Hi all,
As its been incredibly helpful in the past, I thought I would post here and see if I could get some opinions on an upgrade I am planning for my WHS based storage server. Ive done a ton of reading on this forum to try to gather information and Ive developed a number of questions (thanks specifically to Odditory, BENN0, and many others in the SAS Expanders/Areca threads for all the amazing posts). First I will lay out loosely what I have setup now and then I will explain what I would like to do. Please let me know if I need to include additional information and I would be happy to fill in details as best I can.
So, without further ado, my setup now is more or less:
I have read the threads about the HP 24-Port SAS Expander and the Areca cards and have gone back and forth about RAID card choices a million times. Im concerned that ANY of the RAID cards/expander will work with my motherboard or if they will work with each other or with my drives. People vacillate all over the place in the thread about which cards are good and which are not (in terms of both compatibility and performance). So, in all of your expert opinions, given that I dont currently have a RAID card and am not married to 1 in particular, whats my best bet given the requirements I outlined? Feel free to suggest something that I dont outline below. I feel a lot of people were just trying to see if the RAID card they already HAD worked or not and as I dont currently have one Id like to know what my best bet might be (given some of my parameters).
I was really tempted by the HP P212 or HP P400 series RAID cards as their prices are absolutely fantastic online via e-bay or amazon resellers for what is a fairly recent, modern card ($270 or so). In fact I was certain I was going to go with this card until I did some additional thread reading. I was gravely concerned by forum goers saying that the rebuild performance was atrocious (5-6 days) and that motherboard compatibility could be a nightmare. It also sounds like the HP RAID management utility isnt very good. It would be a bonus that I could use it to flash the SAS expander firmware though which I suppose is nice.
Again I also was tempted by the Areca series but its hard to discern which card actually works properly with the SAS expander and plus most of the Areca cards that people seemed to like/be interested in are more in the $600-$1,000 range (IE recent cards) and include many more ports than I think that I need. It also sounds like certain Areca cards might have severe performance issues (1680) with multiple RAID5 arrays (which was my plan) and spotty compatibility with the consumer drives we are all using. On the plus side it sounds like they at least have decent support.
The only other card I have really considered so far is the Dell PERC 6/E as it sounds like it might fit my price requirements but again I am slightly concerned about its motherboard/SAS expander/drive compatibility (not sure what the rebuild performance is like either). It sounds like it does have better motherboard compatibility than the HPs but I have no idea what the performance is like. I do have some experience with Dell RAID cards from work (all we deploy is Dell servers) and I suppose I am reasonably happy with the BIOS RAID configuration/OSMA web management but I dont think its great. Frankly, I can barely name on 1 hand web based management GUIs that I am truly happy with but thats another story.
Has anyone tried anything similar with a motherboard like mine? Do I need to purchase some other motherboard processor/combination that is more raid card/expander friendly? I would REALLY rather not do this as that pretty much turns the upgrade into a complete rebuild, thus sort of nullifying the point. But if thats really the best/only way to go Id rather hear it before I start (even if its not what I want to hear!).
Do I need to NOT use some of my drives and purchase more new 2TB drives (Hitachi?)? I would prefer NOT to have to replace all the drives (IE the 1.5TB drives), but if I have to I have to ensure that the entire project isnt some kind of nightmare. It sounds like (if I have read correctly) that I might have to use a utility to disable TLER on the 1TB WD10EACS drives and potentially update the firmware on my ST31500341AS Hitachi drives to prevent freezing in raid (which affects certain firmware revisions).
Should I go for RAID6 (Im worried about performance issues) or just do RAID5 with a hot spare? Im also of the mindset that even RAID6/RAID5 + hot spare is a bit overkill given that I do have backup drives; its not like I am in a high uptime environment in my home. The only main/real reason for wanting a hotspare or RAID6 is that it sounds like depending on controller choice etc I could be looking at some extremely long rebuild times based on array sizes.
A final question/option that I havent even REALLY considered is, not purchasing a RAID controller card or expander at all (sticking with the MV8s/motherboard) and simply going for software RAID5 arrays in 08 R2 to present to Vali (I could in theory use the expanders with the MV8s as well and stop using the motherboard ports too). What will the performance be like here, atrocious? Would rebuild times be abysmal? Will a faster/additional core processor (IE 6 core proc) improve general RAID and rebuild performance significantly? It sounds like this might be the simplest/cheapest solution that would avoid some of the SAS expander/RAID card/motherboard compatibility issues but performance is a concern based on what I have read about software RAID (I know there have to be reasons why people avoid it). Pretty much no one around here discusses it and I assume that there are multiple good reasons for that
Thanks to anyone who fully read the above post, I am sure it was a bit to slog through and I know I have a ton of questions in there. I tried to read as many relevant posts as possible (those 45 pager threads are a long haul) but I think I only generated MORE questions after reading! Its a great community around here with a lot of great information for a tech enthusiast on a budget like me (treadstone makes me jealous)! I really appreciate the time and your feedback would highly valued! Let me know if I need to include more detail and I will try to do so!
As its been incredibly helpful in the past, I thought I would post here and see if I could get some opinions on an upgrade I am planning for my WHS based storage server. Ive done a ton of reading on this forum to try to gather information and Ive developed a number of questions (thanks specifically to Odditory, BENN0, and many others in the SAS Expanders/Areca threads for all the amazing posts). First I will lay out loosely what I have setup now and then I will explain what I would like to do. Please let me know if I need to include additional information and I would be happy to fill in details as best I can.
So, without further ado, my setup now is more or less:
- OS: WHS Duplication enabled on ALL the shares
- Case: - Norco 4020
- AMD Athlon 64 X2 5050e Brisbane 2.6GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 45W Dual-Core Processor
- 4GB of RAM (could be bumped to 8GB)
- Hard drives in the server:
- 1x Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (OS drive)
- 6x 1.5TB Seagate drives (ST31500341AS)
- I would need to look up firmware versions on each but I know that as I purchased them I made sure to use the Seagate firmware checker to see if they had a firmware update available (none did but that's not to say that they might not have updated firmware available)
- 4x 1TB Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EACS
- 2x HITACHI Deskstar 7K2000 HDS722020ALA330 (0F10311) 2TB 7200 RPM
- Random assortment of drives in 2 external 5-bay E-SATA enclosures
- 1x HITACHI Deskstar HDS722020ALA330 2TB 7200 RPM drive
- 1x SAMSUNG HD203WI 2TB 5400 RPM drive
- 4x SAMSUNG HD154UI 1.5TB drives
- 10TB total space to backup the 7TB of data I currently have
- ASUS M3N-HT Deluxe/HDMI AM2+/AM2 NVIDIA nForce 780a SLI HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard
- 3 x PCI Express x16 (dual x16 or triple x8) (2 in use by the AOC-SASLP-MV8 cards)
- 1 x PCI E x1 (this has something in it currently)
- AOC-SASLP-MV8 x2
- The Norco backplane is connected via onboard motherboard ports and the AOC-SASLP-MV8s to support all 20 hot swap drive bays
- Purchase 1x 2TB HITACHI Deskstar HD32000 IDK/7K (0S00164) 2TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb for the storage pool and probably continue to purchase more of these drives as I expand the storage pool
- Purchase and upgrade the processor (1 of the 2 listed, I am leaning toward the X4 for lower power usage)
- Purchase an HP 24 Port SAS Expander so that I can get rid of the AOC-SASLP-MV8s and stop using onboard SATA ports connected to the backplane
- I have concerns if this expander will work with my motherboard
- Purchase a hardware RAID controller that works with the HP 24 Port SAS Expander, connect it to the expander internally and then connect the internal expander ports to the Noroco backplane
- As I am using the expander I dont want/need an expensive RAID card with many ports
- I would prefer that the RAID card has reasonable rebuild performance (24 hours would be nice instead of 4-5 days)
- I dont want to spend much more than $350 if possible, I am happy to deal hunt on E-Bay if there are good deals to be had on the right part. Id like to buy new but I really dont want to spend $600 to $1000 on a RAID card for performance I dont really need. I am streaming 1080p files (1 at a time generally), not running DB or web servers.
- So far I have considered Areca 1680 series cards, HP P212, HP P410/411 and Dell PERC 6/E cards but I cant decide (more on this below)
- Wipe the my current WHS install and install Server 2008 R2 with Hyper V on the 640GB drive
- Licensing isnt a concern here, I have a 08 R2 license
- Use the 640GB drive as the OS drive and to hold the Vali VM
- Setup multiple RAID 5 volumes within 08 R2 and then present these to the Vali VM for the storage pool, NO duplication enabled in Vali
- RAID5 #1 6x1.5TB drives
- RAID 5 #2 4x1TB drives
- RAID 5 #3 3x2TB drives (this array would get more drives added to it as time went on)
- I am not sure if it is worth going for hot spares or RAID6, more on this below
I have read the threads about the HP 24-Port SAS Expander and the Areca cards and have gone back and forth about RAID card choices a million times. Im concerned that ANY of the RAID cards/expander will work with my motherboard or if they will work with each other or with my drives. People vacillate all over the place in the thread about which cards are good and which are not (in terms of both compatibility and performance). So, in all of your expert opinions, given that I dont currently have a RAID card and am not married to 1 in particular, whats my best bet given the requirements I outlined? Feel free to suggest something that I dont outline below. I feel a lot of people were just trying to see if the RAID card they already HAD worked or not and as I dont currently have one Id like to know what my best bet might be (given some of my parameters).
I was really tempted by the HP P212 or HP P400 series RAID cards as their prices are absolutely fantastic online via e-bay or amazon resellers for what is a fairly recent, modern card ($270 or so). In fact I was certain I was going to go with this card until I did some additional thread reading. I was gravely concerned by forum goers saying that the rebuild performance was atrocious (5-6 days) and that motherboard compatibility could be a nightmare. It also sounds like the HP RAID management utility isnt very good. It would be a bonus that I could use it to flash the SAS expander firmware though which I suppose is nice.
Again I also was tempted by the Areca series but its hard to discern which card actually works properly with the SAS expander and plus most of the Areca cards that people seemed to like/be interested in are more in the $600-$1,000 range (IE recent cards) and include many more ports than I think that I need. It also sounds like certain Areca cards might have severe performance issues (1680) with multiple RAID5 arrays (which was my plan) and spotty compatibility with the consumer drives we are all using. On the plus side it sounds like they at least have decent support.
The only other card I have really considered so far is the Dell PERC 6/E as it sounds like it might fit my price requirements but again I am slightly concerned about its motherboard/SAS expander/drive compatibility (not sure what the rebuild performance is like either). It sounds like it does have better motherboard compatibility than the HPs but I have no idea what the performance is like. I do have some experience with Dell RAID cards from work (all we deploy is Dell servers) and I suppose I am reasonably happy with the BIOS RAID configuration/OSMA web management but I dont think its great. Frankly, I can barely name on 1 hand web based management GUIs that I am truly happy with but thats another story.
Has anyone tried anything similar with a motherboard like mine? Do I need to purchase some other motherboard processor/combination that is more raid card/expander friendly? I would REALLY rather not do this as that pretty much turns the upgrade into a complete rebuild, thus sort of nullifying the point. But if thats really the best/only way to go Id rather hear it before I start (even if its not what I want to hear!).
Do I need to NOT use some of my drives and purchase more new 2TB drives (Hitachi?)? I would prefer NOT to have to replace all the drives (IE the 1.5TB drives), but if I have to I have to ensure that the entire project isnt some kind of nightmare. It sounds like (if I have read correctly) that I might have to use a utility to disable TLER on the 1TB WD10EACS drives and potentially update the firmware on my ST31500341AS Hitachi drives to prevent freezing in raid (which affects certain firmware revisions).
Should I go for RAID6 (Im worried about performance issues) or just do RAID5 with a hot spare? Im also of the mindset that even RAID6/RAID5 + hot spare is a bit overkill given that I do have backup drives; its not like I am in a high uptime environment in my home. The only main/real reason for wanting a hotspare or RAID6 is that it sounds like depending on controller choice etc I could be looking at some extremely long rebuild times based on array sizes.
A final question/option that I havent even REALLY considered is, not purchasing a RAID controller card or expander at all (sticking with the MV8s/motherboard) and simply going for software RAID5 arrays in 08 R2 to present to Vali (I could in theory use the expanders with the MV8s as well and stop using the motherboard ports too). What will the performance be like here, atrocious? Would rebuild times be abysmal? Will a faster/additional core processor (IE 6 core proc) improve general RAID and rebuild performance significantly? It sounds like this might be the simplest/cheapest solution that would avoid some of the SAS expander/RAID card/motherboard compatibility issues but performance is a concern based on what I have read about software RAID (I know there have to be reasons why people avoid it). Pretty much no one around here discusses it and I assume that there are multiple good reasons for that
Thanks to anyone who fully read the above post, I am sure it was a bit to slog through and I know I have a ton of questions in there. I tried to read as many relevant posts as possible (those 45 pager threads are a long haul) but I think I only generated MORE questions after reading! Its a great community around here with a lot of great information for a tech enthusiast on a budget like me (treadstone makes me jealous)! I really appreciate the time and your feedback would highly valued! Let me know if I need to include more detail and I will try to do so!
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