Why do many new demos make you reboot before playing?

[Spacy9]

Okay, this used to tick me off a long time ago, and its doing so again. I'd install a new demo to check out the game and it would need me to reboot before I could play. I put this off as crappy coding of the game. Gradually this went away and after a while almost every new demo did not require a reboot - it seemed to be like this for a couple of years. Now for some reason the last several demos that I have downloaded have some sort of 'Protection system' that makes you reboot before you can play. My question is WHY? Is it crappy coding on the developers part? Is there a reason for it that I dont see? Is this something that will continue? And finally, what the hell is the 'Protection system' anyway?

Thanks!

 

[anotherguy159]

Clear temp files/clear ram.

 

[CHollman82]

Unless they are installing a new version of DirectX I don't see any reason to have to reboot the PC after installing a game demo. Why would you need to clear temp files? That would only have an impact on game performance if you are so low on disk space that it's limiting the swap file size (which would only be an issue on low memory systems). If they are doing it to clear memory then every game should require a reboot before it is run, but it assumed to be the users responsibility to close unecessary programs before running a game.

 

[HereComeTheBugs]

To install copy protection mechanisms like starforce.

Read this for more info: www.firingsquad.com/features/starforce_interview/

Personally I stay the hell away from demo's (and full version games) that install starforce.

Edit: Not that I'm against copy protection -- I don’t pirate games, I buy all mine. I just don’t like the shady business tactics that companies are using to protect their games... it's really screwed up how they install starforce without letting you know.

 

[CHollman82]

Demo's install StarForce???

I would have said that but I don't see why a demo would install it...

 

[HereComeTheBugs]

Demo's install StarForce???

I would have said that but I don't see why a demo would install it...

Yup.

Crackers use the demo code to figure out how to crack the full version... Which is why more and more demo's are coming with protection.

One of the latest demos that installs starforce is the new King Kong demo (the Peter Jackson movie).

 

[bipolar]

I think much of the time it is just a CYA measure by the dev; back in the bad old days of Windows ME/9x, you *had* to reboot after installing ... well, just about anything, before you could use it. There have been a number of apps and games I have installed that have urged me to reboot before launching which I ignored and used without any problems.

 

[CHollman82]

Yeah, MOST of the time you do not have to reboot, even if it suggests that you do. I like Microsofts philosophy best ... "It's OUR OS and we will MAKE you reboot it" ... the dialog boxes that say "Click OK to reboot" that only have an OK button and cannot be closed... LMAO

 

[mikeblas]

Clear temp files/clear ram.

Clear RAM? How do you mean?

 

[Digital Terror]

Clear RAM? How do you mean?

Removing all the bits and pieces of programs from RAM that won't get cleared out any other way. Some programs have memory leaks so bad that after using them a short while, if you don't reboot after quitting the program your system will lag badly, cause other programs to crash when trying to open them, refuse to even begin to open programs, etc.

 

[PC]

I think much of the time it is just a CYA measure by the dev; back in the bad old days of Windows ME/9x, you *had* to reboot after installing ... well, just about anything, before you could use it. There have been a number of apps and games I have installed that have urged me to reboot before launching which I ignored and used without any problems.

Hee hee. You used Windows ME...

I hate copy protection. I make backups of all my games, and it's saved my ass a few times. Saved me some bucks.

Rebooting after installing a game takes more time, and installing takes a lot of time... It's starting to drive people towards the instant gratification of consoles.

 

[mikeblas]

Removing all the bits and pieces of programs from RAM that won't get cleared out any other way. Some programs have memory leaks so bad that after using them a short while, if you don't reboot after quitting the program your system will lag badly, cause other programs to crash when trying to open them, refuse to even begin to open programs, etc.

By "bad", do you mean in quantity? Or something else? What else?

Why wouldn't the OS clean up after the process is shut down?

Sorry for the skepticism, but this sounds very dubious to me.

 

[Digital Terror]

By "bad", do you mean in quantity? Or something else? What else?

Why wouldn't the OS clean up after the process is shut down?

Sorry for the skepticism, but this sounds very dubious to me.

Yes, quantity mostly. Really bad memory leaks will fill up all available ram fairly quick, not so bad ones might only leave a few k worth of leftover processes that won't get cleaned up.

Not being a programmer, I can't tell you exactly why the OS won't clean up some bits of leftover processes out of RAM at times.

Here's the Wikipedia entry for it. Take a look, might explain some things for you
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_leak

 

[BassTek]

By "bad", do you mean in quantity? Or something else? What else?

Why wouldn't the OS clean up after the process is shut down?

Sorry for the skepticism, but this sounds very dubious to me.

The OS can't recover it, because the program which has since stopped running is still reserving that space. There's no way for an OS to tell if the section of memory should be freed or not, so over time the leaks build up.

Here's a better explanation: http://www.eweek.com/encyclopedia_term/0,2542,t=memory+leak&i=46775,00.asp

edit - looks like like I was beat to the punch

 

[Kristo]

To install copy protection mechanisms like starforce.

Read this for more info: www.firingsquad.com/features/starforce_interview/

Personally I stay the hell away from demo's (and full version games) that install starforce.

Edit: Not that I'm against copy protection -- I don’t pirate games, I buy all mine. I just don’t like the shady business tactics that companies are using to protect their games... it's really screwed up how they install starforce without letting you know.

as far as I am concerned, starforce can go take a long walk off a short pier. That interview made me want to slap the dude from starforce.

The thing is, yes, its their right to burden their software with whatever crap they like. Its my right to not buy it. Thing is, they will cry that piracy stopped that sale, not the fact that I don't like being dictated to on how I use my software. If people pirate things, you are not making it worth their while...

I remember buying Falcon 3 I think, had the biggest manual under the sun. Or actually getting a nice box with cool artwork and a fat manual.....

bah, i am bitter, stupid companies dont have a right to profit...bah. stupid starfarce.

 

[mikeblas]

Not being a programmer, I can't tell you exactly why the OS won't clean up some bits of leftover processes out of RAM at times.

Being a very experienced programmer, I can tell you that the "clearning memory" theory is not a good one.

I'm well aware of what a memory leak is. But I haven't ever seen one which lives past the process that owned the memory. Of course, if the memory is shared between two processes, both might own a reference to it and the OS would not free the memory until both processes are done. But why would a game use shared memory?

For another thread, I provided a program which allocates all the memory on your system. Because I was lazy, I didn't write any code to free any of the allocated memory. Run it yourself and watch global memory usage in PerfMon; it returns to the state it was after the process ends because the OS frees the memory that the process had been using.

The links you provide give some definition of memory leak, but don't offer any explanation of why Windows might not clean up the memory not freed by a process after it terminates. If Windows didn't do this at least most of the time, it would be prety much unusable; a staggering number of commercial applications have memory leaks, as do applications larger business develop for themselves.

Note also that memory a program allocates lives in the address space of the process that allocated it. If the process ends, the address space of that process simply doesn't exist anymore.

The OS can't recover it, because the program which has since stopped running is still reserving that space. There's no way for an OS to tell if the section of memory should be freed or not, so over time the leaks build up.

Since the process has terminated, the OS clearly knows that any of the resources the process had been using won't be used any longer (unless someone else has explicitly declared their interest in them, as well). When an application makes a request for a resource, the system makes a note of which process made that request. If the process terminates for any reason, the OS can clean up after it.

The most common reason for a program to require a reboot is that it's replacing a file that is in use. If you think about the system, it's just a collection of libraries and programs; if a setup program needs to upgrade or change anything, it will have to overwrite one of those files. But it can't, since the file is in use.

Windows provides an interface that lets a developer write code requesting that a file be removed, renamed, or replaced after the system starts up, before actually beginning to use that file. (One such interface is the MoveFileEx API.)

There are some other reasons to reboot, though they're not that common. There are some tools which help you see why a pending reboot is required. WhyReboot is one such example which focuses on pending file operations.