult on a site like HardOCP. The majority of people that visit are computer hardware enthusiast. They build, test, benchmark and revel in the results of custom built hardware. It's a great hobby that I highly enjoy as well. We are not the audience that Apple is targeting.

The majority of the computer using population is not custom building computers and are not digging deep enough into Windows based OSes to truly take advantage of everything it has to offer.
Apple as a company leads the industry in delivering a product that meets or exceeds expectations functionally and esthetically. No other manufacturer puts the R&D in to try to deliver an all around satisfying user experience since no other manufacturer is selling you not only the hardware but an operating system that is customized to fully take advantage of said hardware. Since Apple has such a small amount of computer variation they can get the most out of their OS. Microsoft has to develop a huge library of APIs and relies on hardware manufacturers to write the appropriate drivers to fully take advantage of their Windows OS.

The Apple experience starts the second you open the box their computers ship in and continues with the introduction, registration and customer support. The only other companies that can actually afford to offer this type of service are boutique computer builders and the price of the hardware sold by these outfits matches or exceeds Apple.
The problem really comes in the fact that Apple needs to tightly control their entire ecosystem to actually make everything work exactly as planned. That closed environment is what turns a lot of hardware enthusiast away. The lack of Apple clones is also what keeps Apple hardware prices at a premium.

In ending I have to say that a pure comparison of the actually hardware found in Apple laptops and desktops versus offerings from Dell, HP etc doesn't make sense. You have to compare the entire package. Using a computer is not just about raw numbers. Its about the user experience and in that game Apple is not only innovating but beating some of the best in the industry.
 
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Looking at the IPads I can see where some are getting the omg price difference.

The Xoom costs $600 to get into, the iPad 2 costs $500 to get into.

$600 for 32GB Xoom WiFi, $600 for iPad 2 32GB.
$800 for 32GB Xoom 3G on Verizon, $729 for iPad 2 3G 64GB on Verizon.
 
Discussing the benefits of Apple products vs Windows based hardware is difficult on a site like HardOCP. The majority of people that visit are computer hardware enthusiast. They build, test, benchmark and revel in the results of custom built hardware. It's a great hobby that I highly enjoy as well. We are not the audience that Apple is targeting.

Well put.

I bought a Macbook Pro because I like using it. It feels good typing on it and I really like the trackpad. I wish I could get the same trackpad behavior when booted into Windows. Web browsing is much more enjoyable than any laptop I've tried. And I think that's exactly what Apple is targeting.

If I could have found a Windows laptop with the same features as noted above I would have chosen differently. It probably would have been cheaper. I see many laptops trying to best or copy Apple, but I didn't find anything to change my mind.

That said I would never replace my desktop with a Mac.
 
Apple as a company leads the industry in delivering a product that meets or exceeds expectations functionally and esthetically. No other manufacturer puts the R&D in to try to deliver an all around satisfying user experience since no other manufacturer is selling you not only the hardware but an operating system that is customized to fully take advantage of said hardware. Since Apple has such a small amount of computer variation they can get the most out of their OS. Microsoft has to develop a huge library of APIs and relies on hardware manufacturers to write the appropriate drivers to fully take advantage of their Windows OS.

The Apple experience starts the second you open the box their computers ship in and continues with the introduction, registration and customer support. The only other companies that can actually afford to offer this type of service are boutique computer builders and the price of the hardware sold by these outfits matches or exceeds Apple.
The problem really comes in the fact that Apple needs to tightly control their entire ecosystem to actually make everything work exactly as planned. That closed environment is what turns a lot of hardware enthusiast away. The lack of Apple clones is also what keeps Apple hardware prices at a premium.

In ending I have to say that a pure comparison of the actually hardware found in Apple laptops and desktops versus offerings from Dell, HP etc doesn't make sense. You have to compare the entire package. Using a computer is not just about raw numbers. Its about the user experience and in that game Apple is not only innovating but beating some of the best in the industry.

Very well put. This is why I build my own PCs, and if I buy a prebuilt computer it is from Apple.
 
The Xoom costs $600 to get into, the iPad 2 costs $500 to get into.

$600 for 32GB Xoom WiFi, $600 for iPad 2 32GB.
$800 for 32GB Xoom 3G on Verizon, $729 for iPad 2 3G 64GB on Verizon.

Even taking price out of the equation, the Xoom is still inferior in every way (display, processing power, chassis, applications, operating system). A true competitor in tablets won't emerge until someone leapfrogs the iPad's technology, ease of use, ecosystem, and price. It doesn't exist yet.

Maybe in 2012. The Asus Transformer is $400 and uses an IPS display, so that is step one of many.
 
Maybe in 2012. The Asus Transformer is $400 and uses an IPS display, so that is step one of many.

That looks like the coolest idea ever. I dock that dosent suck for a tablet with build in extra battery. I want one.
 
IMHO, there are certain things that Apple products do better. My phone is Android but my music player is Apple. And some things are just outright sexy, like the Mac Book Air that I got for the wife. And although I only use PCs I will be getting an iPad 2.
 
I'm surprised this thread is still active. Of course, the tone has been far less shrill than so many other Apple vs. PC themed threads... or maybe KaosDG is just getting soft. :p
 
I'm surprised this thread is still active. Of course, the tone has been far less shrill than so many other Apple vs. PC themed threads... or maybe KaosDG is just getting soft. :p

Trolls can't exist when people are stating rational and believable opinions. Oh, and also KaosDG's warning to lock threads without warning.:cool:
 
Since you've decided to quote me here, I'll elaborate.

I can use the touchpad with a single finger, 2 finger gestures, 3 finger gestures, 4 finger gestures, multi-touch on a PC doesn't exist at anything CLOSE to the same level as for a Mac right now. HP tried to implement it on the Envy, and came close to the first-gen multi-touch that apple stopped using years ago.

I have a gesture that scroll up/down, left/right, refreshes the page in Chrome, etc. I have 10 specific multi-touch gestures I use in illustrator, etc. None of this is possible on a PC at all.

I think it's possible on a PC, it just hasn't been done. This would have to come from Microsoft and Apple has a huge head start. I doubt there are any technical challenges, but MS would have to change some of the quirks inherit to Windows.

Example? In OS X you can maneuver the mouse pointer to any window with a scroll bar and use 2 fingers or the mouse wheel to scroll. As far as I can tell, this behavior is system wide. This is not the case with Windows. On Windows you sometimes have to click in the area that has the scroll bar to change focus. It's one of the most annoying behaviors that Windows has, especially after seeing how it's done in OS X. Ironically, iTunes on Windows has the correct awesome Apple behavior.

Too bad Apple doesn't replicate the 2 finger scrolling experience when booted into Windows. I would pay for a driver and settings to replicate the OS X trackpad/2 finger scrolling.
 
I'm surprised this thread is still active. Of course, the tone has been far less shrill than so many other Apple vs. PC themed threads... or maybe KaosDG is just getting soft. :p

Many bans and locked threads have been handed out. There's also all the people who have an Apple device or two and actually see that they're not all bad. You still get trolls but it isn't anything like it was even a year ago.
 
I think it's possible on a PC, it just hasn't been done. This would have to come from Microsoft and Apple has a huge head start. I doubt there are any technical challenges, but MS would have to change some of the quirks inherit to Windows.

Example? In OS X you can maneuver the mouse pointer to any window with a scroll bar and use 2 fingers or the mouse wheel to scroll. As far as I can tell, this behavior is system wide. This is not the case with Windows. On Windows you sometimes have to click in the area that has the scroll bar to change focus. It's one of the most annoying behaviors that Windows has, especially after seeing how it's done in OS X. Ironically, iTunes on Windows has the correct awesome Apple behavior.

Too bad Apple doesn't replicate the 2 finger scrolling experience when booted into Windows. I would pay for a driver and settings to replicate the OS X trackpad/2 finger scrolling.

It is also a hardware thing. Fortunately Lenovo and HP are coming on board with ginormous trackpads in some of their own notebooks, some even with the physical "single" button trackpad mechanic and using fingertips (one or two) to differentiate between single and double click. It is definitely something more notebooks should adopt, it just works so well.
 
When you compare apples to apples instead of apples to oranges like most do when they make the price comparisons then the price is usually within 10%.

I'm more than willing to pay the extra money for hardware that has been tested thoroughly and has very rare issues when compared to mass market systems / built systems, the quality and looks of the enclosure or package, and I enjoy OSX. I don't have to fiddle with shit or worry about viruses/spyware - it just works.

We don't all need or want bleeding edge hardware. Give it a try, if you don't get why people move from building systems to a Mac after a week then return it, at least you gave it a shot which is more than can be said for most people out there that trash Apple products at every opportunity.


Curious why you "assume" apple test their hardware better then other computer sellers?

with the past hardware issues apple has had, it makes me think they test less then some companies do.

In the case of a pc vs mac situation the cost is way off.

do your home work, Apple has come a long way from years past, they do still have their expensive items, but they have gotten alot better.
 
Methinks thou doth protest too much.

Anyway, singing the praises of a touchpad because of gestures? I can program a PC touchpad with any gestures I like. But, even the best touchpad is no match for a mouse.

This is again completely false. I can navigate with my trackpad twice as fast as my gaming mouse on my desktop. You seriously need to stop, you obviously have no clue what you're talking about.

I also want to add that I'm so glad to see well thought out and intelligent posts. Like many others here I used to be an Apple hater because it was the cool thing to do (even though i had never used one). I also wouldn't buy an Apple desktop. PC desktop and Apple laptop is a match made in heaven for me and I think for a lot of other people too. All in all what I'm saying is that it's nice to see well-rounded, sensible people state that there is a place for a PC and for a Mac in a given situation. Well done [H].
 
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This is again completely false. I can navigate with my trackpad twice as fast as my gaming mouse on my desktop. You seriously need to stop, you obviously have no clue what you're talking about.

So would you say that you could navigate with a track pad twice as fast with a multi-monitor display? Not saying that I've tried but I think it would be a major pain use a track pad on a 5780x1080 display. I have my G700 setup at 4500DPI and acceleration on, anything less and I feel like I have to move the mouse 10 miles to point to everything.
 
Methinks thou doth protest too much.

Anyway, singing the praises of a touchpad because of gestures? I can program a PC touchpad with any gestures I like. But, even the best touchpad is no match for a mouse.

You're funny guy. Go ahead and try to replicate the experience that Apple has refined through years of tweaking. As for being no match for a mouse, it depends on what you're doing of course. Doing any web browsing? It's no contest: the trackpad wins in a laugher.

Some of the things I can do are downright ridiculous and I've only been using this for a week.
 
I buy apple products (iPad, iPhone, MacBook Pro) Because if I have any problem with my device I walk into an Apple Store and 20 minutes later I walk out with a new device. The build quality is usually pretty damn good (minus the plastic macbooks and 3g/3gs iphones, prone to cracks) and just the awesome customer service.
 
Curious why you "assume" apple test their hardware better then other computer sellers?

with the past hardware issues apple has had, it makes me think they test less then some companies do.
I would guess because I've been looking into Windows netbooks lately and each laptop has its own thread for issus posted somewhere.

Ie. Lenovo X120E
Requires you to revert to standard SATA controller drivers or update manually to a version supplied by AMD rather than Lenovo to get TRIM support
Audio stuttering and mouse stuttering
Two finger scrolling doesn't really work
WiFi drivers supplied by Lenovo website prevent the wifi device from being enabled on a fresh install of Win7 x64
LAN drivers supplied by Lenovo website cause a BSOD when installed

Maybe I just picked a bad laptop? What hardware issues are you talking about? The only major Apple scandals I can think of are the whitebooks cracking (which is goodwilled by Apple), the G5 cap issue, the Nvidia card issue (which is goodwilled by Apple), 27"/24" iMac yellow screen, and the bulging batteries (goodwilled by Apple). One thing I can certainly say is that they take care of the customer when problems crop up.
 
So would you say that you could navigate with a track pad twice as fast with a multi-monitor display? Not saying that I've tried but I think it would be a major pain use a track pad on a 5780x1080 display. I have my G700 setup at 4500DPI and acceleration on, anything less and I feel like I have to move the mouse 10 miles to point to everything.

We are talking about 11"-17" notebooks, not a triple monitor display. I wouldn't use a trackpad for games either, but that is a different situation. As KENNYB said above, there are numerous situations (web browsing, email, general desktop navigation) where finger gestures are actually faster than a mouse, even when you have those same gesture functions programmed to a five button mouse like I do. For a limited workspace and a few windows, no contest.

That said, a Magic Trackpad also works really well for a 27" display, its just a REALLY huge trackpad. I'll use that instead of my mouse sometimes, no problem.

It'll be even better with OS X Lion since they are building in more gestures for things like fullsize app switching instead of the "alt-tab" type switching it has now. If anything, OS X is just insanely well tuned for notebook usage, between the system-wide optimizations and support for towards multitouch gestures and the trackpads that are built into all of their laptops. Its even an option for desktops with input devices like the Magic Trackpad.
 
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Doing any web browsing? It's no contest: the trackpad wins in a laugher.

Honest question, how so? Keep in mind that there are a ton of ways to do mouse gesturing and as I pointed out earlier how well does a track pad handle ultra high resolution displays.
 
I would guess because I've been looking into Windows netbooks lately and each laptop has its own thread for issus posted somewhere.

That's all you need to know. Pick the one with the least issues and that fulfills your requirements.
 
We are talking about 11"-17" notebooks, not a triple monitor display. I wouldn't use a trackpad for games either, but that is a different situation. As KENNYB said above, there are numerous situations (web browsing, email, general desktop navigation) where finger gestures are actually faster than a mouse, even when you have those same gesture functions programmed to a five button mouse like I do. For a limited workspace and a few windows, no contest.

I do a lot of web browsing via touch screen in Windows which actually has a good bit of gesturing built in so I don't disagree. However I've pretty much replicated all of that with mouse gesturing using IE7Pro and my G700s have momentum scroll wheels so vertical flicking is beautiful.

Not trying to say that mice are better than track pads or vice versa, I'm simply saying that most of the gesturing of a track pad can be added, especially to things like web browsing.
 
Honest question, how so? Keep in mind that there are a ton of ways to do mouse gesturing and as I pointed out earlier how well does a track pad handle ultra high resolution displays.

I think I would be at a disadvantage on multi monitors. I don't know if I would loss sensitivity to gain acceleration. I'm buying another monitor soon. Not enough to match your resolution, but I should add some horizontal real-estate.

I used to own a Logitech mouse with a free wheel and I could scroll pretty darn fast. Faster than the MBPs trackpad, but with less precise control. Now I can scroll fast or slow up or down, left or right with extreme precision. I can also quickly navigate web pages backward or forward. The trackpad has the advantage of gestures and keeping your hands near the keyboard. If I was using a Magic Pad (or whatever it's called), I may feel different. I would still have the precision scrolling and fast page navigation, but at least one of my hands would be away from the keyboard.

I won't claim that the trackpad beats all. But for some tasks it has significant advantages.
 
I do a lot of web browsing via touch screen in Windows which actually has a good bit of gesturing built in so I don't disagree. However I've pretty much replicated all of that with mouse gesturing using IE7Pro and my G700s have momentum scroll wheels so vertical flicking is beautiful.

Not trying to say that mice are better than track pads or vice versa, I'm simply saying that most of the gesturing of a track pad can be added, especially to things like web browsing.

I've never tried IE7Pro. It sounds interesting, but I think I'm getting tired of tweaking. I'm having enough frustration getting 2 finger scrolling in Windows to mimic the OS X feel.

Using a trackpad that feels right from the get go makes me want to use my computer for longer periods. The trackpad also has the unfair advantage of being right next to the keyboard. Anything not programmed as a gesture is probably a keyboard shortcut away.;)
 
I want a nice portable laptop that can connect to my NFS server in the garage.

Dell Vostro 3450: $700
Windows 7 Ultimate: $200 (Home/Pro/etc don't have NFS support)
______________________
Total: $900

I paid $100 more for my Macbook Pro with the same specs. It's worth it to me to have something that doesn't flex when I pick it up. It's nice having the multitouch trackpad, longer battery life, and integration with the *NIX commands I actually use on a daily basis (ssh, scp, rsync, etc). It's not that much more expensive.
 
I can't believe I'm about to do this, but in my experience using the Zune 30 and the iPod 5G/6G, the iPod has a more usable interface and better user interaction.

  • On the iPod, you can pause/play a song while navigating any part of the device. On the Zune, you can't pause while in the main directory, though you can quickly flip between artists, playlists, etc.
  • The iPod has a now playing section. The Zune does not.
  • The iPod's clickwheel is significantly more tactile than the Zune's. On the Zune 30 you have to hold the button to navigate long stretches, then let go and home in on what you want, etc. On the other hand, while holding down up or down, the Zune always displays the letters you passing through, while on the iPod I've found that I have to scroll significantly faster than I normally would to make the 'letter display' come up. I personally like the letter display for moving through the artists directory, and like this aspect of the Zune.
  • With the iPod, you hold down one button to turn it off (brilliant). With the Zune, you HOLD DOWN two different buttons, in my case requiring two hands.
  • iPod has better compatibility with proprietary connections sometimes. My car stereo (Sony MEX-3800U if I recall correctly) has a USB port which I can use to interface with any iPod, but the Zune can't do USB, it needs a regular 1/8" jack (I haven't researched the Zune's compatibility in this regard entirely, it's incompatibility with my car may be PEBKAC).

Before writing all the bullets ^^^, I thought that I liked the iPod more, but after putting all my thoughts on paper, both make concessions in different departments. I still consider the iPod the more user-friendly and intuitive of the two, because it doesn't sacrifice anything in totally-obvious areas (two buttons to turn an MP3 player off, are you fucking kidding me?!?!).

All of this being said, I disagree strongly with Apple's business model, products, and especially the image it has made for itself and captivates the masses with. I will never own an Apple computer of my own will. An aluminum enclosure and slightly better build quality do not, by any means, justify the exorbitant rates Apple charges for standard to obsolete hardware that is shackled by needlessly expensive and proprietary expansion cards, all without any long-term warranty by default. To anyone who thinks otherwise:

Laptops: I don't know much about those, but I bet I can do much better for the price.
Desktops: Read ^^^. Have a nice day.
 
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Before writing all the bullets ^^^, I thought that I liked the iPod more, but after putting all my thoughts on paper, both make concessions in different departments. I still consider the iPod the more user-friendly and intuitive of the two, because it doesn't sacrifice anything in totally-obvious areas (two buttons to turn an MP3 player off, are you fucking kidding me?!?!).

Never had a Zune 30 but I have 2 Zune 80s and a 32 GB Zune HD and use the all the time and have never turned them off.
 
I've never owned an apple computer (outside of an old and tired, used, G5 desktop... that I sold to friend soon after buying it), but if I ever purchased a laptop, it would probably be an apple. I'll explain below.

I used to be the anti-apple, PC or nothing, guy... I LOATHED apple. I went to school for graphic design and was forced to use one for a few of my classes... I always felt like it was fighting me every step of the way. I think that had more to do with my unfamiliarity with the OS and it's functions than the system itself (expect for that frustrating pinwheel of death... that wasn't my doing). At that point, I'd been using microsoft opperating systems my entire life.

Anyway, in 2007 when apple launched the iphone, I felt the way that many of the android and PC guys do today. What was the point of it? Who would be stupid enough to buy an apple phone? They're all sheep. You're getting scammed out of your money. (rinse and repeat). I was VERY closed minded.

A good friend of mine ended up buying one (he'd been using apples for quite a while at that point and I would let him know it any chance I got :D) and about a week later, at our weekly poker game, I finally got my hands on it and was blown away by it. I had never used a phone that had that large of a screen, was able to get access to the full internet and the countless other features that were a first (or the first time someone got the feature 'right' atleast) for a cellphone.

A week later, I decided to ditch my current phone at the time and went to AT&T to sign up for a new iphone. Once jailbreaking hit the scene, I started learning (by choice and by necessity) more about the file system, OS's and apples software in general. Since I couldn't stand to use itunes on my windows PC, I dual booted OSx86 so I could run iTunes inside of OSX (and sync my phone that way). After using it for a while (and many many frustrating hours re-learning how to do things that we're second nature in Windows/DOS) I started to understand why some people liked the interface and the company in general. Some of the choices that the designers and engineers felt very well thought out and intuitive. It was a lot more simplified... but in a good way. I didn't feel like I was needlessly jumping through hoops to do basic stuff (something that windows 7 really improved upon).

It's now 2011... I've been using iOS (and OSx to some extent) for close to 4 years. I would never buy a mac desktop machine as I enjoy putting computers together myself, but I'm also a LOT more open minded than I used to be. Apple electronics are honestly some of the best built gadgets that's I've ever owned or used. The fit & finish, build quality and materials really is second to none and that is the reason why I would buy apple over another computer manufacturer (dell, hp, emachines, etc)... the price difference is worth what you're getting out of it IMO.

I had a very similar experiece to you only my experience happend a few years later from your experience. I, too, was like 95% of the people on [H] "LOLOLZ Apple!" "they suck!". To say I was anti-apple would be an understatement. Fast forward to summer 2010- I was in the market for a high end smartphone. I'm on vzw so at the time there was no iPhone for me. I spent a few weeks reading all the reviews including those of the iPhone 3GS. I wasn't that impressed with the 3GS but when the 4 came out I was very impressed. I still wasn't a fan of Apple though and the 4 wasnt availbe to be so I went with an HTC Incredible. A decent phone in its own right but after using it for a number of months I realized that android was premature, 800x480 on a 3.7in screen sucks (I dunno how people rave about the thunderbolt or DX when those phones have even less PPI), the apps are nice but holy shit is it fragmentized, you have to pick and choose which apps will work for your phone. One thing I hated most was lack of hardware acceleration, browsing on that phone just didn't give me a user experience I was looking for.

Finally in Feb 2011 the iPhone came out for vzw. I was already sold months before its arrival due to my research and playing around with one for a while so when I finally got my hands on it I was greatly pleased. Everything that I wanted in my android phone but couldn't have (and STILL can't have in any android based device, except LTE) I got plus 10x more with my iPhone. After jbing and discovering what cydia was it was a whole new ball game.

Since I've only owned one apple product my entire life I can only attest to that. I really like the MBP's and the MBA's but I don't want to learn OSX so I find it pointless if I buy a MBP/A and put Windows on it.

I also never buy desktops cause I would never use one (I'm not a gamer) and a laptop does 100% of what I need from a computer but if I ever were to buy a desktop it would probably be an iMac.
 
I bought the 27" imac because of the display primarily. Comparable displays are covered with that terrible AG that nobody else seems to mind, but it really wreaks havoc on my eyes.
 
So would you say that you could navigate with a track pad twice as fast with a multi-monitor display? Not saying that I've tried but I think it would be a major pain use a track pad on a 5780x1080 display. I have my G700 setup at 4500DPI and acceleration on, anything less and I feel like I have to move the mouse 10 miles to point to everything.

Well heatlesssun, I don't have "quite" that much realestate, but I usually use my 15" MBP Highres with a 22" 1680x1050 display as a second, and I still love the touchpad. Though in this setup, I have the Magic touchpad, as the laptop touchpad is on the laptop, which is on a stand to get it at the same eye level as the monitor.

Granted not "quite" the same, but it is 3360x1050, which is pretty respectable.
 
I also wanted to point out an interesting turn around w/r/t apple products.

Their surprisingly easy upgrade process.

You don't upgrade system spec's from Apple (nor do you from Dell IMO, or HP, or anyone) because they are overpriced.

But its easy to upgrade aftermarket, and particularly the HDD bracket is one of the more clever one's I've ever seen. Solid, stable, and with just a touch of "give" for vibration dampening.

Also, because Apple only changes their formfactor/layout every few generations, and there is such a "locked environment" you get some interesting mod options that don't seem to exist for most PC's.

E.G. There are a couple of companies that produce a cradle kit to remove the optical drive from the MPB and install a HDD. Some, like the MCE Optidrive, even ship you an external USB enclosure that fits the superdrive coming out of the MBP.

The ram isn't "apple ram", rather if you stick the right speed ram (standard speeds) into your laptop, boom, it's upgraded.

Then there are cosmetic upgrades, the common (on mac's) "clipon shell" case that protects against scratches/smudges, etc, and a few dozen more cosmetic's that shouldn't matter, and yet, do.

My only complaint with upgrading/working on apples, is apple's decision to use 10 screws on the base to get in, but I figure they did that for rigidity, and upgrading any component once inside is easy as pie.
 
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