WHS - Duplication/Offsite questions

AGampher

Weaksauce
Joined
Aug 20, 2003
Messages
109
Hello,

I am looking at WHS and find the features appealing. I was wondering if someone could answer a couple of questions for me:

Imagine I have 3 equally sized drives, two of which are in the WHS. The third drive is offsite.

Will WHS:
1. Allow me to automatically duplicate data from one of the two drives to the other (allowing for local drive failure)? In this case, how much true storage space will I have, exactly half of total?
2. Allow me to swap one of the WHS drives for the offsite one, automatically updating the offsite drive to the current data?
3. Allow me to hot-swap drives?

Thanks!
 
1. WHS allows you to turn on duplication for each share. Lets say you have a Photos sections and a Video section. The photos are unique and important to duplicate but the videos are not, turn it only only for Photos and save the space from not duplicating the videos. WHS has several built in shares that you can control the duplication on, and you can add more folders to manage duplication. In the above example you'll have 3/4ths of your total storage instead of just half.

2. Instead of swapping the drives WHS, since PP1, allows you to connect the drive and add it as an external backup drive instead of adding it to the array. Connect the external drive and only backup what you want from your WHS, for me I don't bother backing up my videos and software to my external backup, only music, photos and user folders.

3. You can hot swap but it's not a fast procedure. You don't have to shut the machine down but you do have to remove the drive from the array if you're permanently removing it. Otherwise hot swapping is based on the interface you're using; eSATA or USB.

Does this help?
 
1. WHS allows you to turn on duplication for each share. Lets say you have a Photos sections and a Video section. The photos are unique and important to duplicate but the videos are not, turn it only only for Photos and save the space from not duplicating the videos. WHS has several built in shares that you can control the duplication on, and you can add more folders to manage duplication. In the above example you'll have 3/4ths of your total storage instead of just half.

2. Instead of swapping the drives WHS, since PP1, allows you to connect the drive and add it as an external backup drive instead of adding it to the array. Connect the external drive and only backup what you want from your WHS, for me I don't bother backing up my videos and software to my external backup, only music, photos and user folders.

3. You can hot swap but it's not a fast procedure. You don't have to shut the machine down but you do have to remove the drive from the array if you're permanently removing it. Otherwise hot swapping is based on the interface you're using; eSATA or USB.

Does this help?

It does, thanks.

Since the drives are all part of the "pool," when choosing which share to duplicate will WHS duplicate those files to the other physical drive without any intervention on my part?

When connecting the external backup drive, will it run a predetermined backup "job" or is that a manual backup process each time?

Thanks again.
 
Since the drives are all part of the "pool," when choosing which share to duplicate will WHS duplicate those files to the other physical drive without any intervention on my part?

.

Yes you just turn it on and it does the rest.
 
Thread resurrection time!

I have similar questions and it seems this thread is on the right track but not quite there just yet. Would anyone that has WHS experience mind answering these questions for us?

1. How does the data duplication work? If I had two 1TB drives in the pool and turned on data duplication for all files, does WHS just mirror the files onto both drives much like RAID1?

2. Assuming data duplication did work like above, how would it work if you had three 1TB drives? Would WHS make all 3 drives identical then?

3. If you had a mix of drives, say 1x 80gb, 2x 250gb, 2x 500gb and 1x 1TB... how does WHS decide which drives store the files? I'm still a little confused on how it handles and prioritizes that kind of stuff. Anyone have any good articles I can read that would explain all this?

4. If you had a couple hot swappable drive bays and wanted to pull a drive once a month to keep it offsite in case of fire, etc, how would this work with WHS? Ideally I'd have 3x 1TB drives... two which always stay in the system and just mirror each other until I hot swap one out monthly. Is this possible with WHS? Would the drive I was pulling out of the system each month be entirely up to date and contain all data? Would the drive that I was putting back in the system each month automatically be rebuilt with the latest data or would that need to be done manually each time?

Thanks for all the help. I'm really looking forward to getting WHS setup so I can finally play around with it :)
 
Thread resurrection time!

I have similar questions and it seems this thread is on the right track but not quite there just yet. Would anyone that has WHS experience mind answering these questions for us?

1. How does the data duplication work? If I had two 1TB drives in the pool and turned on data duplication for all files, does WHS just mirror the files onto both drives much like RAID1?
It won't duplicate the entire drive, but it will put a duplicate copy of the file on a second HD in the pool if a folder is flagged for it. It's a selective mirroring of sorts.

2. Assuming data duplication did work like above, how would it work if you had three 1TB drives? Would WHS make all 3 drives identical then?
It doesn't mirror. It simply spreads data, and often not evenly, across the drives in the pool. If a folder is set to duplicate, it simply makes sure there is a copy of that data on two drives, not all drives.

3. If you had a mix of drives, say 1x 80gb, 2x 250gb, 2x 500gb and 1x 1TB... how does WHS decide which drives store the files? I'm still a little confused on how it handles and prioritizes that kind of stuff. Anyone have any good articles I can read that would explain all this?
I don't know the "selection process" but WHS will just use that as a single pool of 2.58TB and distribute data accross them as it sees fit.

For example, I have an HP EX470 with the original 500GB drive, two 1TB drives and a single 1.5TB drive. The 1.5 TB drive is about 50% full and the two 1TB drives are 33 and 46% full. That is a current split up of 14% for Shared Folders, 14% for Duplication, 14% for PC backups with the remainding 55% being free space.

4. If you had a couple hot swappable drive bays and wanted to pull a drive once a month to keep it offsite in case of fire, etc, how would this work with WHS? Ideally I'd have 3x 1TB drives... two which always stay in the system and just mirror each other until I hot swap one out monthly. Is this possible with WHS? Would the drive I was pulling out of the system each month be entirely up to date and contain all data? Would the drive that I was putting back in the system each month automatically be rebuilt with the latest data or would that need to be done manually each time?
I'm not sure if a hotswappable drive can be used as "backup" but I'm not sure it can't either. What I do is have an external USB drive and attach it as a backup drive. you would then use the backup tool to back up your data to the external drive.

Alternitively, You can use a 3rd party plugin that will back up to Mozy or Jungledisk, but these can get costly.

Thanks for all the help. I'm really looking forward to getting WHS setup so I can finally play around with it :)
There is no doubt that you can't get some of the same features that a corporate solution would get you, but for the home WHS is awesome IMHO. I use it all the time. In fact, I'm logged into my home PC as I type this through the WHS remote connection feature. I have used the back ups to recover data and systems a few times now. I use the shared folders all the time.

Currently, my "back up" strategy is:
All PC's backup to the WHS nightly.
I use Synctoy 2 to replicate all my files to my Home Server nightly.
I also use Carbonite (not on the WHS, because it doesn't work with it... yet.... hopefully one day) to back up my Data to the cloud.

So, I have local reliable, backups of files and systems for bare metal recovery if needed, and I still have all my critical data, MP3's and Video files always backed up to the Cloud incase the worse should happen.
 
It won't duplicate the entire drive, but it will put a duplicate copy of the file on a second HD in the pool if a folder is flagged for it. It's a selective mirroring of sorts.

Ahh ok. So regarding the hotswap scenario with 3x 1TB drives where two always in the system with duplicate copies of selected data and one used for offsite monthly backup.... I wonder what would happen when you swapped one of the drives. It would be cool if WHS would recognize that the data was no longer there and just update the newly inserted drive with the updated data. But whats to say that it wouldn't think the newly inserted drive contained the more current data and then overwrote the drive that contained the true current data?

It doesn't mirror. It simply spreads data, and often not evenly, across the drives in the pool. If a folder is set to duplicate, it simply makes sure there is a copy of that data on two drives, not all drives.

I don't know the "selection process" but WHS will just use that as a single pool of 2.58TB and distribute data accross them as it sees fit.

For example, I have an HP EX470 with the original 500GB drive, two 1TB drives and a single 1.5TB drive. The 1.5 TB drive is about 50% full and the two 1TB drives are 33 and 46% full. That is a current split up of 14% for Shared Folders, 14% for Duplication, 14% for PC backups with the remainding 55% being free space.

Ok that's making more sense to me now... thanks! So say one of your 1TB drives died... would you have lost any data? (assuming you didn't have your Carbonite backups, etc)

I'm not sure if a hotswappable drive can be used as "backup" but I'm not sure it can't either. What I do is have an external USB drive and attach it as a backup drive. you would then use the backup tool to back up your data to the external drive.

Alternitively, You can use a 3rd party plugin that will back up to Mozy or Jungledisk, but these can get costly.

There is no doubt that you can't get some of the same features that a corporate solution would get you, but for the home WHS is awesome IMHO. I use it all the time. In fact, I'm logged into my home PC as I type this through the WHS remote connection feature. I have used the back ups to recover data and systems a few times now. I use the shared folders all the time.

In regards to the external backup tool, does it let you automate the backup task or is it manual? Maybe this is somewhat of a solution to the hotswap idea... I'll just plug in a good sized drive, back everything up to it manually, then pull it and store it away until the next month.

Currently, my "back up" strategy is:
All PC's backup to the WHS nightly.
I use Synctoy 2 to replicate all my files to my Home Server nightly.
I also use Carbonite (not on the WHS, because it doesn't work with it... yet.... hopefully one day) to back up my Data to the cloud.

So, I have local reliable, backups of files and systems for bare metal recovery if needed, and I still have all my critical data, MP3's and Video files always backed up to the Cloud incase the worse should happen.

So WHS has its own client that you install to your PC's to back them up nightly? Then you use Synctoy 2 to keep your music, video, etc shares up to date?

I suppose using Carbonite or any other online backup would be a nice alternative to manual offsite backup. Does it seem pretty smart about not re-uploading files that haven't changed since your last upload?

Anyways, thanks so much for all the insightful answers. You've been very helpful and I really appreciate it :)
 
Ahh ok. So regarding the hotswap scenario with 3x 1TB drives where two always in the system with duplicate copies of selected data and one used for offsite monthly backup.... I wonder what would happen when you swapped one of the drives. It would be cool if WHS would recognize that the data was no longer there and just update the newly inserted drive with the updated data. But whats to say that it wouldn't think the newly inserted drive contained the more current data and then overwrote the drive that contained the true current data?
To remove a drive from the pool, you use the UI and tell WHS to remove the drive from the pool. WHS will then redistribute all the data on that drive to others. Once this is done then you can hotswap the drive out.

Ok that's making more sense to me now... thanks! So say one of your 1TB drives died... would you have lost any data? (assuming you didn't have your Carbonite backups, etc)
My understanding is that if a drive fails, any data that's not set to duplicate will be lost, but anything that is will still be there.

In regards to the external backup tool, does it let you automate the backup task or is it manual? Maybe this is somewhat of a solution to the hotswap idea... I'll just plug in a good sized drive, back everything up to it manually, then pull it and store it away until the next month.
You can set these backups to automatic, yes.


So WHS has its own client that you install to your PC's to back them up nightly? Then you use Synctoy 2 to keep your music, video, etc shares up to date?
You install the WHS connect software on any guest PC. It's a very lightweight client. It takes up about 3.5MB of memory. You then set a backup window on the WHS and durring that window it will back up your system to the WHS. It will even wake your computer from sleep or hybernation to peform the backup. It will not automatically backup "recorded TV" files or temp files, but it will back up everything else.

If you ever need to do a bare metal recovery, you boot to a supplied CD and it will list every restore point you have on the server, allowing you to restore to the state it was in at that backup.

You can also use the WHS console to browse and restore individual files and folders if you need.

I use Synctoy 2 to keep all my data consistant on all my machines. I have scheduled tasks set up to replicate any changes I make to data folders on my primary PC to my WHS and Media Center PC.

I suppose using Carbonite or any other online backup would be a nice alternative to manual offsite backup. Does it seem pretty smart about not re-uploading files that haven't changed since your last upload?

It's smart about not re-uploading files. It's an app that runs in your system tray and only tries to upload changes. My only complaint about Carbonite is that I can't use it directly on my WHS. Ideally I want my WHS to handle all back up needs. There are some products like Mozy and Jungledisk that will work with WHS, but they are much more expensive than the $54 a year for Carbonite's unlimited backup storage.
Anyways, thanks so much for all the insightful answers. You've been very helpful and I really appreciate it :)
No Problem. I'm a big fan of WHS and glad to share my real world experiences with it.
 
griffinhart said:
No Problem. I'm a big fan of WHS and glad to share my real world experiences with it.

Perfect! Everything I needed... I think I have a much clearer understanding of it all now. So, once again thank you. Wish me luck! :)
 
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