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A good start I think would be to put Captchas on checkout. This will not out a lot of the botting activity. Its kinda shocking that Bestbuy and other retailers don't have that in the checkout system.I'm right there with you man, it puts retailers in a tough spot. I am sick of refreshing pages for cards that are just out of stock or coming soon. Its crazy that its WEEKS after and still nothing, but I'm also impatient. I really thought the 3090 with its price premium would be different but NOPE lol.
If bots can order with different emails and ship to whatever address they want (drop shipping), what would stop bots from buying all the pre-orders? Same issue just delayed further.
Only verified paypal email addresses? I wish I knew the solution for them.
A good start I think would be to put Captchas on checkout. This will not out a lot of the botting activity. Its kinda shocking that Bestbuy and other retailers don't have that in the checkout system.
Why can't we just place an order for a 3080 and it ships when the stock comes in? I am getting tired of playing these games waiting for notifications only to see it's out of stock again... I am starting to get more and more excited for Big Navi...
Retailers don't do want to do that unless they know they'll get enough stock to fulfill it. They know they can't possibly fulfill the demand with upcoming shipments so they won't do it.
I did see that EVGA are doing something like that on their store though. You sign up do be notified and if you're next up in the queue you have 5 hours to buy once a card becomes available.
Because they have no idea when they're going to get stock I suppose.
I'm just holding on to my 2080Ti and waiting for the 20GB 3080's now, 6mos to whenever.
Not only that, but retailers/etailers probably don't want to manage hundreds or even thousands of back orders. That's a recipe for disaster.
It just affects users honestly, good programmers can break it: https://blog.shapesecurity.com/2017/07/12/how-cybercriminals-bypass-captcha/
Because, if you placed an order, would you pay now or just pay to stay in line, or pay when it's available? EVGA started doing something similar with their notifications, but nobody else cares. They sell them as fast as they get them, why would they bother trying to make things better for their customers? I can't imagine being on a 5 month waiting list would really appease people either, lol. I think it's hard to take pre-orders when you don't have a clue when you can fill them. Could you imagine if you paid for the newest cyberpunk 2077 or w/e and didn't get it for 3-4 months? You'd be trying to get your money back in 10 days. Also, it's not good to take money in one year and then deliver products to fullfill the next year, it just muddies the waters with profits vs costs when they aren't in the same year (especially by large amounts).Why can't we just place an order for a 3080 and it ships when the stock comes in? I am getting tired of playing these games waiting for notifications only to see it's out of stock again... I am starting to get more and more excited for Big Navi...
Yeah, even if it's not perfect, at least TRY something, lol. Doing absolutely nothing is not a good look.Scalpers arent necessarily the programmers, they buy bots
If having captchas break 50% of retail bots then that's good
If the other 50% use captcha solving services then that adds to the fee for using the bot. As captchas become more difficult to solve, the cost for solving services should go up, the cost of the bot should go up, and so on. You'll always have people capable of defeating the system, but the idea is to limit the scope of what's required to defeat your system
Captcha solving isn't as easy as some like to make it out and any defense is better than no defense
It's neither here nor there, they passed the buck to Best Buy, lol. They are no longer selling FE's on their site and will instead let everyone continually F5 and ask Best Buy when they will have them in stock instead. Capcha was to complicated for a simple company like nvidia, LOL.A new anti scalping measure is most effective shortly after it is introduced. If Nvidia was to implement an anti bot advanced CAPTCHA measure it would keep out some more casual macroing / botting / sneaker groups and careful order review would be nice too.
I think a queueing system like EVGA introduced and etailers in EU and Australia seem to have is great and would be very welcome at BB, Amazon etc. in the US. I don’t mind being told you are 3000th in line - I can always cancel presumably.
This is one avenue I think best buy is missing, if they did pre-orders in store that required full payment it would work in the favor of the people that would use them more often than scalper. Double so if they limited the purchase per address,name, card things. But I feel they don't want that, they want the hype and chaosIn person reservations should be a thing. If I prepay, and get on the waiting list, it should be no issue for the retailers. But they don’t want that. They want you visiting their stores and e-stores often because you might buy something else while you’re there.
Because they have no idea when they're going to get stock I suppose.
I'm just holding on to my 2080Ti and waiting for the 20GB 3080's now, 6mos to whenever.
If Tesla and General Motors can figure out how to let you back order customized cars then Nvidia can surely figure out how to let people back order a one size fits all gpu.
People were on backorder for multiple years for model 3s. You won't want a 3080 in 3 years.If Tesla and General Motors can figure out how to let you back order customized cars then Nvidia can surely figure out how to let people back order a one size fits all gpu.
They can but for one they are not the main supplier, it will not stop scalers and you could end up waiting months if not years.
People were on backorder for multiple years for model 3s. You won't want a 3080 in 3 years.
You’re confusing product and logistics. It would not take years. Does it take years when you order a laptop from say Dell? Nope. You get in a queue and get an estimated delivery date.
1. Nvidia is the main supplier of Founders Editions. They know exactly what they ordered from their sub contractor just as Dell knows what they ordered. They also are the main supplier of chips to third parties. So they know what they are distributing.
2. Scalpers are currently reliant on bots that catch supply drops in seconds. EVGA has created a waiting list of sorts. In this case each company would have time to validate the orders because you would get on a build que. Right now the bots have the advantage.
3. It would not take years. Moreover, if Nvidia doesn’t expect availability until December, and bots stole the first 3 early drops, how is getting an assured ship date a month or two away worse than hoping and praying you’re hitting F5 or have your own bot running when a drop happens? And then hoping the cart system works...etc etc.
Good lord... manufactures have done waiting and order lists for centuries for everything from houses to electronics. It’s not a new concept. And I mentioned Tesla because it came to mind. But it doesn’t have to be Tesla. How about Toyota? Or say Ranger Boats. It’s even MORE complicated with cars or say boats because of the parts involved and yet they manage to get your custom car made within a few weeks.
Because Tesla allowed orders far in advance to raise capital. Most cars take only a few weeks. A GPU is nowhere close to the difficulty of a car to produce. What you said was funny, but a gross misunderstanding of the logistics involved.
You have to choose how you are going to handle forecasting and deferred revenue (if collecting payment now) as well as recognition/bad debt/returns/etc with all of that. If your internal accounting is complex (and Nvidia's certainly is, you can read the 10K), you may decide that doing so is MORE complex than just letting people order them as they arrive - especially if you underestimated demand (possible), don't care (also possible), or have some alternative plan (also possible). From a business perspective, there's all sorts of 'weirdness' that you can get into with that. GM/Dell/Etc all operate ~expecting~ significant deferred revenue and have that built into their accounting systems (and Nvidia might too - I'm not digging through the entire 10K to try and figure it out right now, they may just not care) and thus do so regularly.
Not saying this is currently what's happening, but it's certainly a plausible explanation, given everything.
And may not (from a full-fledged card perspective) be a huge source of revenue. I don't know the breakdown between "chips sold" and "cards sold" in their bottom line - especially since Nvidia has a LOT of other lines of business too. Anyone dug through their 10k recently?
You’re confusing product and logistics. It would not take years. Does it take years when you order a laptop from say Dell? Nope. You get in a queue and get an estimated delivery date.
1. Nvidia is the main supplier of Founders Editions. They know exactly what they ordered from their sub contractor just as Dell knows what they ordered. They also are the main supplier of chips to third parties. So they know what they are distributing.
2. Scalpers are currently reliant on bots that catch supply drops in seconds. EVGA has created a waiting list of sorts. In this case each company would have time to validate the orders because you would get on a build que. Right now the bots have the advantage.
3. It would not take years. Moreover, if Nvidia doesn’t expect availability until December, and bots stole the first 3 early drops, how is getting an assured ship date a month or two away worse than hoping and praying you’re hitting F5 or have your own bot running when a drop happens? And then hoping the cart system works...etc etc.
Good lord... manufactures have done waiting and order lists for centuries for everything from houses to electronics. It’s not a new concept. And I mentioned Tesla because it came to mind. But it doesn’t have to be Tesla. How about Toyota? Or say Ranger Boats. It’s even MORE complicated with cars or say boats because of the parts involved and yet they manage to get your custom car made within a few weeks.
I did not mention Tesla anywhere in there? I was talking about Nvidia chips to the full Founders Edition cards.Comparing the difficulty of Tesla’s vehicle design to Nvidia’s consumer GPU is laughable. Tesla is not only designing, testing, and implementing their own chips and boards, they are also building the entire car around them. Hundreds of moving parts in addition in addition to regulatory testing and approval far exceeding that of a GPU card.
Nvidia already has the logistics in place due to their professional, server, and AI sales. Adapting that to their consumer division is not a tall leap when you have a substantial amount brand damage occurring because an outside source is directly harming your customers. You can either take administrative action or legal action to stop the bleed. Since laws currently don’t support legal action, it comes down to administrative.
Someone else did. I was wrapping that into the answer. I should have been more specific.I did not mention Tesla anywhere in there? I was talking about Nvidia chips to the full Founders Edition cards.
What is damaging their brand? Scalpers? Not their problem. Doesn't hurt Reebok, Nike, Banksy, etc... They're beholden to the stockholder, who's over the moon right now, and the board that is currently bathing in dollar bills.
The owners? They're happy. The folks who still want to buy one? Most of us will still buy one. The folks who can't afford one? Not customers. The folks who are irritated at the scalpers? So...?
Trust me, I wish I could back order one too, but it's not always that easy. And they don't particularly have a notable business reason to change their current plan - they're selling every chip they can make, and raking in cash hand over fist.