Why are Collector's Editions of PC games still including DVDs and not Blu-rays?

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Xizer

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
227
Seriously. What is up with this crap? It's 2010. Everyone hardcore enough to be buying your power-hungry modern PC game has Blu-ray by now. ESPECIALLY if they're hardcore enough to be buying some overpriced "collector's edition" version of the game.

It's not like Blu-ray is ridiculously overpriced media to burn on now. Consumers can get BD-Rs for $2. You can imagine how much cheaper a big game studio can burn a copy for.

And it's not like it's expensive to film those little "making of" movies. You can get a 1080p camera for under $200 these days. Sure, it'll be crappy, but even crappy high definition is better than standard definition.

But fine, let me just go with the commonly regurgitated argument: there's too many scrubs out there with only DVD drives so developers have to punish everybody and put out a DVD to cater to the lowest common denominator. Okay... then what is wrong with slapping a nice 1080p encoded video file on a DVD9? You could comfortably fit 1 hr 30 min of video content @ 1080p using the x264 codec, and again, anyone with a PC powerful enough to run that modern game has a PC powerful enough to decode that video file.

All I'm trying to say here is that if game developers expect me to pay a premium for their product, I expect to get some premium content in return instead of ancient 1990s technology.
 
I bought my blue ray player (for my PC) just before Christmas. It was $80.

Some of the movies have been a huge disappointment. The Pianist, for example, looks about the same on blu ray as it does on DVD. Other movies, such as Star Trek: The Movie, have been fantastic. The best one I've seen so far though - Avatar. Just mind blowing.

I'm happy enough with my blu ray player - but not enough films really benefit much from it. The jump to blu ray wasn't nearly as profound as the jump from VHS to DVD. As far as gaming is concerned, well, it's just a matter of time, isn't it. I wonder how many gamers have blu ray drives in their systems. I'll bet it's not even 5%.

EDIT: Is it blu or blue?
 
DVD burners cost under $20, Blu-Ray readers cost $60, and Blu-Ray burners cost over $150, that's why. Blu-Ray is definitely not mainstream in PCs yet.
 
I still only have a DVD burner in my gaming PC. I'd suggest the majority of gamers still only have DVD burners.
 
1. its blu

2. for the reasons stated. theres no point to get a blu ray disc drive for pc if you have an hdtv and blu ray player. i considered one, but it would hardly get used.
 
noobs...

And to think I'm still playing games that the installation takes multiple (up to seven, I believe) CDs... Not even DVDs...

I have some games that are 16GB+ installed... But I have 'em through Steam...

Since I don't want Blu-ray anything, I haven't had a need to buy a BD-ROM (or whatever they are called) drive, let alone a burner... Any future back-ups are going to HDs anyway...
 
So we're supposed to just deal with this crappy looking video forever because there's still too many gamers out there still stuck in the stone age? It's shameful. PC has always been about the cutting edge; leaving the old guy behind. Why is video the exception?

I mean, YouTube is better quality than DVD these days. YouTube. I still don't see why including an HD video file on the DVD isn't a viable option instead of using horrible 20 year old technology and doing a regular VIDEO_TS formatted DVD with crappy SD MPEG video.
 
Xizer said:
So we're supposed to just deal with this crappy looking video forever because there's still too many gamers out there still stuck in the stone age? It's shameful. PC has always been about the cutting edge; leaving the old guy behind. Why is video the exception?

I mean, YouTube is better quality than DVD these days. YouTube. I still don't see why including an HD video file on the DVD isn't a viable option instead of using horrible 20 year old technology and doing a regular VIDEO_TS formatted DVD with crappy SD MPEG video.
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are we talking about games or movies? :confused:
 
BD-ROM drives are still around $70CDN, at best, for a 4X from where I shop. A decent 10X BD-ROM/DVDRW Combo will run you $100CDN+. On the other hand, I can purchase a DVDRW drive for $20CDN and many folks like myself also already own a PS3/Standalone Blu-Ray player.

Those are just a couple of reasons why most computers are not yet equipped with BD drives and why PC game developers will likely stick with DVD media and digital distribution for the vast majority of their software.

When the BD-ROM drive sinks into sub-$50 dollar range it might become a little more popular but with services like Steam churning out great games at fantastic prices via digital distribution, I personally feel like optical media is a dying format; especially on PC.

From the above post, as far as BluRay being a joke...well, it looks and sounds fantastic so I don't know what you're trying to say.
 
mnewxcv said:
are we talking about games or movies? :confused:
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He lost me a bit too. After reading over the OP and his followup, I think he's annoyed at the low quality of video in current games, and wants to see hours of full 1920x1080 video cutscenes in his games.
 
I haven't installed a PC game from a disc in probably two years. I would rather see them go digital distribution rather than Blu-ray discs. I would be fine with them moving to blu ray discs for collectors editions but I would not be buying a blu ray player for my main PC for the fact that I don't want or need discs anymore. In any case there should not be any restraints on the video files over digital distribution.
 
evilsofa said:
He lost me a bit too. After reading over the OP and his followup, I think he's annoyed at the low quality of video in current games, and wants to see hours of full 1920x1080 video cutscenes in his games.
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yeah i was thinking that may be what he means, but that doesnt have anything to do with the media....just the files. they could throw in another dvd for the install and it could fix his 'problem'

edit: but then he talks about 1080p cameras....so.... no idea
 
WabeWalker said:
Some of the movies have been a huge disappointment. The Pianist, for example, looks about the same on blu ray as it does on DVD.
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The Pianist has no special effects... so i'm surprised that you saw no difference. I only buy movies on BluRay that I know are going to look amazing. Like King Kong, Avatar, 300, and other movies which require lots of special effects.
 
snaggletooth said:
BD-ROM drives are still around $70CDN, at best, for a 4X from where I shop. A decent 10X BD-ROM/DVDRW Combo will run you $100CDN+. On the other hand, I can purchase a DVDRW drive for $20CDN and many folks like myself also already own a PS3/Standalone Blu-Ray player.

Those are just a couple of reasons why most computers are not yet equipped with BD drives and why PC game developers will likely stick with DVD media and digital distribution for the vast majority of their software.

When the BD-ROM drive sinks into sub-$50 dollar range it might become a little more popular but with services like Steam churning out great games at fantastic prices via digital distribution, I personally feel like optical media is a dying format; especially on PC.

From the above post, as far as BluRay being a joke...well, it looks and sounds fantastic so I don't know what you're trying to say.
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Yeah, out here in Australia BluRay players start at a bit over $100, where you can get a DVD burner for less than $40 if you look.

PC is about scaling down to the low end users as much as its about pushing the limits. As such you wont see the move to bluray until most PCs are equipped them, which wont be until you see them about half the price they are now.
 
Also, licensing fees for printing on blu-ray are astronomical. DVDs are a bigger market. Most gamers(people..) still don't have blu ray players - myself included.
 
Many (most?) don't have Blu-ray drives in their computers. Even if they did, gamers would rather install the entire game to the hard drive anyway which eliminates the advantage over DVD (disk swapping). Steam takes things a step further and eliminates the disk entirely.

Or are you talking about the video extras that often come with collector's editions such as making-of video and documentaries? Same deal there - many people don't have a Blu-ray player. Remember that not all gamers - 'hardcore' or otherwise - care about Blu-rays.
 
I don't see how you can possibly be a hardcore gamer who spergs out about Eyefinity and 2560x1600 resolutions and the latest $800 graphics card... and then be perfectly happy with all your video being at a resolution of 720x480.

It is mind-boggling. How could you possibly be a PC gamer who is happy with DVD video?
 
oh man, hes a noobie. lets hope hes not an attention whore thread crapper post spammer bot licker.
 
You're assuming that every PC gamer is a hardcore gamer and cares enough about Blu-ray to get a player for his/her PC.
 
Xizer said:
I don't see how you can possibly be a hardcore gamer who spergs out about Eyefinity and 2560x1600 resolutions and the latest $800 graphics card... and then be perfectly happy with all your video being at a resolution of 720x480.

It is mind-boggling. How could you possibly be a PC gamer who is happy with DVD video?
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I spend very little time looking at cut-scenes, and frankly I'd be happier to see games without them than see games with higher-quality versions of them. What exactly would a Blu-Ray drive offer my gaming rig? Nothing, as far as I can tell. As it is I hardly even make use of the DVD drive.
 
I prefer in-game movies rendered with the game engine as opposed to pre-rendered ones anyway. They scale with your hardware, whereas a video will look terrible by comparison a few years down the road. The example that sticks out most to me is FarCry (original) - Wow were those FMV's terrible compared to the actual game graphics, even at release.

The only place I see for Blu-ray drives is in a media center-PC that spends a majority of its time connected to a HDTV playing movies. Not in a gaming system.
 
Xizer said:
I don't see how you can possibly be a hardcore gamer who spergs out about Eyefinity and 2560x1600 resolutions and the latest $800 graphics card... and then be perfectly happy with all your video being at a resolution of 720x480.

It is mind-boggling. How could you possibly be a PC gamer who is happy with DVD video?
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What the hell resolution do you use? 720x480 isnt a normal resolution...

Beyond that, DVDs for games are used for storage of compressed files, not as a media disc with uncompressed video and audio. Game DVDs are effectively like a massive zip file. When you install it, you're unzipping data to your hard drive. That data can be ANYTHING. It can be video at 1920x1080 or 3280x1200 or even something as outrageous as 120458738927x398745873894789362789. It can be any quality. There is no limitation when its a storage device as it isnt outputting to a video device through specific hardware.
 
Somebody above made a good point about cut-scenes though. Blu-ray would fix that up. I remember seeing cutscenes for the first time in the early 90's and thinking, wow, maybe one day games will actually look like that.

These days the cutscenes are often much poorer than the game engines themselves. Take Just Cause 2 for example. You exit the low-resolution, fuzzy cutscene and enter a shockingly detailed and crisp world. The cutscenes look god awful in comparison with the actual game.

Surely that's a DVD limitation problem, is it not?
 
Xizer said:
I don't see how you can possibly be a hardcore gamer who spergs out about Eyefinity and 2560x1600 resolutions and the latest $800 graphics card... and then be perfectly happy with all your video being at a resolution of 720x480.

It is mind-boggling. How could you possibly be a PC gamer who is happy with DVD video?
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Not to mention, HDCP doesn't work over eyefinity, so no encrypted bluray content for me :(
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1518979 <-- has a similar issue.
Anyhow, I have never seen the need for an intermediary content delivery format, since BluRay is now (has to) compete against digital downloads, in the games market.
 
From what I gather from the OP's posts is that he is talking about the Extra DVD that some Collector Version games come with that have the Making of the Game and various other extras in DVD video format.

I personally only have 1 Collector Version that had a DVD, it was Halo 3 that came with the Helmet.
 
Xizer said:
I don't see how you can possibly be a hardcore gamer who spergs out about Eyefinity and 2560x1600 resolutions and the latest $800 graphics card... and then be perfectly happy with all your video being at a resolution of 720x480.

It is mind-boggling. How could you possibly be a PC gamer who is happy with DVD video?
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"Hardcore" gamers only make up a smallish percentage of "normal" gamers, and of the "hardcore" gamers, only a very small percentage are the type who would splurge on an $800 video card or an eyefinity set up. I'm guessing most gamers who spend $2000+ on their rigs probably do have bluray players... however that's only a tiny percentage of gamers, even on [H] it'd be a small percentage let alone the big wide world of non-computer-nerds.

Then on top of that, who ever said a "gamer" also needs to be a videophile of some sort? Gaming and watching videos only have a passing similarity in that they both require looking at a screen :p
 
WabeWalker said:
You exit the low-resolution, fuzzy cutscene and enter a shockingly detailed and crisp world. The cutscenes look god awful in comparison with the actual game.
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Crysis is a damn good example also. Fire up the game and look at the pre-rendered, fuzzy, low resolution aliased clip. Makes you think WTF.

Edit: Zepher, yes that's what he's talking about. Can't believe no one pointed that out earlier, although OP is confusing.

Another reason besides the billion listed already is that most collectors editions, are well, limited in supply. When you only make so much of one product, the percentage of people that would be able to watch that blu-ray would be even lower. Teh F*ck would they do that for? Dvd's can still look good, just mainly depends on the source that recorded it derrrr....
 
WabeWalker said:
Somebody above made a good point about cut-scenes though. Blu-ray would fix that up. I remember seeing cutscenes for the first time in the early 90's and thinking, wow, maybe one day games will actually look like that.

These days the cutscenes are often much poorer than the game engines themselves. Take Just Cause 2 for example. You exit the low-resolution, fuzzy cutscene and enter a shockingly detailed and crisp world. The cutscenes look god awful in comparison with the actual game.

Surely that's a DVD limitation problem, is it not?
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If you read what I said above you, no, it's not. A DVD is a storage medium. I can store ANYTHING. Just like a hard drive. If the dev wants to compress a 1080p video into it, they can.

What you're thinking of is uncompressed video and audio as is usually on a DVD, so yes it is limited if you want a video DVD that can play in a DVD player for TV. Else, you can compress any quality video on it and extract it onto a PC to watch.
 
Xizer said:
So we're supposed to just deal with this crappy looking video forever because there's still too many gamers out there still stuck in the stone age?
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Stone age? I don't even buy boxed PC games anymore with the exception of Blizzard games every now and then.

I have a fairly high end PC and I don't have any desire to put a bluray drive in at this point. When burners and bluray media come down in price the market will adapt.
 
Spiko said:
When burners and bluray media come down in price the market will adapt.
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I don't even think this is probable (with all due respect). For the majority of gamers going forward, Steam and download services will be the norm and Blu-Ray will be just left out of the media content delivery for games. I think it will have a small time in the sun for movies but for the few gamers who live where it would just be ridiculous to download a game on their connection, digital distribution will be king.
 
Xizer said:
I don't see how you can possibly be a hardcore gamer who spergs out about Eyefinity and 2560x1600 resolutions and the latest $800 graphics card... and then be perfectly happy with all your video being at a resolution of 720x480.

It is mind-boggling. How could you possibly be a PC gamer who is happy with DVD video?
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ummm all my movies are 1080p, stored on my hard drive, and all I have is a DVD burner...
 
Playing blu-ray on the computer is an exercise in annoyance anyways. I bought a bd-rom early last year, but no support for the player software in W7 and they wanted $100 to upgrade when you can buy a full blu-ray player for that now (fuck that). I'll stick with my PS3 for watching blu-ray content tyvm.

As for the making of videos, there is generally nothing in them that will get any benefit of a HD presentation anyways. In game cut-scenes? Blizzard still tends to use lower resolutions on those anyways. Interviews with developers? Nah, don't need to see those in HD.
 
Xizer said:
I don't see how you can possibly be a hardcore gamer who spergs out about Eyefinity and 2560x1600 resolutions and the latest $800 graphics card... and then be perfectly happy with all your video being at a resolution of 720x480.

It is mind-boggling. How could you possibly be a PC gamer who is happy with DVD video?
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Excluded middle?
 
ScreamingBroccoli said:
Because there is practically no reason for anybody to have a BD-ROM in their computer, 'hardcore' or not.
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bingo.


My HTPC includes one, but that is because HP configured it that way (it was the only quad core slimline offering @ Frys, at the time).
 
I've used an optical drive around twice in the last few months, and trust me...I game:

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197963790687/games?tab=all

Hollywood hasn't produced much of anything I think is worth owning on disk in a long time, and while it may reduce someone from 2-3 disks to 1 disk for game installs, what's the point aside from that?

BR drive adoption is nowhere near high enough to eliminate DVD's from distribution.
 
Most games don't take up more than a DVD. Also, digital distribution is going to ace optical media in only a few years. The last physical copy of a PC game I've bought was back in 2007, and the only physical media I have bought since that time have been the installation discs for Windows 7, OS X, and Final Cut Studio. FCS is the only thing that would have benefitted from Blu Ray, and only if you wanted to install the massive media libraries for DVD Studio Pro, Soundtrack, and Motion, none of which I installed.

No point given the number of PCs with a BR drives, combined with the size of games. Look at how long it took for publishers took to go from CD to DVD, and this was when 99% of users had DVD drives and the size of games more than justified the larger media. I've had Blu Ray in my PC since 2007 but I also realize that I'm in an extreme minority.

I think Blu Ray is the holy grail as far as watching movies, but that is something I do in my living room on a 60" plasma, not on my desk in a 24" or 27" LCD. Optical media is dying on computers.
 
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