Why didnt Valve at least improve the game when porting to Source ?

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Labrador

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Personally I really like CounterStrike:Source, but they were a few minor things that upset, not seeing ANY improvement in gameplay. I mean it is 2004, NOT 1999 when CS was first released.

Last night really brought it out, I was gaming with my brothers friends who have been playing PC Games since the early 90's, and was there first time on CounterStrike. He made some valid points that I agree 100%.

- His first question was, what button makes the guns fire single shot ? I said you cant, he said WTF, in realf life these guns can do that

- What key is the zoom button for all weapons, I said only a few guns allow zoom, he said ghey

- How do you just look around corners, I said again you cant, he said man this game is really lacking in basic gameplay


So we all played for about 2hours last night, and my bro's buddy did really well, was in 2nd-4th place on 32players servers the whole night. Not bad for a newb CS player

But his biggest complaint was getting killed by snipers, but he HATED the way the sniper would get him. These guys would jump in the air, and still land a snipe on him, "head shot" or they would be running and snipe him. he said BullSh!t, they should ONLY be allowed to zoom while stopped and crouched, you cant frigging snipe someone while jumping or running that is complete idiot idea :(


So I agree with his main points, just change the gameplay a little, it is 2004 NOT 1999, game have evolved since then. Why they didnt at least add a single fire shot mode is beyond me.
 
point #1:
in "real life" SOME guns can be set to single, burst and full auto (MP5 is a very good example for that, the AK47 can only do single and full AFAIK) ...

point #2:
Except for weapons with scope, why should there be zoom? Far Cry does it the way he likes it, and I like how it is done, even though it doesn't happen in the "real world"

point #3:
Counter-Strike is more of an "arcade" shooter than "simulation" shooter, in arcade shooters you don't need to lean (how come you can't lean in Quake3 or UT2k4?)

If you want a game with as much realism as possile, then how come you don't die in 2-3 bullets to the body?

I suggest you play STALKER (when it comes out, of course) ...

Labrador said:
Personally I really like CounterStrike:Source, but they were a few minor things that upset, not seeing ANY improvement in gameplay. I mean it is 2004, NOT 1999 when CS was first released.

Last night really brought it out, I was gaming with my brothers friends who have been playing PC Games since the early 90's, and was there first time on CounterStrike. He made some valid points that I agree 100%.

- His first question was, what button makes the guns fire single shot ? I said you cant, he said WTF, in realf life these guns can do that

- What key is the zoom button for all weapons, I said only a few guns allow zoom, he said ghey

- How do you just look around corners, I said again you cant, he said man this game is really lacking in basic gameplay


So we all played for about 2hours last night, and my bro's buddy did really well, was in 2nd-4th place on 32players servers the whole night. Not bad for a newb CS player

But his biggest complaint was getting killed by snipers, but he HATED the way the sniper would get him. These guys would jump in the air, and still land a snipe on him, "head shot" or they would be running and snipe him. he said BullSh!t, they should ONLY be allowed to zoom while stopped and crouched, you cant frigging snipe someone while jumping or running that is complete idiot idea :(


So I agree with his main points, just change the gameplay a little, it is 2004 NOT 1999, game have evolved since then. Why they didnt at least add a single fire shot mode is beyond me.
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1) Some guns: Right Click for single shot

2) Zoom: Right Click with scoped guns

3) You can lean around the corner but I don't know the key off the top of my head.
 
The game wasnt designed to be realistic. If it was you wouldnt move as fast as you do, and a bunch of other stuff.
 
Yep, cs is nowhere near the best fps. The only reason I can think of for its popularity is because it will run on any computer.

Now the way the weapons are designed, I don't think you would want single shot. Since one shot even in the head doesn't usually kill. Don't quite understand that but oh well. Now the whole zoom thing is retarded. Personally I don't think you should be able to zoom at all while moving.

I just bought hl2, and hadn't played cs in years. Played a couple games and decided it wasn't for me. However, I still like dod. They need to hurry and port it.
 
Arkanian said:
3) You can lean around the corner but I don't know the key off the top of my head.
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I've never seen this available and I've played since Beta 5.2
 
Well you can change the position of your weapon when holding it. The zoom thing with all basic weapons where you move your head closer to the gun sights is potentially usefull. Almost EVERY FPS has this now. You never see SWAT guys shooting from the hip.

I never got into CS myself. A little realism wouldn't hurt. With this new engine they had a chance to make CS better. Weather, some new effects, a little more realism, I think would make the game more fun. Jump sniping is gay and I don't like it.

I know the game wasn't supposed to be 100% realistic but total fantasy physics suck ass.

Even being SCI-FI Star Wars Battlefront is more realistic than that. They killed all that bunny hopping shit off by keeping you from firing while in the air.

Just my $0.02.
 
bunnyhopping is more about just movement than movement while shooting.
 
Just wait until the mod comunity learns how to really use the source engine. I'm sure you'll see some nice things being done with the maps. And as far as gameplay goes, if it's not broke, why fix it.
 
CS isn't just popular cause it can run on any computer, its popular cause its FUN.

the gameplay is fast paced and fun, and its not that hard to play at all.

it game is what, 6 years old and still over 100,000 people play it, its definately made its mark as one of the best FPS games ever.
 
Labrador said:
Personally I really like CounterStrike:Source, but they were a few minor things that upset, not seeing ANY improvement in gameplay. I mean it is 2004, NOT 1999 when CS was first released.

Last night really brought it out, I was gaming with my brothers friends who have been playing PC Games since the early 90's, and was there first time on CounterStrike. He made some valid points that I agree 100%.

- His first question was, what button makes the guns fire single shot ? I said you cant, he said WTF, in realf life these guns can do that

- What key is the zoom button for all weapons, I said only a few guns allow zoom, he said ghey

- How do you just look around corners, I said again you cant, he said man this game is really lacking in basic gameplay


So we all played for about 2hours last night, and my bro's buddy did really well, was in 2nd-4th place on 32players servers the whole night. Not bad for a newb CS player

But his biggest complaint was getting killed by snipers, but he HATED the way the sniper would get him. These guys would jump in the air, and still land a snipe on him, "head shot" or they would be running and snipe him. he said BullSh!t, they should ONLY be allowed to zoom while stopped and crouched, you cant frigging snipe someone while jumping or running that is complete idiot idea :(


So I agree with his main points, just change the gameplay a little, it is 2004 NOT 1999, game have evolved since then. Why they didnt at least add a single fire shot mode is beyond me.
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I know this your gonna have a hard time understanding this, but cs:s is a game... If you want to use a "single" shot.....TAP THE MOUSE ONCE.....if you don't want to get killed by an AWPer, then kill him before he kills you, dumbshit....gameplay doesn't need any changes, it's been the way it is since 1999. It was because of people like you that they ever introduced a riot shield. :eek:
 
At least if you make just one change please allow burst fire for most of the weapons, and of course when sniping if you jump you loose the zoom, to snipe you should have to be still, like all other games.

sh!t even wolfenstein didnt allow you to move and snipe, had to stand still
 
Labrador said:
At least if you make just one change please allow burst fire for most of the weapons, and of course when sniping if you jump you loose the zoom, to snipe you should have to be still, like all other games.

sh!t even wolfenstein didnt allow you to move and snipe, had to stand still
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Ok dude. Go buy an AWP, jump and hs someone from across the map while in midair. You can't. Stop talking, your giving the word "noob" a bad name.
 
i wouldn't mind having the zoom on the sniper rifle go out when i start jumping.. its not like i'm glued to it. but meh. i dont really care. this isn't ravenshield.

i would love to have the fire rates be able to be adjusted..but again. this isn't ravenshield.

leaning..nope..not ravenshield
zoom on every weapon...er..nope...

i'm simply saying that this is a fun arcade shooter that isn't supposed to be a total tactical experience. its suppose to be a mindless fun shooter that you dont have to spend 20 minutes getting into strats for. why does spraying a guy with a mp5 not mean i'll kill him..even if i hit him 4 times? because the damage isn't realisitc. but thats ok. because this game wasn't ment to simulate real life so much as real fantasy life.
 
cai said:
Ok dude. Go buy an AWP, jump and hs someone from across the map while in midair. You can't. Stop talking, your giving the word "noob" a bad name.
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What he's talking about is what many awpers do on CS. They jump, then as they hit the ground, they crouch so that they get crouching accuracy. And they do it so quick that it looks like you're getting shot while they're in mid-air.
 
Bane said:
What he's talking about is what many awpers do on CS. They jump, then as they hit the ground, they crouch so that they get crouching accuracy. And they do it so quick that it looks like you're getting shot while they're in mid-air.
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thats skill IMO

as long as no cheating is going on, i dont care what they do. ive played CS on and off since the first beta. more so in the begining, and less as time went on. IMO, beta 5.2? was the best version ever, before that gay netcode update and right as CS was going mainstrem...

if you want your weapon to do burst or single shot, write a script file. perfectly legal and kinda fun. I wrote a huge script file that evolved over the years. it would do all kinds of stuff, even a "burst mode" fire for all the capable weapons. this made them much more accurate then full auto, but faster firing than the single shots. other stuff included select nade and toss, back to main weapon with one of the mouse 4 or 5 buttons...these little scripts helped work out some of the games little annoyances.

yeah, the leaning left and right thing is kinda of annoying but minor IMO, lots of modern shooters dont do that

CS will go down as the one the best and funnest online FPS shooters ever, its just too bad the cheaters killed it, the whole reason it was fun had nothing to do with graphics, it was about game play
 
um.... your not more accurate when crouched....

if u have dynimaiccrosshair on then your cross hair gets smaller and your spray is a bit more controled

the only guns that are relly accurate when u jump are the glock with burst
mp5
famas with burst(not so much on this gun)
 
As has been stated CS is not a combat simulation nor has it ever tried to be IMO. There have always been more realistic games out. CS is supposed to be plain fun. I like the gameplay dynamic as it is to be honest.

For the kind of gameplay and features you are talking about then Raven Shield is much more suited.
 
I totally agree, they should have improved on those things. Howver, those things, while not being changed, are the things that have been part of CS and have been unchanged throught the years. Therefore, the game was (and I use this term loosely) balanced around them. Besides, the game is CS: Source. It's still the same old CS, just source. And that's not a bad thing to people who love CS.
 
ElementK said:
I totally agree, they should have improved on those things. Howver, those things, while not being changed, are the things that have been part of CS and have been unchanged throught the years. Therefore, the game was (and I use this term loosely) balanced around them. Besides, the game is CS: Source. It's still the same old CS, just source. And that's not a bad thing to people who love CS.
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Exactly, its not a NEW game. Its the just the old game on a new physics and lighting engine with some new textures and what not. It is not Counter Strike 2.
 
I think what most of the people are saying is not that they want CS to be Ravenshield. It's just that CS has no realism at all what-so-ever. CS based on the game name, etc. Was probably supposed to be more real than it is. I doubt it was supposed to be another UT2k4. However I guess the engine didn't support, it or something. Most these people probably expected many of these "problems" do be fixed in this new version because it would now be easily possible.

Now don't flame me because I've never even played CS. I'm just trying to reiterate what they're trying to say. :p
 
They didn't "fix" it, because it doesn't need to be fixed. Counter Strike was never meant to be realistic, it was meant to be fun, and that's what it is.
 
heyheyhey said:
They didn't "fix" it, because it doesn't need to be fixed. Counter Strike was never meant to be realistic, it was meant to be fun, and that's what it is.
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If you think of it from the point of view of someone who hasn't played before though. That doesn't make sense. If you compare what you are trying to accomplish in the game and what the game is all about, you would think it would be a little more realistic, however it comes in nearly first place for being the most unrealistic it seems.

But once again I don't know wtf I'm talking about ;)

Anyways. Who knows maybe the only reason it was so unrealistic is because they couldn't make it more realistc (engine limitations etc.)? Maybe it WASN'T supposed to be unrealistic. Maybe this all happened on accident.

*puts on tinfoil hat* :p
 
]|[ Mar']['in ]|[ said:
If you think of it from the point of view of someone who hasn't played before though. That doesn't make sense. If you compare what you are trying to accomplish in the game and what the game is all about, you would think it would be a little more realistic, however it comes in nearly first place for being the most unrealistic it seems.

But once again I don't know wtf I'm talking about ;)

Anyways. Who knows maybe the only reason it was so unrealistic is because they couldn't make it more realistc (engine limitations etc.? Maybe it WASN'T supposed to be unrealistic. Maybe this all happened on accident.

*puts on tinfoil hat* :p
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What are you talking about? The game sacrifices realism for fun play, I don't see how anyone couldn't understand that. There is no need for realism. If you want realism play a different game.

They didn't make it realistic because they ported the same game to Source engine. A majority of gamers do not want these "improvements." A majority of people do not want to play a realistic game and if they do they know what to play.

It was no accident how the gameplay ended up.
 
Let's keep a tally of all the threads Labrador makes complaining about CS:S despite his claims that he likes the game. :rolleyes:
 
]|[ Mar']['in ]|[ said:
I think what most of the people are saying is not that they want CS to be Ravenshield. It's just that CS has no realism at all what-so-ever. CS based on the game name, etc. Was probably supposed to be more real than it is. I doubt it was supposed to be another UT2k4. However I guess the engine didn't support, it or something. Most these people probably expected many of these "problems" do be fixed in this new version because it would now be easily possible.

Now don't flame me because I've never even played CS. I'm just trying to reiterate what they're trying to say. :p
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These are not problems. This is how the game is designed. Some mods for the HL engine have leaning.
 
Funny thing is..do you guys that say its not supposed to be realistic have ties with Valve? or work for them? How do you know its not supposed to be realistic unless you work for Valve..These guys arent ex-marines or vietnam vets..they are probably overweight nerds with pocketprotectors for their pens. I would imagine they do have some inhouse people that are maybe consulting for the company that tell them how a gun sounds or is fired, but not having actually been on the battlefield they dont know this stuff. They absolutely can make the game as realistic as possible but to do that, they need consultants in there with experience on hostage/terrorist situations, which im sure they dont have.
 
Slowing the game down would only make people not like the game... its fast paced action with m16s, aks, deagles, awps and other various military weapons are what makes it unique.
 
Another reason they didnt put all these realistic features into it..is because they had to make it playable on low end pcs.. Putting all the mombo jumbo in the game would cause all the 9 year olds to beg mommy and daddy to upgrade their pcs or cause college students to take an even bigger loan out just to upgrade components..and would piss alot of people off in the process..so what does Valve do, sacrifice looks for playability.

Sure the game is definately a step up from regular CS..and most people wont see it with their 600mhz computers and geforce 2's..but saying its new technology and next generation graphics is bs.

Next gen graphics is the Unreal 3 engine. Not a modified Half-Life engine coded for dx9 graphics saying its next gen.
 
Models look more realistic and detailed than from any other game i've played and the water is just great. Any other game i've played the models look cartoony and the only other game that can compete in the water area would be farcry but even it doesn't look as realistic as hl2s.

Some of us like the look that the source engine brings rather than the look that doom 3 brings.

and correct me if i'm wrong... unreal 3 isn't even released nor is there even a date... if i wanted to watch demos i'd go run 3dmark05 again. :)
 
at least they improved the spray, here is my clan's tag. (these aren't my team's bullets)
cs_office0002.jpg
 
I was rolling my eyes while i was reading your post (AFAIK, those points only slowdown the game :rolleyes: ) 'til i got to this one.

But his biggest complaint was getting killed by snipers, but he HATED the way the sniper would get him. These guys would jump in the air, and still land a snipe on him, "head shot" or they would be running and snipe him. he said BullSh!t, they should ONLY be allowed to zoom while stopped and crouched, you cant frigging snipe someone while jumping or running that is complete idiot idea
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YOU MEAN THEY STILL HAVEN'T FIXED THIS?!?! F*** U VALVE!!! :mad:

Please don't tell me bunny hopping is still in there :(
 
The problem with CS isn't the game itself but the people who play it. This thread is a perfect example. There are a lot of people who've been playing for a year or so and have no idea where this mod came from. They just know what game they want it to be. Never in its history has Counter-strike been about ultra-realism. Read through the changelogs to get an idea of how it has evolved. Neither has CS been about complete action either. It isn't Rainbow Six and it isn't UT. It's the nice balance that everyone loves so much. How much fun is it to get killed by one shot to the leg? Conversely how much fun is it to hold your trigger finger down knowing that you will infinitely respawn? To some people the former is most fun and for others the latter. But nearly everyone, it seems, likes the middleground. Add to this the very simple gameplay and its no wonder people like to play it. The reason I don't like a lot of other FPS is that there is a button to do everything. In CS you have the essentials and its up to you to make your character do what you want. Easy to learn, difficult to master. Quite frankly, if you don't like the game now you probably never will because it won't change much from here on.

I've been playing since beta 3 pretty consistently. I will be the first to admit that the game is much, much, much more polished now than it ever was before retail. The reason the experience is so negative now is because the demographic of players has changed drastically. I remember when teamwork was regular and even losing was fun because the people playing were much more supportive. Now everyone's a bully and takes every opportunity to put each other down.
 
phaelinx said:
Funny thing is..do you guys that say its not supposed to be realistic have ties with Valve? or work for them? How do you know its not supposed to be realistic unless you work for Valve..These guys arent ex-marines or vietnam vets..they are probably overweight nerds with pocketprotectors for their pens. I would imagine they do have some inhouse people that are maybe consulting for the company that tell them how a gun sounds or is fired, but not having actually been on the battlefield they dont know this stuff. They absolutely can make the game as realistic as possible but to do that, they need consultants in there with experience on hostage/terrorist situations, which im sure they dont have.
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Valve didn't make CS. Modders did.

They didn't "improve" CS because the majority of people who play it don't want it to change. IT'S A SIMPLE CONCEPT.
 
the@ntipop said:
I remember when teamwork was regular and even losing was fun because the people playing were much more supportive. Now everyone's a bully and takes every opportunity to put each other down.
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This is why I stopped playing. People go "well find good servers!". Well good servers have excellent players on them, of which I am not one. I am a mediocre CS player so it's hard to have fun now. It's either WAAAAAAY to serious or people ruin it.
 
d34dly said:
This is why I stopped playing. People go "well find good servers!". Well good servers have excellent players on them, of which I am not one. I am a mediocre CS player so it's hard to have fun now. It's either WAAAAAAY to serious or people ruin it.
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so run your own server.
 
the@ntipop said:
The problem with CS isn't the game itself but the people who play it. This thread is a perfect example. There are a lot of people who've been playing for a year or so and have no idea where this mod came from. They just know what game they want it to be. Never in its history has Counter-strike been about ultra-realism. Read through the changelogs to get an idea of how it has evolved. Neither has CS been about complete action either. It isn't Rainbow Six and it isn't UT. It's the nice balance that everyone loves so much. How much fun is it to get killed by one shot to the leg? Conversely how much fun is it to hold your trigger finger down knowing that you will infinitely respawn? To some people the former is most fun and for others the latter. But nearly everyone, it seems, likes the middleground. Add to this the very simple gameplay and its no wonder people like to play it. The reason I don't like a lot of other FPS is that there is a button to do everything. In CS you have the essentials and its up to you to make your character do what you want. Easy to learn, difficult to master. Quite frankly, if you don't like the game now you probably never will because it won't change much from here on.

I've been playing since beta 3 pretty consistently. I will be the first to admit that the game is much, much, much more polished now than it ever was before retail. The reason the experience is so negative now is because the demographic of players has changed drastically. I remember when teamwork was regular and even losing was fun because the people playing were much more supportive. Now everyone's a bully and takes every opportunity to put each other down.
Click to expand...

Listen to what this guy is saying. Its the truth.

CS is made the way it is for a reason. I havnt really played much since the 1.4/1.5 era but it was great fun then and the years before that, I just hope that CSS hasnt been changed too much in terms of gameplay. The pace/action vs realism balance was brilliant. I'm not buying HL2 over Steam so I wont be able to play until its out retail, but if what people say about gameplay not having changed much is true then I for one will be happy.
 
UberL33tjarad said:
so run your own server.
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Nah... I am not complaining about it, I just don't have enough dedication to get really good at it. I get all caught up in COD:UO. :D
 
heyheyhey said:
They didn't "fix" it, because it doesn't need to be fixed. Counter Strike was never meant to be realistic, it was meant to be fun, and that's what it is.
Click to expand...

Then why did they model real world weapons, and situations to match military combat, but then have the game play like Quake. That part confuses me, it looks like a real military game, but doesnt act like one

I would just like a few minor change, such as burst or single fire shot on guns that REALLY have that, and maybe no sniper crosshairs unless still
 
Labrador said:
Then why did they model real world weapons, and situations to match military combat, but then have the game play like Quake. That part confuses me, it looks like a real military game, but doesnt act like one
Click to expand...

Because... it's a simple idea.

Example: when you were a little kid, were you fascinated by military stuff on TV? I know I was. But I didn't give a CRAP about the accuracy of the movie, game, etc. I just wanted to blow something up!

CS plays on those urges without being too complicated. It is meant to be simple!!!!!!

If you wanna change it, go out and make a mod to change it.
 
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