Why are banana plugs prohibited in Europe?

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milkweg

[H]ard|Gawd
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Sep 6, 2007
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Bought an Onkyo AV receiver today and while looking in the manual section for speaker hookup it told you how to use banana plugs but it also mentioned that banana plugs are prohibited in Europe? Why is that?
 
Haha...I shouldn't laugh because obviously some numbnuts have done exactly that and fried their testicles.
 
European electric wall plugs are round, and the same size of a standard banana plug.
 
Yes we in the UK were not too happy about this as we have a totally different (and I may add far superior) power socket and plug setup with square pins and also the socket has a covering mechanism that only opens up access to the live and neutral points once the longer earth pin has gone in. This saves a baby sticking a knitting needle in the live socket etc. Oh and it has a proper fuse as well. Apparently the eurozone is always hinting at making us switch to their lower standard but if you visit say France or Spain all you see is euro sockets hanging off walls with wires on show. Elcectrical safety isnt that good in mainland europe. Have to say the number of electrical sockets I see in bathrooms in the US concerns me too!!

As for hifi gear, a lot of manufacturers have found a way around it anyway. They fit the new style sockets but if you unscrew them, what do you find? Oh that looks just like...a banana socket!
 
I misread the subtitle and thought it said "Why are banana SLUGS prohibited in europe?" the answer to that question would probably be it throws off the balance of the ecosystem.:D
 
daglesj said:
Yes we in the UK were not too happy about this as we have a totally different (and I may add far superior) power socket and plug setup with square pins and also the socket has a covering mechanism that only opens up access to the live and neutral points once the longer earth pin has gone in. This saves a baby sticking a knitting needle in the live socket etc. Oh and it has a proper fuse as well. Apparently the eurozone is always hinting at making us switch to their lower standard but if you visit say France or Spain all you see is euro sockets hanging off walls with wires on show. Elcectrical safety isnt that good in mainland europe. Have to say the number of electrical sockets I see in bathrooms in the US concerns me too!!

As for hifi gear, a lot of manufacturers have found a way around it anyway. They fit the new style sockets but if you unscrew them, what do you find? Oh that looks just like...a banana socket!
Click to expand...

Outlets in the states are GFI (ground fault interrupter) if used near a water source such as sink either in a kitchen or bathroom. It's code. This precludes your radio falling into the sink and killing you whilst washing your hands or whatnot. We're not quite that dense.
 
On Polk speakers (and I am guessing other speakers with binding posts that can fit banana plugs) you can take out the cap on top of the binding post and plug them in.
 
heh this is the strangest thread ever :D

anyways my only concern when i travel back to europe one day is what do i need to plug in my laptop?

my headphones will go into my laptop or zune :cool:
 
Europeans might also ban the use of a penis, because someone might put it in a hole it wasn't intended to. :rolleyes:
 
I'd have to agree with the other dude that UK sockets are far superior, not just because I am from the UK, but having seen US/Europes and the UK's setup I would have to agree that the Uk's setup is the most secure in terms of safety...
 
EVIL-SCOTSMAN said:
I'd have to agree with the other dude that UK sockets are far superior, not just because I am from the UK, but having seen US/Europes and the UK's setup I would have to agree that the Uk's setup is the most secure in terms of safety...
Click to expand...

US is still more safe though as it is 115v....it does not kill you if you get shocked liked in other countries with higher voltages like the UK. Its not fun, but I have been shocked before and it is just a wake me up in the US. Now you can also argue that the 220 has the advantage of being more efficient (it loses less power over a length of wire compared to 115v), but it is also much more dangerous.

It is scary to be an electrician or work with electricity in the UK and Europe as one wrong move and you could die...115 is much safer from that regard. That is also why the outlets are more secure in the UK, one wrong move and you are dead there!
 
Grentz said:
US is still more safe though as it is 115v....it does not kill you if you get shocked liked in other countries with higher voltages like the UK. Its not fun, but I have been shocked before and it is just a wake me up in the US. Now you can also argue that the 220 has the advantage of being more efficient (it loses less power over a length of wire compared to 115v), but it is also much more dangerous.

It is scary to be an electrician or work with electricity in the UK and Europe as one wrong move and you could die...115 is much safer from that regard. That is also why the outlets are more secure in the UK, one wrong move and you are dead there!
Click to expand...

Higher voltage is not a major factor determining the intensity of the shock. Where you put your foots and the ambient humidity is much more of a threat. People are so misinformed about those things ...
 
noxlord said:
Higher voltage is not a major factor determining the intensity of the shock. Where you put your foots and the ambient humidity is much more of a threat. People are so misinformed about those things ...
Click to expand...

Also, the current as well. I got shocked with 1,000s of volts today, too bad it was just static electricity.
 
Grentz said:
US is still more safe though as it is 115v....it does not kill you if you get shocked liked in other countries with higher voltages like the UK. Its not fun, but I have been shocked before and it is just a wake me up in the US. Now you can also argue that the 220 has the advantage of being more efficient (it loses less power over a length of wire compared to 115v), but it is also much more dangerous.

It is scary to be an electrician or work with electricity in the UK and Europe as one wrong move and you could die...115 is much safer from that regard. That is also why the outlets are more secure in the UK, one wrong move and you are dead there!
Click to expand...

I'd have to disagree, as I have shocked myself direct from the 240v current and never died, even when I was a child and stuck my fingers into a empty lightbulb socket which had 2 prongs that I pushed down. I am not saying it cant kill ya, all I am saying is that I have shocked myself in all about 10 times over the years and although it is a fucking horrible feeling, it has never killed me or done any lasting damage that a 5 minute sit down didnt cure.

Also as one person says, its not some much about the volts, its the amps that will kill ya quicker, the more the amps, the worse it gets.
 
I know its not so much about volt as it is amps, but the 220 is much more deadly.

I have a friend who is an electrician and he has said it over and over that the 220 stuff is just scary to work with (220 is in service lines and higher voltage devices in the US). He has been shocked by it as well, but he also has known people who have died from being shocked by 220 but not any that have died from 115.
 
noxlord said:
Higher voltage is not a major factor determining the intensity of the shock. Where you put your foots and the ambient humidity is much more of a threat. People are so misinformed about those things ...
Click to expand...

Yes, and given the same foot position and ambient humidity levels, an electrical shock from a 220V source is much worse than from a 110V source because the 220V can allow more current to go through your body.
 
Rix2357 said:
Yes, and given the same foot position and ambient humidity levels, an electrical shock from a 220V source is much worse than from a 110V source because the 220V can allow more current to go through your body.
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But, what amperage is the 220v source?
 
Isn't the American 120v AC and the European 220v DC? I would think that also would make the 220v worse.
 
montypythizzle said:
But, what amperage is the 220v source?
Click to expand...

Very well, I shall explain further. Given that your body uses electrical signals on the scale of microAmps, and millivolts, it doesn't matter if that 220V is a 2A circuit and the 110V is a 10A circuit because to your body, at some point will limit the amount of current going through your body due to the relationship between the total resistance that you present from the current source to the earth which is ground "neutral". And I guarantee you that any of these typical household power circuits provide more than enough amperage for a nice zing and if I'm a betting man and somehow found myself in a torture chamber with the choice of being zapped with 220V vs. 110V, I'll will most graciously let you have the 220V and I'll take the 110V every single time.

The higher the voltage, the more current that can be pushed through your body. Another case in point, under a typical conditions, I doubt we can really squeeze a 1.5V battery or 9V battery hard enough against our skin to feel a shock (I suppose if you had masochistic tendencies, then I guess you could push them hard enough that you started bleeding and created a lower resistance contact point). However, a Taser uses those same batteries, and converts the voltage to a couple of thousand volts to create that nice electrocution feel. Hence, voltage does matter and the higher the voltage, the nastier the shock.
 
Rix2357 said:
Another case in point, under a typical conditions, I doubt we can really squeeze a 1.5V battery or 9V battery hard enough against our skin to feel a shock (I suppose if you had masochistic tendencies, then I guess you could push them hard enough that you started bleeding and created a lower resistance contact point). However, a Taser uses those same batteries, and converts the voltage to a couple of thousand volts to create that nice electrocution feel. Hence, voltage does matter and the higher the voltage, the nastier the shock.
Click to expand...

Ever hold a 9v against your tongue :p

Voltage does matter, and voltage stings. It's the amperage that kills you though.
 
Hurdler said:
Isn't the American 120v AC and the European 220v DC? I would think that also would make the 220v worse.
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No, dc is horrible for long distances. It was first used in the Us but got replaced by ac since dc current doesn't travel very far at all.

Ever hold a 9v against your tongue
Click to expand...
yes, I used to do it for fun :p
 
Where does all this talk of 220v come from, I thought we were speaking about UK and US mains volatge, which in the UK its 240v but in reality its 250v and in the states its 115/110

F@@K the mainland Euro's, they dont count :p

before the Eurocrats start getting boners, I is only joking.






















No am not ;)
 
squares said:
I misread the subtitle and thought it said "Why are banana SLUGS prohibited in europe?" the answer to that question would probably be it throws off the balance of the ecosystem.:D
Click to expand...

So did I. I was like...is this by the same guy who posted the "CRUST" thread earlier? Ew.
 
EVIL-SCOTSMAN said:
Where does all this talk of 220v come from, I thought we were speaking about UK and US mains volatge, which in the UK its 240v but in reality its 250v and in the states its 115/110

F@@K the mainland Euro's, they dont count :p

before the Eurocrats start getting boners, I is only joking.
Click to expand...
Don't know where you live but its 120v (121 with a multimeter) where I live. (Utah)
 
My user name should give you a big clue asto where I live, I dunno the exact V's of usa, but I am just going by previous posts where US residents mention 110 and 115v
 
Grentz said:
US is still more safe though as it is 115v....it does not kill you if you get shocked liked in other countries with higher voltages like the UK. Its not fun, but I have been shocked before and it is just a wake me up in the US. Now you can also argue that the 220 has the advantage of being more efficient (it loses less power over a length of wire compared to 115v), but it is also much more dangerous.

It is scary to be an electrician or work with electricity in the UK and Europe as one wrong move and you could die...115 is much safer from that regard. That is also why the outlets are more secure in the UK, one wrong move and you are dead there!
Click to expand...

I got an electrical shock in the UK and I survived. Had a hard time letting go of the chandelier at first but I finally did and was ok after. Interesting experience. Much worse shock than when we used to touch a blade of grass to the electric fence on the farm in Canada for kicks when I was a kid. :)
 
Off topic but on a related note. You guys think having higher voltage in the UK gives audio better sound quality than what we get in NA? Some audio nuts think even the quality of a fuse makes a difference to sound quality.
 
Neither 115V nor 230V is safe....
As an electrician ( in Belgium...that Euro's Mainland :p ) we have seen consequences of both failing..

Say you have a 1kW device...
( This is the very LONG way :D )
P ( power dissipation )= U ( Voltage ) x I ( Current )
Looking for the current, we get these two together which makes:
I = P / U => 1000 / 115 = 8,696 A ( Amps )
I = P / U => 1000 / 220 = 4.545 A ( Amps )

The Law of Youle says, the more current, the more heat dissipation.
That double for UK/US...
So while EU / Asia ( I think ) have more chances of heart failures ( Voltage ),
UK / US will have more chances of inner body burn wounds and fire hazards ( Current ).

Also, bad installations is something you'll find all over the world.
Let an electrician do it, don't do it yourself. ( except when you know 100% sure you have the knowledge )
EU power outlets have child locks ( EU Law from the 80's ) You shouldn't be able to find any EU power outlet without it, nor without a "earth" - connection.
Which means you'll have to push something in both holes at the same time with the same force to open up the child lock.

And to the OP: not all Banana plugs are forbidden, but the most known types are...that's because you could touch the bare copper/ metal of it when plugged in thus they're not safe. Even in Labs they're forbidden, though that's a place peeps know what they're doing.

Which banana plugs are legal? those who have a plastic protection tube around the electrified parts. That tube will retract when plugged in. Look for EU electric stamps on it.
( I've forgotten about them.. I only remember the stamp for the Netherlands, that's ' KEMAKEUR '
( CE is another stamp, means safe for every day use, but NOT tested for electric purpose )

Hope this clears up things :)
 
Lots of misinformed people in this thread...

Ok, the reason EU 220v is more dangerous goes like this: Let us say that the human body has natural conductivity whose resistance is 10k ohms. This is a worst case scenario, I measured the resistance between two spots on my tongue, this is the least resistive place I could find without jamming the probes into my skin.

V=IR so
220 volts=10,000 ohms x 22 milliamp
110 volts=10,000 ohms x 11 milliamp

As you can see, with 220v there is twice the current running through your body. The greater the voltage, the greater chance of the delivery of a fatal electric shock.
 
this has to be the strangest thread i have read in a while lol

i have some bananna type plugs for my multimeters that have a plastic tube around them so you cant touch the banna plug itself... but i dont see why audio cables would require that... i mean seriously, does your amp have that much output? :eek:

and i thought we had too many warning signs on everything over here lol
 
Kinda stupid to ban banana plugs just because some clown plugged it into an outlet. Why not call this Darwinism and call it a day? Seriously? What next? Ban anything that can fit in an outlet?

As for the 220v and 110v comments, 220v is a lot more dangerous to work with in general, the disadvantage of 110v is obviously the need for larger gauge conductors, which can amplify the cost significantly.... especially in todays copper market.


Everything should be 600v standard, it will really keep our population under control, keep the bad genes out of the pool, and simplify life for a lot of us :D jk!
 
mm I seemed to be confused we were talking about the current running trough an installation rather than trough a body by electrification .
I've forgotten about the fact that most equipment are made for a specific voltage and are not interchangeable. For example a lightbulb is made for 115 V OR 230 V.
( not talking about electronics which would have a switch in their feed.
My excuses, though my point still stands... an UK/US installation is more likely to burn than an EU installation.

Perhaps they should up the frequency a lot more so the current doesn't run "under" the skin but rather "above " xD

and FLECOM, your amp doesn't have that much output, no :) It's only a shared connection type..not the same current running through ( variable and not high-powered. )
That's why you use normal banana plugs for audio / low power outlets and the legal ones for high power outlets and labs.

Oh and btw... your multimeter plugs can ONLY be used for measurement purposes.
Don't try to run high currents trough it! they might ' seem' safe because of the plastic tube but they're in the best case made from silicone-rubber or lower quality isolation. Heat it up and it'll melt.
 
milkweg said:
You guys think having higher voltage in the UK gives audio better sound quality than what we get in NA?
Click to expand...
No, I wouldn't believe so. The ideal power supply is one that delivers perfectly 'clean' and stable power, not one that necessarily delivers a lot of voltage. Then again, I know about as much about electricity in general as I do women's underwear (the bra goes around the waist, right?)

That being said, if the Euro 220V grid delivers cleaner, more stable power than the U.S. 110V grid, then it may have a massively subtle effect on analog audio devices. Emphasis there on massively and subtle.
 
Lone_Bullet.be said:
Oh and btw... your multimeter plugs can ONLY be used for measurement purposes.
Don't try to run high currents trough it! they might ' seem' safe because of the plastic tube but they're in the best case made from silicone-rubber or lower quality isolation. Heat it up and it'll melt.
Click to expand...

you would think with what fluke charges for a replacement set of probes they would be teflon :cool:
 
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