Why CIOs are Saying No to Macs

Terry Olaes

Terry Olaes

I Used to be the [H] News Guy
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Though Apple has made significant attempts to break into the mainstream business computer world, the Mac is still on the outside with a mere 8% market share. Silicon.com queried a panel of CIOs to see why they aren’t championing the use of the Mac and Snow Leopard in the non-design workplace.

"Macs are appearing in more and more organisations. But this does not signal a major change in organisations' buying habits. In fact, while Apple is still popular in some niches in business, the IT department does not purchase or sanction many of the Macs that are gaining use in businesses. Instead, end users or businesses are buying them themselves," [Gartner VP Michael Silver] said.
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This is spot on. I am a Net Admin in a large retail company. We do not purchase any Macs for our users, however there are about 15 mac users in a total of 2500+ employees who have workstations/laptops, and they are mostly purchased out of pocket by the employee.

We also have a non tech support policy for anyone who wishes to use a mac in the workplace. If you want a mac to work in our network, yoou need to figure it out yourself.

Our CEO has also banned iphones for work issued phones since they lack security features we require for our employees, hence we use Blackberry enterprise.
 
That's because no respectful CIO would dare buy overpriced Mac's for their end users. Unless they are in the media/design business.
 
Remember folks, Apple computers = glorified Fisher-Price activity centers for adults.
 
4saken said:
This is spot on. I am a Net Admin in a large retail company. We do not purchase any Macs for our users, however there are about 15 mac users in a total of 2500+ employees who have workstations/laptops, and they are mostly purchased out of pocket by the employee.

We also have a non tech support policy for anyone who wishes to use a mac in the workplace. If you want a mac to work in our network, yoou need to figure it out yourself.

Our CEO has also banned iphones for work issued phones since they lack security features we require for our employees, hence we use Blackberry enterprise.
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I agree with you 100%. I am a mac user but only because the CEO at my company is and to be honest my Mac Pro workstation mostly runs windows 7 at work anyhow. As for the iPhones, it works for me for what I do but I personally have turned against it for work despite all the people wanting to use them at my job.
 
Most IT admins will be quick to complain about those pockets of Apple-users in their companies, largely because they're a pain to manage. The article mentions how Apple is becoming easier to use with corporate resources, but Apple has made zero effort to make the OS friendly to large-scale rollouts or support. Apple systems are still in the sneakernet support world of the 90s.

A short way of saying this is: Apple is a consumer product and has done nothing to make it corporate friendly. All of this thought that Apple wants into "mainstream" use or business is just media hyperbole, as Apple is not making any move to support such endeavors.

It does surprise me, though, since many companies still use XP and really do need to move on. Once companies recover from this recession, they will be, almost entirely, ready to purchase Windows 7 or the next gen of OS. Apple has made no effort to make themselves a viable option, though.
 
IMO I dont see many large corporate environments switching over to macs until they are more reasonable with their pricing. A very large majority of users in the corporate world just need to run email, spreadsheets and maybe some sort of database software, none of which requires an overpriced, overglorified mac. That and the sheer headache it would be to transition a large windows based network into a mac network just isn't worth the manpower or money, especially in this economy.
 
I donno if it was forgotten or never brought up but Mac has shit support for AD. So rolling out macs in a windows server farm is extremly costly. Honestly I'm not sure if apple has updated OSX's network code since Leapord.. i just don't spend that much time caring about mac's :D

Now imo if the IT Department had Novell farm then rolling out Mac's wouldn't be that big of a headache compared to a already stable windows domain.. but thats my 2 cents.

Correct me if i am wrong..:p
 
After all your computers upload all your proprietary information to be sold cheap to your competitors, its hard to remember that the 158th reload image is a mac and doesn't need it.
 
[RIP]Zeus;1034707010 said:
I donno if it was forgotten or never brought up but Mac has shit support for AD. So rolling out macs in a windows server farm is extremly costly. Honestly I'm not sure if apple has updated OSX's network code since Leapord.. i just don't spend that much time caring about mac's :D

Now imo if the IT Department had Novell farm then rolling out Mac's wouldn't be that big of a headache compared to a already stable windows domain.. but thats my 2 cents.

Correct me if i am wrong..:p
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They could use some flavor of Linux to do the networking instead of Windows servers. Remember Apple OSX is still based off of BSD. Even so, previous users are correct in saying that Apple has in no way shape or form seen fit to roll out any enterprise applications or support. Even if companies wanted to switch, they would be set back several generations in their enterprise functionality. You can introduce a few Macs here and there as individual systems, but even those are a pain. They are a security risk as well since you can't run a number of your PC security software on the Macs.
 
Where I work, we're seeing Macs(10.5.8 + 10.6) having issues with wireless connectivity on the universities 802.1x wireless network. The level two guys have said it's definitely the Macs too. Something about not moving to a stronger signal when one is available. I don't know enough to go to into details but it seems to be legit. I've also heard(uncertain if true) that the solid aluminum chassis reflects the wireless card RF and makes it a lot less effective. Not sure.... but I do know we have a lot of Mac users complaining of wireless connectivity issues while windows laptops just work(wireless card driver update at the most).

I used to think Macs sucked when I knew nothing about them. Then when I first started working with them, I loved them. Now, after working with them over and over, I think they suck(disclaimer: my opinion).

I prefer Windows 7(and a right click). Although I would take a new Macbook Pro, but it would need a non-glossy screen, and run Windows 7 on it. Maybe run 10.6 in vmware, lol.

just my experience.:D
 
Hofy said:
Remember folks, Apple computers = glorified Fisher-Price activity centers for adults.
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Remember folks, PCs are malware-ridden, crash-prone, ugly virus boxes, eager to broadcast your personal info to all sorts of crafty criminals and to fail on you at the slightest instant.

See? I can make ridiculous, nonsensical statements rooted in ignorance and blind hatred, too!
 
Pyroja said:
Remember folks, PCs are malware-ridden, crash-prone, ugly virus boxes, eager to broadcast your personal info to all sorts of crafty criminals and to fail on you at the slightest instant.

See? I can make ridiculous, nonsensical statements rooted in ignorance and blind hatred, too!
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Good point, but I think the ignorance and blind hatred is more pointed to mac users in general and their attitudes, than the actually hardware.

I can't tell you how many people I know that are still on XP machines, and think there problems with be solved by switching to a mac when 90% of the time its user error.
 
Pyroja said:
Remember folks, PCs are malware-ridden, crash-prone, ugly virus boxes, eager to broadcast your personal info to all sorts of crafty criminals and to fail on you at the slightest instant.

See? I can make ridiculous, nonsensical statements rooted in ignorance and blind hatred, too!
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There may be a spot on the Apple marketing team available to you, you've pretty much summed up all the commercials...
 
Macs are making inroads into my company because of iPhone development.

Don't underestimate the halo effect of iPhone sales and app development...
 
Hmm, buy 3 Dells for 500 a pop....


Or...1 Mac for 1500

Lets just run those figures through the CEO and see why he won't convert to Mac Only.
 
Summary: price + compatibility = No Mac

I liked the Fisher Price comment above. That's about all it is (and I've had 15 different Macs).
 
Large companies? No way they move to Mac, and to be honest I doubt Apple wants them to. Why poke holes in the "it just works" ad campaign? Let Dell and HP fight it out for the shoestring IT department budgets. They are far more likely to keep making money hand over fist selling their $2500 all in ones to the CIO's artist son, or his Graphic Design student daughter. I can't imagine Apple has cared in the slightest they don't sell to corporate America where it's all to the lowest bidder and the lowest common denominator. They have huge profit margins on their hardware/software, why trade that in to be teetering on the edge of profitability like Dell/Compaq with building rotten hardware to meet a price point? I am sure it would increase there market penetration, all the while diluting their product and making all kinds of new problems for them. Smart move to stay out of it really, when you can charge 3x what Dell sells and have people line up to do it you don't bin that idea to have shiny Mac's on the receptionists desk.

Apple does just fine in the business segments they choose to compete in. Graphic design, Music production, Video production, Photography etc. I can't see them wanting to scrape the bottom of the barrel to sell Ford workstations to run email and Office 2007. Same reason they won't jump in on the Netbook craze. Why dilute your product when your selling an image? The image of being a smarter consumer, who is bucking the system. Put them on everyone's desktop and the air of exclusivity goes out the window, along with the huge profits they are making. If I am Steve Jobs, I can tell you I want no part of corporate IT with any meaningful market share. And if I did I'd just buy out Dell with a personal check.
 
[RIP]Zeus;1034707010 said:
I donno if it was forgotten or never brought up but Mac has shit support for AD. So rolling out macs in a windows server farm is extremly costly. Honestly I'm not sure if apple has updated OSX's network code since Leapord.. i just don't spend that much time caring about mac's :D

Now imo if the IT Department had Novell farm then rolling out Mac's wouldn't be that big of a headache compared to a already stable windows domain.. but thats my 2 cents.

Correct me if i am wrong..:p
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NoOther said:
They could use some flavor of Linux to do the networking instead of Windows servers. Remember Apple OSX is still based off of BSD. Even so, previous users are correct in saying that Apple has in no way shape or form seen fit to roll out any enterprise applications or support. Even if companies wanted to switch, they would be set back several generations in their enterprise functionality. You can introduce a few Macs here and there as individual systems, but even those are a pain. They are a security risk as well since you can't run a number of your PC security software on the Macs.
Click to expand...

This issue goes beyond macs as it affects linx and unix based systems. When it comes down to managment you really don't have competition to Active directory. You can tie together ldap with samba, cups, etc to get the basics down but they don't really compare to what the full active directory can do.

Untill apple either can build full AD support into the os they will have trouble in a lot of companies. Either that or someone needs to really come up with an all in one 3rd party solution that works cross platform.

This is one of the reasons exchange is so popular as well. You don't really have much that can compete with it.
 
swatbat said:
This issue goes beyond macs as it affects linx and unix based systems. When it comes down to managment you really don't have competition to Active directory. You can tie together ldap with samba, cups, etc to get the basics down but they don't really compare to what the full active directory can do.

Untill apple either can build full AD support into the os they will have trouble in a lot of companies. Either that or someone needs to really come up with an all in one 3rd party solution that works cross platform.

This is one of the reasons exchange is so popular as well. You don't really have much that can compete with it.
Click to expand...

Another reason we all seemed to have forgot, was Group Policy. I haven't come across anything that can compare or even beat what Group Policy can do for an entire copmany's domain(s).
 
swatbat said:
This issue goes beyond macs as it affects linx and unix based systems. When it comes down to managment you really don't have competition to Active directory. You can tie together ldap with samba, cups, etc to get the basics down but they don't really compare to what the full active directory can do.

Untill apple either can build full AD support into the os they will have trouble in a lot of companies. Either that or someone needs to really come up with an all in one 3rd party solution that works cross platform.

This is one of the reasons exchange is so popular as well. You don't really have much that can compete with it.
Click to expand...

[RIP]Zeus;1034708281 said:
Another reason we all seemed to have forgot, was Group Policy. I haven't come across anything that can compare or even beat what Group Policy can do for an entire copmany's domain(s).
Click to expand...

These reasons, along with the extra work that goes along with having to manage multiple OS's, are why Apple will remain on the sidelines in the business world for many years to come;
 
swatbat said:
This issue goes beyond macs as it affects linx and unix based systems. When it comes down to managment you really don't have competition to Active directory. You can tie together ldap with samba, cups, etc to get the basics down but they don't really compare to what the full active directory can do.

Untill apple either can build full AD support into the os they will have trouble in a lot of companies. Either that or someone needs to really come up with an all in one 3rd party solution that works cross platform.

This is one of the reasons exchange is so popular as well. You don't really have much that can compete with it.
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yep.
AD is by far and far and far and far etc etc the best LDAP implementation out there. Nothing OSS or other comes remotely close for interoperability for all aspects of your corporates infrastructure from intranet apps to office etc etc.
 
There's nothing really a Mac has to offer the business world. One could argue that Macs are more secure but malware isn't that big of a deal in a WELL managed corporate network.
 
[RIP]Zeus;1034707010 said:
I donno if it was forgotten or never brought up but Mac has shit support for AD. So rolling out macs in a windows server farm is extremly costly. Honestly I'm not sure if apple has updated OSX's network code since Leapord.. i just don't spend that much time caring about mac's :D

Now imo if the IT Department had Novell farm then rolling out Mac's wouldn't be that big of a headache compared to a already stable windows domain.. but thats my 2 cents.

Correct me if i am wrong..:p
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I haven't used the 3rd party Netware client for Mac in about 5 years, but it wasn't overall friendly to use or configure. The Linux world has moved far quicker in connecting to a E-Directory environment. I even helped write a wrapper to create new users on the fly. Used for a lab of Linux machines at a school. But 90% of Novell's utilities deal with Win32, so there's still much management to do by hand.
 
4saken said:
yep.
AD is by far and far and far and far etc etc the best LDAP implementation out there. Nothing OSS or other comes remotely close for interoperability for all aspects of your corporates infrastructure from intranet apps to office etc etc.
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*cough* E-Directory.

Zen is far easier to manage, configure and use than SMS/SCCM. I know IT departments forced to switch who still lament the loss of ZEN and the app launcher.
 
We have a few mac users at our office. When it comes to windows they are pretty clueless. They talk up mac this mac that, like they are pro's. Then they ask to connect to the citrix server, and you give them the address, they take over a week to figure out how to conntact to it. I won't support Macs at work, even though I have been contemplating getting one at home, I won't support them in the workplace. I also have my supervisors blessing to ignore any remote connectivity requests from a mac/iphone.
 
Makaveli@BETA said:
Good point, but I think the ignorance and blind hatred is more pointed to mac users in general and their attitudes, than the actually hardware.

I can't tell you how many people I know that are still on XP machines, and think there problems with be solved by switching to a mac when 90% of the time its user error.
Click to expand...

QFT. I get the "that wouldn't happen if you had a Mac" all the time. There was once that I let my battery drain completely, causing Windows to hibernate automatically; I then booted the computer thinking it was plugged in when it actually wasn't, causing it to completely die in the middle of starting. Well, I was unlucky that day, and the loss of power corrupted some system files, so I had to restore from an image backup. Sure enough, when I told my friend this story, she replied, "see! you should get a Mac." :rolleyes:
 
How often has XS site gone down, while it ran on an Apple server?. :)


all the reason have been said already.


Sure you could set up a linux network and get ride of AD /DC and everything else, and have fun hiring a Linux admin for twice the cost of a windows one.


it all comes down to cost!
 
HOCP4ME said:
QFT. I get the "that wouldn't happen if you had a Mac" all the time. There was once that I let my battery drain completely, causing Windows to hibernate automatically; I then booted the computer thinking it was plugged in when it actually wasn't, causing it to completely die in the middle of starting. Well, I was unlucky that day, and the loss of power corrupted some system files, so I had to restore from an image backup. Sure enough, when I told my friend this story, she replied, "see! you should get a Mac." :rolleyes:
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Funny thing about that is that the older powerpc apples had issues where if the clock battery got drained the computer wouldn't power on. All one had to do was remove the clock battery or better yet replace it. You wouldn't believe how many apples we use to fix where I worked by getting a battery off the shelf and replacing the clock battery in front of the customer.
 
RadCliffeX said:
Hmm, buy 3 Dells for 500 a pop....

Or...1 Mac for 1500

Lets just run those figures through the CEO and see why he won't convert to Mac Only.
Click to expand...

This is the center of the issue.

Add to that the fact that the CEO will come back and ask for you to get a couple quotes from different vendors and there's really no way to get any kind of competitive bids for Macs.

Without a way to demonstrate a monetary advantage to justify the cost in hardware and in finding/retraining Mac IT staff, no competent CTO is going to change over to Macs.
 
[RIP]Zeus;1034707010 said:
I donno if it was forgotten or never brought up but Mac has shit support for AD. So rolling out macs in a windows server farm is extremly costly. Honestly I'm not sure if apple has updated OSX's network code since Leapord.. i just don't spend that much time caring about mac's :D

Now imo if the IT Department had Novell farm then rolling out Mac's wouldn't be that big of a headache compared to a already stable windows domain.. but thats my 2 cents.

Correct me if i am wrong..:p
Click to expand...

Snow Leopard doesn't work in our Novell environment. There is a known issue that 10.6.1 didn't fix. Run a couple Xserves and everything is good. Our enterprise has about 3k+ Macs that I help support, ARD rocks. We use Filewave to manage software, so not a huge deal.
 
Ghettobox said:
Large companies? No way they move to Mac, and to be honest I doubt Apple wants them to. Why poke holes in the "it just works" ad campaign? Let Dell and HP fight it out for the shoestring IT department budgets. They are far more likely to keep making money hand over fist selling their $2500 all in ones to the CIO's artist son, or his Graphic Design student daughter. I can't imagine Apple has cared in the slightest they don't sell to corporate America where it's all to the lowest bidder and the lowest common denominator. They have huge profit margins on their hardware/software, why trade that in to be teetering on the edge of profitability like Dell/Compaq with building rotten hardware to meet a price point? I am sure it would increase there market penetration, all the while diluting their product and making all kinds of new problems for them. Smart move to stay out of it really, when you can charge 3x what Dell sells and have people line up to do it you don't bin that idea to have shiny Mac's on the receptionists desk.

Apple does just fine in the business segments they choose to compete in. Graphic design, Music production, Video production, Photography etc. I can't see them wanting to scrape the bottom of the barrel to sell Ford workstations to run email and Office 2007. Same reason they won't jump in on the Netbook craze. Why dilute your product when your selling an image? The image of being a smarter consumer, who is bucking the system. Put them on everyone's desktop and the air of exclusivity goes out the window, along with the huge profits they are making. If I am Steve Jobs, I can tell you I want no part of corporate IT with any meaningful market share. And if I did I'd just buy out Dell with a personal check.
Click to expand...

QFT and spot on x1000, best post of the thread.

Apple doesn't want to compete for the lowest bid in a large corporate environment. The premium consumer market and the professional media/audio/design market (Macs are ubiquitous in film production here) are all they really care about, and both markets are fine spending the cash on a premium product that is tailored very specifically towards them.

But for a massive corporation with tens of thousands of econobox workstation and cheap LCDs, as well as the support for all of that, they're more than happy letting companies like Dell and HP fight over the razor thin margins there.
 
az_max said:
*cough* E-Directory.

Zen is far easier to manage, configure and use than SMS/SCCM. I know IT departments forced to switch who still lament the loss of ZEN and the app launcher.
Click to expand...

Having used E-Directory, and its great, it still not nearly as manageable or flexible for integrated end-user apps etc as AD is. For an organization as large as ours, E directory would not cut it for us and all of our windows interoperabity. W/O completely reworking our whole companys end-user software/user/exchange/etc/etc it wouldnt be an option. Money not being any issue, i would choose a AD environment over any even if i were to start from scratch.

Money being an issue, however, i probably would work with E-Directory or other OSS ldap solutions.
 
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